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[JustinChase]

Whenever I have MC running, the monitor just goes black for a few seconds, then when it comes back, I see the "PC" label my receiver displays when I change input.  This makes me think it's a HDMI handshake issue.  It started about 6 weeks ago, before I installed MC17.

I've thought its a problem with my HDMI cable, and intend on replacing it, but havent' done so yet.

It only happens when MC is running, even if I'm not doing anything with MC at the time.  I'm not sure it's a MC problem, but it's 'related' enough that I thought I'd mention it, in case anyone else is seeing anything similar.

[BryanC]

This happens to me when I change inputs to my HTPC over HDMI. It will show Theater View for a second, drop-out for about 5 seconds, and then reappear.

[glynor]

Occasionally, when I'm watching a show and I hit Pause, my screen IMMEDIATELY goes black rather than showing the "frozen" video on the screen.  When I hit Play again, the screen immediately lights back up.  If I hit any other keys or wiggle the mouse, it'll also wake up and show the video content there paused/frozen as it should have initially.  In my case, it happens only when:

A. I'm watching a video in Display View for a "long while" and then I hit pause.
B. I have Windows set to sleep the Display (or some sort of Screen Saver setting).

So... I think what is happening is this:

While the video is playing, MC is "blocking" the Screen Saver/Sleep from activating.  However, Windows "remembers" that the timer has expired and is trying to sleep the display.  When I hit "Pause" in MC, the "Don't Sleep the Display" mechanism in MC becomes inactive, and Windows immediately puts it to sleep.  Then, when I unpause or move the mouse or whatever, it lights it back up.

I keep the "don't sleep" setting for Theater View in MC disabled because otherwise I get image retention problems on my Plasma when I play Audio back in Theater View.  This is annoying for other reasons, so I might resurrect an old topic on this subject.  But, if you have that option enabled for Theater View, I bet the same thing would happen there.

[JustinChase]

I'm going away for the week, but when I get back, I'll try to track down any common circumstances that cause this on my system, and see if that helps point towards anyting specific.

I can say that I notice this mostly just after I start MC, not after it's been running awhile, but also then, but not exclusively.

I will also pick up a 1.4 HDMI cable, to eliminate that as a possibility.  My current cable was a discount bin purchase from Fry's, so not likely a "quality" cable in the first place.

[JustinChase]

I bought 2 new HDMI 1.4 w/ethernet cables (1 to AVR, 1 to TV), but haven't installed them yet.  Instead, I updated LAV video and madVR, and haven't seen this issue again in a couple hours of use yesterday.  I'm only adding LAV video to the filters in RO HQ, so I'm sure the newest madVR I installed wasn't what "fixed" it.

I do still get a 1-5 second black screen when starting a video, but I believe this is by design in madVR, to allow the buffer/cache to be created, and it's not so bad.

Anyway, I'll report back again if the issue returns, and if the cables don't fix it.

[JustinChase]

Last night I cut the commercials out of some TV files that had recorded last week, and saved them as new files to their new homes.  I probably did 20 shows.  I then opened MC and started watching something else, with the video in a detached display.  I was going in and finding/tagging the new videos and the screen kept going black for 2-3 seconds at a time, sometimes 5 or 6 times in a 30 second period, then it would stop for awhile.  I'd go to a new window for tagging and it would happen again.

I've come to the conclusion that it very much feels like it's the thumbnail creation that is causing this issue.  Once all the new files had finished being imported and tagged and thumbnails created, the black screens stopped and watching TV was fine for the next hour or so.

Anything I can specifically test to verify my suspicions?

[glynor]

What video playback mode are you using?

Does it still happen in ROST?

[JustinChase]

What video playback mode are you using?

Does it still happen in ROST?

ROHQ w/LAV Video added, I'll remove the new files from the library and rename them and try again tonight with ROST.

I'll try to remember to turn on logging also before I do

[JustinChase]

Okay, I replaced both HDMI cables with new 1.4 cables, updated to the very latest version of MC17, and I'm still seeing the problem.

I'm 90% sure it's to do with building thumbnails in the background.  I moved over 300 files to a new location, and when I opened MC, the entire screen goes black for 1-3 seconds, then comes back, displays the "PC" from the AVR, then went black again, it happened ever few seconds for about 10 minutes, then I turned off the monitor and went to bed.

Tonight, it happened again when I restarted MC, but only a few times, but I only had a few new files recently imported during the day.  While watching some video tonight, it happened a few times, I think it happened every time after commercial skipping finished, and the new file was imported in the background.

Any ideas what I can do to isolate & eliminate this very annoying problem?

I don't think it's to do with my server, since I'm not seeing it on my desktop, which has the same card, but not thru an AVR.

MC17 => nVidia 550Ti => Yamaha RX-V867 => Mitsubishi WD-73C9

[JustinChase]

I was just watching a video on the desktop in a detached window and when I looked at a newly imported file, the video basically stopped for several seconds, then the thumbnail changed and the video resumed smooth playback.

[MrHaugen]

I also have some dropouts over HDMI, but I'm not sure what is the cause yet. It's been happening when I watch video for a long time, and it can happen in the middle of play. I use RO Std. Sometimes, the picture does not come back. Have to put it to sleep, and turn it back on for the image to appear again.

[glynor]

Justin, did you try switching to ROST as a test?  I'm just wondering if it is something to do with how Red October is being used to generate those Thumbs, that might be related to using LAV with madVR or something like that.  Also, make sure you are on the latest build of MC and disable GPU acceleration in MC's Video options.

If that doesn't help, a few tips (for both of you):

1. Try disabling S3 sleep in the computer's BIOS (usually you can switch it to S1).  I have actually seen a nearly identical issue to Mr. Haugen's description on my own HTPC with S3 sleep enabled in the BIOS.  You may also need to disable Hybrid Sleep in Windows 7's Power Management Control Panel (this should happen automatically, but some computers are dumb).  This seems to be caused by a weird motherboard/GPU compatibility issue, that doesn't always appear depending on what specific video card and motherboard combo you have installed.  If you can't find a S1/S3 switch in the BIOS, check for Hybrid Sleep in the W7 Power Control Panel and turn it off.

If this helps, and you want to get Hybrid Sleep/S3 Sleep back, try updating your motherboard's BIOS to the latest version.  I had to disable it on my HTPC a long time ago, but eventually a BIOS version came out that solved it.  And, yes, I'd see the issue occur even mid-playback.  It was something to do with the Windows sleep trigger, not with it actually sleeping.

2. Try updating your video card drivers.  This is particularly likely to help with JustinChase's issue, but it is worth checking for MrHaugen's issue too.

3. Try updating the firmware on your TV.  I've seen MANY issues with HDTVs (and modern projectors) be resolved with Firmware updates.  Many modern models are easy to update.  For example, on my Panasonic and Samsungs, you just copy the firmware file downloaded from their website onto a USB Flash drive and plug the drive into the side of the TV, and then it'll detect it and prompt you to install the update.  Older TVs (particularly Mitsubishi sets) were a pain in the butt and usually required a service tech to come to your house.  In some cases, if you call customer support, they can lead you to a special website where you can download the updates that aren't advertised on their regular support website.  Just call and ask if a firmware update is available for your set.

4. If you are using any kind of funky refresh rates (like 24 Hz for movies) on your monitor, try turning that off and using the defaults.  I've seen plenty of HDTVs that "support" particular refresh rates, but which flake out much more often when using them than they do with the "standard" (60 or 50 depending on your zone) refresh.  Sometimes, updating the firmware can make these problems go away (I've seen this personally with a Sony we had at work that would flake out at 24 Hz, and was totally solved after a firmware update).

[JustinChase]

Justin, did you try switching to ROST as a test?

Sorry, forgot to mention that i did try this, before posting the recent posts, but it's no better

I just stopped home for a quick lunch, so I don't have time to try everything now, but quickly....

I updated the firmware on the TV about 4-6 weeks ago, but it was to try to fix this, and it didn't work/help.

I think I have the latest beta driver (as of about 2 weeks ago) on the HTPC, but don't have time to turn it on to check right now.  I did just check my desktop, which uses the same card, but doesn't have the problem, and it's using an nVidia driver from 11/7, shown in device manager as 8.17.12.8579, I think the HTPC is using the same one.

I think I do have it set for S3 sleep currently, so will try changing that also this evening (after I get control back from the wife )

I tried messing with refresh rates a while back, but ended up turning it all off since it didn't always return my desktop to the underscan I have to set because Mitsubishi is stupid and overscans every input and setting on this TV. I'm going to call them one of these days; what's the point of offering me a "PC" input, then overscanning it?!?!?

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll try to systematically test later this evening, but without new files importing, its hard to test, so we'll see how it goes.

[JustinChase]

turning hardware acceleration didn't change anything.

However, resetting the power settings (which I had previously modified) to the default settings seems to have resolved this for me.  I can't imagine how/why this would affect video during playback, but I watched a couple of shows since and have not seen the video going black since, so I'm hoping it's 'fixed' now.  I tested both RO and ROHQ, and so far, so good

I didn't change the sleep settings in the BIOS, just the power settings from the control panel.

Thanks Glynor!!!  I don't think I would have thought to try that without your suggestions.

[glynor]

However, resetting the power settings (which I had previously modified) to the default settings seems to have resolved this for me.

Wow!  I'm very surprised too.  I mainly mentioned that power management stuff for MrHaugen, not you.  I figured it could be related, but I was skeptical.  I'm honestly glad MrHaugen chimed in because had he not mentioned his problem (which was very similar to my old Sleep/Power Management related HTPC issue), I'd have never thought to mention that stuff at all.

I was pretty convinced it was video card drivers for you, or some kind of funky Red October software bug that doesn't impact most people.  Perhaps it was some setting in the Multimedia settings section of Power Options?  Or perhaps PCI Express power savings settings?  I'm thinking that Windows was limiting your GPU or CPU power somehow, and so when MC was doing both thumbnailing AND trying to play video back simultaneously, it would freak out and run out of "juice" and have to drop something.

Well, in any case, hopefully the problem stays resolved!  Let us know if it comes back.  And, this is certainly one for the Weird and Wonderful thread (which should probably be moved over to the MC17 board too, Jim).

[JustinChase]

Wow!  I'm very surprised too. 
I'm thinking that Windows was limiting your GPU or CPU power somehow, and so when MC was doing both thumbnailing AND trying to play video back simultaneously, it would freak out and run out of "juice" and have to drop something.

you and me both 

I was actually pretty dispondent last night, since it occurred constantly for an entire episode.  Sound played fine, but every second or 2 the screen went black for 3 seconds, non-stop for 25 minutes.  I played a different program, no problems, played the first one again, same problem returned, but any new files had long since finished processing, so I had given up on thumbnailing as a cause, and was out of ideas.

I then reset the power settings, and the same problem episode played fine for 10 minutes with no problems.

I have the media info for both files (both MKV), as well as the filter graphs, but since it's been okay, I didn't bother posting them.

I'm still a bit reluctant to say it's "fixed" since I only have the 10-15 mintues of testing as confirmation, but it seems pretty strong evidence.  If it comes back, I'll post the media/filter info and keep trying to isolate the cause.  Or, maybe I'll just nuke/pave again.

Either way, I'll happily continue to be shocked that this change fixed it, as long as it stays fixed.

Thanks again for your help.

[MrHaugen]

Thanks Glynor. I'll check out the solutions later on. Been on a seminar and had limited time to read all of this. Glad my related problems helped you on the right path

[JustinChase]

Anyone in central Texas that wants to swing by and shoot me is welcome

Screen still goes black, constantly when I open MC for the first time, not at all for a video or 2, then intermittently from then on.  I tried changing options, having MC windowed or not, ROST, ROHQ, EVR, madVR, nothing seems to matter.

The only thing I can maybe pin it on at this point is comskip running in the background, but that's not always the case when I stop the video and look at the task manager, but twice it was.  It's so intermittent that I can't reliably test anything.

I'm downloading the latest beta nVidia driver, but I don't hold out much hope.  If that doesn't fix it.  I'm giving up, and will just not enjoy MC on the 73" TV any longer.

Maybe one day next year I'll have the energy to nuke/pave that machine for the 4th time in 9 months, but I doubt it.

Oh well.  As they say, life if full of disappointment 

[jmone]

Could it be a failing PS that is having trouble keeping up enough juice to the GPU at times when under load?

[JustinChase]

Could it be a failing PS that is having trouble keeping up enough juice to the GPU at times when under load?

anything's possible, but not likely.  My PS is only a couple of months old, 550W single rail, so it should be okay, i think...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207013

The XFX Core Edition PRO550W (P1-550S-XXB9) is capable of delivering 550W of continuous output even at well above standard operating conditions such as 50°C. Single, high-power +12V rail with EasyRail technology providing up to 44A ensures the maximum compatibility and provision of 12V power to multi-core CPUs and energy-hungry graphics cards. Stack numerous power-hungry components without fear of crashing!

I've updated to the latest beta nVidia drivers, and the latest MC, and will do some more testing later today.

If I still have issues, I'll remove my commercial skipping setup and see if that helps.  If that doesn't help, I'm really out of ideas

Thanks again for the suggestion.

[glynor]

Any ideas what I can do to isolate & eliminate this very annoying problem?

I don't think it's to do with my server, since I'm not seeing it on my desktop, which has the same card, but not thru an AVR.

MC17 => nVidia 550Ti => Yamaha RX-V867 => Mitsubishi WD-73C9

Can you, just as a test, move the Desktop machine and hook it up to the Yamaha?

That'll tell us if it is either: (a) the PC itself, or (b) something "downstream".  If the "known good" Desktop still "blacks" too, then we know it is something separate from the server machine.

If it doesn't, then it might be nice to test the server machine with another, simple display (if you have a monitor you can drag out).

That'll tell us if it is worth trying things like swapping PSUs or video cards.

[AndyCircuit]

By coincidence I had a similar problem today with a customer:
Relocated computer and replaced the VGA cable with a HDMI ethernet (1.4) HQ cable 10m (30ft)
Monitor: 27" native 1920x1200, just Windows, no media

Monitor went on but some "stripes" of the standard windows wallpaper got an aura of colored pixels, then the monitor went off and on again and again
Checked connections etc but no luck
Suspected HF problems and changed resoultion to 1920x1080 et voila: stable monitor without aura
I'd suggest you to set resolution to the next lower settings for a test and if your problems go away look for a even better cable

[JustinChase]

Could it be a failing PS that is having trouble keeping up enough juice to the GPU at times when under load?

I finally noticed this problem with MC not running, so I think it must be a video card/power supply problem after all.

I just got back to town last night, so I'll take the box apart tonight and confirm the card is seated properly and that it's getting a good power supply connection.

nVidia drivers have been a bit of a nightmare, so I think that might actually be the problem, but I'll test what I can.

fun stuff!!!

[glynor]

nVidia drivers have been a bit of a nightmare, so I think that might actually be the problem, but I'll test what I can.

That's always been my experience with them too, which is why I have a slight preference for AMD/ATI cards.  ATI used to have a nightmarish driver problem way back in the "bad old days" and people always quote it as if it is still true.  There are particular builds that are bad, of course, but mostly I've had little issue installing or uninstalling AMD drivers for the past few years (no need for "cleaners" or endless rebooting and digging into the Registry manually and all of that).  The same can NOT be said about Nvidia, in my experience.

I finally noticed this problem with MC not running, so I think it must be a video card/power supply problem after all.

If you can, try a different power supply.  If you have a local dealer, you could even buy one, try it for a day or two, and return it if it doesn't solve the problem.

I, personally, always have a couple extras on-hand.  You'd be shocked how often video problems end up being PSU related.  The problem is that many of these deficiencies don't show up until you put the PSU under a load, so voltage meters are basically useless.  They'll tell you "dead/not-dead" but not "flaky/not-flaky".

Swap it for one with a bit more umph too, if you can, in case it is just hitting a power threshold that your existing PSU can't handle (just because the total wattage spec isn't exceeded, doesn't mean it isn't pulling too many amps on a particular rail).

[MrHaugen]

I've found a pattern on my drop outs (not screen going black for a long time, or forever though). I've been running on RO Standard for a long time now, and lately I've had 1-2 seconds dropout a couple of times each hour or so. Mkv, h264 files. When switching to RO HQ, this suddenly stopped. Watched 2 hours with no dropout now. I'll post back if it returns.

[JustinChase]

If you can, try a different power supply.  Swap it for one with a bit more umph too, if you can, in case it is just hitting a power threshold that your existing PSU can't handle (just because the total wattage spec isn't exceeded, doesn't mean it isn't pulling too many amps on a particular rail).

I hate being an idiot sometimes.  I disassembled my old HTPC, reused the parts in a new unRAID server, the new HTPC and my new desktop.  I bought 2 new power supplies, and 2 new nVidia cards, and was mentally thinking I put the 2 PS and video cards together.  however, I figured I'd just double check against the spreadsheet I keep listing all the parts I have in all my computers and home theater, and realize that I reused the power supply from the HTPC in the new HTPC, and put the new PS into the server, to make sure I had enough power for a dozen drives.

So, I'm actually using this PS in the current HTPC, which is a 2-rail supply, and is very likely the cause of my problems

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007  It's still 500W, but it's also 3-4 years old now.

If I had a better memory, or was willing to admit is stinks, I could have checked this long ago, and replaced it already.  I'm looking at Power Supplies on newegg now, but may just stop by Fry's on my way home.

Aaarrrgggghhhh!!!! 

[JustinChase]

I finally got around to replacing the power supply with a new 500W, single rail Corsair 80%+ unit, and this issue remains. 

It seems to occur whenever comskip is running in the background, or there is some other load on the CPU, like building thumbnails for lots of new/moved files.  It's really hard to switch to task manager when this is happening (since the screen is black most of the time), but when I do manage to get task manager open, the CPU is never above 50%, so I'm really at a loss now.

Short of replacing the motherboard and CPU with something more powerful, or not using comskip (not an option really), I'm out of ideas.