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[doug.ca]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I've been using MC17 for quite some time and I've been very happy with the way it catalogs and plays music; however, I'm having a heck of a time getting videos (ripped DVDs specifically) to work properly over DLNA.

For playing DVDs, I'm using two different renderers: a Sony PS3 and an AverMedia AVerLife ExtremeVision Media Player. All my files are stored in folder structure on my Windows Home Server which also runs an MC library server. Also, I should also mention that these problems do not occur if I play the files using a local library on an MC client or by connecting directly to the fileserver through a Windows share.

First problem: With some, not all, ripped DVDs when played though the PS3, I get the Spanish soundtrack. I've fiddled with all the language-setting knobs I can find on both the PS3 and MC, but I can't force it to play in English. This problem does not occur when these same files are played through the ExtremeVision. This problem also occurs if I play the file using an MC client connected to the library server. In all cases, MediaInfo indicates that English is the first audio stream. The only way I've found to fix this is to re-rip with only the English soundtrack included.

Second problem: With all ripped DVDs when played through the ExtremeVision I get subtitles. These subtitles are being added by the ExtremeVision as they do not conform to the display settings on that box for subtitles (and subtitles are off). Again, I've twiddled all the knobs I can find on both MC and the media player, but to no avail - I can't get rid of these subtitles except to re-rip without them.

Third problem: With some, but not all DVDs, playback starts normally, but then skips a whole scene of the movie, moving directly to the next scene. This happens numerous times and consistently within a specific movie, but varies from movie to movie as to which scenes are skipped. Additionally, both the file size and length of the movie are indicated incorrectly by MC, although MediaInfo seems to indicate everything is fine, at least in terms of the length of the movie.

In this case, I tried re-ripping the DVD, but that didn't help. FixVTS doesn't correct the problem. IFOedit indicates that there are a number of problems with the file structure if I open the DVD directly, however, after ripping, it doesn't complain anymore (I used AnyDVD to rip DVDs). Also, this problem did not occur back when I was using PS3 Mediaserver to serve these files to the PS3. The only way I've found that I can fix this is by re-encoding the VOB files into a single VOB/mpg/mkv file.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about graphs, CODECs, Splitters, IFO files and so on to figure out how to correct these problems. Would some kind person please offer me some advice before go nuts?!?  

It would even be helpful to know if my situation is unique; if others are sending these files over the network to a PS3, etc. and not seeing these problems. Some examples are: Spanish soundtrack - The Green Lantern, Transformers 3; Skipping chapters: Beowulf, Thor, Star Trek.

Many thanks...

[doug.ca]

bump...

Is no body playing these movies using DLNA to a PS3 or using an AVerMedia media player?

[bob]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I've been using MC17 for quite some time and I've been very happy with the way it catalogs and plays music; however, I'm having a heck of a time getting videos (ripped DVDs specifically) to work properly over DLNA.

For playing DVDs, I'm using two different renderers: a Sony PS3 and an AverMedia AVerLife ExtremeVision Media Player. All my files are stored in folder structure on my Windows Home Server which also runs an MC library server. Also, I should also mention that these problems do not occur if I play the files using a local library on an MC client or by connecting directly to the fileserver through a Windows share.

First problem: With some, not all, ripped DVDs when played though the PS3, I get the Spanish soundtrack. I've fiddled with all the language-setting knobs I can find on both the PS3 and MC, but I can't force it to play in English. This problem does not occur when these same files are played through the ExtremeVision. This problem also occurs if I play the file using an MC client connected to the library server. In all cases, MediaInfo indicates that English is the first audio stream. The only way I've found to fix this is to re-rip with only the English soundtrack included.

If you show the "dvd video info" field for the movie in MC and click on it you can select the default language for playback.

Second problem: With all ripped DVDs when played through the ExtremeVision I get subtitles. These subtitles are being added by the ExtremeVision as they do not conform to the display settings on that box for subtitles (and subtitles are off). Again, I've twiddled all the knobs I can find on both MC and the media player, but to no avail - I can't get rid of these subtitles except to re-rip without them.

Are all of the subtitle and caption options in Advanced for DLNA servers in MC unchecked?
Perhaps the movie if being transcoded and the subs burned in?
You could try setting the option to "Never Convert" for video in the DLNA server options.

Third problem: With some, but not all DVDs, playback starts normally, but then skips a whole scene of the movie, moving directly to the next scene. This happens numerous times and consistently within a specific movie, but varies from movie to movie as to which scenes are skipped. Additionally, both the file size and length of the movie are indicated incorrectly by MC, although MediaInfo seems to indicate everything is fine, at least in terms of the length of the movie.

In this case, I tried re-ripping the DVD, but that didn't help. FixVTS doesn't correct the problem. IFOedit indicates that there are a number of problems with the file structure if I open the DVD directly, however, after ripping, it doesn't complain anymore (I used AnyDVD to rip DVDs). Also, this problem did not occur back when I was using PS3 Mediaserver to serve these files to the PS3. The only way I've found that I can fix this is by re-encoding the VOB files into a single VOB/mpg/mkv file.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about graphs, CODECs, Splitters, IFO files and so on to figure out how to correct these problems. Would some kind person please offer me some advice before go nuts?!?  

It would even be helpful to know if my situation is unique; if others are sending these files over the network to a PS3, etc. and not seeing these problems. Some examples are: Spanish soundtrack - The Green Lantern, Transformers 3; Skipping chapters: Beowulf, Thor, Star Trek.

Many thanks...

For ifo files in your library, MC plays those over DLNA without transcoding using the information from MC's 'dvd video info" field. You may want to try the most recent build of MC since there's been a fair amount of work in this area recently.

[doug.ca]

Thanks for your reply, bob. For reference, I'm currently using version 17.0.107.

If you show the "dvd video info" field for the movie in MC and click on it you can select the default language for playback.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. I looked for this option, but couldn't find it in any of the menus. How do you access it?

Are all of the subtitle and caption options in Advanced for DLNA servers in MC unchecked?
Perhaps the movie if being transcoded and the subs burned in?
You could try setting the option to "Never Convert" for video in the DLNA server options.

Yes, both Present Caption Resources and Present Subtitle Resources options are unchecked. I tried the Video/Conversion: Never Convert option, but it does not have any effect on the language, chapter skipping or subtitle problem on either the PS3 or AVerMedia player.

[bob]

Thanks for your reply, bob. For reference, I'm currently using version 17.0.107.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. I looked for this option, but couldn't find it in any of the menus. How do you access it?

It's a database field. You can show it by going to the video category and right-clicking on the bar with the database fields and enabling DVD Video Info.

Yes, both Present Caption Resources and Present Subtitle Resources options are unchecked. I tried the Video/Conversion: Never Convert option, but it does not have any effect on the language, chapter skipping or subtitle problem on either the PS3 or AVerMedia player.

If it's the ifo's you are playing and you can't disable the subs, perhaps we need a hard coded sub disable for ifo's.
It's also possible that a newer version would help with the skipping. Does the skipping happen with every movie or with specific titles?

[doug.ca]

bob,

The only place I can find the DVD Video Info field is under the Customize Display/Status/Advanced menu on the main status display (area to the right of the playback controls). However, when I enable it as a field within the alternative view and play a movie, it does not show anything. Am I missing something? Should I be able to access it elsewhere? If so, could I ask you to be more specific as to how I activate this field?

Both the language problems and the chapter skipping only happen with some DVD rips and only when playing to a DLNA renderer. They do not occur when playing directly from within the MC application on my PC. In addition to the language and chapter skipping issues that occur on the PS3, the AVerMedia player always displays subtitles when playing any DVD via DLNA. However, again, in the case of the AMP, none of these problems occur if the file is mounted via a network share and played.

Many of these same movies were previously played to the PS3 using the PS3mediaserver application. This application did not exhibit the same chapter skipping and language problems when playing the same DVD rips. Thus I'm concerned I've hit upon some, perhaps, obscure bug in MC's DLNA server.

[bob]

bob,

The only place I can find the DVD Video Info field is under the Customize Display/Status/Advanced menu on the main status display (area to the right of the playback controls). However, when I enable it as a field within the alternative view and play a movie, it does not show anything. Am I missing something? Should I be able to access it elsewhere? If so, could I ask you to be more specific as to how I activate this field?

Sorry, I'm not very good at putting this stuff into words sometimes (and it seems I always do these things differently from everyone else).
I choose the video category from the left tree (where is says "playing now", "audio", "images", "video". Then under video, I choose files so that I get a file detail listing on the right side.
I Right-Click on one of the fields, say name. Then I get a list of all of the possible fields that can be displayed with check marks next to the ones currently being displayed. If I scroll down to "dvd video info" and select it. Then the "dvd video info" field will show up. I can then change the values in that field for ifo's by clicking on it.

Both the language problems and the chapter skipping only happen with some DVD rips and only when playing to a DLNA renderer. They do not occur when playing directly from within the MC application on my PC. In addition to the language and chapter skipping issues that occur on the PS3, the AVerMedia player always displays subtitles when playing any DVD via DLNA. However, again, in the case of the AMP, none of these problems occur if the file is mounted via a network share and played.

If's unfortunate that it's not consistent in the way renderers that support both DLNA and samba share browsing handle video files. The reason is that when you browse to a share, there is no attempt to communicate the parameters of the video file (codecs, container, bitrate, subs, etc). The file is parsed by the player app (usually linux vlc or mplayer in the embeded firmware of the renderer).
When you play something with DLNA, these parameters are parsed by the server and sent to the client. Often, the DLNA/uPnP stack on the renderer (usually linux) will only accept certain types before passing the file off to the underlying player. It may not even be the same player that was used when browsing to a share. For the renderers that use an embeded linux, this isn't too cool. For the ones that implement non-linux firmware the information passed via DLNA is way more crucial.

Many of these same movies were previously played to the PS3 using the PS3mediaserver application. This application did not exhibit the same chapter skipping and language problems when playing the same DVD rips. Thus I'm concerned I've hit upon some, perhaps, obscure bug in MC's DLNA server.

PS3mediaserver has very much more fine grained control of the transcoding process and it's tailored to specific renderers. Our approach is to use a more general solution that will work to most renderers at the same time integrating the transcoding into MC instead of using external programs like PS3ms does.

I've seen stuttering on the PS3 when video is too high of a bitrate for the PS3 to support in DLNA. It's possible that PS3ms is transcoding those down to a lower bitrate. You might want to check when you play something to the PS3 with PS3ms to see if it's transcoding...

[doug.ca]

No, I think your description was fine. The problem seems to be that this parameter, at least for me, only exists in the top status window's custom configuration dialog. There you see:

Code: [Select]

...
[Disc #]
[Distributor]
[DLNA Server Info]
[DLNA Video Info]
[Edit Info]
...However, on the Files title bar, as you describe, the available parameters are different, and also formatted differently (they're not surrounded by [..]'s). These are the parameters that appear in the Show All Tags window. There you see:

Code: [Select]

...
Disc #
Distributor
Download Button
Duration
Editor
Encoding Settings
...So, I think you can see my confusion.  Is there something I'm missing here? As far as I know, my installation is generic. I haven't played with any custom tags, etc.

You mentioned the idea of putting in a flag to disable ifo subtitles. Is that practical? If AVerMedia is not implementing the parsing of some DLNA parameter correctly, then I don't think JR should be responsible for putting in a patch to correct their problem. If you can give me some idea of what the problem likely is, I'm happy to take it up with them directly.

With regards to the PS3ms, shortly after I installed MC I had a problem (unrelated) with corrupted OS files on my WHS which ran both applications. I ended up reinstalling the WHS OS and MC only, hoping it would provide me with better functionality than PSms; I didn't bother to reinstall the PS3ms. So to test the PS3ms app, I'd need to go back and reinstall it.

My recollection is that there were times that the movie would stutter, particularly at start-up, but then it would usually settle down and be fine afterwards. It may have been transcoding, I'm not sure -- and I'm not sure I'd know how to tell anyway. The CPU in my WHS is an old 1.8 GHz Athlon and would at times max out while PS3ms was running. However, after I removed some WHS plugin's I had installed, it typically performed much better.

Would having a copy of the ifo/vob folder to analyze be of any help? If worst comes to worst, I can always repackage my videos into MKV files and strip out the subtitles and non-english soundtracks. However, I'd prefer a cleaner solution if possible.

[bob]

I'm running a bit short of time for this week so I'll get to your other comments next week however here is what my "dvd video info" looks like.

[doug.ca]

Hmmm, I don't have access to that field anywhere but in the main status bar.

For interest, I tried entering it as an expression, but the resulting column was blank. Since I started with v17, is this field perhaps an artifact from an earlier version that is not enabled in now in v17?

[Richee]

Hmmm, I don't have access to that field anywhere but in the main status bar.

I too can only find "dvd video info" in the main status bar and it seems to have no effect
entering it there.
I suspect bob created the field somehow, so it is not part of Media Center install.

I all but gave up on DLNA since I have had similar problems with movies skipping chapters,etc.
So I bought a cheap computer and located it under my TV. This way I can use all the features
of Media Center and not be limited by DLNA.

Rich
 

[doug.ca]

I all but gave up on DLNA since I have had similar problems with movies skipping chapters,etc.
So I bought a cheap computer and located it under my TV. This way I can use all the features
of Media Center and not be limited by DLNA.

Rich, I hear you... and it's nice to hear that someone else was having similar problems to mine. I was beginning to think I was out in left field somewhere. Misery loves company...

The idea of building a dedicated HTPC has crossed my mind on more more than a few occasions. Like you, with all the problems I'm having getting DLNA devices to cooperate with each other has turned what should be simple plug and play matter into a real engineering task. The problem is I have two PS3's in the house (keeps the kids from fighting) and it would be really nice to actually have these things work the way they're supposed to.  The AVerMedia player was bought as a cheap experiment that i was first planning to use for simply sending audio to a system in our dining room for dinner parties; I'm still experimenting with it as a video player for other locations in the house and, if it worked out, I'd buy more of this type of device as media players are so inexpensive these days and I'd like to avoid spending $$$ on a dedicated computer even though the HTPC features of MC are tempting.

[bob]

Hmmm, I don't have access to that field anywhere but in the main status bar.

For interest, I tried entering it as an expression, but the resulting column was blank. Since I started with v17, is this field perhaps an artifact from an earlier version that is not enabled in now in v17?

The "dvd video info" field is not a tag, it's a database field. It's only filled in for .ifo dvd rips (so you can select soundtrack, etc). The idea behind it is that you should be able to play things to DLNA devices using the same choices you'd have when you played the same item locally in MC.

[doug.ca]

The "dvd video info" field is not a tag, it's a database field. It's only filled in for .ifo dvd rips (so you can select soundtrack, etc).

Understood, but how do you access it then? As I said, it does not appear as any option that I can find in any of the right-click menus associated with the video fields.

[bob]

It turns out that I can see that field on a particular video because I was using it before we started changing the logic. It's currently under transition and isn't functional. Sorry for the confusion.

[doug.ca]

HI Bob,

My apologies, I've sort of let this thread die, but I did want to follow up with a few more things...

It turns out that I can see that field on a particular video because I was using it before we started changing the logic. It's currently under transition and isn't functional. Sorry for the confusion.

Did this ever get resolved? Will/has this feature been implemented yet?

Second, with regards to movies that are skipping chapters when played via DLNA, two recent movies that are doing this are: Captain America and Thor. Hopefully, someone has a local copy of one of these movie that you can use to analyze this problem?

Cheers

[doug.ca]

Second, with regards to movies that are skipping chapters when played via DLNA, two recent movies that are doing this are: Captain America and Thor. Hopefully, someone has a local copy of one of these movie that you can use to analyze this problem?

Just for my own sanity , has anyone successfully streamed these two particular movies using DLNA to a renderer, like the PS3, without experiencing the chapter skipping problems I'm experiencing?

[bob]

Just for my own sanity , has anyone successfully streamed these two particular movies using DLNA to a renderer, like the PS3, without experiencing the chapter skipping problems I'm experiencing?

Ordered a copy of Thor, should be here in a couple of days...

[bob]

It turns out that I can see that field on a particular video because I was using it before we started changing the logic. It's currently under transition and isn't functional. Sorry for the confusion.

This one's still in the pipeline...

[doug.ca]

Much appreciated. I'll look forward to hearing your findings. Enjoy the movie; I thought it was pretty good. 

[JohnT]

I've made some progress on this, the latest development build fixed the "wrong soundtrack" issue you had with "Green Lantern".  Now I'm looking into the chapter skipping and subtitle issues.

[doug.ca]

I've made some progress on this, the latest development build fixed the "wrong soundtrack" issue you had with "Green Lantern".  Now I'm looking into the chapter skipping and subtitle issues.

Thanks JohnT. I installed v17.0.170 to test the DLNA fix noted in the v17.0.168 development build. Unfortunately, the problem with the Spanish soundtrack still exists when playing Green Lantern over DLNA to a PS3. However, the good news is that the problem has been partially corrected; the other movie I mentioned, Transformers 3, now plays with the correct English soundtrack. So, progress has been made. Thanks!

[doug.ca]

Thanks JohnT. I installed v17.0.170 to test the DLNA fix noted in the v17.0.168 development build. Unfortunately, the problem with the Spanish soundtrack still exists when playing Green Lantern over DLNA to a PS3. However, the good news is that the problem has been partially corrected; the other movie I mentioned, Transformers 3, now plays with the correct English soundtrack. So, progress has been made. Thanks!

Hang on. I restarted MC and now Green Lantern is playing correctly with the English soundtrack. However, if I stop the movie and restart it, it plays with the Spanish soundtrack thereafter. The problem is, I can't reliably determine or recreate the sequence of events that selects the English soundtrack. For example, I just tried stopping MC and resetting the PS3's media connection, but it insists on speaking to me in Spanish. Transformers seems unaffected and plays in English regardless of any stopping and restarting.

[Matt]

I restarted MC and now Green Lantern is playing correctly with the English soundtrack. However, if I stop the movie and restart it, it plays with the Spanish soundtrack thereafter. The problem is, I can't reliably determine or recreate the sequence of events that selects the English soundtrack.

If you play the movie inside Media Center, does it ever switch languages?  Or is this only over DLNA to the PS3?

[doug.ca]

I've never noticed any of the problems described in this thread when playing movies directly within MC. The problems only manifest themselves when I stream to a DLNA renderer, like the PS3 or AverMedia Media Player. The language problems and chapter skipping issues occur when streaming to either the PS3 or the AM MP. The subtitle problem only occurs on the AM MP. I haven't tested the latest build on the AM MP to see if it makes any difference to the language issue. I can do that tonight and get back to you.

Cheers

[doug.ca]

... The problems only manifest themselves when I stream to a DLNA renderer, like the PS3 or AverMedia Media Player. The language problems and chapter skipping issues occur when streaming to either the PS3 or the AM MP. The subtitle problem only occurs on the AM MP. ...

I just tested build 180 and I'm very happy to report that the DVD chapter skipping issue appears to have been completely fixed! THANK YOU!

Unfortunately, I'm still experiencing the other two problems -- wrong language track and subtitles always on -- yet there has been some improvements...

The PS3 still insists on playing the soundrack to the Green Lantern in Spanish and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to change its mind. Unfortunately, I've not been able to recreate the conditions I saw on June 11th where I somehow managed to get it to play the English soundtrack for a time. Neither the audiotrack or subtitle functions seem to be aware of any other options. The only good news is that this movie, so far, appears to be the only one still affected by this issue, which is, if nothing else, makes it a manageable problem.

Also, I finally got around to checking the playback on the AV MP and is now playing the correct English soundtrack. In fact, the option menu allow me to select any of the three soundtracks to play: English, French or Spanish. However, I still can't turn off the subtitles; the system indicate them as off and provides no other options to select from.

Any suggestions?

[JohnT]

The problem with Green Lantern playing in Spanish should be fixed with an upcoming build - look for build 179 or higher.
I can't reproduce the subtitle problem here.  It almost seems like a bug in the AverMedia firmware if it says subtitles are not enabled and yet displays them anyway.  We could look into filtering out the subtitle streams.

[doug.ca]

Thanks. I might point out that the Spanish problem still exists with build 180, but I'll keep testing.

I'm certainly happy and willing to take the subtitle problem up with AverMedia - I've suspected the problem is at their end all along. Are there any technical factors that I could include in my trouble ticket that might assist them in diagnosing the problem? For example, I recall reading somewhere about certain DLNA defaults -- perhaps they are not handling one of these correctly that deals with subtitles? Anyway, if you have any hints or ideas, let me know.

Thanks!

[JohnT]

Thanks. I might point out that the Spanish problem still exists with build 180, but I'll keep testing.

Oops, try 181 or higher. 

I'm certainly happy and willing to take the subtitle problem up with AverMedia - I've suspected the problem is at their end all along. Are there any technical factors that I could include in my trouble ticket that might assist them in diagnosing the problem? For example, I recall reading somewhere about certain DLNA defaults -- perhaps they are not handling one of these correctly that deals with subtitles? Anyway, if you have any hints or ideas, let me know.

Thanks!

As a test, try creating playback "particles" from the DVD movie (right-click on movie, select "Stacks / Advanced / Auto Create BD/DVD Title Particles" from menu).  Then try playing the main title particle (first in Media Center, then on the AverMedia device).  Let me know how this works for you.

[doug.ca]

OK, running the Particles auto-create created another copy of the movie in the library called "Green Lantern - Title 1". Playing either of this version or the original results in the same subtitle display problem on the AverMedia player. I've submitted a bug report on this problem to AM. Also, just out of interest, it does not correct the Spanish language problem experienced on the PS3.

I'll check out the next release when it becomes available.

[doug.ca]

An odd, but related problem just occurred...

Now that the ifo play problem has been fixed, I was in the process of doing an Update Tags from Library operation to correct the movie play lengths indicated in the Duration field. I found that if I didn't do this, those movies simply stopped when they reached the duration indicated by the MC library. At the same time I was also playing around with the auto-particle create to see if any other movies would create any interesting files. (This is all being done on my test server)

I did one of these two operations to the movie War Horse (likely the auto-particle, since the movie was otherwise OK) and the size and duration fields have now disappeared! The movie still plays fine from within MC, however, streaming via DLNA fails indicating the file is empty. I've tried deleting it from the library and reimporting it, but this does not correct the size and duration problem.

Any suggestions?

[doug.ca]

[...]
 I've submitted a bug report on this problem to AM.
[...]

AverMedia's response:

Dear Customer!

Please be noted that O272 Averlife Extremevision Media Player receives the stream from JRiver Media Server our device only reads/displays the subtitle already included in the media stream.
We guess in this situation you have to find a way to disable DNL subtitles on your media server.
We also suspect that the DVD are transcoded content with subtitles included already.
Is there any setting on your DNL server such as 'Don't convert' video files?

Best regards
Avermedia CS

[doug.ca]

Oops, try 181 or higher. 
As a test, try creating playback "particles" from the DVD movie (right-click on movie, select "Stacks / Advanced / Auto Create BD/DVD Title Particles" from menu).  Then try playing the main title particle (first in Media Center, then on the AverMedia device).  Let me know how this works for you.

I just tried 182 - the Green Lantern soundtrack still plays in Spanish. 

However, I did manage to find the magic incantation that plays the movie once, and only once, in English! I set the Video Convert option for the PS3 to Never Convert. Then, the first time you play the movie the soundtrack is in English. Stop the movie and restart it, or play another movie and go back the first movie, or even stop and restart MC - it doesn't matter - it insists on playing the soundtrack thereafter in Spanish.

[doug.ca]

AverMedia's response:

[...]
Is there any setting on your DNL server such as 'Don't convert' video files?

Best regards
Avermedia CS

Just tested the AM using the video Don't Convert option. This fixes the problem with the subtitles always being displayed! 

However... now my BDMV of Batman Begins no longer appears in the list of movies on the AM.  One step forward, one step back...

[bob]

The Batman BDMV likely vanished since the AM can't play the format without conversion.
A simple workaround is to create a second server and set it to always convert with the first set to never convert.

I'd like to track the sub issue down a little more. There are multiple ways that subs can get done with DLNA devices.
When we transcode, we "burn" the subs into the movie if you had them turned on when you were viewing the movie in MC. If not, they are not burned in.
Another way to get subs, some devices support separate subtitle files with extensions that are either .srt or .sub and those subtitle files need to have the same name as the the movie and need to be in the same directory as the movie.

There are 2 settings under Advanced that control whether the .srt/.sub subs are presented as resources. One is "present subtitle resources" and the second is "present caption resources".
You could try turning both of those off (if they are not already).

Finally, even if they are off, the renderer can still specifically request them and we'll serve them but in this case, the renderer should have a function to turn off that request.