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[Hendrik]

So, some small annoying thing that i keep running into by accident.

I navigate around the theater view lists with my remote using the arrow keys on it.
If i get to the end of one row, the "Right" key will move to the next row, as one would expect, and select the first item in the new row.
But when i'm at the first item in a row, and press the "Left" key, it jumps to the top menu instead of the last item of the previous row.

Somehow, this seems inconsistent, and when i navigate around a long list of files and accidentally press "Right" once too much, its also quite annoying.
I guess this is intended for some reason, but i wanted to ask anyway!

[Matt]

It is by design.

The goal is to make it so there's an easy way out of a huge list that scrolls vertically.  While you can use the 'Back' button on the remote, one of the design goals is to allow navigation with four arrows, enter, and the green button.  Other buttons should never be required, but only act as shortcuts.

You may notice that all the new 3d list styles scroll left-to-right to avoid this issue.

Do you have any ideas for an approach that might work better?

[MrC]

I agree with this nevcairiel person .

I think Left should stop at item First, and Right should stop at item Last.  Doing otherwise is harmful to your current view (you inadvertently bounce into some other location in Theater View without carefully watching when you're at the beginning).

Up could jump from the list to the rollers, as that is generally less harmful.

[JimH]

For what it's worth .... I would not like to make changes in the navigation. 

It was a long and difficult path to find a solution that worked reasonably well for all users.  We even did an alternate mode navigation because there were two camps on some issue I've forgotten now.

[JustinChase]

I am also stymied by this on occasion, and would prefer functionality like Nev describes.

I would suggest a long press of the left (or up) button take me to the rollers, but normal presses scroll thru the rows as Nev suggests.

[JimH]

No matter what the navigation is, occasionally you will end up where you don't want to be.  It's just the nature of pressing a lot of keys fast with one hand while you're spilling a beer with the other.

[MrC]

... or a stop when reaching the front/end during rapid mouse scroll/key press, and the next click of left/right will advance.

Matt, I'm not sure so about this.  In the DishNetwork ViP922, rapid navigation through lists never yanks you to another mode in the UI.

[rick.ca]

But when i'm at the first item in a row, and press the "Left" key, it jumps to the top menu instead of the last item of the previous row. Somehow, this seems inconsistent...

This behaviour came first, and exists primarily in an effort to make the four-key navigation system consistent. {Left} always moves "back" through menus and views. Matt has explained why it goes back to the menu in a list where "back" might also mean "previous item." Originally, in an apparent effort to maintain consistency, {Right} did nothing in a thumbnail list. Some of us complained this made it very awkward to scroll sequentially through the list, so {Right} was made to go the next item. An inconsistency, but a very useful one—even though there's no equivalent way to scroll backwards.

Perfect consistency is not possible without limiting functionality. Let's not forget this "navigation system" interfaces with the human brain—which has an amazing ability to learn and adapt. At some point, the developers have to accept they've done their best, and it's up to the user to learn and adapt. The brain not preoccupied with the logic of the design can do so in seconds.

[MrHaugen]

I would HATE to loose the left navigation function for going to the menu. If it was an option to modify this behavior, sure. No problem. But not changing it for everyone. It would be horrible to go to other views when you are in the middle of a huge view.

I think that everyone should be able to scroll sequentially with the right button, and if need be, go up to the previous line with the up key. This seems like a much less sacrifice than removing the back functionality for those without a back button.

[glynor]

For what it's worth .... I would not like to make changes in the navigation.  

It was a long and difficult path to find a solution that worked reasonably well for all users.  We even did an alternate mode navigation because there were two camps on some issue I've forgotten now.

That was me (and a few other people).  I remember you changed it when I was away in Las Vegas at NABShow and wasn't paying attention, and I found out when I was in the airport trying to use Theater View to watch some movies while I waited for a plane.  Epic threads were epic.  Generally, I still like the "old way" better, but I'm used to the "new way" now.

Please don't change this.  It'd make my wife's head explode.

[raym]

For what it's worth .... I would not like to make changes in the navigation. 

And yet one aspect of it changed recently. I find I now need to press left arrow twice when moving out of each nested view. Ie, left arrow constantly reverts back to the list rather than staying on the top roller. I don't like this much and prefered it the way it was.

[rick.ca]

I find I now need to press left arrow twice when moving out of each nested view.

I don't see that behaviour in any of my views.

[glynor]

And yet one aspect of it changed recently. I find I now need to press left arrow twice when moving out of each nested view. Ie, left arrow constantly reverts back to the list rather than staying on the top roller. I don't like this much and prefered it the way it was.

I agree.  This annoys me.

It was already one extra button press from the "old way", and now it is two.  Feeping Creatures.

[glynor]

I don't see that behaviour in any of my views.

Really?

That's certainly how it is here.  Drill down into a non-thumbnail view (list or Lineup Style) with more than one Category, but don't stay at the top of the list (arrow down within each category before you open it).  Say, for example, a [Series]/[Season] View of TV Shows.

Now, hit Left Arrow to go all the way back to Home.

Press 1 - Takes you to the Top Roller
Press 2 - Takes you to Back and navigates back one view.  Then (and this is what is new), the "cursor" jumps back down to the list, with what you'd previously opened highlighted.
Press 3 - Takes you back to the Top Roller
Press 4 - Takes you back another step.
Etc.

It is WAY worse if you happen to be using a multi-level Thumbnails-style view.  Then it can be TONS of repeated left arrow presses, if the previously selected item happened to be "mid-grid".

Before it was...

Press 1 - Takes you to the Top Roller
Press 2 - Takes you to Back and navigates back one view.  The top roller stays highlighted (the cursor just moves back to highlight the View's name).
Press 3 - Takes you back another step.

If you do needed to navigate the list in this second "tier" you could still do it with, two "down arrows" (one to go to the lower roller, and another to go back to the view).  It was even smart enough that it would then put the highlight on the previously opened item.

I find in multi-level views like that, if I'm going backwards from the file level, I almost always want to get back to the top category (the [Series] list in my example), not to a different season of the same show.  Sometimes you do need it (if  I just watched the finale of a particular show, for example), but more often not.  Speed and fluidity of going "back" is more important to me ("get me out of here" style).

[rick.ca]

OIC. Thanks for explaining. I suppose I like the new way so much, I didn't even notice the change. It seems more intuitive to me that a "back" command retraces my steps by going directly to the previously selected category value. That can be useful if I want to take a different "branch" at some point. If not (which is often the case), I just press twice. That's easier than stopping at the menu, wondering what value was selected for that category, and then switching to "down" to change it. In other words, I find it easier this way, whether I want to change the previous category value or not. And if I want to back out of the view completely to the main menu, I just press and hold {Left}—it makes no difference.

ProTip: Instead of wasting time with some useless video game, spend a few hours practising pressing and holding buttons just long enough to navigate to the specific level you want to go to. Good, clean fun for the whole family! 

[glynor]

It is WAY worse if you happen to be using a multi-level Thumbnails-style view.  Then it can be TONS of repeated left arrow presses, if the previously selected item happened to be "mid-grid".

This is the biggest problem.

It is also inconsistent.  If you tap the left-arrow key fast enough (without hesitating between Press 2 and 3) it actually doesn't act the way I described, and works the way it used to.  I see why they did this.  This way you can still go back "fast" this way if you hold down the button or pound on it quickly (otherwise, you'd have to scroll sideways across your thumbails view first if you held it down), but... Then it is inconsistent and disorienting.

Plus, it requires you to "know ahead of time" that you want to go all the way back.  You can't tap back, ponder for a split second and scan the screen with your eyes, and then tap back again to go back a tier.  The tolerances are low.  It jumps down to the list quite quickly.

Something that happens to me regularly is this:

1. I'm browsing a Genre/Artist (Grouped by Letter)/Artist/Album view in Theater View, looking for something to play "next".
2. I drill down to look at the tracks on a particular album by a particular Artist.  I either play something, or decide "nah" and want to go back.
3. I now want to, usually, go back and maybe look for other Artists within the same Genre.  I don't want to go all the way back (then you could just hold the button or hit the Green button a few times), but I want to go back a few levels.
4. It takes a bunch of button presses that it didn't before.  On a keyboard it isn't such a big deal.  On a Remote it can be really annoying.

If you are using a Thumbnails-Style view, it is totally useless and frustrating to go backwards, unless you press and hold (and then I always over/undershoot).

[MrHaugen]

I find the selection of the previous item in lists to be kind of bad as well. Especially in Thumbnail, Sheet or 3D list types. It might be better to just reset all views when going back, so selection in the middle of for instance Thumbnail view does not require lots of left arrow presses. Just as Glynor described. Other than that, I am pretty happy with the back behavior.