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[mywhey]

hello all. ill make this as informative as i need to without going into too many particulars!

great program you've created first of all...

(problem)

the only beef i have is with my gtx 560 ti on htpc sending lossless audio to receiver and receiver output is lpcm. the track is definitely lossless...... within j river program using red October with additional filters selected i right click select stream selection it reads dts ma with a check mark next to it. this means according to my computer and player it is hd audio.

but according to my onkyo NR 1008 receiver it is lpcm. Ive selected sound properties changed within to 5.1 and under properties it is listed as being capable of decoding all audio formats i need. 16 bit and 24 bit. dts ma and true hd. my 560 ti is capable......according to j river i am playing it.......but receiver says no i want to recognize lpcm only.

(what Ive done on my own to fix my problem)

i had my system delivered 2 days ago and the owner of the stereo company said it is a setting somewhere within my computer that needs to be changed.....when i go into options in j river the video portion allows me to select spdif< hdmi< or none which is recommended. i select hdmi and i get error messages on all of my thx demo tracks that are loseless audio which are all m2ts tracks. i play non lossless audio tracks which are m2ts dd 5.1 and it goes into exclusive mode just fine and plays track. when i keep it on none which is recommended it works just fine....for all tracks and formats.

under audio it is listed as output mode ; direct  sound device
under output mode settings i have selected primary sound driver and default channels

I'm positive its not my receiver...it decodes it. and i had the ht professional in my home and he said it was good to go its an issue on my computer end of things. i call the man who built my computer he says its a setting within the video card. i call evga and they say its a setting on the receiver end of things.....i just get bounced around from person to person. none wishes to aggressively solve issue.

that's why i stepped up and made an account on this forum!!

i bid you all a good day kind sirs!



the error code i get is stream selection- oxffffffffffffd

[JimH]

Welcome to the forum.  You'll need to tell MC to "bitstream" video, so it passes the audio unmodified.

Also, check in Windows/Control/Panel/Sounds to verify that the device you use is capable.  I had to update drivers a few days ago for a similar problem.  Here's the account:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65165.0

[mywhey]

i have instructed it to bit stream under general video settings when i select hdmi .  my losslessfiles crash.     if you mean bitstream as in select hdmi i attempted that...resulted in error i spoke of. which has been documented i found in my research

i cannot reason with this program in this instance because the marriage between the two seems to be uncompatible.

[JimH]

What type of file are you trying to play?

Maybe this will help with audio:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Setup

[Matt]

Try Options > Audio > WASAPI Event Style, with 0.10 seconds of buffering.  Pick the sound device explicitly in Options > Audio > Output mode settings...

More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

Also, it is often better (for features and sound quality) to use PCM instead of bitstream.  More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Connection_Type

[fitbrit]

And...

Decoded, HD audio in lpcm format can still be HD (lossless); it's just that the PC decodes it rather than the AVR. The only exception is DTS-HD MA, which requires an additional step or two to set up for lossless decoding.

You have to explicitly select your nVidia card or AVR (whichever Windows recognises) as the default playback device (at least to start with) in Windows. Also do this in the video and, optionally, audio options in MC16.Once this is done, go to the Bitstream options and choose HDMI, and select the formats you wish to bitstream. It really sounds like you haven't selected a playback device which is capable of HDMI bitstreaming.

[mywhey]

Try Options > Audio > WASAPI Event Style, with 0.10 seconds of buffering.  Pick the sound device explicitly in Options > Audio > Output mode settings...

More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes

Also, it is often better (for features and sound quality) to use PCM instead of bitstream.  More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Connection_Type

i followed your instructions selected wasapi exclusive

for output i selected the name of my receiver

truehd right away!! i had listened to same track through pcm several times...this time it had so much more depth in my sub. i felt it shake the room!

wow ive never heard true hd before!!

(but i still have a question)

under video..i selected custom and un "ticked" ac3, eac3 and dts. leaving ma/hd the only two ticked. it says yes for bitstream now... but i still cannot select hdmi and play m2ts MA audio successfully. jmc crashes. as stated in previous post. (to answer jim h's question as well on what format im playing theyre m2ts)

i mean i can see picture fine...hear fine.... and it tells me "yes" im bitstreaming...just not with hdmi selected... maybe im over analyzing? just bothers me i cannot select hdmi and have it integrate.

am i missing out on something by being unable to select hdmi?




----EDIT----

under dsp studio i have jrss 2.0 selected. for channel selection it gives me 2.1 to 4 channels. i have a 3.1 set up which do i select? (there is no in between)

[mywhey]

okay so i just ran a dolby true hd channel check. registered hd just fine. solved one problem now i have another.

in the channel check the surrounds were mixed into the front soundstage. i have no surrounds.

there should have been a barely audible pink noise when rears were being checked.

why does it do this? windows sound controller thinks im using 2 channel stereo....

but now that im using wasapi it bypasses that...so it shouldnt matter?

[Matt]

Configure the number of speakers in Windows first and make sure you can play a test tone to each in Windows Sound Control Panel.

Otherwise most consumer-level sound card drivers still do mixing to the number of channels you've selected in Windows, even with WASAPI Exclusive.

[JimH]

Also, check in Windows/Control/Panel/Sounds to verify that the device you use is capable.  I had to update drivers a few days ago for a similar problem.  Here's the account:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65165.0

[glynor]

Configure the number of speakers in Windows first and make sure you can play a test tone to each in Windows Sound Control Panel.

Otherwise most consumer-level sound card drivers still do mixing to the number of channels you've selected in Windows, even with WASAPI Exclusive.

Really?  With a HDMI port?  Because this most certainly does NOT happen with my AMD card...  

This seems a bit fishy.  What consumer level sound cards are even out there that do HDMI out?  I know there were a few very expensive ones, but certainly most of them are now provided by the GPU vendors, right?  This one certainly is.  Maybe you meant a more generalized "sound device drivers", certainly, but I don't know that your overall statement is correct.

I really thought WASAPI Exclusive meant exclusive.  That's the way it seems to work here...  I think you might be thinking about analog outs.  Even then I'd be surprised, but the sound card drivers from Creative and their ilk never cease to amaze me with their cruddiness, so who knows there.

For AMD cards anyway (I've never used an nVidia to bitstream but I bet they're the same) it is often convenient to keep Windows set to 2-channel stereo while running a HDMI output.  That's because Windows sends the all 6 channels of audio for all system output then, even if the channels are blank.  For stereo sound, like for most applications (Flash in a web browser, for example), this means your receiver gets a "multi-in" PCM 6 channel stream, with 4 blank streams, and can't expand the stereo to surround.  Only applications that specifically output surround give you surround with Windows set that way (like games and MC).  That would be fine if you never fired up Chrome or Firefox to watch an episode of The Daily Show or a stupid video on YouTube, but... Come on.    

This setup is annoying in its own way, because you need to remember to switch it back to 5.1 if you do actually want to run a game that has a real multichannel out, or else you'll be stuck there with stereo expansion.  But, there is a way to make a hotkey to quickly switch between the two setups, so ... Tolerable if you use the Home Theater PC for web video (or other "dumb" sound applications) more often than gaming.

But, it seems to work with MC beautifully.

I have:

An AMD Radeon 6870 connected to a current gen Denon AVR
Options -> Audio -> Audio Output mode: WASAPI (with Exclusive ticked in the dialog, and buffering set to the default)
DSP -> Output Format -> Channels set to 5.1, mixing to JRSS (also 24-bit and resampling only when necessary set to 48kHz)

This gives me very clear (and nice) surround mixing for music and audio playback through MC.  I have another zone defined with no upmixing for when I really just want the original stereo, but I don't use it much.  When the baby/wife isn't sleeping, I can run a test if you want me to, but everything seems to indicate that it is working correctly, and it certainly sounds surround, with seemingly different things on the rear channels and cool stuff like that.

For video, I have:

Options -> Video -> Bitstreaming set to Yes (HDMI)

This enables passthrough of Dolby Digital, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-MA and their ilk.  I do this mostly because I used the Room Correction features on my AVR, which were easy, so I don't need Room Correction from MC, and don't want to have to configure the decoding (and all the decoding filter copying to Sys32 hoopla).  Basically, I'm lazy and that Just Works.  If I ever feel I really need the VideoClock feature, I might change my tune and turn bitstreaming off.  So far, I've been happy.

By default, with it this way, JRSS upmixes stereo audio and sends it out in a nice high-quality format, and all the videos that use "bitstreamable audio codecs" bitstream through.  Note that JRSS will also upmix any stereo audio video you play, but that's fine.  It does a good job.  I've been using it down in my basement with the new stereo exclusively, and it sounds good.  If you really want your receiver to upmix audio for video, but let MC do it for music, you can do this too.  Switch Options -> Video -> Audio Playback Device and point it directly at your sound device instead of "same as audio".  This means that MC essentially sends your video sound through the normal Windows output, so it is stereo only (the 2-channel Windows control panel setting mentioned above), and then your receiver will do the DTS or ProLogic thing on it. (You might be able to accomplish the same thing with "same as audio" still enabled and different zones in the DSP, but I've never tried, and you'd have to manually switch zones then.)

I'm dubious about which is better, but I'm starting to lean towards MC's default way (same as audio) and just using JRSS.  I used to do it the way just described, but I've been trying it out for a while now with JRSS, and I think I'm keeping it.

[glynor]

PS.  I re-wrote that post above like a million times before I posted it (and once or twice since, of course).  I came to this thread mostly because I thought the "hd audio downgrades to lpcm" thing in the subject line was funny, but then you know... Actually read it a while.  

* glynor shakes head...

[Matt]

I really thought WASAPI Exclusive meant exclusive.

It's exclusive in the sense that the Windows mixer is bypassed.

But the sound card driver can still resample, or do channel mixing, or apply other DSP.

For example, ASUS and Creative cards require ASIO (as opposed to WASAPI Exclusive) to do what they call "bit matched" playback, which means no resampling, DSP, etc.  

Other cards I've used always mix channels unless the output format matches the input format (my Xonar does this, and even Creative X-Fi ASIO does this by default for the RR/RL channels).

So I think it's good to get Windows working with the right number of channels, then tell Media Center to always output that same number of channels.  The test tones in DSP Studio > Room Correction are a nice way to test the channel routing / mixing part.

[glynor]

Other cards I've used always mix channels unless the output format matches the input format (my Xonar does this, and even Creative X-Fi ASIO does this by default for the RR/RL channels).

So I think it's good to get Windows working with the right number of channels, then tell Media Center to always output that same number of channels.  The test tones in DSP Studio > Room Correction are a nice way to test the channel routing / mixing part.

That's disappointing, but makes sense I suppose if the driver has it's own DSP and mixer and whatnot.

But, these HDMI outs on video cards are MUCH more simplistic.  There is no channel mixer, no DSP, and no "driver control panel" other than the stuff Windows gives you.  Like I said, I think that advice is much better suited for "sound cards" with analog outs.

Video card outputs that carry sound over HDMI are a different beast, I expect.  They may "gunk" them up eventually, but for now, there just isn't much there that would get in the way.

[mywhey]

This setup is annoying in its own way, because you need to remember to switch it back to 5.1 if you do actually want to run a game that has a real multichannel out, or else you'll be stuck there with stereo expansion.  But, there is a way to make a hotkey to quickly switch between the two setups, so ... Tolerable if you use the Home Theater PC for web video (or other "dumb" sound applications) more often than gaming.

thank you for this...i play alot of dirt 3 and this info helps me greatly!!!!!!!


An AMD Radeon 6870 connected to a current gen Denon AVR
Options -> Audio -> Audio Output mode: WASAPI (with Exclusive ticked in the dialog, and buffering set to the default)
DSP -> Output Format -> Channels set to 5.1, mixing to JRSS (also 24-bit and resampling only when necessary set to 48kHz)

this is where i am unclear. i have windows set the same way you do but currently have an oddball set up (3.1) front lcr and a sub. there is no good option for me in channel output using the dsp. it goes from 2.1 to 4 to 5.1.....id assume the closest thing is 5.1 for me to select?

For video, I have:

Options -> Video -> Bitstreaming set to Yes (HDMI)

This enables passthrough of Dolby Digital, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-MA and their ilk.    If I ever feel I really need the VideoClock feature, I might change my tune and turn bitstreaming off.  So far, I've been happy.

see for me i cannot select hdmi. all i use are hdmi cables...i have both picture and audio currently. so it must be bitstreaming via me selecting custom and the two formats i wanted. seems like all the difference between the two is that there is no difference between the two? just that one works and the other crashes j river completely for me?

thankyou for quick replies. this program minus a few: albeit very minor quirks is a wonderful program. service is top notch. ive come from the depths of media portal to this place and am sold on this place. keep it up!