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[jd7744]

I'm looking for some insight into why my 192/24 files won't synch with 192k capable DAC's. Files are HD tracks downloads, soundcard is Juli@, connection is coax, Asio from ESI for the juli@, MC17 with dsp settings correct, using Muse 192 and Bel Canto DAC2, both 192/24 capable machines that play 192/24 CD 's via coax from dvd transport (muse model 10). All files up to 96/24 play perfectly. Spoke with ESI tech but they see setup correct. Thanks in advance. JD

[JimH]

The wiki has a DAC settings topic that might help.

Try setting DSP Studio's Output Settings to 24 bit/192.

I'm not clear on the chain you're using, so try a direct connect if you can.

[jd7744]

Thanks Jim.. Not sure what you mean by "chain" but mc17 houses my hirez files. I have win7 ultimate 64bit. Dual core processor with 4 gig memory. Audio output is set to use the juli@ board with its proprietary asio driver. MC dsp studio is set to play each file sample rate native. So 44.1 is set to 44.1, 96 is set to 96and 192 is set to 192. The dsp studio popup shows 192 output playing as does the juli@ software. When i switch from a 96k file, which plays fine, to the 192k file the dac no longer plays - its light blinks as if there's no signal. If i set mc dsp studio todown sample the file to 96k it plays fine. The juli@ digital output is s/pdif which is onnected to my dac s/pdif input via coax cable. As i mentioned earlier the dac plays 192 files from hirez dvd's. JD

[JimH]

Try resampling everything to 192Khz.

By chain, I meant the devices.  As I understand now, the juli card is connected directly to the DAC.

Do you have any other way to connect them other than S/PDIF?

[jd7744]

Can try Toslink with the bel canto. Will do this weekend and get back to you.

[JimH]

Can try Toslink with the bel canto. Will do this weekend and get back to you.

Good idea.   Bel Canto, the company, is in the next block here in Minneapolis.  We know them.  Great people.

[pcstockton]

Juli@ should be good up to 192 IF coax (not toslink/optical). At least mine is.

Have you tried turning off ALL dsps and playing it naturally?

-Patrick

[jd7744]

Thanks. Good to know it works for someone. I specifically changed from the Echo board to the juli for 192. Tech guy there helped get it working - had an initial BSD - but still this problem. If by turn all dsp off you mean leave the up/downsample panel unchanged, i've tried that. Is there a way to turn off completely? The ESI panel will tell me output sample rate. JD

[JimH]

In DSP Studio, uncheck "Output Settings".

If that doesn't work, check it and resample everything to 192.

See if they will provide an older (or newer) ASIO driver.

[jd7744]

Checked asio with esi tech and there's a control panel for the juli@ that shows the output format and it shows 192 out when i play a 192 file. So esi says the board is working properly. I'm goimg to try a shorter cable length. The coax is about 20 ft and everything i read says that is an acceptable length - 30 meters seems the limit - but maybe at 192 its an issue. Traveling so can't get to it untilthis weekend.

[pcstockton]

OK well the files are fine, MC is fine and Juli@ is working as it should.  Assuming you have a cable within spec (75 ohm), it only leaves the DAC.

Are SURE the DAC is up to the task?  Model?

Lastly, yes turn off ALL DSP.  Go full bush natural on it.

-Patrick

[pcstockton]

I just looked up the specs of your DAC2.

It is a 24/192 UPSAMPLING DAC.  I dont think it accepts 24/192 at input.  Not many DACs from 2002-2003 do.

I read through the white paper and it only speaks of upsampling to 24/192.  Also it specifically mentions 16 or 24 bit input but nothing of the freq range.

I couldn't find much on the Muse but it appears to be even older (late 90s).  This one certainly wont accept 24/192.

Just a thought but, can you try another DAC?

Lastly, with MC you can have all 192 present themselves as 96 so you can listen to the music!

-Patrick

[jd7744]

You may be right on the Bel Canto.  The review I have (6 Moons) does say it uses the Analog Devices 1896 upsampling chip but the specs for that chip say it accepts 24/196 signal (http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD1896.pdf). I'm not sure but I don't think its 139db SN ratio is achievable at 96k (a high number even for 196!). The Muse Model 192 DAC literature indicates but doesn't state specifically that it accepts 24/196 input at all of its S/Pdif, AES and I2S connectors. Its mate - the Model 10 Transport - which I use and is connected via the I2S cable plays 24/192 DVD audio disks (Coltrane - Blue Train and Ray Brown Trio - Solar Energy are 2 with 24/192 on one side of the disk). I will call Muse tomorrow and verify. When the Muse didn't work I just threw the Bel Canto in to try after I quickly read the review indicating 24/196. Thanks Patrick for the insight. This might be the right answer for which I would deserve a big DUH! JD

[pcstockton]

JD,

Just because the chip can handle 24/192, it might not follow that the DSP in the DAC does.  I am assuming that the upsampling happens prior to the actual DAC chip itself.

I would be surprised if either of those machines can handle 24/192 at input.  My bet is they are both "Red Book" DACs.

Good luck!

-Patrick

[Alex B]

In general, this discussion has only academic value. You can set MC to output 96 kHz if your hardware supports it. 192 kHz would not provide any better quality in the audible frequency range.

A 96 kHz sampling rate can reproduce frequencies up to 48 kHz. It is good for e.g. reproducing the sound of typical dog whistles. For reproducing the sounds that mice and bats produce the sample rate of 192 kHz or higher would be better. The standard 44.1 kHz Audio CD sample rate that can reproduce frequencies up to 22.1 kHz is good enough for humans.

I'm not sure but I don't think its 139db SN ratio is achievable at 96k (a high number even for 196!).

The signal-to-noise ratio is unrelated to the sampling rate. The bit depth value tells the available dynamic range: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth

[jd7744]

The Muse does indeed playpure 24/192 dvd audio discs such as the coltrane cd see http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HDAD2010 for a description of the disk. The muse plays both sides. I'm still not sure if it can take a 192k signal at its coax input but it certainly takes 24/96. Both mc on its dsp screen and the esi control panel report 96k output. Whether we can hear the difference is another arguement. The difference in sound between the above cd in red book form compared to the dvd audio counterpart is very easy to hear.

[jd7744]

An update - I haven't heard back from Muse after several messages. I did err on the Coltrane CD as I looked at it this weekend it is only 24/96. The Solar Energy CD however does have 24/192 on one side and 24/96 on the other (I knew one did). I connected the Muse transport (Model 10) to the DAC (Model 192) via s/pdif rather than the I2S (they call it MAP-Link) and the dvd played fine. Other than talking to Kevin Halverson at Muse I don't know how else to check. I also ran a shorter cable - about 15 feet - to the DAC but that didn't help get the 24/192 files to play.