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[madfloyd]

Forgive me, but while I'm guessing this has been covered, I can't seem to answer my questions via search of FAQs.

I'm new to JRiver.

I have a huge song library.  It's all imported and for the most part working nicely.

Only issues are when I make changes to my music files. I don't make any changes via JRiver, so I attempted to re-import (via the one folder option) the entire library, thinking that JRiver would catch any changes to artwork or tags.

That didn't work, so then I tried the Library->Update from Tags option (highlighting all 7k albums).  This fixed many things, but not all.

What I'm left with are 'ghost' tracks, where I've corrected (renamed) a folder containing album tracks.  JRiver thinks there are now twice as many tracks - i.e. duplicates of each one.  Of course half of them won't play and I don't want them in the album list.  How the heck do I get rid of them without clearing the entire library and re-importing?  With Foobar, I just told it to re-scan my library and it would catch any art or tag changes, deletions, etc.  Is there some similar and straightforward with JRiver?

Thanks in advance, this is driving me nuts!

[MrC]

Do you have Fix broken links set in Tools > Import > Configure Auto-Import?

[madfloyd]

Do you have Fix broken links set in Tools > Import > Configure Auto-Import?

Yes I do (with Protect Network Files ON - although I did try turning if off to no avail).

[MrHaugen]

You should really (yes, I mean really) do the renaming, moving and such in MC. It's quite easy with the Rename and Copy tool, and you can also do all the moving and renaming directly in the Tree in MC, and MC will change all accordingly.

I can understand that people want to tag their files initially in other programs, as Yabb is not totally up to date yet on all music. But to use other software, or just Explorer to do tings outside of MC is really hazardous imo.

[MrC]

So here's a function that will help you identify items that are missing, under the presumption that you want to remove the entries from the library.  Enter it in the search box:

[=ismissing()]=1

[madfloyd]

You should really (yes, I mean really) do the renaming, moving and such in MC. It's quite easy with the Rename and Copy tool, and you can also do all the moving and renaming directly in the Tree in MC, and MC will change all accordingly.

I can understand that people want to tag their files initially in other programs, as Yabb is not totally up to date yet on all music. But to use other software, or just Explorer to do tings outside of MC is really hazardous imo.

You're kidding, right?   I wouldn't get very far using JRiver - I have over 100k files. I don't use JRiver exclusively and there are top shelf apps for grabbing cover art, fixing tags etc.

I get the impression that Fix Broken Links is supposed to handle this, but is bugged.  This makes more sense to me than accept that a program that's been around for as long as it has and is pretty darn sophisticated can't handle this basic functionality.

[JimH]

You might reconsider and try some of the MC tools for renaming.  They are under File/Library Tools.

[rjm]

You're kidding, right?   I wouldn't get very far using JRiver - I have over 100k files. I don't use JRiver exclusively and there are top shelf apps for grabbing cover art, fixing tags etc.

I felt exactly the same way when I started using MC 8 years ago. I now have 270,000 files and MC is my primary tool for tagging and renaming all media types. I still use other tools from time to time but MC is the master.

[madfloyd]

Thanks for the responses.

Part of my reluctance is that I'm running JRiver on a laptop that sits on a shelf in my rack (I control it via JRemote which doesn't offer any tag editing).  Kneeling at the laptop to do anything extensive isn't fun.  :-)

So I'm now trying a different route - I've added the three main network drives of music to the 'folders to watch' thinking that the 'fix broken links' might only apply to this method.

So far I'm over 30 minutes and counting... hopefully it's the slow-but-sure method.  :-)

[madfloyd]

Well I've concluded that JRiver isn't very smart when it comes to library functionality.  It takes hours to read my music collection (where Foobar only takes 5 minutes) and can't seem to piece together that a file that no longer exists shouldn't be part of the library (Foobar has no issue with this).

To go and manually delete every track that has a ghost entry would take days.

It's much easier to clear the library and re-import (that only takes a few hours).

To think that I will have to do this every time I update cover art or clean any tags (assuming I do it outside of JRiver) is pretty darn depressing.

I'm speechless.

[Scolex]

Well I've concluded that JRiver isn't very smart when it comes to library functionality.  It takes hours to read my music collection (where Foobar only takes 5 minutes) and can't seem to piece together that a file that no longer exists shouldn't be part of the library (Foobar has no issue with this).

To go and manually delete every track that has a ghost entry would take days.

Deleting files with broken links only takes a few minutes even if there are tons of them. Go to your Audio section and type [=ismissing()]=1 in the search then delete the results.

It's much easier to clear the library and re-import (that only takes a few hours).

Not sure what is going on but it should only take a matter of minutes to import a library of 100k files.

To think that I will have to do this every time I update cover art or clean any tags (assuming I do it outside of JRiver) is pretty darn depressing.

There is really know need to do any management outside of MC it is very capable of doing virtually anything. Don't know how just ask.

I'm speechless.

Me too but it is because of what I know MC can do, not what I think it can't.

[vagskal]

I've added the three main network drives of music to the 'folders to watch' thinking that the 'fix broken links' might only apply to this method.

This is what I do and it works perfectly for me when there is an external change of file name/path or tags. Changes are picked up automatically at least within a couple of minutes. There is only one issue with tags that I am aware of: if I delete a tag using an external tool the tag is not cleared in MC.

As for cover art, you will have to explain in more detail what the issue is. Do you have embedded cover art? Do you also have a folder.jpg with cover art? What are you changing using external tools?

PS. You might want to consider remote desktop, vlc or some other remote control program for your laptop.

[Alex B]

Fix Broken Links: Yes - should work.

Fix Broken Links: Yes (protect network drives) - seems to sometimes be too protective. Despite the name it is designed to keep any files that are on an inaccessible drive (for example, on an external drive that is powered off). I just experimented with it and some folder name changes apparently caused it to think that the missing files "needed protection" even though the root of the drive and the drive letter were still accessible.

The "Fix Broken Links" feature works only when Auto-Import runs. You can either set Auto-Import to always run in background or disable the "run in background" setting and start it manually when preferred (Tool > Import > Run Auto-Import Now). Fix Broken Links is independent from the defined Auto-Import search paths. I.e. it always maintains the complete database.

To speed up the import process you can disable the "Analyze Audio", "Build Thumbnails", and "Get Cover Art" settings. In addition the background importer runs as a low priority task. Auto-Import is much faster when it is started manually by using the Run Auto-Import Now feature. You can add a Run Auto-Import Now button to the top or bottom Toolbar for easier access (you can find my instructions for configuring the buttons here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=69023.msg464849#msg464849 ).

"Update Library (from tags)" does not import files or remove missing files. It simply re-reads the file tags of the selected files and updates the library, aka MC's database, accordingly. It is designed to preserve any existing data that is not directly coming from the current file tags. MC has always been able to maintain data that is not stored in physical file tags. For example, in the library field specific options you can enable or disable tag writing for each library field individually. Another example would be the file formats and media types that do not support tagging. MC has no problems with storing their metadata only in the database.

Auto-Import has the option to re-read tags whenever the files have changed (Update for external changes), but it checks the last modification date stamp. Only the files with a newer last modified file system value than the value in the Last Modified library field will be re-read. Also this feature works faster when the Run Auto-Import Now command is issued.

[Alex B]

I noticed that so far this discussion probably does not really help the JRiver developers. They have always been very responsive and try to fix the reported problems quickly. The database and performance issues usually have top priority. However they would need to have a detailed bug report and reproducible example of each problem.

I'll experiment a bit more with my "protect network drives" issue and try to provide a proper report.

[madfloyd]

Guys,

Thanks again for the responses.  Reading my last response I sound rather cranky and insulting.  I was tired and I apologize.

I have the 'protect network drives' option on and I will try it again with the protect option off.  When I last did the auto-import, it *said* it fixed a number of broken links but it didn't fix my test cases (a couple albums that have the duplicate/invalid tracks).  Is it possible that MC will only fix an external link where the entire album is not available and not a situation where there is a valid copy of the album (and therefore it remains in the library) but doesn't catch the fact that some of the tracks are broken links?

Regarding the length of time it takes to do an import, it will get through the songs in about 31 minutes, but then the artwork pass starts and that goes very very slow.  However, what seems to be the slowest is the tag updating that it does afterwards (if the library isn't brand new); this takes about an hour.

Regarding an alternative to kneeling at my laptop:  I have installed MC on another machine and it seems to let me access both the local library it created PLUS the one on my laptop.  Can I switch over to the laptop library and safely use MC to do the library maintenance (e.g. editing tags, artwork etc) or will it not store those changes in the laptop database?

Thanks again for being so willing to help.

[MrC]

Regarding the length of time it takes to do an import, it will get through the songs in about 31 minutes, but then the artwork pass starts and that goes very very slow.  However, what seems to be the slowest is the tag updating that it does afterwards (if the library isn't brand new); this takes about an hour.

This sounds like antivirus software issues.  If you can configure your A/V to both 1) not scan the music folders, and 2) not perform realtime scanning on Media Center executables, you'll probably see much snappier results.  These are typically two forms of exclusions you configure.

[madfloyd]

I don't run anti-virus, so don't think that's it.

Any thoughts on my other question:

Regarding an alternative to kneeling at my laptop:  I have installed MC on another machine and it seems to let me access both the local library it created PLUS the one on my laptop.  Can I switch over to the laptop library and safely use MC to do the library maintenance (e.g. editing tags, artwork etc) or will it not store those changes in the laptop database?

Thanks.

[MrC]

So, no Microsoft Security Essentials installed and running then?

Read about Library Server, in case you haven't see these:

   http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server
   http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server_Sync

[madfloyd]

So, no Microsoft Security Essentials installed and running then?

Read about Library Server, in case you haven't see these:

   http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server
   http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server_Sync

Yes, I did have Security Essentials running.  Turned it off and it sped up immensely - many thanks.


I did a fair amount of experimenting with Library Server and the related sync with no luck.    I even cleared the local library on my desktop machine, choosing to load up the laptop library.   I had to enter security id and password and did this successfully.  Made a bunch of tag changes using MC, but none of these changes were effected on the library on the laptop (which I only noticed when I later used the laptop as the server for playing music on my main audio system.   Any ideas what could be wrong?

[wig]

I did a fair amount of experimenting with Library Server and the related sync with no luck.    I even cleared the local library on my desktop machine, choosing to load up the laptop library.   I had to enter security id and password and did this successfully.  Made a bunch of tag changes using MC, but none of these changes were effected on the library on the laptop (which I only noticed when I later used the laptop as the server for playing music on my main audio system.   Any ideas what could be wrong?

Look at Tools > Options Media Network > Client Options > Auto sync with server. That should be checked. Or you can force a manual sync with File > Library > Sync Changes with Library Server.