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[bspachman]

Apparently, ALAC has bee open-sourced...

http://alac.macosforge.org/

I'm not sure if the Apache license is compatible with commercial software, but it would be great if full ALAC support can be added (replete with tags, etc.)

brad

[Matt]

Media Center 16 and 17 already have native ALAC support.

[sunfire7]

Interesting !! But dont MC16 has alac support already?

[Vocalpoint]

Media Center 16 and 17 already have native ALAC support.

I think you need to define what "support" means here - since one cannot use Convert Format and choose ALAC.(Unless I am missing something here) So it's really "playback" support only.

On another note - I just read that ALAC just went Open Source - so now perhaps a glimmer of hope for it to be "really" supported?

VP

[MerlinWerks]

I think you need to define what "support" means here - since one cannot use Convert Format and choose ALAC.(Unless I am missing something here) So it's really "playback" support only.

On another note - I just read that ALAC just went Open Source - so now perhaps a glimmer of hope for it to be "really" supported?

VP

+1
I got all excited there for a moment at thought of bypassing dbPoweramp for ALAC conversions.

Make it so Matt 

[Alex B]

For me MC has had full ALAC encoding support since last May:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg411870#msg411870
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg437855#msg437855

JRiver doesn't need to provide each and every possible encoder binary. For instance foobar2000 is known to have excellent support for almost every possible format, but actually no encoder binaries are included with it. The users download them separately from various places.

MC has always had support for external encoders and if a properly working command line encoder binary (exe file) is available, it is enough that the input plugin supports the format, including tagging, to have fully working support. As I explained in the linked thread you can use the original Apple ALAC encoder with MC if you have the free version of QuickTime installed and you set MC's External Encoder to use the free qaac command line QT frontend.

However, what is still lacking is support for more than one External Encoder (despite my frequent requests ). I use a few and I always have to reconfigure it when I switch the format. Matt, please add presets to the External Encoder. Ideally MC should add a new named External Encoder instance to the list when a set configuration is saved. This should be an easy task for you.

[Vocalpoint]

As I explained in the linked thread you can use the original Apple ALAC encoder with MC if you have the free version of QuickTime installed and you set MC's External Encoder to use the free qaac command line QT frontend.

Well - not only will I not install QT - I have no interest in messing around with any external encoders, command lines and the like. I guess when someone states that MC has "native" support for a specific format - I assume both playback and encoding right from MC without any additional hassle.

Probably just stick with dbPowerAmp for those times I feel like "ALAC-ing" something Still not sure if I want to use up that kinda space on my iPod anyway.

Still - now that this codec has become open source - could be a nice advantage to MC users to have an internal encoder happening at some point.

VP

[glynor]

The Apache license is generally very friendly to re-use in commercial software.

That's why Apache itself is used in all sorts of commercial products.  It is not a viral license like the GPL.  It doesn't even require that you include the source along with your distribution, or recontribute any changes back to the original project (though that is, of course, encouraged).

Basically, you just have to include attribution (so in the about dialog you'd have to put a little note that the ALAC encoder is "powered by Apple" or something like that), and you have to include the Apache license itself in the distribution (so a text file buried in the install folder somewhere).

[Alex B]

Well - not only will I not install QT - I have no interest in messing around with any external encoders, command lines and the like. I guess when someone states that MC has "native" support for a specific format - I assume both playback and encoding right from MC without any additional hassle

I guess you didn't check the link. Configuring the encoder is not more complex than creating one of the popular smartlists we regularly use -- especially after Matt has added the presets.

I also guess that most users that use M4A files (AAC or ALAC) have iTunes installed and thus also QuickTime. QuickTime is available as a separate installer if you prefer to not install iTunes. IMHO, QuickTime is rather harmless and often useful package. Its codecs are not anyhow active when they are not in use and QT does affect the completely separate DirectShow filter system.

I think the JRiver developer's time would be better spent on improving the M4A tagging speed than creating a new ALAC encoder plugin. (Of course, I won't complain if I can have both.)


[off-topic] In a "perfect" world Apple would have licensed Monkey's Audio from Matt and could now provide better lossless compression ratios. (ALAC is not a particularly effective compressor.) The Apple developers could then have done something more useful than re-inventing the wheel. Of course they probably would have first included only the fast setting to make Monkey's Audio decoding possible on the then current iPods. [/off-topic]

[MerlinWerks]

For me MC has had full ALAC encoding support since last May:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg411870#msg411870
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59513.msg437855#msg437855

JRiver doesn't need to provide each and every possible encoder binary. For instance foobar2000 is known to have excellent support for almost every possible format, but actually no encoder binaries are included with it. The users download them separately from various places.

MC has always had support for external encoders and if a properly working command line encoder binary (exe file) is available, it is enough that the input plugin supports the format, including tagging, to have fully working support. As I explained in the linked thread you can use the original Apple ALAC encoder with MC if you have the free version of QuickTime installed and you set MC's External Encoder to use the free qaac command line QT frontend.

However, what is still lacking is support for more than one External Encoders (despite my frequent requests ). I use a few and I always have to reconfigure it when I switch the format. Matt, please add presets to the External Encoder. Ideally MC should add a new named External Encoder instance to the list when a set configuration is saved. This should be an easy task for you.

Thanks for the nudge Alex, after some brief investigation I think it may be possible to use the coreconverter from dbPoweramp to do this. Would still be nice just to select ALAC from a list though 

[Vocalpoint]

I guess you didn't check the link. Configuring the encoder is not more complex than creating one of the popular smartlists we regularly use -- especially after Matt has added the presets.

It's way easier to just convert via dbPowerAmp....

I also guess that most users that use M4A files (AAC or ALAC) have iTunes installed and thus also QuickTime. QuickTime is available as a separate installer if you prefer to not install iTunes. IMHO, QuickTime is rather harmless and often useful package. Its codecs are not anyhow active when they are not in use and QT does affect the completely separate DirectShow filter system.

Yes - if you are using Apple...QT and other Apple stuff would be a given. But I would only use ALAC files for lossless playback on my iPods but I use MC to handle all the syncing. iTunes (and all other Apple software) have been banished from my network and desktops 5 years ago.

I will just stick with dbPowerAmp for those rare occasions when this would be needed.

Cheers,

VP

[Alex B]

BTW, if someone wants to encode AIFF files, it is easily possible by setting the External Exncoder to use the free SoX program (you will need just the sox.exe binary, QT is not needed):
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67204.msg450739#msg450739
MC has complete AIFF support when optional AIFF tagging is enabled: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WAV_%26_AIFF_Tagging

Unfortunately SoX does not contain an ALAC encoder, but that may change if ALAC is now open source. Most likely we are also going to see some standalone command line ALAC encoders soon (similar to lame.exe, flac.exe, mac.exe, etc).

[glynor]

I think the JRiver developer's time would be better spent on improving the M4A tagging speed than creating a new ALAC encoder plugin. (Of course, I won't complain if I can have both.)

I tend to agree, though I don't know how much of a big project the ALAC thing would be with the source now available.  It might be something pretty darn easy, or it might be a big project.

Frankly, I think putting lossless files on your iPod is absurd, and there is no way I'd ever use ALAC for my long-term media storage, so I'm really not that concerned either way personally.

[glynor]

iTunes (and all other Apple software) have been banished from my network and desktops 5 years ago.

I was like you once.  But, for the record... While iTunes performs like crap, and crashes a lot (especially on Windows, but it isn't fantastic on OSX either)... There's really nothing particularly evil about the QuickTime installer anymore.

The iTunes installer does install a system service or two (for detection of and administration of their handheld devices), but they are well behaved and it only takes a second to head over to the Services management panel in Windows to stop that from auto-loading, if you like.

QuickTime doesn't really do much of anything bad in current versions, so long as you are careful not to let it take over your file associations (which is obnoxious in pretty much every media player installer out there, so that's nothing Apple-specific).

Really the only thing I find even a little annoying is the Apple Software Updater utility.  And they've fixed it so it doesn't try to auto-install Safari anymore (that only lasted like two months before they fixed it), and it is easy to avoid installing it at all by simply clicking "No" when they ask you in the iTunes or QuickTime install process.

iTunes itself is still a piece of fail though.  And installing an update seems to ALWAYS require a reboot, which makes me angry.

[Alex B]

Regarding "Apple support" in general, a possible to way enhance it would be to add support for the so called iTunes LPs. Out of curiosity I have (or actually someone in my family has) bought a few iTunes LPs. In addition to the music album they usually contain a couple music videos, perhaps an interview video, art images & liner notes. An iTunes LP is a bit like a well designed mini website for the album (actually its code does not differ much from a website code). I wouldn't complain if MC could display also iTunes LPs. Now I have to use iTunes to view them. Of course I can import and play the individual M4A and M4V files with MC just fine.

[glynor]

I bought one of those (Pearl Jam Backspacer) because when it first came out, there was some sort of exclusivity deal and it was ONLY available on iTunes (not Amazon) and ONLY available in individual tracks or as the iTunes LP version.

I just imported the tracks and videos and had MC rearrange them.  It broke the LP thing, but after looking at it once, I didn't care anymore.

[Alex B]

... Most likely we are also going to see some standalone command line ALAC encoders soon (similar to lame.exe, flac.exe, mac.exe, etc).

My prediction was right. A command line encoder, refalac.exe, is now available in the qaac package. It is based on the Apple reference code and works fine with MC.

Parameters: -s -o %OUT %IN  (See the attached screenshot.)


Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachment.

[salataman]

My prediction was right. A command line encoder, refalac.exe, is now available in the qaac package. It is based on the Apple reference code and works fine with MC.

Parameters: -s -o %OUT %IN  (See the attached screenshot.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Alex
I tried convertin FLAC to ALAV via qaad - as you have described how to. Thank you for that. I have one question though: The original FLAC file is 23.4 MB, whereas the new ALAC is only 5.2 MB. Is that normal? Or is there some kind of "over-compression" which in return means loss?
many thanx

[Alex B]

I tried convertin FLAC to ALAV via qaad - as you have described how to. Thank you for that. I have one question though: The original FLAC file is 23.4 MB, whereas the new ALAC is only 5.2 MB. Is that normal? Or is there some kind of "over-compression" which in return means loss?

Usually ALAC should be about the same size as FLAC. Perhaps you configured MC to use the qaac.exe program that is included in the same package. It creates lossy AAC files (...at least by default. I have not checked if it still has the now more or less redundant QuickTime ALAC encoding option.)

Double-check that MC is configured to use refalac.exe as in my screenshot.

[salataman]

Usually ALAC should be about the same size as FLAC. Perhaps you configured MC to use the qaac.exe program that is included in the same package. It creates lossy AAC files (...at least by default. I have not checked if it still has the now more or less redundant QuickTime ALAC encoding option.)

Double-check that MC is configured to use refalac.exe as in my screenshot.

Hi there, thanks again for your reply. One step further: can we add parameters to manuplate the bitdepth and sampling rate while converting? 24/96 files are not supported by my Ipod; so while converting 24/96 Flac to ALAC, I also want to bring them down to 16/44. Do you think that is possible?

[Alex B]

Hi there, thanks again for your reply. One step further: can we add parameters to manuplate the bitdepth and sampling rate while converting? 24/96 files are not supported by my Ipod; so while converting 24/96 Flac to ALAC, I also want to bring them down to 16/44. Do you think that is possible?

DSP is not available in the standard converter, but you can use the Handheld option. It is possible to sync a virtual Handheld that places the synced files in a disk folder and use its format conversion feature with DSP.

Though, apparently the resampler does not work with the Handheld conversion. I just tested it. The bit depth was set correctly to 16-bit but the converted files were not resampled. I will report this as a bug.

For now, you can use MC's DSP for setting the bit depth and resample the file with refalac. Here is the command line for refalac: --rate=44100 -s -o %OUT %IN

A forum search should find threads that explain how create a virtual Handheld.

[Alex B]

FYI,

refalac has had a bit depth setting for some months now.

--rate=44100 -b 16 -s -o %OUT %IN

- resamples to 44.1 k and sets the bit depth to 16-bit. This setting can be used in the regular converter and in the Handheld conversion options. If the source file is already already in the specified format the conversion is fully lossless so there is no need to change the setting for 16/44.1 source files.

[Alex B]

And a bump for this request:

However, what is still lacking is support for more than one External Encoder (despite my frequent requests ). I use a few and I always have to reconfigure it when I switch the format. Matt, please add presets to the External Encoder. Ideally MC should add a new named External Encoder instance to the list when a set configuration is saved. This should be an easy task for you.

[InflatableMouse]

However, what is still lacking is support for more than one External Encoders (despite my frequent requests Tongue ). I use a few and I always have to reconfigure it when I switch the format. Matt, please add presets to the External Encoder. Ideally MC should add a new named External Encoder instance to the list when a set configuration is saved. This should be an easy task for you.

+1.