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[chris_bonk]

I have read now and then people proclaiming how this or the other computer sounded better whilst running the same software. I had dismissed this as either an overactive imagination or them being in possession of such an analytical ear and hifi as not to affect me anyway.

JRiver 17 sounds better on my friends old HP laptop than my new Toshiba laptop. I'm not imagining it, as his wife can also hear the difference. Of course settings in both JRiver are the same, as is everything else, other than the computers.

Also what is annoying is that MediaMonkey also sounds better than JRiver on my laptop.

Apart from mine being quad core and my friend's dual, what other influences might there be?

What is the reason and what can I do about it? I only have another 6 days trial period for the JRiver after which I will be stumped. If you haven't already guessed, I would rather use JRiver.

rgds

Chris

[Alex B]

Could you please define what you mean by better?
How does the audio quality differ between the two laptops?
How does the audio quality differ between the two programs on the same laptop?

What amplifier and speakers/headphones do you use? Do you use an on-board sound device and the analog output connector or something else?

I assume you are speaking about an obvious difference, but if not, please also see this video: Audio Myths Workshop by Ethan Winer (if your bandwidth allows, select the 720p HD quality for a more pleasant experience).

Edit

If you are indeed speaking about faint, barely audible differences, you should carefully match the output volume levels (slightly louder is usually experienced as better) and perform a blind listening test before making any conclusions. For matching the different hardware devices you may need to use a sound level meter. Matching the software players may be easier. For example, you can disable all digital signal processing and use the same output mode on both programs. When you perform a blind test you must be completely unaware of which player/device is playing at any moment. You can literally put the playing devices behind a curtain or in another room and use an assistant to operate the players.

[JimH]

Try using WASAPI Event Style.  Tools/Options/Audio.

If you have ever used Jplay, uninstall it.

As Alex says, even a little volume difference can change the outcome.

Urbanito, I split your post to another thread.  We need to find out more about this problem here.

[Trumpetguy]

I have read now and then people proclaiming how this or the other computer sounded better whilst running the same software. I had dismissed this as either an overactive imagination or them being in possession of such an analytical ear and hifi as not to affect me anyway.

JRiver 17 sounds better on my friends old HP laptop than my new Toshiba laptop. I'm not imagining it, as his wife can also hear the difference. Of course settings in both JRiver are the same, as is everything else, other than the computers.

Also what is annoying is that MediaMonkey also sounds better than JRiver on my laptop.

Apart from mine being quad core and my friend's dual, what other influences might there be?

The only thing equal is the JRiver software? Do you have identical audio paths? Like the same DA converter, identical sound levels during comparison? I would look for other elements than the software player first.

[fitbrit]

If you're outputting via the laptops' 3.5mm audio jacks, the difference may be in the onboard soundcards, and their DACs, or as others have expressed, the volume levels. I suspect the latter if mediaamonkey sounds better to you on your laptop - perhaps the default gain is different on the two programs. Also, since there are so many tweaks one can do in MC, maybe you should load the same library file with a restore on each laptop, and choose to apply the same settings too.

[chris_bonk]

Thanks to everyone who has answered. I don't know if this is a bad way of posting but I have answered everyone together.

Could you please define what you mean by better?
How does the audio quality differ between the two laptops?
How does the audio quality differ between the two programs on the same laptop?

What amplifier and speakers/headphones do you use? Do you use an on-board sound device and the analog output connector or something else?

I assume you are speaking about an obvious difference.....

Sounding "better" is of course my opinion. Sorry I should have said "different". It sounds different in that the JRiver on my laptop has a thinner sound than on my friends. Less Bass and body. This is similar to the difference between JRiver and Mediamonkey on my laptop. JRiver sounds thinner. I appreciate that louder can often sound "better" and I did take that into account.

The system was as follows: Laptop with Win7, Ayre QB9, Silent wire USB cable, Naim Amp and Ovator 600 speakers. The room is also with bass traps, diffusors and absorbers.

I also have the same opinion when playing on my own system: Ayre QB9, Silent Wire USB cable, Swissonor AM6221 Tube Amp and Swissonor BACH 12 speakers. The room has less "correction" applied to it but the difference to me appears to be clear.

If you're outputting via the laptops' 3.5mm audio jacks, the difference may be in the onboard soundcards, and their DACs, or as others have expressed, the volume levels. I suspect the latter if mediaamonkey sounds better to you on your laptop - perhaps the default gain is different on the two programs. Also, since there are so many tweaks one can do in MC, maybe you should load the same library file with a restore on each laptop, and choose to apply the same settings too.

Output is via USB. If I am comparing Mediamonkey with JRiver the volume appears similar, even if I did not check the SPL. Both are outputting music in bitperfet mode so no leveling or volume control is applied from the software.

Try using WASAPI Event Style.  Tools/Options/Audio.

If you have ever used Jplay, uninstall it.

Yes I am using WASAPI event style. I do not have Jplay. I am not using the internal soundcard.

I am going to borrow another laptop (but XP instead of W7) and see if the difference is there too.

[Alex B]

I can't think about anything that could cause a difference between two laptops in the reproduction of the bass frequency range when the same self-powered external USB DAC is used.

Bass reproduction should be the easy part. Almost all potential and controversial quality issues that audiophiles are discussing about affect the reproduction of the highest audible frequencies. For example, distortion caused by digital jitter and ringing near the Nyquist limit (when the sample rate is 44.1 KHz) belong to this category.

A slightly reduced volume level could indeed be experienced as having less "bass and body". I wonder if a setting or adjustment could still be hiding in a differently set mode or position, either inside MC or in the device driver.

Regarding the difference between Media Monkey and MC, I don't think Media Monkey has any secret weapon that can make it better. When all DSP is disabled (including Replay Gain and the internal & Windows application volume controls) and the same output mode is used, the audio quality should be exactly the same in both programs. Of course one program may provide better support for various device drivers, decode some formats more reliably, or handle playback buffering better than the other program, but problems in these areas tend to manifest themselves as seriously corrupted output, not as faint differences in the perceived audio quality.

On the other hand, MC's powerful DSP features and VST plugin support can be very be useful in situations when the played recordings, audio hardware, and/or listening room are less than optimal.

[pcstockton]

There are hundreds of possible reasons for SQ differences.  Maybe thousands.

If you are outputting from J River with ASIO, WASAPI or KS you are getting everything MC has to offer there.

Otherwise you should look elsewhere for the source of the deltas.

-Patrick

[chris_bonk]

Regarding the difference between Media Monkey and MC, I don't think Media Monkey has any secret weapon that can make it better. When all DSP is disabled (including Replay Gain and the internal & Windows application volume controls) and the same output mode is used, the audio quality should be exactly the same in both programs. Of course one program may provide better support for various device drivers, decode some formats more reliably, or handle playback buffering better than the other program, but problems in these areas tend to manifest themselves as seriously corrupted output, not as faint differences in the perceived audio quality.

I agree, and I would anticipate the JRiver, being a product supported by sales will be better implemented.

I have discovered the following which might help identify where the problem is coming from: If I start my laptop with the DAC and USB cable plugged into the computer I don't get the problem. If I start the laptop first and then plug in I do get the problem. In both cases the display on the DAC shows the correct sample frequency being played.

I borrowed a laptop running XP, loaded JRiver and set it up with ASIO4ALL driver. On this laptop I did not experience the same issue, it always sounded the same.

So is it the Thesycon USB driver that is the problem? In the device manager the Ayre DAC is shown correctly connected to the USB2 enhanced host controller in all cases.

But the issue surounding "better sounding laptop" hasn't gone away though as JRiver on my laptop with win7 sounds better than the old one with XP and asio4all. Both are supposed to be outputing bit perfect aren't they? So why do they sound different? Can it be related to internal component radiation or some such thing? (maybe this needs a seperate thread later)

rgds

Chris

[Vincent Kars]

JRiver on my laptop with win7 sounds better than the old one with XP and asio4all. Both are supposed to be outputting bit perfect aren't they?

Depends on how you have configured the Win7.
If you have done "nothing" you are using DS (Direct Sound, the Win default)
In this case all audio is converted to the setting in the WIN soundpanel and dithered.
If you use Win7/WASAPI the output is bitperfect.

[NickF]

Depends on how you have configured the Win7.
If you have done "nothing" you are using DS (Direct Sound, the Win default)
In this case all audio is converted to the setting in the WIN soundpanel and dithered.
If you use Win7/WASAPI the output is bitperfect.

Vincent, are you saying that we have to select WASAPI within Win7 as well as within MC?  If so, where is the setting?  I can't see anything in the Sound Panel.

Nick.

[Vincent Kars]

No, the sound panel is Direct Sound settings only.
In MC you have to select WASAPI in outputmode and the QB9 in the output mode setting

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/MC_Wasapi.htm
or
http://www.ayre.com/usb-jriver_setup_vista.htm

[chris_bonk]

No, the sound panel is Direct Sound settings only.
In MC you have to select WASAPI in outputmode and the QB9 in the output mode setting

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/MC_Wasapi.htm
or
http://www.ayre.com/usb-jriver_setup_vista.htm

Yes, on the Win7 laptop I have selected Wasapi and QB9 in output mode. In the XP laptop I have selected ASIO and Asio4all.

In a way, I have solved my problem, I just need to start up with the USB DAC plugged in. So I am now happy to get MC. But there is still the question as to why apparently "bitperfect" sounds different on different computers/OS. Does the hardwear in the computer have that much influence?