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[Misterboy]

Dear JRiver,

I just received an email indicating that I have a limited time offer to upgrade Media Center to a version 17 license at the low-low price of $18.98 if I act now!  What an incredibly great deal considering I just shelled out $40 for what I thought was the latest version of the software!

But wait... it's okay because *if* I purchased your software on or after October 1st, I'll have received a current license for Media Center 17.  There's only one small problem... I stupidly bought your software 3 days earlier on the 28th of September.  Oops.

I'm not an ignorant buyer.  I was aware a month ago that there was talk of a MC 17 beta.  BUT, I was equally aware that buying a license meant automatic updates, so that I felt secure I would always be running the most up-to-date version of your software.  This frequent automatic updating is one of your selling points.

So, I did the conscientious thing and I looked around for a release date for MC 17.  I figured I'd make sure I wasn't shooting myself in the foot by buying your software just before a big new release.  Well, I couldn't find a release date.  I assume it wouldn't come out for a while, and moreover, I assumed I would be treated well.  I had been using your free trial, and the 30 days were up, so I thought, "what the heck, this software is great, the company seems well-intentioned, I'll just buy it".

I'm pissed off.

I'm really pissed off.

How would you feel if you just convinced yourself to spend $40 on something, with a feeling that your $40 investment would keep you up-to-date for maybe a year or so.  Then, a *month* later, you get an email telling you that if you act now you can have the latest version of the software for a mere $19 more.  I mean, I paid the fracking credit card bill yesterday for crying out loud.

Furthermore, I have searched and searched and I can't find a phone number or direct email to your sales department.  So instead of being able to handle this in a more civilized manner, I'm forced to guess what section of the forums I should use to contact you, in a very public way.  So now I have the warm feeling of a bunch of very savvy Media Center users thinking to themselves, "Idiotic idiot should have waited", and the distinct lack of knowledge of whether or not a JRiver employee will actually even see this.  I'm new to this community and this is how I'm starting out.  Hi everyone! 

I know I probably just fell in between the cracks - unfortunate set of circumstances and all that - but it still feels like a big ol' slap in the face.

-Dan

[lise]

Hey Dan,

Long time user here.
JRiver works a bit differently than other typical software upgrades.
What I mean is that rather than keep the next upgrade limited to staff testing for a year they open it up to the public almost immediately for testing. I don't know when 17 will actually be fully released, but in my experience it will be pretty close to the date that v18 beta comes out

This probably doesn't help with your being pissed, but I just wanted to offer an explanation of how JRiver tends to work. It's actually part of what makes them so good, when you think about it, in that they publicly test for almost a year, "officially release" when it's very good, and almost immediately start testing with new features for about another year, etc.  What I'm getting at in a roundabout kind of way is that v17 will not be offically released for a good number of months, so if you don't want to test the 'new' version, wait until it's released to get it.

[justsomeguy]

I completely agree with the point lise made.

I usually upgrade to the newest publicly released betas within the first couple weeks of it being released so this doesn't bother me obviously. However I can understand the frustration someone, as a new user who isn't familiar with the way jriver does releases and upgrades, might have if they bought the software 2 days before the cut off period. If it was me and I got to come to the forum everyday and see all the new features and fixes I'm missing out on because of 2 days, I might be a little annoyed too.

I had thought about this before and maybe it has been discussed and dismissed already as an alternative but, what if the licensing scheme was changed to more of a subscription type thing. Say I purchase the software today, I then get free updates to any version releases for 1 year. After that year I have 1 week to renew my license for another year at a discounted price. This way it doesn't matter when I purchase the software and someone like Misterboy wouldn't feel pissed.

 

[pcstockton]

I had thought about this before and maybe it has been discussed and dismissed already as an alternative but, what if the licensing scheme was changed to more of a subscription type thing. Say I purchase the software today, I then get free updates to any version releases for 1 year. After that year I have 1 week to renew my license for another year at a discounted price. This way it doesn't matter when I purchase the software and someone like Misterboy wouldn't feel pissed.

 

What about those of us who are more than happy with MC16 and dont see any needed features in MC17?  I need to renew anyway??  This would be acceptable if the monthly subscription was say...$3?  Dont see it happening.   Also, to Dan, are you sure you really want/need 17?  Why not simply wait for 18?

[justsomeguy]

After your 1 year subscription was up the software wouldn't stop working. You could continue to use the one you have but updates would be disabled.

[pcstockton]

what kind of price per month are you thinking about?

Something tells me this would SERIOUSLY impact JRiver's bottom line, which is most likely already razor thin.

We ALL need a healthy, happy, profitable JRiver.  Just send them the $20 and a thank you for being allowed unparalleled access to those developing the software.  When was the last time any other company asked you for input on their next product, or implemented your suggestions (or at least considered them)?

-patrick

[fitbrit]

Now for some negativity...

Dear JRiver,

I know your cut-off for MC17 upgrades was October 1st, but this other guy made a big fuss because he bought his 3 days before. Well, I bought mine three days before him, so if you're making exceptions to the cut off date, I demand one too.

Sincerely,

Fatbrat.

Hmmm... or:

I paid for version 16 and that's exactly what I got. In a year's time it won't do any less than it does now.

Try whining to Cyberlink, Adobe, Apple or Microsoft and see how far it gets you. What's the point of a cut-off date if people are going to complain? What happened to 'them's the breaks' and 'maybe next time I'll come out ahead'?
I don't usually rant, but the world really is becoming fully of complainers who feel they are entitled to everything, or deserve to be an exception.

[justsomeguy]

Try whining to Cyberlink, Adobe, Apple or Microsoft and see how far it gets you. What's the point of a cut-off date if people are going to complain? What happened to 'them's the breaks' and 'maybe next time I'll come out ahead'?
I don't usually rant, but the world really is becoming fully of complainers who feel they are entitled to everything, or deserve to be an exception.

I don't feel entitled to anything. If I did I wouldn't pay for the software to begin with and just go find some dark corner of the internet to get it for free but I don't do that. I pay and work for everything I have.

Cyberlink, Adobe, Apple and Microsoft don't release software the same way jriver does. Yes, version 17 is beta and not considered official release but I'd guess most regular jriver users use these betas as their official version. The way jriver sends out limited time discounted upgrade pricing emails to all customers makes it feel like more "official" software. Those other companies you mentioned don't do that with beta software. Don't get me wrong I appreciate and take advantage of the discount offers.

[glynor]

I did try whining to Arcsoft not that long ago because I bought TMT literally 12 hours before they launched TMT5.

Not only did they not make an exception, they ignored my email and my forum post.

[lise]

I did try whining to Arcsoft not that long ago because I bought TMT literally 12 hours before they launched TMT5.

Not only did they not make an exception, they ignored my email and my forum post.

Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

[fitbrit]

I don't feel entitled to anything. If I did I wouldn't pay for the software to begin with and just go find some dark corner of the internet to get it for free but I don't do that. I pay and work for everything I have.

Cyberlink, Adobe, Apple and Microsoft don't release software the same way jriver does. Yes, version 17 is beta and not considered official release but I'd guess most regular jriver users use these betas as their official version. The way jriver sends out limited time discounted upgrade pricing emails to all customers makes it feel like more "official" software. Those other companies you mentioned don't do that with beta software. Don't get me wrong I appreciate and take advantage of the discount offers.

To be clear, my rant wasn't directed at you, and I hope there's no reason for you to think that it was.

[glynor]

Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

* glynor was not amused.

EDIT:  Though, joke's on them, I don't care anymore because MC now supports BluRay and is better than TMT in every other conceivable way.  So, that'll be the last pennies they ever get from me.

Too bad.  I spend a bunch of money on this kind of stuff, I'm willing to pay for software instead of pirating it, and I help direct the software budgeting money (especially for AV related things) for a 1500+ employee company.

You never know who your customers are, or what potential they might have.

[jmone]

FYI, for the last few years the release cycle for a new Version is 9-10months (publically avail version of MC14 was June 09, MC15 Apr 10, MC16 Jan 11, MC17 Oct 11).  The current licencing system means there will always be a line that someone will be on the wrong side of.  The only other system I know that a few have moved to is a licence that provides 12months of updates from the date of purchase (of course this is not what JR currently offers).

[fitbrit]

* glynor was not amused.

But glynor got on with his life and probably didn't bring it up much until today (after an initial fuming), may I hazard to guess?

[glynor]

By the way, I'm relating this anecdote not to take either side on this particular issue.  I, personally, think that what JRiver did here was pretty fair.  They backdated the switch back to the beginning of the month, well before MC17 was announced even in private to the beta group.  On the other hand, refer to what I just said above about knowing who your customers are, and planning for the future.

I don't really have that strong of an opinion.

I can say this... The upgrade is less than $20 right now.  I've probably wasted more than $20 worth of my time (certainly, at the rates I bill for work) just reading this thread.

Tag On Import and Carnac alone make the upgrade worth $20.  And there's a bunch of other good stuff in there already, and you know they're going to keep iterating on it like crazy for the next 10 months or so.

I don't know... Meh.  ?

[glynor]

But glynor got on with his life and probably didn't bring it up much until today (after an initial fuming), may I hazard to guess?

Exactly.

My wife got an earful.  No one else cared.  I forgot the next day, mostly.

And that was $80 or something like that.

[fitbrit]

FYI, for the last few years the release cycle for a new Version is 9-10months (publically avail version of MC14 was June 09, MC15 Apr 10, MC16 Jan 11, MC17 Oct 11).  The current licencing system means there will always be a line that someone will be on the wrong side of.  The only other system I know that a few have moved to is a licence that provides 12months of updates from the date of purchase (of course this is not what JR currently offers).

If one buys into an early build of a new version, one does get the improvements, bug fixes and new features of at least 100 new builds though. I think MC12 had over 400 builds when I bought it. Although, the normal JRiver user doesn't know when a new build is imminent before its announcement, it might be safe to say that if a product has been out over 9 months and has 150+ builds, there may be something new in the pipeline.
jmone, do you have a record of how many builds there were per version too?

[kwake]

I'm also a longtime MC fan/user. Because of this, I'm willing to bet that if the poster had sent a private mail to Jim, instead of a public rant, that something may have been able to be worked out (Jim may actually still be willing to help him out - but perhaps not publicly).

Also, if you think you'll be wanting MC17 in 6 months, why not pay the 20 now, continue using MC16 until MC17 is released, and be happy to have saved 8 bucks.

Personally, I'm going to get the upgrade now at the discount, because I'm sure MC17 will turn out to be awesome, as usually has been the case with the other versions. Looking forward to working with JRiver on the MC17 Beta (I'm about to post an idea about automagic lyrics tag population!)

Kwake

[fitbrit]

Exactly.

My wife got an earful.  No one else cared.  I forgot the next day, mostly.

And that was $80 or something like that.

Well, maybe I'm being harsh on the OP... this is likely his initial fuming. I hope he upgrades and is happy with MC17. Strictly speaking though, he's not being asked to upgrade, he's being offered an upgrade at a discounted price.

[glynor]

If one buys into an early build of a new version, one does get the improvements, bug fixes and new features of at least 100 new builds though. I think MC12 had over 400 builds when I bought it. Although, the normal JRiver user doesn't know when a new build is imminent before its announcement, it might be safe to say that if a product has been out over 9 months and has 150+ builds, there may be something new in the pipeline.
jmone, do you have a record of how many builds there were per version too?

If you're paying attention, you can tell not by the number of builds (which has varied greatly over the years I've been using their product), but by the "time distance between builds".

If the "sticky build" at the top of the public forum is more than 15-20 days old, the one before that lasted a similarly "long" time, and you're thinking about buying (and ESPECIALLY if the build number is more than 100 or so)?

I'd probably use my trial period out, wait, and see what happens for a couple weeks.

[jmone]

jmone, do you have a record of how many builds there were per version too?

Sure (I just went to the forum for each of MC14, 15, 16 and looked for the first built post / last build post) and get.... MC16 = 181, MC15 = 174, MC14 = 165.  Anyway I get great value from MC and how the licencing works as I always upgrade as soon as I can...  it is just a "feature" of the licencing system that there will always be someone feeling jipped by 1 day...2 days etc etc.

[fitbrit]

If you're paying attention, you can tell not by the number of builds (which has varied greatly over the years I've been using their product), but by the "time distance between builds".

If the "sticky build" at the top of the public forum is more than 15-20 days old, the one before that lasted a similarly "long" time, and you're thinking about buying (and ESPECIALLY if the build number is more than 100 or so)?

I'd probably use my trial period out, wait, and see what happens for a couple weeks.

To be fair, we're seasoned veterans and know to look for these signs. OP wasn't to know all that. It's like we're expert trackers!

[jmone]

A thread like this appears every time the new release is made public. 

[fitbrit]

Sure (I just went to the forum for each of MC14, 15, 16 and looked for the first built post / last build post) and get.... MC16 = 181, MC15 = 174, MC14 = 165.  Anyway I get great value from MC and how the licencing works as I always upgrade as soon as I can...  it is just a "feature" of the licencing system that there will always be someone feeling jipped by 1 day...2 days etc etc.

Thanks very much for doing that. I believe MC12 was 420+ and MC13 was relatively much shorter.

[fitbrit]

I'm also a longtime MC fan/user. Because of this, I'm willing to bet that if the poster had sent a private mail to Jim, instead of a public rant, that something may have been able to be worked out (Jim may actually still be willing to help him out - but perhaps not publicly).

Also, if you think you'll be wanting MC17 in 6 months, why not pay the 20 now, continue using MC16 until MC17 is released, and be happy to have saved 8 bucks.

Personally, I'm going to get the upgrade now at the discount, because I'm sure MC17 will turn out to be awesome, as usually has been the case with the other versions. Looking forward to working with JRiver on the MC17 Beta (I'm about to post an idea about automagic lyrics tag population!)

Kwake

Yes, I do remember Jim making some exceptions, and that was very nice of him. It's good PR, but also encourages a trend for people to not take cut-offs and deadlines seriously.

[glynor]

To be fair, we're seasoned veterans and know to look for these signs. OP wasn't to know all that. It's like we're expert trackers!

I agree.  I was just saying....

[glynor]

Thanks very much for doing that. I believe MC12 was 420+ and MC13 was relatively much shorter.

Yeah.  If I remember correctly, they did 12.0.x and then 12.1.x, which was free for existing 12.0 customers.

10.0 had a bunch of builds too, I think.

[fitbrit]

I agree.  I was just saying....

Maybe some of your tracking tips should be made as a sticky of FAQ with a YMMV disclaimer.

[glynor]

Every so often someone notices and posts a "Gone Quiet?" thread.  I'm pretty sure there was one of those on the MC16 board around the beginning of October, in fact.

It is what it is.

Could be a whole lot worse.  Apple laughs at you about this kind of stuff.  I know someone who clicked "buy" on a $5000 Mac Pro workstation literally 5 minutes before the Apple Store went offline and they revved the line (luckily it was just a CPU bump, and not anything major).  Usually, if it is same-day, Apple holds the orders and fixes it.  But his ended up shipping as-ordered.  Of course, you have 30 days to return hardware, so that problem was easily solved.

It also seems to happen to Leo Laporte all the time.  The best time to buy a Mac?  Three weeks after Leo buys one, because you know the new ones are going to come out soon.

On-the-other-hand, I do understand how the OP feels.  Bad timing stinks for pretty much any reason.

[Matt]

Jim, the owner of the company, responded to the same question here:

We have to cut it off on some date and October 1 is it.  

We begin to offer an upgrade license at a reduced price long before the next version is at a stable release status.  

If you buy each year when the new version goes into beta, MC will cost you about 37 cents a week.  Or around a cup of Starbuck's coffee every other month.

So you can buy it now for $18.98, or wait until later when it will be $26.98, or just stay with MC16.

I'm sorry if you don't feel that it's fair.

I also work for the company.  We work very hard on the program.  It's up to you to decide if the work we put into each version is worth an upgrade.

Thank you to those of you that do support our work, original poster included.

[Sandy B Ridge]

I was one of the lucky ones when I bought. MC16 wasn't public yet when I got MC15 and I unknowingly got an MC16 license.

When you consider the features you get and the reviews of the product, it represents excellent value for money. I spent more at the pub last night on a few beers with friends than the upgrade price! I was even considering waiting until after the offer price had expired to upgrade in order to 'give' JRiver an extra $8, but my other half gave me 'the look' when I mentioned it!

It is still a 'public beta' at the moment and not an official stable release so I think that there has been fair warning.

SBR

[justsomeguy]

To be clear, my rant wasn't directed at you, and I hope there's no reason for you to think that it was.

Maybe I took it a little to personally and I realize it wasn't wasn't directed at me. I just didn't feel that because the OP was upset, that meant he had an entitlement attitude.

When I first purchased MC years ago it was a similar situation for me, although not as close to the dead line as the OP. I kicked myself a few times but realized it was the nature of the beast and just accepted it and am very happy I stuck with jriver.

Every time a new beta version is released and discounted upgrades offered this issue comes up. Being a brand new customer and basically your first experience with jriver having this happen to you can leave a bad impression. Some people will just suck it up but others may just go somewhere else.  My thought with the yearly based licensing is only an idea to avoid having these bad first experiences for new customers. Those of us that have been with jriver for years don't run into this issue so it may be hard to understand the persons frustration.

[Misterboy]

Hey guys,

Well, it looks like my post has started a great debate of some sort.  I'm aware that the JRiver community is robust and engaged, but please don't turn this into something it is not.

A valid point was made that JRiver works differently and that version 17 is not, in fact, out yet.  That's fine.  But many appear to have missed my point:  as a consumer who does not have the time to educate myself about every aspect of how a company works via it's forum, I made a clear and sustained effort to make an informed choice.  I did the best I could with several *hours* of searching.  I was being *really* *really* careful.  I expected I was buying a constantly updated piece of software where *my* input might actually help direct development.  But if version 17 is where essentially all development is going, then that is *not* what I got, despite what was "advertised".

I'd also like to address the suggestion that I should have contacted a particular person directly rather than make a public post.  Again... did you read my post?  I specifically addressed this issue.  I have NO way of knowing how to get in touch with JRiver in a more appropriate away.  Again, I spent a great deal of time trying to locate an email address or phone number.  Perhaps there was another avenue to take, but I looked for it and I couldn't find it.  That is not my fault.  Forgive me, for not knowing the ins and outs of a massive forum/community.  I tried.  I could have called 612 677 8200, but it specifically says it is for "corporate sales and business development only".

Thirdly, regarding "whining" about missing the cut off date:  re-read my post.  If this happens a lot... then JRiver has a systemic problem which needs to be addressed.  Another solution would be to provide an email address so that anyone caught in "an unfortunate situation" could address the problem appropriately.  I did *not* want to post about this on the forum.  I had no other choice, as far as I could tell.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but I challenge you to take a moment and put yourself in my shoes.  1.  Imagine buying a piece of software which on your income level is a non-insignificant amount of money.  2. The day you pay your credit card bill seeing a charge for the software, you feel good about supporting a company with an awesome product who seems to go the extra mile to communicate with it's users. 3. Only moments later you notice an email asking you to "hurry now" and pay 50% of what you *just* paid, to ensure you get the latest version.  It's a Sh***y feeling.  It really is.  Especially when you tried to ensure you wouldn't get in this situation in the first place.  Then, imagine that you search and search and find the only apparent way to discuss the matter with the company is through a public forum.  Then you get a lot of blow back from people who are much more "in the know" and can't possibly imagine how you don't know what they know.

As it stands, I would like to hear from someone from JRiver regarding this.  How this is addressed will directly impact my future custom.  I'd post my email address, but I think that unwise.  So you can reach me via a PM.  I still don't know how to reach you directly.  I see a lot of replies from the development team; my issue is not with you.  You guys make a great product.  My beef is with the sales department.  I would have contacted them if I was able.

-Dan

p.s.  I have no feelings of undeserved entitlement.  I hate current American consumer culture and everything that goes with it.  I took into account the product I was buying, who I was buying it from, and several *hours* of research into making a purchase decision.  I feel I was misled, however subtly about what I was, in fact, buying.  I feel as though the person I bought it from *may* have misrepresented themselves.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is more than sufficient to have buyers remorse and sour any potential future good will.  The situation is in JRiver's hands (assuming someone related to this direct issue even becomes aware of my post), and how they handle it will determine my future with them.  Simple as that.

And I know although all (most?) of you are die hard JRiver fans, as well you should be, there is an inescapable fact that several *free* products can duplicate my uses for Media Center.  But I *really* wanted to support them.  Having that good will thrown back in your face is what causes vitriol.

[Matt]

Please read my response above.  You're talking to JRiver.

[JimH]

Please tell us how you were misled.  Be specific if you can.

[jgreen]

To the OP:

Just so you understand, you are NOT being shut out of bug fixes for version 16.  JRiver will continue to support this version for a reasonable time, according to their own policy.  Just like you, I am a customer that bought v16 over the summer, and then shelled out another $19 for v17, just recently.  V16 was working just fine and did everything I needed--so why did I do this?  Because it's fun!! 

MC 17 is a work-in-progress.  As alluded to throughout this thread, you are talking to the guys that invented this stuff.  They will continue to support you on MC16, for stability and bugs.  All the NEW features are going into MC17, and they're not all done yet, by a long shot.  Want in?  That's nineteen bucks, hombre, just like I paid. 

For comparison, look at Firefox.  A new version number every Turesday.  I've got 3.6X and it does everything I need, and I'm only now learning it.  What are they up to now, v8?  If there was anything I wanted there, I would download it for free.  Instead, I'm downloading the latest version of MC, which has actual new features, and it costs me less than taking a family to McDonalds (I don't have a family--do I need to go get one?).

When it comes to shreiking at faceless corporations, I'm right in the front row.  But JRiver is a small company that does big things in their chosen arena.  These people deserve respect for that, or we should all go back to Windows Media Player, or Vista. 

The foregoing FWIW.     

[sunfire7]

Man, I know how you feel, sometimes you are lucky and sometimes not so much, but they are not cheating you or stealing you .... just pay the $19, it's actually very cheap compared to what you will get...

[steveklein]

or don't pay the $18, and enjoy the awesome piece of software that is MC16. that is what you paid for, after all. then when mc18 comes out, snag the upgrade price on that (hint: it's probably going to be late summer 2012, give or take a month or two)

i've been in your shoes before with this software. i bought mc12 about a week before i would have been elgible for an mc13 license. i was frustrated, but quickly got over it. i'm not a "power user" so i don't upgrade every version. i upgrade every other version... but when you consider that for $20 every 18 months or so gets me software that renders iTunes pointless, it is a bargain no matter how you slice it. i think j river lets you get the upgrade price for 2 or 3 versions back. if i recall correctly, when i got MC14, people with MC11 were eligible for the upgrade price.

personally it would be "more fair" to offer 12 (or 6, or 9, or whatever) months of upgrades with a license key so that you know exactly what you are getting. it does seem a little "unfair" that some people get a few weeks of upgrades while others get almost a year. but just remember, MC16 is the 2nd best media manager out there (trailing just a touch behind MC17). if i were running a company, that's probably how i'd do it. but hey, i'm not... so there's going to be a line in the sand. nobody wants to be on the wrong side of it, but if it wasn't you, it was going to be someone else.

in the mean time, enjoy the hell out of your awesome piece of software... because it isn't like MC16 just became less valuable; it still does everything it did a month ago (and more, actually).

[JohnFC]

I just paid and upgraded in Aug - not even 4 months ago!!!!!!!!!
Regret, now totally over being ripped off.

Look like we heading for a upgrade every quarter and then a monthly subscription.
Enough is enough.
Delete my acct - do what you want.

Lastly, I sell and distribute business software so am very familiar with s/w licensing, upgrades, maintenance, new versions etc, I know very well when there is a BIG RIP!
I have never EVER seen such quick change to version numbers as with this product, conveniently done to to justify new revenue.

I'm out of here.

[MrHaugen]

It's the same dance, all over again. This is a software which you are not entitled to upgrades of major version (now at 17). There is no place that this is written or even suggested. Only small build versions is free of charge for that major version.

JRiver HAVE to set a point which to start working on MC17, and they have to set a date which the MC16 licenses will work with MC17. If this was greatly expanded they would not make enough money to continue developing this great product. Some people will be unlucky and do the purchase at a bad time, close to the turnover date. But how is this any different from ANY other purchases which include products changing versions and models? You have to take a stand and figure out if there will come a new model soon. If this is enough for you, or if you want to sit on the fence and wait until the "new thing" gets out. Its like this all over!

Put your self in JRiver shoes, and think about how you would have done it. Could you have done much better? Probably not.

I think you have a few options when it comes to sales.
1. You can use JRiver current model, which I think is good. The price for upgrades is not really expensive.
2. Unlimited updates. JRiver would probably not be here today with this model
3. You can use time limited upgrades. For example eligible for 2 years of free upgrades. JRiver have to raise the price to the double for this to work, as they release a new major version almost every year. But you will STILL have people that does not get the newest version at a point. There is also a turnover date here.
4. Yearly monthly/subscription fee, which includes all updates. this might work, but I don't think this is fare for people who just wants one version and can do fine with that. The price would probably be about the same as you pay today.

So, my advice is simply this. Pay the small fee of under 20$ and get over it. This is NOT a huge cost. It's a cost that most todays children could afford. Or just drop the upgrade if you're satisfied with the product at it's previous version.

[RoadKill]

It's a small company, and a big bit of complex, feature-rich software.
They need to feed their bottom line somehow. I'm on an old version of Media Center, and you know what, I don't care - it does exactly what I want it to do, still. That won't change. If I need a new version, I know where to come.
Would you even get this kind of audience with a bigger software company? No, you wouldn't - nobody would even talk to you.
They're trying to be reasonable. You chose the software with good reason, and after long research - suddenly now there's a new version, and the software you chose can't do the job? It can, and it always will. You don't need to upgrade.

[struct]

hmmm, is there not a pricing structure that doesn't have such a quantum step in outcome for the first time purchaser? 

I am happy to pay my yearly upgrade to MC, money well spent.  But I appreciate the OP's point of view that he thought (innocently but incorrectly) that he was buying into something that he didn't quite get (a time of upgrades).  This would be an easily made mistake (zero blame to JR just a mistake I could see being made).  Once you join the system of upgrading, it is a great way to support development by hard working and passionate people.  However, there must be a way to have a smoother point of entry for the unlucky few, a way of not hurting JR but also a way of stopping people feeling unlucky.  JR don't have to have done anything wrong, nor have a process that is any way unfair for someone to be on the unlucky end of a calendar.  Maybe a statement of 9 months minimum free upgrades explicitly stated reduces confusion??

Craig

PS is there somewhere that I can donate $3 to the unlucky sod's fund so that we don't have to have these types of posts  [mine included] (kind of like the presidential election option with the tax return and JR get to choose whom to give the "you just missed the new version" upgrades and their posts get deleted immediately)

[chriswatson]

I have to somewhat sympathize with the original post. On the surface it does seem like he "just missed out".

On the other hand, the "beta" really is a "beta". The final release will be on in a year or so and the really great part is the users get to help guide the release with feature requests and the JRiver team is great about being responsive.

Perhaps a partial solution would be to offer a software yearly maintenance fee, say.... $15 or so that gives you the right to any and all upgrades for a year? If your license lapsed you could still use the software but you wouldn't get any updates until you paid... say ... 50% or 60% of the current list price?

It would probably net out to about the same amount of money but it might be a more obvious way to indicate to the customers that they really need to think about a (small) ongoing cost, a latte a month or less, if they want to continue to get updates after the first year.

A minor nit that I do have is being surprised when JRiver closes off a major version, I don't recall seeing any public pre announcements. The reason this bothers me is I have some minor crash bugs that still affect me. It would be *REALLY* nice if 30 to 45 days prior to closing off the build JRiver could focus publicly on stability over new functionality and invite users to focus on that. Perhaps even issue a "pre-gold" release with that comment in the release notes. The reason is I want a STABLE build I can use while the next major release is being used. I had major stability issues with the final of release 15 and had to upgrade soon to 16. As a result I almost left using JRiver because I went through a 6 month or so period where JRiver 16 was crashing at least 2 or 3 times a day. I loved the audio quality but really hated the crashing.

[MrHaugen]

Perhaps a partial solution would be to offer a software yearly maintenance fee, say.... $15 or so that gives you the right to any and all upgrades for a year? If your license lapsed you could still use the software but you wouldn't get any updates until you paid... say ... 50% or 60% of the current list price?

So, the user might be very happy about receiving the new license this year. But what about next year, when this maintenance license expires right before the NEXT major version. It will be the same QQ all over. "this is not fair", "I was not told this would expire right before the next version", "why did you not extend it 10 more days", "I should get a much better discount or get it for free when I purchased so close to the beta" and so on.

No matter how you twist and turn this subject there will always be those lucky few who decides to take the plunge, and have to pay a bit extra shortly after to keep up with the versions. That is the risk of many purchases. But this is a choice every users have. I think the only thing that would prevent this is to offer lifetime upgrades. The product would then probably be ridiculously expensive to calculate profit for the lack of steady income. A few new users would be expected now and then, but no way near the stream of users as today. I would personally like this option, but the overall user base would suffer terribly in my opinion.

[Jaguu]

Hi, welcome in the real world of IT. You may have noticed that whenever you buy a new pc, a new printer, a new mobile phone, a new tv set, you are already outdated, because a week or two later you will find new models on the market making your new purchase looking really old. Do you buy a new car every time a new model appears on the market? Probably not!

An invitation to upgrade is not a compulsion to ugrade. Nowadays you can spend all your time upgrading software products almost on a daily basis, you could get crazy about it. I disabled all auto-update functions of all sofware on my pc's, well except one - JRiver Media Center

[fitbrit]

Instead of looking at it as "I missed out on free updates," one should pity the people who got those updates.
THEY were the ones who had to live with an inferior product (compared to the one OP bought in its finished version) for the best part of a year!
They were the ones who had to endure and report the bugs and experience fewer features compared to build 181. Now with Version 17 we have to suffer the process once again.
I guarantee that the current build of MC17 is far inferior to a future build 1XX. Yet for most of the time I'll use version 17, I will be using one of these inferior builds. Pity us early adopters.

[glynor]

I just paid and upgraded in Aug - not even 4 months ago!!!!!!!!!
Regret, now totally over being ripped off.

Look like we heading for a upgrade every quarter and then a monthly subscription.

I'm not sure you were being serious, but...

MC 16.0.1 was released on 12/20/2010, not in August.  By your standards, no company could ever release a new version of a product, because someone always bought the old version a few months ago.

[vagskal]

I have not read everything in this thread, actually pretty much just the topic/heading. I just wanted to say that I am happy to pay what is asked by JRiver, and I use only a tiny fraction of what MC is capable of.

The yearly MC "tax" does not worry me. What I am worried about with such an experienced development team is if the developers have begun to teach their children the secrets of MC coding and the JRiver business model...

I have invested much time and effort using software that just stopped being developed further. To have faith in the ability to provide continuous development is to me more important than the modest fee I have to pay to JRiver occasionally (and the "back door" of keeping as much info as I can in the tags of my music files instead of just in a proprietary database).

Thanks.