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Author Topic: Communication on the forum  (Read 3858 times)

MrHaugen

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Communication on the forum
« on: January 12, 2012, 04:41:26 pm »

I was once again stopped by a forum admin today, for starting a poll on some of the more known shortcomings of Theater View and meta data handling. My goal was to give a clue as what parts people care most about, and what is most critical to address. To make all those who use Theater View and video happy, and at the same time, potentially opening up a whole new HUGE market for your application. Making 2012 an even better year than the last. I think it was written in a constructive way, and I emphasized that this could not be done over night. Which I think everyone gets.

If this if done solely to prevent pressure on the development team, I can understand it. But this feels more personal. Or at the best, just a bad example of how communication is lacking. I saw a similar Poll being started a short time after mine was deleted. This one got a bit more explanation before it got locked:

Quote
I removed the poll.  We don't need more feedback on Theater View.

Automated metadata will happen in the next week or two.

This tells us that you are working on a system for automatic meta data scraping. Which is great. That you don't need more feedback on theater view either means that you have some plans for Theater View or that you're about to address some or most of the problems in a short or long time period. It might be that you think it's sufficient like it is today, and that scares me a lot.

What I'm saying is that communication is often a good thing. If we knew that you were looking into automatic scraping, this posts might not have been started. Lot's of posts and time might have been spent on other stuff. If you would tell us something at all of the plans for Theater View, there might have been a lot less frustration (yes, there are more than me that is heavily into this). I might even not had to spend 30 hours on making that Theater View documentation that seems to have being forgotten.
I'm not saying that you have to broadcast your plans to everyone. But it would be a good idea to let the Beta team get SOME insight in some of this issues. This people that are much of your help desk. This is your second line of ideas for your work. They are activley helping you with development via third party apps. They support you and help you with issues other members have. Despite having negative things in mind, they focus on the good. Trying to help potential customers, and avoiding bad publicity. I my self, can't think of a reason why we should be kept out of the loop. News in the beta have very seldom, if ever, gotten out of the beta boards as I have seen.


I'm only left with one question. Will MC Theater View improve much over a foreseeable future? If not, I'll get ready to research some alternatives for my video files. I've come to a point where I don't really care much any more. Supporting you guys have been a pleasure for most parts, but this is the biggest issue left that is really worth fighting for, and I feel like I talk to a brick wall. All my ideas and time spent on the subject is mostly sucked into this black hole. I'll have to make peace with this before I'm sucked in with it.
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jgreen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 07:53:53 pm »

"If not, I'll get ready to research some alternatives for my video files."

Try WMP.  Microsoft's track record in communicating with its customers is truly marvelous.
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gvanbrunt

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 08:20:12 pm »

Quote
Try WMP.  Microsoft's track record in communicating with its customers is truly marvelous.

I know that is meant to be funny, but the truth is MS lets Devs in on a lot of their software way in advance. I have had an MSDN subscription for many years and the CTP's usually give a preview of many features that are then polished based on feedback. The features themselves are based on feedback from customers. They even build telemetry into products to see what features do get used etc.

Of course this is a very different model of development than JRiver, and both have pros and cons. I do have to agree with MrHaugen in the fact that sometimes it does feel like talking to a brick wall. Not that things don't get done, but more that we don't know what they are thinking so it can feel like progress is not going to happen or that they might not be listening. On the other side I'm sure JRiver does not want the competition to know what they are working on.

It would be nice if some kind of a happy medium could be reached about what is in the works so we have some kind of idea.
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Matt

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 10:05:25 pm »

We have a lot more good ideas and good intentions than we have free hands.

There are always bug reports.  There are probably 10 new good ideas posted each day on Interact.  Corporate customers have a list.  Jim has a list.  I have a list.  Others on the team have lists.

This is normal.  And the system works pretty well in my opinion.

But if I don't get everything I want, and Jim doesn't get everything he wants, then you're not going to get everything you want either.  Especially if what you want is a huge undertaking as opposed to something simple or specific.

We're going to continue incrementally improving the program.  We'll share details when we can or when it is helpful.  Users will continue to be an important part of the process.

This is the deal.

It's up to you whether you're on the bus or off the bus.

-The Brickwall
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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 02:06:18 am »

I'll take that as a no then. I was really hoping to avoid using two programs to handle music and video. I'll never stop using MC for Music, but as I use Theater View with videos for 95% of the time, I have to move on to something that does what I need.

Communication between developers and users is better than any other project I've seen. But I still think that it's lacking sometimes. Much of the problems and nagging could have been avoided if we knew just a bit more of the plans. That's all. If you had a plan that said that you'll look more into Theater View in version 18 or around that, I would have kept my mouth shut and waited.

You'll have to do what ever you want with your program. It's not up to me to decide what you must do (I've tried and succeeded in a few cases, and I'm happy with that). But it's up to me to decide whether I want to have a mediocre video experience for years to come, or if I want a solution that just work like I want it to.

You have a rock solid program. It's incredible for music. The auto configuration of codecs is great. Video just work. The average power and customization possibilities in this app is amazing. In my opinion it's just a shame that presentation and ease of use is not your biggest concerns. You do often not see the need. You don't even seem interested in knowing what people really want some times. And that is my big concern. You have a very healthy base of music centric users though. I'm sure you'll do more than ok, no matter what direction you take in the future.

Enough trouble from me. I'll try not to bother you any more with this.
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JimH

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 05:45:02 pm »

Carl,
You've made many suggestions, and I think we've implemented a few.  And I personally appreciate your passion for what you want, but it is not realistic to expect us to adopt your plans for our program.

You could be far more effective if you posted single simple changes rather than applying a lot of words to a complex set of changes.  The former may get accomplished.  The latter has no chance.

Alex B is a master of this.  He spends months helping people, documenting procedures, and sharing his knowledge with us.  Then a few times a year he asks for something specific and usually describes how it could be done.  I think we almost always implement his suggestions.  When we don't, he forgives us and moves on.

MrC, Marko, and many others here are equally generous, patient, and forgiving.  Life should be more about what you can give than what you can get.

I think you may have dreams of being the architect of your own software.  I encourage you to follow them.

Jim
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JustinChase

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 08:43:55 pm »

Perhaps it might be possible to help us help the devs by letting us know the current focus of development from time to time.

For example, if Theater View is the item de jour, I'd be happy to focus my use and feedback towards that.  If TV is coming under the microscope, we could focus our feedback on that area of use.

I realize this isn't as simple as it may sound, but it also might be better than JRiver being focused on something, but all the testers giving feedback on an entirely different part of MC at the time, which likely results in the feedback being less useful to JRiver, since it's not as able to be implemented while focus is elsewhere.

I appreciate that focus changes quickly, and the random feedback coming "out of nowhere" gives a chance to change gears, and spark totally new ideas/thoughts (convolver, for example) and that's great too, but if you could get all the great minds here focused on one area for a week or 2, I suspect the potential for excellent growth in that area would be magnified.

Anyway, the point is well taken that JRiver will do what JRiver wants to do, and I don't really think it should be any other way.  I'm just suggesting (as was MrHaugen I suspect) that we want to help, and if we knew what areas were up for change, the help we can provide might be more useful.

Back to my cave now  :-X
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rjm

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 09:41:43 pm »

Nothing needs to change from my perspective. However, if JRiver wanted to make the beta team experience go from good to great, and perhaps squeeze a bit more contribution as a result, all it would take is a little more communication about plans and a friendlier way of saying no. I'll never forget getting a private email from one of the MC developers updating me on a problem that no one else was experiencing. It was so thoughtful and despite the problem not being fixed (video jerky on my XP system) I am a happy team member.
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jgreen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 09:45:36 pm »

Microsoft is a big company that puts out mediocre software, and yet they hardly ever get any complaints.  Why?  Because they're a big company, AND because they don't listen to complaints.  

JRiver is a small company that puts out great software.  From time to time they get complaints and they listen to them.  Why?  Because they're trying to learn from their customers.  This is how a company like JRiver gets to be great, even though they're small.

The problem is that some customers aren't here to teach or learn.  They're here to complain.  JRiver treats all complaints with equal importance because, well, they never seem to learn.  They keep figuring that everyone has something of importance to contribute, and that if you explain to an adult that you can't please everyone, every adult will understand.

This is the reason that I come to them for software, and not for life advice.  I'm a cynic and they're a bunch of cockeyed optimists.  

I'm not targeting the OP here, he's looking for something in particular that JRiver can't do right now.  I AM targeting the idea that JRiver needs to explain itself, especially when it puts out such great software, for mere pennies.

FWIW!  

  
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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 06:53:03 am »

Perhaps it might be possible to help us help the devs by letting us know the current focus of development from time to time.

For example, if Theater View is the item de jour, I'd be happy to focus my use and feedback towards that.  If TV is coming under the microscope, we could focus our feedback on that area of use.

I realize this isn't as simple as it may sound, but it also might be better than JRiver being focused on something, but all the testers giving feedback on an entirely different part of MC at the time, which likely results in the feedback being less useful to JRiver, since it's not as able to be implemented while focus is elsewhere.

I appreciate that focus changes quickly, and the random feedback coming "out of nowhere" gives a chance to change gears, and spark totally new ideas/thoughts (convolver, for example) and that's great too, but if you could get all the great minds here focused on one area for a week or 2, I suspect the potential for excellent growth in that area would be magnified.

Anyway, the point is well taken that JRiver will do what JRiver wants to do, and I don't really think it should be any other way.  I'm just suggesting (as was MrHaugen I suspect) that we want to help, and if we knew what areas were up for change, the help we can provide might be more useful.

Back to my cave now  :-X

Exactly my thoughts as well. Just look at the one or two periods we had with focus on certain topics like WAF. It was a lot easier to get ideas through. We did not wast time giving suggestions on lots of other topics, because we knew that you had a focus. We did not have to worry about lenghty articles being written and forgotten. And so on. I don't think this is something you have to do all the time, but a friendly "Hey, we're tinking of having a bit of xxxxxxxxxxxx focus the next few weeks" would certainly be helpfull. And perhaps a few of your thoughts of long time plans for certain topics.

As Jim says, I understand that you can't do what ever every user want. You have to prioritize, and that it's easier to implement small stuff than a long list of complicated changes. Just bare in mind that my longest list so far also consists of lots of minor changes, that you can prioritize and implement as you see fit. I never ever said that all had to be implemented. I just had to write it all to show you the importance of certain things put together.



Only thing that still troubles me is this. Hope I don't step to much on anyones toes here.... When you decide what to develop you've mentioned before that it consists of a part you want, a part of what the community want and then a part of where the trend takes you. I don't remember the exact words, but that does not matter much.

What I'm afraid of is that your vision of a Media Center is a bit of track compared to the common persons needs. That you in a few places focus to much on what you (or the most outspoken people on interact want to achieve) that you forget what the bigger crowd really wants. It even seems like you're not willing to find out what people really want some times, because then you'll have to focus some on the parts you don't care that much about. I'm talking especially of the 10 foot couch experience here. If there is some hold in this, you're in every right to do so. It's your app. I just think it's a bit sad. Especially for the majority of Media Center application users and your potential income. The post regarding the use of Theater View say much in this case. You guessed that 1/4 were using Theater View, while the answer was closer to 3/4. Other posts, reviews and polls on interact and other forums indicate just the same.

If you don't care about getting a larger user base and want MC to stay a specialized software focused on Music and video playback, then this is fine. If you do want a much larger user base, and want to take the fight on with other Media Center apps, then I urge you to figure out what the people really want from a Media Center. If you do it right, you can be sure there will be lot's of people moving away from limited apps like XBMC and MediaPortal.
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JimH

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 07:35:28 am »

Thanks, jgreen.

To address others' requests for better communication of our plan ....

We did a "Where we're going" thread at the beginning of the MC17 cycle.  

The rest is monotonous detail.  The process is slow, often tedious, and labor intensive.  Some of you are developers.  You understand this.  It's a lot more like this than this.

And there are more than a few interruptions ... like this.
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Jaguu

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 07:36:35 am »

Quote
Perhaps it might be possible to help us help the devs by letting us know the current focus of development from time to time.

Well, if you are not blind, it is pretty easy to detect. One or two new builds and you pretty soon realize, when there is a new change of development focus, and sometimes JRiver also makes announcement like WAF focus last summer. I  am very often surprised how quick these shifts sometimes happen.

To MrHaugen:

When I was kid, my mother used to tell me: "The 'Wannahave' flower does not grow anywhere in the world, not even in the gardens of the kings"  :'(
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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 09:05:01 am »

I know what I want, but I'm in no illusion that this have to be done because I say so and that's why it's important. I do not expect to find any "flowers". I do not expect my wishes to be granted just because I yell out the loudest. What I do hope for is to figure out what JRiver want to achieve one day, and to help them the best I can if it's part of a direction that I like my self. And I think it is.


Anyway.... I've spent a couple of days and quite a few hours now, looking at the alternatives for video on a 10 foot interface. And the situation is grimm. I focused on the few "big players" out there. Like XBMC, MediaPortal and Windows Media Center. I'm not suprised that I was not blown away, but some things was quite shocking.

What is a common thing for this Media Centers is that the navigation is truly horrible in most cases. It takes a long time to figure out what to do in some cases. The are also very file depentant in most cases. Resulting in quite a bit of work if a show or a movie fail to get meta data. MediaPortal is perhaps the only one you can actually really customize a few things in. Though it's not nearly enough to give you the options you're used to in MC. And some of the apps is painfully slow at times. Even in normal browsing and changing of views.

The few things that stands out with this apps is the following:
- Plugin based. A super rich selection of plugins to add all kind of functionality to the MC's. Meta data scraping, games, online services. You name it!
- Highly skin based. Skins contains both looks and customized functionality. Giving you the possibility of finding your own style with a few clicks.
- Ability to customize views on the fly. Sorting, filtering etc.
- Automated meta data that in most cases works right out of the box. Everything automatic. That was a great feeling.
- Configuration of most common options in Theater View.

Even with this upsides, I'm convinced I'll never be able to walk away from MC as a music or video Media Center. As long as the competitors does not really focus of some underlaying problems. That will take years, and by that time I think JRiver have done wonders.
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nwboater

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2012, 09:19:10 am »


To address others' requests for better communication of our plan ....

We did a "Where we're going" thread at the beginning of the MC17 cycle.  


Jim - Might it be useful to have the "Where we're going" thread  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=66587.0 as a sticky? Must admit I had forgotten about it. Possibly others did too. It is very helpful to know your overall direction.

Thanks,
Rod
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)p(

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2012, 10:25:12 am »

I'm talking especially of the 10 foot couch experience here. If there is some hold in this, you're in every right to do so. It's your app. I just think it's a bit sad. Especially for the majority of Media Center application users and your potential income. The post regarding the use of Theater View say much in this case. You guessed that 1/4 were using Theater View, while the answer was closer to 3/4. Other posts, reviews and polls on interact and other forums indicate just the same.

A little of-topic but lately I am wondering if the 10 foot interface is still as important as most of us thought it would be. For selecting media on the tv/projector I prefer to use the ipad. For readability and ease of navigation I think tablets are hard to beat.
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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2012, 11:10:32 am »

Even though more people might control the collection through various devices in the future, I still think that they would prefer to look at a Theater View than a standard view on their 50 inch LED TV's while they pick their media. I really doubt that many have started using Pads to remote control their HTPC's yet though. I think that control methods like Tremote on a Win8 pad will be a potential killer combo when it's released. But I don't think it will make the 10 foot interface any less wanted.
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locust

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2012, 11:52:19 am »

I think people can get heat up, in the way that we request changes..

For one when I request something it is almost always written like a question - and answered questions can get frustrating sometimes because it does feel like your talking to a brick wall.. But it isn't really a conversation it's a forum.. The staff don't have the time to reply to most posts..

Maybe a different request system could work better, there could be a form page where users could submit there ideas to the dev team (Not a conversation so there would be no hard feelings).

The dev team could then, see the requests coming in, discard them if they aren't any good or post them to a dev only board if they are good. Then there could even be a sub board opened to the beta team where if the dev team wished to share a users idea it could be posted there for the dev & beta team to discuss

Anyway just my thoughts, I think something like this could stop stuff like this re-occurring and stop people getting the impression they are being ignored
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Jaguu

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2012, 12:08:29 pm »

brian0001,

having been a MC user and customer since version 7 in distant 2001, I remember that JRiver had such a board to submit requests. Obviously it was dropped at some point along the way as users mostly submitted their requests in the forum. It did not seem to be very efficient to have 2 separate channels for requests.
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locust

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2012, 12:27:44 pm »

Hi Jaguu

I'm a new user, less than a year..

So the only reason it didn't work is because everybody ignored it and posted in the forums anyway? I suppose the only way you could have a system like that to work, is if you had zero tolerance for people using the forums to request and deleted their threads when they did..

I can see why it wouldn't be very efficient.. But in other cases it could be..
A dev only board and then a Dev & Beta only board (probably the same board just done via permissions)

When looking in the forum when you want to look for requests, is difficult to sift through.. and I can imagine that a fair few requests probably get lost in there.

Seeing all the requests clumped together would I think, give the dev & beta team a better feel of where MC is going without having to ask many questions.

I assume that some threads would still be open for public discussion..

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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2012, 12:41:34 pm »

The problem is not usually that the requests gets lost. JRiver is VERY good at reading everything here, and I think they are considering most of the suggestions. Another way of submitting it would most likely not help. The problem in my opinion is the lack of understanding of the importance of a few subjects.
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JimH

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2012, 12:53:41 pm »

The problem in my opinion is the lack of understanding of the importance of a few subjects.

It is presumptious on your part to assume that JRiver doesn't understand our customers' needs. 
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locust

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2012, 01:08:44 pm »

Would it be possible for people to work on a third party plugin that works kind of like theatre view that has all the changes you want?

Or is that outwit the limitations of plugins?
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JimH

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2012, 01:15:48 pm »

Anything is possible, but supporting SDK's and developers also takes time for JRiver.

The issue here is not whether the program will advance.  It will.

The issue is how communication can be effective and positive.

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locust

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2012, 01:28:30 pm »

I know it will :)

I was just wondering if a temporary medium is achievable.. I got little programming experience and am unsure of the amount of effort this would take..
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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2012, 01:31:37 pm »

It is presumptious on your part to assume that JRiver doesn't understand our customers' needs.  

It is, and I'm sorry for that. But it comes out more harsh than it's supposed to. It's difficult for me not to get an impression like this though.

Here are the things that immediately pops into my mind:
- About 3/4 of the users use Theater view or want to use it (as far as we know). A bit quick and rough poll, but it's far better than nothing.
- It would surprise me if more than 10% of the changes in the change log mentions anything of Theater View. Despite so many people using it
- The sheer amount of users with XBMC and similar versus the smaller userbase of JRiver MC should tell us a couple of things. I do not know any numbers here. But I would be seriously shocked if MC had close to the numbers of the other popular MC's.
- Almost all threads in other forums like AVforum and similar where JRiver or members have mentioned JRiver it gets criticized on three things: Complicated, Don't look so good and Have no automatic meta data scraping abilities.

The latter will hopefully get some attention now (scraping). The other two have to get some attention before MC will be able to pull much users from the already popular and known brands.


What you have done with MC is simply amazing. You have built an app that is so great at what it does. You have been focusing heavily on Music for big part of the first versions. There is not much competition here. Then you have done something great with video. It's self configuring. It just work. And it's of a very high playback quality. Meta data have been a big missing chapter for a long time, but now it looks like this also gets some love. Theater View have been left out for most parts for a long time though. The roller design var the big breakthrough here, but it's still lacking so much when you compare it to other applications.

With the Music and video part of MC being so good now, I just don't see the cost effectiveness of pushing much more music and video playback features into MC. You have a solid platform that makes you very safe in the market. It's imo a perfect time to figure out what the users want. How to take MC to a new height. I'm pretty sure this would be functionality, looks and ease of use in Theater View. But only some research can tell you that for sure.
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JimH

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2012, 01:38:49 pm »

If you prefer another player, use it.  If you want to stay with JRiver, you could be more helpful if you'd just make a simple suggestion or two, in a new thread with an appropriate topic.  The volume and language of what you continue to say is just not effective.

There are many things we'd like to do.  Theater View eye candy isn't near the top of the list.
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MrHaugen

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2012, 03:42:52 pm »

I have been testing other players. But as I mentioned I can't make my self keep using them over a longer period of time. I would go nuts. They are just lacking to much of the basics. And yes, I know it would be more effective to mention one or two smaller feature requests. I mentioned the reason why I did it the way I did the one time. I'll be sure not to do that again.

I started this thread with the hope of getting a couple of questions answered. Unfortunately I've not learned much, except from the fact that you don't value eye candy.
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Osho

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2012, 04:07:21 pm »

I have a looooooooong list of outstanding feature requests that I would like to see in MC17 and have requested them over time. Some of my requests have been fulfilled (thanks!) and many have not been. This is nothing to complain about and in fact it is something to be really glad about.

  • some of these requests are getting fulfilled by the developer team
  • when the request can't be fulfilled for whatever reason, we usually get a feedback saying that this won't be done or won't be done in near future.

I have used many software programs and have filed requests for improvements/bug reports against many of them. They range from being free to costing $10,000+ for a license. For example,

  • Free: Firefox
  • Costing <$100: MC17, Cyberlink powerdirector etc.
  • Costing $100+ but less than $1000 : Lightroom 3, Microsoft Office Pro 2010 with pretty much all the programs in that suite
  • Costing $1000+ but less than $10000 : Adobe CS5 Master Suite
  • Costing $10000+ : Can't say the name but think professional CAD softwares

In extremely rare cases, developers are as accessible and open to user requests as in MC17.

Osho

PS: This post should not be interpreted as a request to raise MC17 prices :).
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glynor

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2012, 08:03:13 pm »

I have a looooooooong list of outstanding feature requests that I would like to see in MC17 and have requested them over time. Some of my requests have been fulfilled (thanks!) and many have not been. This is nothing to complain about and in fact it is something to be really glad about.

Totally agreed.  I've never dealt with a company as responsive to (or engaged with) their users before.  It is a prime reason why they have earned my loyalty, and my cash.
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Daydream

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Re: Communication on the forum
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2012, 09:55:44 pm »

I like to believe that there is a magic level of persuasion, and people that master that get great results every time. I always try my best; most of the time I fail, but it doesn't stop me from trying again, maybe next time I'll explain better, maybe it'll come out less than 5 pages.

To be honest, just seeing this thread gives me some hope, somehow. Maybe we are not that far apart. I appreciate the insights given. I would like to share with you 2 opinions of mine, hoping that they add up to something, even if not much.

1) The combined features of MC address more needs than you as a company seems able to split your dev efforts to. Just by reading this thread it seems from outside (even if it's a possible flawed view) that your combined TO-DO lists (let alone piling ours on top of them) are bigger than what you can deliver in an acceptable time frame. Acceptable is a key word. It may be acceptable to you to finish them in 5 years it may not be to others. It seems to me that with every major iteration of MC you're trying to give something to everybody, but it's a catch up game.

I've no experience with programming (and respect those with skills, like you) or programming teams but I wonder where's the ballance? From my POV the question that comes up is: can you hire more people to develop MC? We have obviously reached the limit of requests we can ask of you on a daily basis. The only way you can deal with them it seems to raise the threashold of what is important. To whom remains a debatable item.


2) To be specific to Theater View. From my POV this is an elephant in the room (althouth I understand that not being such a priority for JRiver, our opinions differ). I personally disagree with the implementation at hand. I'm past metadata, past skinning, past navigation. I have struggled - in private - to find a way to build on what it is and give incentives to other people to do more with it. But I don't see an end game, I don't see the end benefits. You can't make something out of nothing, and the current concept was not developped far enough to alow for more features. Do you, JRiver, have an end game for Theater View?

In your thread "Where We're Going Next" when somebody asked about Theater View being skinable the answer was (not a perfect quote) "it's skinnable for years, we just haven't seen much interest". Statements like that make me wonder if you trully understand your customer needs. Why wasn't there much interest? It's a full fledged framework and nobody wants to use it for some strange reasons? I do not believe so.

You say to not ask for huge changes and go step by step. This is where we struggle to understand each other. It's an elephant, we can't piecemeal it. If that was a viable solution we would have done in the last 3 years.
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