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[deskmate]

Hi,

Under Genres view, MC can sort by "Artists > Album" OR "Artists > Album" but in different levels.

However if I want to sort by "Artists > Album" on the same level, how can I keep everything on the top level?

Thanks,

DM

[minolotus]

I wonder if there is a bug. If you set as category [album] and set as modification rules sort by [artist], [album], the file display rules show no effect. The sorting rules under in the category are not overwritten?

[minolotus]

I just discovered that this behaviour is similar to the standard view with a category view: The modification rules (sort by) have not impact  ?

Further I tried to set up the category in the theatre view with an expression including "~sort=" but the sort parameter is not recognised.

[rick.ca]

Sorting rules applied to categories will only sort the category values themselves. There are two ways they could be sorted differently...

• Use an expression to change the category to the form in which you would like it sorted. For example, I like albums (of one artist) to be sorted by release date, so I use the expression "[Released] [Album]" rather than the field [Album]. This, of course, actually changes the names of the categories...
  
  
• If I didn't want to do that, I would create a sorting Preset in Standard View (e.g., [Released]) and apply it to the field category (e.g., [Album]).

[minolotus]

Use an expression to change the category to the form in which you would like it sorted. For example, I like albums (of one artist) to be sorted by release date, so I use the expression "[Released] [Album]" rather than the field [Album]. This, of course, actually changes the names of the categories...

Thanks for your input. I did not see this most obvious solution 

@ deskmate: Just make sure that you use [Album Artist (auto)] [album] and not [artist] [album]. As an album may contain several artists the latter expression would give you a view with all separate files. The former expression leads to a view with all albums sorted in the favour order.

[wer]

Creating an expression is good, if you want to see your artist names prepended to the album titles.

You can also do it without expressions.  Just create a standard album view, and then under "Set rules for file display" add the following Sort By modifiers in order:
Album Artist (a-z)
Date (a-z)  {if you, as I do, like albums in release order}
Track # (a-z)

This gives you all your albums, sorted by artist, on one level with nothing showing but album names.

[minolotus]

This gives you all your albums, sorted by artist, on one level with nothing showing but album names.

I don't think so. As rick.ca already pointed out:

Sorting rules applied to categories will only sort the category values themselves.

[wer]

Sorry, but in 16.0.105, it does.  I'm doing it.

[rick.ca]

Sorry, but in 16.0.105, it does.  I'm doing it.

Maybe you could explain what the "it" is you're doing. My navigation categories obey the sort rules assigned to them (in Category > Settings), and my files obey the sort rules applied to them (in Rules for file display). The two seem to be completely independent—exactly as I would expect. So I have no idea what you mean by...

This gives you all your albums, sorted by artist, on one level with nothing showing but album names.

[wer]

Something interesting is going on here...

"It" means what we were talking about.  I created a theater-mode view as I described in my post above.  It shows all albums, on a single level, sorted first by AlbumArtist, then by release date. The caption for each item is the Album Name only.  Clicking on an album then drills down in to the tracklist for that album.

Here are the screenshots for how the views and sorting are configured:






And here's the result:


Note that AC/DC comes before Aerosmith, but Highway to Hell comes before Back in Black.  Sorted by AlbumArtist, then Date.

The interesting thing is that in going through the exercise of creating the screenshots for you, I found that I could not reproduce it again.  The key seems to be that in the view creation, the "Sorting" selection is EMPTY.  (see pic)  This view was originally created in MC 16.0.87.  Now in 16.0.105, there does not seem to be any way to leave this unspecified.  MC now insists on applying a sorting selection, and then that sorting selection overrides what I specified in the file display rules.  When this field is blank as shown, it allows my sorting rules to be applied.

The current build seems to be enforcing the behavior you mentioned, but I was able to create this view in the previous version, and the view still works.

Was this a feature?  A bug?  Is there some tricky clicking necessary to deselect the sorting option that I can't remember?  It would be nice if we could get this back (are you listening Matt? ) so that other people could create views like this.

[rick.ca]

Was this a feature?  A bug?

I don't know. I've never noticed the behaviour before, but then it's not something I would have expected (because categories have their own sort setting)—so I've probably never tried it in the past.

Out of curiosity—is this a view you actually use? Although I do relate more to albums than individual tracks, I would still find it difficult to work with a list of albums grouped by artist, but without the artist being named anywhere and not being able to select by artist.

[wer]

Yes, I use it all the time.

I of course also have a separate view with Artist as part of the hierarchy so I can search by artist if I want.

I like the utility of this view of having a flat list of albums (like the standard album view) with all the albums by the same artist next to each other.  All my Beatles albums are together in the list instead of being strewn all over.  I had tried it the way you do it previously, with the expression to add the name of the artist, but I found that it was both visually cluttered, as well as making many of the captions too long so they get truncated.

I find this cleaner, and as soon as I see the album name I know the artist anyway, so I don't miss the artist name.  This is just a different way to browse albums.  After all, JRiver's all about presenting our music the way we want, right? 

[rick.ca]

Have you tried the second method I suggested?

[deskmate]

Hi guys, you have lost me here ...

Any easy ways of creating the following:

Slow ALL the Albums of a Genre (not all Genres) on a screen and sort by Artists and NOT by Album name?

Thanks,

DM

[minolotus]

Any easy ways of creating the following:

Slow ALL the Albums of a Genre (not all Genres) on a screen and sort by Artists and NOT by Album name?

Here it goes:
-Select the root library item "music" and add (with the button in the middle) a library item. You could adjust the name of the library item on the right.
-Add (with the button on the right) a category and select as content the library field "genre"
-Add a second category and set the type as expression. Then add in the expression field the library fields: [Album Artist (auto)] [album].

[minolotus]

Have you tried the second method I suggested?

Maybe this was exactly what wer has done when setting up his/her view? (@wer: no offense intended) I think MC is a little confusing in this point. If you build a library item from a standard view which includes sorting rules, you could thereafter not ascertain what kind of sorting rules are applied. The only clue which I found is the empty sorting field in the category form (similar to the screen shot by wer).

[rick.ca]

If you build a library item from a standard view which includes sorting rules, you could thereafter not ascertain what kind of sorting rules are applied.

Adding a Library item from Standard View is not the method I suggested. I don't recommend this in any circumstances. These are some kind of static representation of the corresponding Standard View view. They do not dynamically update or behave the same as a view created directly in Theatre View. What I suggested was...

...I would create a sorting Preset in Standard View (e.g., [Released]) and apply it to the field category (e.g., [Album]).

So, for example...

In other words, you want to display [Artist] (in some cases), but maintain a sort by [Album Artist]. You've probably noticed you can select a sort setting for Categories (in this case, "Expression 2"), but "Album Artist" does not appear in the drop-down list. That drop-down list, however, will include any sort presets you have created in Standard View. So, in Standard View, from the tab menu, select Sort inside groups by...Custom... and create a preset for [Album Artist]. Then return to the Theatre View configuration and assign that preset as the sort setting for your "Expression 2" Category.

[wer]

Good thinking, minolotus!

That must have been what I did.  (Although my clicks were a little different.)  But I tried the "create a standard view first" method and it exactly replicates my previous results.

Originally after creating the standard view and then the theater view based on it, I must have then deleted the standard view to save clutter and further confound myself!

Rick is quite correct that when a theater view is created in this way, the theater view is somewhat "static".  It does not update when the standard view it was based on is modified (contents update of course).  It also survives deletion of the standard view.  It looks like the view definition is initially copied (once) into the theater-mode view definitions when you create it, and thereafter can only be modified using the theater-mode options dialog.

Rick is far more knowledgeable than I am about MC and so probably has additional reasons why this is a bad approach, but I quite like it as it gives a flexibility in creating certain types of views that the interface for theater-mode views doesn't allow (like mine we've been discussing.)  I imagine that's why this functionality was provided in the first place.

I'm embarassed I did this thing and forgot how I'd done it, but it's nice the mystery is solved.  Hopefully all this has also helped deskmate with his original question.

[rick.ca]

Rick is far more knowledgeable than I am about MC and so probably has additional reasons why this is a bad approach

Yes. The main one is...

...and thereafter can only be modified using the theater-mode options dialog.

...this is untrue. Don't ask me to explain why—I have no way of knowing exactly what it does. But you've discovered the kind of problem that will occur when you use this feature and then assume the result is exactly the same as a view you create yourself. It isn't. I believe Matt's last comment on the matter was that maybe the feature should just be removed. That suggests to me it was never intended to be something that would create a functional clone of a Standard view. You're not the first one to fall into this trap, and you certainly won't be the last. Maybe the benefit of the feature does not outweigh the cost of the confusion it creates.

I believe that if some sorely need improvements were made to the Theatre View configuration system, no one would even think of using a feature like this. Theatre views are fundamentally different from Standard views, so it's not reasonable to expect there will ever be a practical way to clone one from the other. And there's not much point in doing so if a fully functional view is easy to create and maintain in Theatre View. If there is to be such a feature, I don't know why it shouldn't just be something that "pre-configures" a normal Theatre view that is on some reasonable basis "like" the selected Standard view. It would then behave exactly as you expected it should. If the result were not exactly what you wanted, you would simply revise the settings.

[wer]

Indeed, the view configuration for theater mode does need some significant enhancement.  But be that as it may, I hope they don't remove this functionality until the theater mode configuration is beefed up.  I'm satisfied that, if used carefully, it can lend to theater view useful functionality that is not otherwise readily available.

Removing "sometimes-confusing" features because they are made unnecessary by valuable improvements is a good thing.  I wouldn't say the same of removing useful functionality just to simplify, in the case of a product like MC.

[deskmate]

Here it goes:
-Select the root library item "music" and add (with the button in the middle) a library item. You could adjust the name of the library item on the right.
-Add (with the button on the right) a category and select as content the library field "genre"
-Add a second category and set the type as expression. Then add in the expression field the library fields: [Album Artist (auto)] [album].

>-Select the root library item "music"

Where is this?  I couldn't find it at all ...

[minolotus]

>-Select the root library item "music"

Where is this?  I couldn't find it at all ...

Sorry, that's name of my root item after I have renamed it. If I remember right, in the default seeting of MC the item is called "audio".

[minolotus]

Indeed, the view configuration for theater mode does need some significant enhancement.  But be that as it may, I hope they don't remove this functionality until the theater mode configuration is beefed up.  I'm satisfied that, if used carefully, it can lend to theater view useful functionality that is not otherwise readily available.

Removing "sometimes-confusing" features because they are made unnecessary by valuable improvements is a good thing.  I wouldn't say the same of removing useful functionality just to simplify, in the case of a product like MC.

I would be happy if they extend the sorting list in the category form by an "custom" item which leads to an subform similar to the form under "panes - sort inside groups by - custom".

[deskmate]

Sorry, that's name of my root item after I have renamed it. If I remember right, in the default seeting of MC the item is called "audio".

Worked, Thanks!

[deskmate]

Sorry, that's name of my root item after I have renamed it. If I remember right, in the default seeting of MC the item is called "audio".

Is it possible only showing the name of the album and not the artist? Right now it shows the Artist Name first, follow by the Album name.

[minolotus]

Is it possible only showing the name of the album and not the artist? Right now it shows the Artist Name first, follow by the Album name.

Yes, it is possible:

Here it goes:
-Select the root library item "music" and add (with the button in the middle) a library item. You could adjust the name of the library item on the right.
-Add (with the button on the right) a category and select as content the library field "genre"
-Add a second category and set the type as expression. Then add in the expression field the library fields: [Album Artist (auto)] [album].

Change the second category from an expression to an library field and select "album" as content.

If you would like to change the sorting order to artist > album, you should follow rick.ca instructions:

In other words, you want to display [Artist] (in some cases), but maintain a sort by [Album Artist]. You've probably noticed you can select a sort setting for Categories (in this case, "Expression 2"), but "Album Artist" does not appear in the drop-down list. That drop-down list, however, will include any sort presets you have created in Standard View. So, in Standard View, from the tab menu, select Sort inside groups by...Custom... and create a preset for [Album Artist]. Then return to the Theatre View configuration and assign that preset as the sort setting for your "Expression 2" Category.

[deskmate]

Yes, it is possible:

Change the second category from an expression to an library field and select "album" as content.

I tried this, this is will show the album name, BUT it won't sort by artist any more, so album from the same artist are NOT shown together.

I would like:

1. First sort by Genre

then after I click into a single Genre (e.g. Rock)
 
2. All the album are show on this level (no further sub level)

3. All albums by the same artist are shown together, e.g. all U2 album are shown side by side

4. Only the album name are shown, but not Artists.

How can I do this?

Thanks,

DM

P.S. I must add that for my all files, the field "Album Artist" is NOT empty.  Shall I left them empty instead?

[rick.ca]

How can I do this?

• As already mentioned several times, create a sorting Preset in Standard View.
• Create a Theatre View view with Categories [Genre] followed by [Album].
• Apply your preset as the sort setting to the [Album] Category.

To create a Preset in Standard View...

• Select Sort inside groups by > Custom from the tab drop-down menu.
• Add your desired sort criteria (e.g., [Artist] - [Year] - [Album]).
• Save the preset with an appropriate name.

If this is going to work the way you seem to expect it should, values of [Album] will have to be unique. Otherwise, for example, all "Greatest Hits" albums will be grouped together rather than by artist. If they're all named uniquely (e.g., "Greatest Hits of [Artist]"), this won't be a problem. It this isn't practical, create an expression field that will be unique (e.g., [Artist] - [Album]), and use it as the sort criteria instead of [Album].

2. All the album are show on this level (no further sub level)

You can't avoid having a final file list view after the last Category (in this case, [Album]). If you don't want to see it, however, just select an album and press <Play> to play it (and navigate to Playing Now).

[deskmate]

To create a Preset in Standard View...

• Select Sort inside groups by > Custom from the tab drop-down menu.

Where is this, I am unable to find it ...  ?

[rick.ca]

[deskmate]

Thanks for the screen shot ... finally it works ... what a long long road ...