Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[samtheman57]

I recently upgraded the MC software to 17, and simultaneously decided to go with my first USB DAC.

Based on the fantastic response from the CTO, I went with HRT Streamer II at a greatly reduced price on eBay.

The change in dynamics from my HT Omega Claro sound card to the USB DAC is like night and day, about that I have no regrets.

Then, I started to notice some very bad clicks and pops during audio playback, especially listening to 24/96 FLAC files.

I have to say that Kevin Halverson responded with helpful advice very quickly, I just don't know if I can say the issue is solved.

At this point, I will paste the correspondence I have had with Kevin Halverson in lieu of rewriting the entire story.

Message: Hello:

Just received a brand new HRT Streamer II.

Wondering if you had heard of an issue where there are clicks and or pops during playback?

It doesn't seem to occur constantly, just randomly.

The last incident I thought a speaker cone had blown the pop was so loud.

I Have read it could be due to the Streamer needing more power, a poor quality cable, but no definitive answer.

Don't know if it is a hardware, Windows, USB power or device issue.

Buffering is set to recommended maximum, I use J River Media Center 17.

On 11/13/2011 10:34 PM, Kevin Halverson wrote:

What driver model are you using with J River, Direct Stream, WASAPI, ASIO?  In general, you always want to use the smallest possible buffer size when using an asynchronous interface, if possible, eliminate any buffering is best.  The underlying reasoning is that with an asynchronous interface you want the host (computer) to respond to polled feedback values from the device as promptly as possible.  Adding buffering unnecessarily delays the hosts response and can result in either under or over runs.

Hi Kevin:

First, again, thanks for your timely response.

This started occurring a few hours after using the Streamer.

In J River Media Center 17, my driver model is WASAPI Event Style.

I used this driver model with no issues when I had the HT Claro sound card installed.

I first tried switching the USB cable to another port with no improvement.

As per your suggestion I picked up a self powered (not bus powered) hub.

So the streamer is now on its own exclusive, powered USB hub. I also swapped my RCA interconnects with the higher quality ones that arrived today.

BIG difference in the overall "smoothness" of the sound stage, some frequencies using the inferior RCA cables were quite harsh.

As per your suggestion, I tried first lowering the buffer size to "Minimum Hardware Size" (the lowest choice) which resulted in horrible playback, a sort of jittery, skittery sound.

(FYI: J Rivers default recommendation using WASAPI Event Style is 100 milliseconds buffering.)

I then increased to the next increment, 10 milliseconds, which was immediately smoother, but results, again, in hearing the clicking and popping noises.

The next increment up 25 milliseconds was smoother, but still the clicks could be heard but are diminishing.

Things seem to smooth out at 50 milliseconds. (One increment below the J River recommendation).

So far so good.

Then it became evident that another set of clicks kick in when I play 24/96 files. (Quiet part at the beginning of Yes's "Roundabout"

So I switched to WASAPI, and now I wonder if that was the issue all along.

J River has an entirely different set of options for this driver mode and setting buffering to the minimum yielded no bad effects.

Yet WASAPI Event style sounds much more robust.

At this point I don't have a definitive answer, I will have to see if the problem reoccurs in WASAPI.

Thanks

The underlying issue may be nothing more than a poor performing USB subsystem, specifically, the host's root hub.  You can try adding a self (not bus) powered USB 2.0 hub between the host and the device (Streamer in this case).  If you do try this, make certain that the Streamer is the only device attached to the hub regardless of the number of downstream ports the hub might have.

Please report back after trying these suggestions.

Kevin Halverson
CTO
High Resolution Technologies, LLC

Any other thoughts appreciated.

[DarkPenguin]

I actually went the reverse and added insane levels of buffering.

The bigger issue I had was power.  If I didn't keep my netbook plugged in it would eventually result in pure noise being output.  Yeeg!

The Halverson dude is pretty responsive...

[samtheman57]

Yeah so far, the popping and clicking playback issue is only present in WASAPI Event mode, Using WASAPI I haven't heard any problems.

Yet WASAPI Event (and this may be a trick of the ears or fatigue) sounds richer and more robust.

Yeah the clear thing KH states is that setting a high buffer tends to defeat the advantages/purpose of asynchronous USB.

Me, I am just falling deeper into the rabbit hole.

[DarkPenguin]

Okay, don't do the minimum.  Yeeg!

I had it set to 250 before.  It seems fine at 25.  I also switched to playback out of memory.

(Hmmmm....  looks like the Vikes are on their way to losing 56-0.  Assuming this continues.)

[samtheman57]

O.K.

Back to WASAPI Event Mode.

I'm convinced it sounds more robust.

I won't write this in stone,... ? but the issue seems, at this point to be with Windows Power schemes.

In Windows 7, I went to Control Panel> Power Options> and switched to High Performance from Balanced.

Also disabled power saving in BIOS.

In the advanced settings:

1) Turn Off Hard Disk set to NEVER

2) Wireless Adapter Maximum

3) Sleep After setting : Never

4) Hibernate : Never

5) Especially USB Suspend Never.

And generally anything where Windows might want to cut power to a device.

25 milliseconds buffer seems stable.

[samtheman57]

Just an FYI, or more accurately, FWIW:

Not an expert at resampling, but with all things MC and computer audio, I am trying to learn.

Yesterday I tried the option to manually set final audio output to resample any files lower than 96kHz to that frequency.

Any files (like my HD Tracks) at 96kHz I chose "No Change".

While I can't vouch for anything but subjective results, I feel the lower frequency files sound more robust.

But the weird thing is that the pop and click had completely disappeared.

I have switched between my CD to FLAC (now resampled) files and the HD Tracks files which almost always exhibited some popping and clicking, less since I got a powered USB hub.

But since using / choosing resampling, that issue is GONE, I can't duplicate it at all.

Happy with that, just can't explain it.

[samtheman57]

Just wrote Kevin Halverson at HRT, he says to try the firmware update for the Streamer II and avoid Sample Rate Conversion.

 

Guess I will try that.

Matt or Jim  mentioned in another thread that HDTracks are not "standard" FLAC files, can someone elaborate on that?

[JimH]

They are usually higher bit rate and sample rate.

There is no harm in resampling up or down.

Firmware updates are almost always good.