Topic: Any reasons for me to upgrade? (Read 4532 times)

mesue · « **on:** November 12, 2011, 03:10:15 pm »

Hi all,

I am still on version 14. Since most of my music consumption is on a Squeezebox these days, it's gotten to where I mainly use MC for tagging new music and transferring it to my server machine. Since all my play stats are in Squeezebox server, I have that exporting out to iTunes, and then I use MC iTunes Synchronizer to export the iTunes stats to MC, and I have some smartlists that I automatically export every night for Squeezebox Server.

Years ago, I played around with the Media Server features but I could never get it to work reliably with my DirecTV DVR. So I got PlayOn and that works for what I need.

Anyway, given the tiny fraction of features I use in MC, are there any real compelling reasons for me to upgrade (besides the sale price)?

It's hard to tell from this forum all that has changed since v14 with all the information scattered in multiple threads.

vagskal · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2011, 03:52:27 am »

I too use MC only for tagging and organising music and do my playback on the Squeezeboxes. I started on v. 14 and always update as soon as I can.

The expression language has been extended with some very useful functions. And the wiki now has useful descriptions of almost all functions!

The database is faster. A recent update made switching between most categories views almost instant. Switching to a complex panes view is still rather slow for the impatient. I have not noticed any increased speed when saving to file tags.

You can now use split views (multiple views shown at the same time) which I find very handy when tagging.

The standard Mood tag is now supported. The Year/Date fields are handled better when writing to tags (but still no way of getting the full date from the stock date field written to a file tag). The handling of the album artist tag has changed in a way that could lead to confusion in SBS if you are using also other software for tagging, but as long as you use only MC everything is fine. The original release date tags (TYER/TDOR) that SBS uses are still not supported so you would need additional tagging software if you are using those. The MC field People is still not connected to the standard involved people list tag (IPLS).

No improvements on ripping (AccurateRip still not supported when doing secure rips) or meta data retrieval (apart from manually getting artist images from LastFM into a specific centralised folder) that I can remember. It is still not possible to show/handle multiple cover art in a useful way together with the music files, so I still have to manually find and open up my back cover scan in external software if I want to check the tagging.

I think I saw something about improvements/fixes regarding the handling of cue sheets, which I do not use.

Tagging with list style fields is much easier and more clever now! This enhancement came with the price of making it in my opinion more difficult to move between fields using only the keyboard, but it was well worth it.

Replay gain is still handled the same way as before in MC (so I have to use external software for that, but maybe you have adapted already to the MC way of doing RPG).

Copy and paste from web page tabs in MC has not been working for quite some time, so be prepared to now send your links to an external browser if you want to copy something to your tags.

I am sure I have forgotten many relevant improvements. Trying MC 17 out is probably the best way of finding out if you should upgrade. MC is in my opinion still the best music tagging and organising software out there, but depending on your needs you may have to use additional software.

It is still not possible to use MC as a useful front end for SBS playback. You can Send to your Squeezeboxes but then your lossless files will get transcoded and you will not see the info you are used to on your Squeezeboxes. If your SBS library is not too large you can import it via DLNA to MC but that will give you just basic info on the files so you cannot use all MC capabilities to sort and retrieve music for playback. This was with WhiteBear, but I suppose that the new Logitech Media Server works the same way.

Is your handling of the TrackStat data automated and, if so, how did you do that? I would love to import that data (and my LastFM statistics) to MC.

vagskal · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2011, 04:39:18 am »

Hmm, I can see now that I in my reply mention several things that MC cannot do yet. I would just like to point out the obvious: MC can do a LOT of things in a very useful and handy manner when it comes to tagging. That was the case already with MC 14 and with MC 17 the program is even more useful.

I also forgot to mention a couple of improvements.

Quick search icons next to the artist and album name. Make a split view with two views and open a new album that you are tagging in one view. Click on the little icon next to the artist name and you will in the second view see all music by that artist in your library. Very handy.

Relational fields. One field can now be made relational to either artist or album, i.e. the content of a field relational to artist will always be the same for all the entries for that artist.

Vincent Kars · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2011, 05:17:57 am »

Quote from: vagskal on November 13, 2011, 03:52:27 am

No improvements on ripping (AccurateRip still not supported when doing secure rips) or meta data retrieval (apart from manually getting artist images from LastFM into a specific centralised folder) that I can remember.

If I remember correctly, they added FreeDB.
But it is only used at ripping time.
Compared with MP3Tag, tagging support in JRiver remains poor.

MrC · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:46:52 am »

Quote from: vagskal on November 13, 2011, 03:52:27 am

It is still not possible to use MC as a useful front end for SBS playback. You can Send to your Squeezeboxes but then your lossless files will get transcoded and you will not see the info you are used to on your Squeezeboxes. If your SBS library is not too large you can import it via DLNA to MC but that will give you just basic info on the files so you cannot use all MC capabilities to sort and retrieve music for playback. This was with WhiteBear, but I suppose that the new Logitech Media Server works the same way.

FYI: I'm able to stream lossless flac's to my SBs via Whitebear using MC as the controller.

The only issue I see is that MC updates the play count incorrectly: it both updates Number Plays at start of playback, and at the end, and also if there is an error starting playback (e.g. when the music disc is in sleep/low power mode and does not spin up quickly enough; in the case, the track is skipped).

vagskal · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:51:32 am »

Quote from: MrC on November 13, 2011, 10:46:52 am

FYI: I'm able to stream lossless flac's to my SBs via Whitebear using MC as the controller.

Is this using the MC Send to command?

MrC · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2011, 10:56:13 am »

Yes, or by selecting an SB zone and initiating play. I don't use the method that requires switching libraries to the Whitebear/SB DLNA library.

vagskal · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2011, 11:51:14 am »

Now I cannot get any music to play on my Squeezeboxes from MC. My Squeexboxes show up under Playing Now as [SB player name] (by Whitebear) but MC reports a problem controlling the selected DLNA device. I am using SBS latest 7.6.2 and the latest Whitebear version with MC 17. MC runs on a Win 7 64 bit PC and SBS runs on a Win XP PC on the same local network. Only Windows firewall on both PCs and on the XP PC Whitebear is among the exceptions and on the Win 7 PC MC is among the exceptions; this must have been set automatically by the programs. MC is using files on a usb disc connected to the Win 7 PC and SBS is using an exact copy of the files from another usb disc connected to the Win XP PC. I could make MC see the same files as SBS with the exact same paths if necessary.

I see that there are some new settings in Whitebear for "JRiver Internet Reader". None of the options there are selected. Do I have to select something?

Any other idea?

I would love to be able to use MC as a front end for SBS playback.

(Sorry MeSue for hijacking your thread like this.)

MrC · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:11:40 pm »

[edit: updated SB version number to include build #]

SB 7.6.2-33593 here, Win 7 x64. MC 17. My SB and MC media files are one and the same. SB and MC run on the same system.

I don't have any options selected for the new JRiver Internet Reader.

For MC, under DLNA Servers, I have two servers, one runs for my SBs and one for our DLNA-capable satellite boxes. The first one listed is the SB server, and its set to Never Convert audio (Convert Audio: Never Convert). I believe that "bob" recently indicated the settings from the first server listed are used when audio is pushed to Whitebear.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67484.msg452999#msg452999
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67462.msg452947#msg452947

I found when I did not have my servers listed in this order, and mp3 stream was sent rather than a flac stream.

vagskal · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:45:49 pm »

Thanks for trying to help out.

I have only the stock "Generic DLNA" in the DLNA servers list. I chose Never convert and Encoder: Uncompressed for audio but that did not male any difference. I rebooted the PC running SBS but that did not help either.

I guess I will have to ask Andrew in the SBS forum. The Send to option worked for me before (but then flacs were transcoded), but the import of the SBS database into MC was painfully slow and never completed.

EDIT: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=669861#post669861

mesue · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2011, 01:09:56 pm »

Thanks for weighing in! It sounds like some of the tagging features are reason enough to upgrade, so I will probably take advantage of the sale. Do settings now carry over when upgrading versions, or did I imagine reaading that? When was that introduced? It has always been annoying to have to redo my settings after an upgrade.

You mentioned replay gain... I don't know if you know it, but MC's replay gain is supported by Squeezebox Server (now LMS), so you don't need external software unless you need it for some other players. I just use MC replaygain, and soundcheck in iTunes for my iPod.

Quote

Is your handling of the TrackStat data automated and, if so, how did you do that? I would love to import that data (and my LastFM statistics) to MC.

Yes, it's mostly automated. It's been a while since I set it all up and I dread ever having to set it up again. You need Trackstat and CustomScan for Squeezebox server. You set customscan to export statistics to iTunes. Then there is a Perl script Erland has posted somewhere that runs every night and updates iTunes with the Trackstat stats. Once a week or so, I run MC iTunes Synchronizer to send the stats to MC. I could automate this part, too, but I started having trouble with it running overnight and I just started doing it manually.

A couple times a year, my ratings get messed up and I have to redo them all. I also have my Trackstat stats exported to MusicIP via Customscan, so between Trackstat, Music IP, and iTunes, I can usually get my ratings back by creating a playlist for each rating and updating whichever program is messed up.

Syncing Last.FM stats would be nice, especially now that I am using more music services, but I don't know how to do it.

vagskal · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2011, 01:33:38 pm »

Quote from: mesue on November 13, 2011, 01:09:56 pm

It sounds like some of the tagging features are reason enough to upgrade

I think so. As Vincent pointed out, MP3Tag supports more file tags (and regex with global search and substitute; the regex feature is yet only half way implemented in MC), but one or two standard file tags are usually added in each version of MC. I am crossing my fingers for the SBS supported TYER tag for MC 17.

Quote from: mesue on November 13, 2011, 01:09:56 pm

Do settings now carry over when upgrading versions

Yes, at least from 16 to 17 it all went very smooth. If you use Theatre View you will, however, have to configure that again.

Quote from: mesue on November 13, 2011, 01:09:56 pm

Yes, it's mostly automated.

Thanks for the answer! I will have to look into that. Maybe I will have to ask you again for details.

The LastFM import was just a wish on my part. I think it will have to be implemented on the MC side first, by JRiver or through a plugin. I cannot see any way of doing the import on my own.

mesue · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2011, 05:03:26 pm »

Does anyone have a link to a new features summary for v15? I found it for 16, but would also like to know what was new in 15. Relational fields sounds like a great feature for bios!

MrC · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2011, 05:27:23 pm »

Here was a similar reply I posted a while back - took me a bit to find it.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65929.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56853.0

Alex B · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2011, 05:34:33 pm »

I don't know if a list of the new MC15 features still exists, but I have maintained the complete MC change logs since the version 11.1: http://mc-changelog.blogspot.com/ (This link goes to the MC16 change log. The links to the other versions are listed there.)

EDIT

MrC posted while I was writing my reply.

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2011, 06:21:32 pm »

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Upgrade_to_MC15

mesue · « **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2011, 09:07:04 pm »

Okay, I installed v16 and restored library and settings from v14. Most settings seem to have carried over, but right off the bat, I see I am missing my custom web links from most of my view schemes. Some view schemes have no web links, and those that do seem to only have a default set and none of my custom ones. Any easy way to get these back?

vagskal · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2011, 01:21:02 am »

Quote from: mesue on November 13, 2011, 01:09:56 pm

You mentioned replay gain... I don't know if you know it, but MC's replay gain is supported by Squeezebox Server (now LMS), so you don't need external software unless you need it for some other players. I just use MC replaygain, and soundcheck in iTunes for my iPod.

Yes, I know. Everything is fine as long as you use only files where MC has applied replay gain (RPG). But MC applies RPG values that are 6 dB off from the values all other software I know of produce. Since the whole point of RPG is to provide an even listening experience when switching tracks (that can come from different sources), I think that it is counter productive to go against the de facto standard in this respect (more here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=53196.msg363242#msg363242). I have come to realise that resistance is futile, so I just do not use MC for applying RPG and has set a fixed +6dB in MC for the few times I use MC for playback. (BTW that value did not carry over from the earlier version.)

As regards your links question, I have no other solution than to open MC 14 and MC 16 side by side and do a lot of copy and paste.

MC 17 beta seems stable for what we use it for, so I would go straight for that.

EDIT: Corrected the link.

Alex B · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2011, 02:34:52 am »

Quote from: vagskal on November 14, 2011, 01:21:02 am

But MC applies RPG values that are 6 dB off from the values all other software I know of produce.

This is not correct for many of the supported file formats. MC writes the replay gain values to FLAC, OGG Vorbis, MP3, M4A, WAV and AIFF files using the 89dB reference value and using the (de facto) standard tag format The difference to the internally used older "83 dB" standard is compensated on every tag read and write. On playback you can use any preferred adjustment to tweak the overall level without affecting the file tags (a playback adjustment of +6 dB would make the reference to be +89 dB).

The file formats that use APE tags (APE, Musepack, Wavpack) and WMA are still using the old 83 dB standard without compensation on tag writes or reads. Also the tag format is proprietary with these formats and no other players can use these tags. To Matt: It would be nice if these formats could be fixed similarly like the other formats.

vagskal · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2011, 06:40:36 am »

Thanks Alex for clarifying, and sorry for the misinformation in this regard. It was the Album Gain issue I really was after (explained in detail in the referenced thread so I will not repeat) and which is why I do not use MC for applying RPG.

vagskal · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2011, 12:10:36 pm »

Quote from: mesue on November 13, 2011, 01:09:56 pm

Yes, it's mostly automated. It's been a while since I set it all up and I dread ever having to set it up again. You need Trackstat and CustomScan for Squeezebox server. You set customscan to export statistics to iTunes. Then there is a Perl script Erland has posted somewhere that runs every night and updates iTunes with the Trackstat stats. Once a week or so, I run MC iTunes Synchronizer to send the stats to MC. I could automate this part, too, but I started having trouble with it running overnight and I just started doing it manually.

I am trying to look into this now, but it seems rather advanced. Just a couple of quick questions if you do not mind so I am not spending a lot of time on something that cannot be achieved: Is this working for you with flac files (since iTunes is involved)? Does this Perl script run under Win XP (I know Erland is a Linux guy)?

mesue · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2011, 12:19:19 pm »

I don''t know about FLAC files. I only have MP3. I don't know about XP, either... sorry. I run it under Win7. I had to install Perl for it.

There may be a better way to sync Trackstat stats with iTunes if LMS and iTunes are installed on the same machine. In my case they aren't.

vagskal · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2011, 12:34:33 pm »

Thanks for the quick reply!

I think I hold off on this complicated setup, because I do not think iTunes can handle flac files. Getting TrackStat data into MC for only some of my files would not satisfy me. I wish there was a way for MC to integrate with SBS. The urls for the music files are in the SBS SQLite database as well as the TrackStat play count and last played data. Other programs are letting me specify the base file path for my music in MC and SBS and are letting me sync trackstat data and pushing files through the SBS CLI for playback on my SB players.

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Author Topic: Any reasons for me to upgrade? (Read 4532 times)