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Author Topic: Galaxy Nexus  (Read 3372 times)

glynor

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Galaxy Nexus
« on: November 18, 2011, 11:59:36 pm »

So... The Galaxy Nexus is the first Android phone they've released that I feel has enough polish at launch for me to consider it seriously for purchase.  My only remaining concerns are:

1. Battery life.  Josh Topolsky totally punted on the battery life part of his review.  That's really a travesty.  How can you publish an official review of a mobile device, with a "score" assigned, and leave out the one of the most important user experience features completely with only brief mentions?  It is baffling, and reeks a slight bit.

2. Platform lifespan.  When it comes time to replace my iPhone 4, I'll probably still pick another iPhone.  What I'll be looking at most closely is this, though:  My wife's 2 year and 5 month old iPhone 3GS was just updated to iOS 5 for free on the same day it came out for everything else (and the 5.01 bug fix patch also came out the same day as for the others).  They already announced that the Nexus One (1 year and 10 months old) won't get ICS.  And, we haven't seen ICS yet for the Nexus S (11 months old).

For number one, I'd need to see roughly 90% of what I get on my iPhone 4 (which tests better than what Apple publishes, but I'll give them 90% of what Apple quotes as a minimum target).

For number two, it has to be fully supported, with releases within a week-or-so from the new flagship, for the full two years of my contract or absolutely no sale (same day is obviously better, but I'll give them a handfull of days).

I sincerely doubt I'll see this.  But, for the first time, I'm really paying attention.

What does everyone else think?
It drives me nuts that the reviewers (who get new phones every 5 months) don't really even discuss these absolutely core issues at all, or only in passing, in their reviews.  Number two is the single most important feature of a smartphone platform in my opinion.  I'd never buy a contract on a computer if I couldn't trust I'd get bug fixes and support for the OS (even security fixes in many cases) for the duration of the contract.  It is completely unacceptable.
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glynor

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2011, 12:41:47 am »

By the way.... I'd really love to see some discussion.  These things honestly baffle me.

There are other things I don't like about the Galaxy Nexus (giant screen and separate email app for gmail vs exchange accounts, for example), but these are relatively minor things.  And, frankly, there are also a bunch of things like that that annoy me about my iPhone (iTunes sync only and the sometimes temperamental home button).

But those things seem so core to the function of the device to me that they are non-negotiable for me.  I feel like my iPhone has basically the minimum battery life I can really deal with for a device like this (and iPad-like battery life should really be the target).  No "flagship" Android phone I've seen with a reasonable form factor has matched it or even come close enough to call them "roughly equal".  And the platform stuff... Well, especially on a platform like Android with many more real-world malware problems, it seems like at-least security updates would be and even more important factor than on a "closed" ecosystem like iOS.

For those Android users out there, especially those of you poor souls on non-Nexus devices that generally have no hope of on-time (or ever) updates, I'd really like to hear your thoughts about this stuff.
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JimH

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2011, 07:24:47 am »

I've only seen that phone available in the UK.  Supposed to be coming soon at Verizon.  Where have you seen it?

This is the next "Google" phone and their site hasn't announced availablilty yet.

http://www.google.com/nexus/#

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5133/galaxy-nexus-ice-cream-sandwich-initial-performance

I plan to get one, so we'll probably support it.

And glynor, before you get another iphone, take a look at Gizmo.  It's amazing.  It will change your life.
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glynor

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2011, 09:27:04 am »

I've only seen that phone available in the UK.  Supposed to be coming soon at Verizon.  Where have you seen it?

It is basically a Verizon exclusive in the US until at least after the holidays.  The release date on Verizon keeps seeming to slip.  In the reports that all came out when Google "launched" the device a few weeks back, it was supposed to be 11/17.  That obviously didn't happen, but it seems like this was probably the plan, because that's when all the embargoed reviews all came out.

It seems to be slipping later and later.  I wonder if they're having production problems?

Either way, today's rumors are Dec 8th:
http://androidcommunity.com/latest-rumor-galaxy-nexus-launch-date-pushed-back-to-december-8th-20111118/
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park

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Re: Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 11:41:43 pm »

I agree that updates should be more forthcoming, but consider the openness of the platform. Many companies offer easy ways to get root access to their own hardware, allowing users to update the os even when official support ends.

Also look at Adobe. If you bought CS5 then support for it essentially stopped 6 months after the purchase as they moved their focus to CS5.5. When Lion came out it had multiple incompatibilities with CS5, but Adobe wouldn't  give any support since they had just released CS5. 5.

The freedom you get from Android easily outweighs the work you have to do to stay up to date.

The battery life issue is a problem though. On my Htc desire hd I have to turn off wifi, and gps to get a full days use out of the phone. Luckily I'm in the office most of the time so I just leave it plugged in. Or I carry a rechargeable lithium usb battery with me to charge the phone while I'm out if needs be. You can also buy bigger capacity batteries with new phone back panels. They make the phone a bit chunkier, but make a real difference to battery life.

The large screen is amazing. You can never go back after using one. I don't have massive hands, but even I still prefer it.

Gizmo is amazing. Better than google music simply because you have your home made views to navigate music how you want. We really need to see it reach near feature parity with library server clients over the next year though. I think that this is going to be the period when android tablets really start to take off, and MC needs to be there really utilizing the extra screen space by allowing tagging, showing more info about the files, and allowing sharing of what's in playing now. This will firmly plant MC as a multi-platform piece of software, possibly put it in first place as a media app if google tv ever takes off, expand awareness of MC to customers who may not have heard of it, and also make the android tablet os itself to become more desirable to everyone.
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glynor

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Re: Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2011, 11:55:59 pm »

Also look at Adobe. If you bought CS5 then support for it essentially stopped 6 months after the purchase as they moved their focus to CS5.5. When Lion came out it had multiple incompatibilities with CS5, but Adobe wouldn't  give any support since they had just released CS5. 5.

Good!  A comment!  Thanks!  ;D

That's just the thing...  Adobe CS is a perfect example.

You don't buy a two-year contract on Adobe CS5.  Actually, I do (we have Adobe's Cumulative Licensing Program (CLP) for Creative Suite at my office, which is a two-year maintenance contract for their software), and guess what?

I get the updates.  I got CS 5.5 for "free", because we were still under our Maintenance Agreement when it came out.

Even if you don't buy the contract, you also get a number of patches from Adobe and (seemingly constant) security fixes, even long after the next "major version" comes out.  You get them at the same time as everyone else, and you get them for all of your computers.

Android phones are just the opposite.

You DO have to buy a contract.  Or, I should say, everyone in the United States does, in practice, because (1) you often have to wait a long time post-launch to buy a "contract free" phone and (2) the contract free phones are still carrier-locked and you get no discount on your monthly bill so there is absolutely no advantage to this other than you don't have an ETF hanging over your head.  If you do this to avoid the ETF, you're usually screwing yourself because the difference in price between the subsidized phone plus the ETF and the contract-free phone is usually in favor of the former, not the latter.  You're better off buying the contract and then breaking it and paying the fee.

And then you don't have service on your device.  So, it would only help in theory if you want to switch carriers, but you can't switch carriers and keep your phone, because the phones are carrier locked in many cases (or physically different), and even if you do manage to switch and keep your old phone:  You still have to pay for the same priced plan as everyone else, so what did that whole charade just gain you?

So, you have a contract, but you DON'T get updates for the course of the contract period.  Many Android phones haven't even ever gotten one update, and basically none have Apple's record.  HTC left that terrible security vulnerability unpatched on tons of their phones for a long time (imagine the screams had it been Apple?), and some of them still probably aren't fixed if they're "too old".  Besides, it doesn't much matter if you "should" get support.  The competition's phones are killing it, and they do it.  Say what you want about overall Android market share, the iPhone is still the top selling handset at three of the four major carriers (every one where it is carried) in the US right now, and probably will be throughout a good hunk of 2012.  And that 2 year and 5 month old iPhone 3GS?  In the top 3 at AT&T...

Also, regarding the rest: I reject any suggestion that a user hacking the firmware is appropriate for a cell phone in general, but certainly not for the mass market.  This means that the vast majority of people just never get the updates, ever.

Hacking a phone with firmware provided by "some dude on a forum" is a good way to get your identity stolen.  No thanks.  That's the same as Jailbreaking an iPhone, and if that's the standard, then the iPhone is just as open as the Android phones, and Cydia is a huge marketplace.  Oh, and to my knowledge, only HTC has committed to not locking down their phones against third-party ROMs, and even that doesn't apply to most of their phones already in the market.  Has that changed recently?

A smartphone is a computer.  I don't really even use the "phone" feature of my phone very often.  It is one of many features.  It is a computing platform, not a "phone".  If Google wants it treated like a platform on commodity hardware, then they need to support it like a platform on commodity hardware, and release builds directly.  Make the vendors abstract the hardware using a HAL if it is hard.  We've been doing it with PCs for a bazillion years.  It also has real, serious, implications for the software development community, which is why the Android Market has always had trouble attracting non-free, high-quality, 3rd party Apps.  And now we get the Tegra Zone nonsense (now with new non-compatible Tegra3 games coming, adding to the insanity)?

For vendors that DON'T have the Google-certified apps (where Google has no control), then fine.  That's on those vendors, and they should be ashamed of themselves if they don't support their devices.  If they just downloaded the source code and slapped it on their hardware without Google's blessing, then there is nothing to be done but to blame the handset maker.  But for the ones with the GMail app and the Google Market and Google Maps (you know, the ones that sell, not the so-called "open" ones)?

That's Google's fault.  They don't care enough to fix it, and the handset makers certainly don't care and don't have the resources or design chops to do it right.
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glynor

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Re: Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 12:28:13 am »

The large screen is amazing. You can never go back after using one. I don't have massive hands, but even I still prefer it.

By the way, I totally disagree.

I should clarify:  I HAVE used a large number of different Android devices.  I've tested them.  I even bought one to try out myself for a while and returned it under the 30 days.  And I've been able to use a few different "tester phones" we have at work of varying models (including the Galaxy S and the Nexus S) for a few days.

I can see how some people like it.  And it REALLY helps Android (pre-ICS, hopefully) because the UI isn't very good small.  So, blowing everything up makes the otherwise fiddly targets easier to hit.  But compared to the 3.5" screen on the iPhone 4?  Meh.  I really don't like the super-saturated Pentile Matrix SuperAMOLED screens.  The nice LCD ones up to about 3.7-3.8 inches are okay, but above that they start feeling "big" in my pocket.  Anything over 4" feels like a jumbo jitterbug phone for old people to me.

But, I can see how some people might like it.  For them, I'm glad there are choices.  But I don't agree that for cell phone displays bigger = better.  Often, for me, bigger = worse.

But, that's why I listed that as something I could look past.  It is something that could go either way depending on the user, I personally feel that way, but not so strongly that I'd rule a device out as a contender just because it has a big display.  I'd just rather it be a nicer, smaller, denser display given the choice, so long as it is equally usable.  But, like I said, there are fiddly bits about the iPhone that I don't prefer as well.  That's the same to me as being stuck with iTunes to sync my phone.  I hardly ever do it, honestly, and now that it is Wireless it really doesn't bother me that much when I do.

So, that I could get past.  But the updates thing (which causes the fragmentation thing) and the battery thing I don't think I could.

I never turn anything on or off on my iPhone 4 to conserve battery.  I turn off Bluetooth because I NEVER use it.  If I used it, even occasionally, I'd just leave it turned on.  It lasts the whole day either way, but why have it on and running and wasting power if I've never used it even once?  So, I switch it off.

Other than that, and tweaking the brightness occasionally, I leave all the "power stuff" on my iPhone at the defaults.  If I go on a long trip where I'll only be using it intermittently and I'll be away from a power source for more than a day (like camping) I put it in Airplane Mode when I'm not using it, and then it lasts for a long time (usually 3-4 days if I'm judicious).
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glynor

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 12:30:01 am »

I also think I WILL be getting a Galaxy Nexus from Verizon a while after they come out, when the pricing calms a bit, intending to return it.  It looks interesting enough that I want to play with one.
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park

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Re: Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 03:20:20 am »

You make good points glynor, but for me the following apps make android such a pleasure to use that despite its' flaws, I've never once regretted retiring my iphone:

Google reader
Google maps
Google listen
Firefox
SwiftKey keyboard
Mobo video player (plays my mkvs with subtitles)
Gizmo
Evernote (seems to get new features months before ios)
Google talk
Google+ (sucks up all my phone's photos automatically)
Home screen widgets
PlayerPro (for offline music)

Maybe the iphone has got better but when I was on it many of the apps didn't tie in with the google services that I depend on very well, and some features such as the keyboard and media players were totally off limits to developers.

People talk about fragmentation, and lack of apps inches market but I've always found android to provide better choices for the things I want to do than ios was ever able to do.

Well have to see how the agreement that google made with its hardware partners for prompt updates plays out. Lets see howvmany phones released since August get the ICS update, and within what kind of timeframe.
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JimH

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2011, 06:52:48 am »

... above that they start feeling "big" in my pocket.  Anything over 4" feels like a jumbo jitterbug phone for old people ...
Hey!
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drmimosa

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 09:19:19 am »

You make good points glynor, but for me the following apps make android such a pleasure to use that despite its' flaws, I've never once regretted retiring my iphone:

Google reader
...
PlayerPro (for offline music)


First I'd like to add Google Navigate to this list, this app transforms Google maps into a Garmin-Style GPS view. I may be wrong but I haven't seen anything like it on the iphone, which is a deal-breaker for me. I use it all the time, with a car-mount it replaces a top-line commercial GPS unit.

I purchased a T-Mobile G2 without a contract one year ago, at the time T-Mobile offered a twenty dollar/ month discount for non-contract plans. Over two years this was a better deal at the time than a discounted phone and T-Mobile also offered un-throttled 4g up to 4gb. All this has changed now, but constant flux is the norm for cell phone contracts. As an added bonus, the Wi-Fi hotspot function worked on arrival with no extra charge. I use it all the time, but I may have ducked a monthly charge somehow. In any case I didn't ask too many questions!

An upgrade from Android OS 2.2 to 2.3 was offered in August, about six months after this OS was released in Beta. Not exactly prompt support, but we did receive an update. It wasn't a major change in the OS; several bugs in Bluetooth Audio were solved, as well maybe 15 percent longer battery life from power management improvements.

Battery life is OK, but it doesn't sound as good as what you describe for iPhone4. Sometimes an app will get stuck and drain power quickly over the course of a couple of hours, frustrating if you haven't been paying attention. Other than that, I can get a full day of use out of the machine but need to have a charger handy just in case.

For me, the biggest appeal to the Android platform is the way that apps can access phone system functions. Apps like Tasker allow you to actually use the device as a computer, for example it can turn Bluetooth on when you enter your car and start moving. I also use an alarm app that automatically goes into airplane mode at night. I don't think this type of system-level access is possible in iOS.

JRiver integration is a big deal, but it looks like Gizmo may be on the way in the future for iOS (c.f. "where we are going" on the MC 17 board).

However, there are a LOT of bad apps in Android. Gaming apps are way behind, there is nothing equivalent to Chess With Friends or Words with Friends on iOS.

I think your points are good about the frustrations of fragmentation and piecemeal hardware support. But that said, with the right phone and right contract/plan the Android platform itself has been great. Apple, no surprise, makes for a simpler choice; they make all the hardware decisions for you, all you have to do is shop for a contact/plan.

Anyway, just food for thought and discussion. Glynor, thanks for the interesting post.
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glynor

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2011, 03:59:56 pm »

Again, thanks for all the comments!  Like I said originally, I'm not really interested in convincing anyone, I just wanted to see what people think about these issues.

It seems so far that you basically are saying "Yes, those things are bad, but look at all the shiny over here!"  I can get with that.  Some things are more important to some people than others.  Again, that's why choice is good.

I just wish Google would fix it...

First I'd like to add Google Navigate to this list, this app transforms Google maps into a Garmin-Style GPS view. I may be wrong but I haven't seen anything like it on the iphone, which is a deal-breaker for me. I use it all the time, with a car-mount it replaces a top-line commercial GPS unit.

I tried Google Navigate in one of my tests and I really didn't like it.  That might be tempered by the fact that I'm in a relatively rural area.  I drive through No Cell Service areas every single day on my way to and from work.  The places where I often need a GPS application (such as up in the TRs) there is absolutely no cell service.  I know I can pre-cache the map data, but what a pain...  I want it to work like a Garmin.  I don't want to have to think about it.

And, Navigon Mobile Navigator is just that.  You can get it with maps for all of the US & Canada loaded, Mexico, Europe, Saudi Arabia, and all sorts of other places.  It works better than the Tom Toms and Garmins I've used, has more features, and is constantly updated with new map data totally free.  I bought it three or four years ago now, and I've been extremely satisfied.  Best thing?  Since I have an iPhone and my wife has her own, we only needed to buy the App once and now we both have very nice GPS devices for a very cheap price (I think I paid $60 way back when).

There are now lots of other turn-by-turn GPS applications for iOS, some free (they usually require active cell connections) and many professional-quality paid ones, including TomTom and Navigon (now owned by Garmin because they bet against smartphones and lost and had to buy Navigon).

PS.  Navigon is now available for Android as well.  If you are looking for a high-quality GPS app, I'd suggest you check it out.
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glynor

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2011, 04:15:56 pm »

For me, the biggest appeal to the Android platform is the way that apps can access phone system functions. Apps like Tasker allow you to actually use the device as a computer, for example it can turn Bluetooth on when you enter your car and start moving. I also use an alarm app that automatically goes into airplane mode at night. I don't think this type of system-level access is possible in iOS.

While they've loosened some of the original rules (apps can set brightness directly now, for example) this is still basically true.  Now, there are some cool new things you can do with iOS 5, including create homescreen icons that swap settings directly (so you can have a single button that enables/disables Airplane mode right on your homescreen, for example).

But... I agree.  This is one of the things that I both like and dislike about iOS.  I like it because I'm protected from apps that would do harm by switching settings around behind my back to do nefarious (or just stupid) things.  Plus, there is a consistency to it that you don't get on Android.  I always know HOW to do something because the system is controlled.

But, there are a couple of things that this would enable that could be cool...  I've never wanted anything like this badly enough to Jailbreak, but... The freedom would be nice.  I just think that sometimes, freedom isn't free, but people ignore what they're "paying" for it.  One thing you're paying for it with is your battery.  Another way you're paying is the proliferation of malware on the Android Market.

PS. One thing I find mildly amusing about many posts about "advantages" of Android from people, including yours to a small degree, is that they highlight other issues with Android.  For example:

Apps like Tasker allow you to actually use the device as a computer, for example it can turn Bluetooth on when you enter your car and start moving. I also use an alarm app that automatically goes into airplane mode at night. I don't think this type of system-level access is possible in iOS.

Both things you listed that you use this app for are things obviously designed to conserve precious battery life, but which you had to set up manually.  One could certainly argue that if the battery life was better managed by the OS (which would require more "closing" of the ecosystem), then you wouldn't need to do those things in the first place.  I don't need to worry about automatically switching Bluetooth on and off when I get in and out of my car, because if my car had a bluetooth stereo (it doesn't, it has an iPhone compatible USB plug), I'd just turn it on and leave it on forever.  Sure, it might cost me 2-3% battery life, but iOS manages it so well that I'd hardly notice.

On the other hand, I'd love a good dig app for iOS, and there aren't really any.  (Frankly, I'd like a good terminal app that could run basic UNIX networking commands to test my network at home and do other things like that.)
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glynor

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2011, 04:30:16 pm »

Hey!

That totally wasn't directed at you.  Not at all, Jim.

 ;) ;D
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drmimosa

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2011, 10:14:05 am »

I tried Google Navigate in one of my tests and I really didn't like it.  That might be tempered by the fact that I'm in a relatively rural area.  I drive through No Cell Service areas every single day on my way to and from work.  
...
PS.  Navigon is now available for Android as well.  If you are looking for a high-quality GPS app, I'd suggest you check it out.

That's the thing...Google definitely needs the internet! Navigator is a great app if you never leave coverage. Actually, this could point to another big problem with the Android platform: without internet access, you are basically stuck with a palm pilot ;). On the east coast it's fine, the DC/Baltimore area has great 4g access. But the minute it drops, you need dedicated apps that don't depend on high bandwidth. I am guessing iOS has more of these with a better interface.

Thanks for the Navigon rec, I'll check that out!

PS. One thing I find mildly amusing about many posts about "advantages" of Android from people, including yours to a small degree, is that they highlight other issues with Android.  For example:

Both things you listed that you use this app for are things obviously designed to conserve precious battery life, but which you had to set up manually.  One could certainly argue that if the battery life was better managed by the OS (which would require more "closing" of the ecosystem), then you wouldn't need to do those things in the first place.  I don't need to worry about automatically switching Bluetooth on and off when I get in and out of my car, because if my car had a bluetooth stereo (it doesn't, it has an iPhone compatible USB plug), I'd just turn it on and leave it on forever.  Sure, it might cost me 2-3% battery life, but iOS manages it so well that I'd hardly notice.

Ha, good point! Since Android apps and OS processes just sip power unnecessarily, therefore powerful apps like Tasker are just used to dig around the problems inherent in the OS. I've also got a task killer on hand, but again it would be better not to need one in the first place!

Cheers, and happy thanksgiving!
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ubernode54

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 09:03:07 am »

Bump  ;)

I have said device, a maguro running codename android rom etc....

Gizmo works great! Only request I'd have for that (haven't begun searching for it yet) would be to save files on my device from the server using Gizmo, kinda like Subsonic does ;)

So back to the Galaxy Nexus... When I connect it, Media Center 17.0.91 sees it as a Galaxy I7500. Is this okay? Should I be able to continue configuring it like any other device?
edit... Found the 'Identify' thread.

Thanks a bunch! Keep up the awesome work!

Steve
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DrWhom

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Re: Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 10:03:28 am »

Bump  ;)

I have said device, a maguro running codename android rom etc....

Gizmo works great! Only request I'd have for that (haven't begun searching for it yet) would be to save files on my device from the server using Gizmo, kinda like Subsonic does ;)

So back to the Galaxy Nexus... When I connect it, Media Center 17.0.91 sees it as a Galaxy I7500. Is this okay? Should I be able to continue configuring it like any other device?
edit... Found the 'Identify' thread.

Thanks a bunch! Keep up the awesome work!

Steve

Do you have audio sync issues when watching videos with Gizmo?
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