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[doulos]

Hello,

today I tried to import my audio files into MC, which consist mostly of FLAC image files with accompanying CUE sheets. I had previously had rather good experiences with XBMC on the same files - everything was correctly catalogued, and even cover art was retrieved correctly in most cases- Where that didnt work, correcting it manually was easy. I should mention that I created the files with EAC with embedded images.

The performance of MC on these same files, however, was rather disppointing. Some files I find catalogued N times (same album, individual tracks?), others come with the wrong cover art, still others with none at all. Manually fixing these issues is at least non-obvious for me. Playing the first album (Pink Floyds "Dark Side of the Moon", represented with the cover art image of Pink Floyds "Animals", sigh), playback suddnly stalls after the 2nd piece, but continues a while later. This is completely broken IMO.

It seems to me this mess is too big to try to fix it manually. What is the recommended way of archiving music for MC that yields optimal results in terms of playback quality and library metadata availablility?

thanks,
christian

[doulos]

just looked closer at the "Dark Side of the Moon" album I mentioned. Tracks 1 and 2 have lengths between 3 and 4 minutes, track 3 is shown as having > 43 minutes. That is about as long as the whole album. Seems MC cannot deal with these file formats..

[doulos]

and even more: I got error messages about files that couldnt be catalogued, and others that couldnt be "tagged". Is MC trying to write to my files?? Are there any logs where I can look up in detail what happened?

[Matt]

If you use CUE files, make sure you import only the CUE and not big files that the CUE file points to (FLAC in your case).

[doulos]

what do you mean? I just pointed MC to a directory where all the files are located (some in subdirs). I assumed MC would do the right thing.

[Matt]

To help with the cover art, it would help if you describe how you store the cover art.

Is it embedded in the FLAC file, or sitting next to it as folder.jpg, or something else?

[JimH]

I think you said that the art is embedded in the files, but if you're not seeing the art, that may not always be true.

In cases where you think the art is wrong, take a look at folder.jpg.  It may not be the right file.

If you have both cue files and the flac files mixed together, you should just import the cue files, as Matt says.

It might be easiest to clear the library and begin again, setting the file types and folders you want.  In Library Manager, you can clear the library.  Or you could just set up a new library.

[Matt]

Jim gave good advice.

Also, it might help to show the 'Image File' column and look at exactly what Media Center is using.

[doulos]

To help with the cover art, it would help if you describe how you store the cover art.

Is it embedded in the FLAC file, or sitting next to it as folder.jpg, or something else?

I am pretty sure I have it embedded in most files. In one case that I can point out, however, I have several FLAC files whose names start with the name of the band, namely "Pink Floyd", followed by the album name, like "Pink Floyd - Dark Sie of the Moon". Along with them, I have a file "Pink Floyd.jpg", which happens to hold the cover of the "Pink Floyd - Animals" album. Now ALL Pink Floyd albums show up with the same cover - namely, the Animals cover.

I really dont want to debug this thing - I spend all my days debugging software. What I am looking for is an easy way to get my albums catalogued so I can access the metadata (cover art, descriptions), and get optimal playback (identical to playing the CD - no gaps, no loss in sound quality). Is there a recommendation?

How do I import "just the CUE files"? All I can find is options to import directories..
thanks,
chris

[JimH]

In Auto Import, add a directory or select one, then edit.  There you can set file types.

The Pink Floyd files are probably all in one directory, with one folder.jpg.

You can right click on any file or files and do Cover Art/Get from Internet.

This is probably not a bug of any sort.

For audio setup, see the "Getting Started" link in my signature.

[doulos]

This is probably not a bug of any sort.

hmm. I have to correct myself - the files do mostly NOT contain embedded covers (just had a look with MP3TAG). I assumed they did, because XBMC, operating on the same files, obviously pulled the right covers from the internet based on the other metadata. The .jpg file I mentioned is not called folder.jpg, but rather "Pink Floyd.jpg". MC seems to pick it based on name similarity.

What also remains is the issue with the messed up track info. I just looked at the CUE sheet with MP3TAG. It shows obviously different - and correct - data. As I said, with MC, the second song is as long as in fact the whole album is. On playing back, I also get strange effects.

[doulos]

I have a suspicion with regard to the messud up track info: it seems MC is mixing together the CUE sheet and the FLAC file. The FLAC file is tagged with the name of the second song, so that would explain why that song (which actually appears twice - once with correct length from the CUE sheet, and once with wrong length from FLAC) is so long. If MCs import algorithm was a little smarter, it would realize that the FLAC file is referenced from the CUE sheet, and not import it again.

It seems getting the content correctly into the library is not simply a matter of pointing at a directory. I did not find much in this regard following the "getting started" link.

[doulos]

I am somewhat lost. I have cleared the library, and started anew by configuring auto-import. I chose Audio-only for the whole directory tree, and selected "CUE sheets only". What I got was nothing - empty library. I did this twice with identical results, and then proceeded to select the file types FLAC and CUE. After over an hour of waiting for the import to complete, I looked at the results - and found that all FLAC files had been imported as one single item - no individual tracks. The CUE files hadd obviously been ignored. This is useless.

Could someone please tell me a way to import FLAC images with accompanying CUE sheets?

[MrC]

When you remove an item from the library only, MC remembers this so that it doesn't re-import these same files.  In your Auto-Import settings, you can tell MC to re-import previously ignored files.  Be sure this is configured as you wish, to re-import.

Set the file type to import CUE only.

Set your Auto-Import folder path to be lower in the tree so you can test quickly with one artist.  When that works, change the folder path to be the higher level.

CUE support is a little weak in MC, mostly because so few people use it.

[doulos]

When you remove an item from the library only, MC remembers this so that it doesn't re-import these same files.  In your Auto-Import settings, you can tell MC to re-import previously ignored files.  Be sure this is configured as you wish, to re-import.

that is what I did, with no results. I also unchecked the other option, without results.

Set the file type to import CUE only.

thats what I tried. No results

I then went ahead, cleaned the whole library, did an import with CUE sheets only selected, and lo behold, the albums were recognized. For at least one of them, I still get 9 items (tracks 7-11 as one item, and the rest of the tracks spread out individually). The "Dark Sie of the Moon" album seems to have been recognized correctly this time (havent played it though).

CUE support is a little weak in MC, mostly because so few people use it.

whoa, what exactly do you mean by weak? What functionality am I losing, and what can go wrong? There are quite a few options where I wonder whether MC will do the right thing. Just deleted an item that was obvously wrong (tracks from 2 records combined in one "unknown item"), and was told that 59 files would be deleted! I was courageous and went ahead, only 3 files went away.  I feel a little like I'm stepping through a minefield..

It is exactly for this reason that I asked what was the recommended way of storing music. I have now spent 1 day experimenting, and thats what I wanted to avoid..

[MrC]

I can't define "weak" for you; I'm only interpreting what I've read over the years here.  It hasn't been a high priority, but that's not to say the developers won't address your concerns.

i don't recall if you've read this, and the related links:

  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Cue_Files

[doulos]

yes, I read that before. My CUE files are always co-located with the FLAC files, and they are generated by EAC, which I thought was a well-established tool. I meanwhile found another messed-up album (PULSE CD1 from Pink Floyd), which I will try to work out - I hope I dont have to clear the whole library again to get it re-imported

Still waiting for someone to tell me what is the recommended/proven way to store music..

[MrC]

Removing entries in MC is trivial - don't sweat that part.

Probably you might have to share the CUE and FLAC so that someone can try to reproduce.  I realize it's big.

[Matt]

I just tested several CUE files and they worked nicely for me.

However, if you have a CUE file that doesn't import properly, please email it to logs at jriver dot com.  You only need to mail the CUE, not the underlying music file.

Thanks.

[doulos]

Removing entries in MC is trivial - don't sweat that part.

as I said, after simply removing from the library, I was not able to re-import, no matter how I set the "ignore" switch. It wasn't until I cleaned the whole library that I could re-import.

[doulos]

I just tested several CUE files and they worked nicely for me.

I can confirm that - I also have several that worked - but also a few that didnt. I have mailed them to the address you mention. One instance, however, is particularily interesting. The excerpt below shows a CUE file that stems from one FLAC image, but has a track where the PERFORMER differs from the PERFORMER on the album level. This gets imported as 2 albums - one with one single track (track 2, performer "Cannonball Rag"), and another one with the remaining tracks.

PERFORMER "Tommy Emmanuel"
TITLE "The Mystery"
FILE "Tommy Emmanuel - The Mystery.flac" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Cantina Senese"
    PERFORMER "Tommy Emmanuel"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Cannonball Rag"
    PERFORMER "Gameshow Rag"
    INDEX 00 01:53:72
    INDEX 01 01:53:73
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Mystery"
    PERFORMER "Tommy Emmanuel"
    INDEX 01 04:20:28

[Matt]

I tried the Pink Floyd CUE you sent.

Code: [Select]

REM GENRE "Progressive Rock"
REM DATE 1995
REM DISCID AA10D30D
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.99pb4"
PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
TITLE "P.U.L.S.E - CD two"
FILE "Pink Floyd - P.U.L.S.E - CD two.flac" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Speak to Me"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Breathe"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 02:30:18
    INDEX 01 02:30:20
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "On the Run"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 05:03:64
    INDEX 01 05:03:65
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Time"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 08:51:58
    INDEX 01 08:51:60
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Great Gig in the Sky"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 15:38:28
    INDEX 01 15:38:30
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "Money"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 21:30:28
    INDEX 01 21:30:30
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "Us and Them"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 30:24:40
    INDEX 01 30:24:42
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "Any Colour You Like"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 37:22:35
    INDEX 01 37:22:37
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Brain Damage"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 40:43:40
    INDEX 01 40:43:42
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "Eclipse"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 44:29:38
    INDEX 01 44:29:40
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    TITLE "Wish You Were Here"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 47:07:08
    INDEX 01 47:07:10
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    TITLE "Comfortably Numb"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 53:42:08
    INDEX 01 53:42:10
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    TITLE "Run Like Hell"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 00 63:11:28
    INDEX 01 63:11:30
It imports as 13 tracks as expected, with nice tag values.

If you drag that CUE directly from Explorer to Playing Now, what do you see?

I'm wondering if you should empty your library (Tree > Playing Now > Playing From > [Current Library] > Clear Library) and try importing only the CUE files.

[doulos]

I tried the Pink Floyd CUE you sent.
It imports as 13 tracks as expected, with nice tag values.

actually, I looked at it today, and it was displayed correctly. Maybe this was only during import? Weird! However, the other (Tommy Emmanuel) record still shows the erroneous state, I verified this very moment

If you drag that CUE directly from Explorer to Playing Now, what do you see?

if I open the CUE sheet through the file explorer, it is handled correctly - even the Tommy Emmanuel one.

I'm wondering if you should empty your library (Tree > Playing Now > Playing From > [Current Library] > Clear Library) and try importing only the CUE files.

not again, I've done exactly that before (read above)

thanks,
chris

[Matt]

However, the other (Tommy Emmanuel) record still shows the erroneous state, I verified this very moment

It's fine for files from the same album to have different artists.  This is typical of a mix CD.

As long as the album is in its own folder, and no other albums are in the folder, Media Center should automatically use (Multiple Artists) as the 'Album Artist (auto)'.

You can manually enter something in the 'Album Artist' field for these discs if you like (or if the automatic album analyzer isn't working for you).

not again, I've done exactly that before (read above)

Picking files and doing 'Delete' is different than clearing the library.  However, it sounds like you might have most things working now in which case there's no need for this.

[doulos]

It's fine for files from the same album to have different artists.  This is typical of a mix CD

thats what I thought, too. However, MC is messing this up when doing library import for CUE sheets. PLease try for yourself!

As long as the album is in its own folder, and no other albums are in the folder

I am keeping several albums in the same folder, each consisting of a CUE sheet and a FLAC file. This does not seem to pose a problem with most albums - only the ones I mentioned

Media Center should automatically use (Multiple Artists) as the 'Album Artist (auto)'.

it should, but it doesn't.

Picking files and doing 'Delete' is different than clearing the library.  However, it sounds like you might have most things working now in which case there's no need for this.

If you'd read my previous posts, you would know that I started with pick-deleting individual files, and re-importing (with the "ignore deleted" option de-selected). That did not work, so I went on to clean the library. I am describing this for the 3rd time now..

thanks,
chris

[MrC]

as I said, after simply removing from the library, I was not able to re-import, no matter how I set the "ignore" switch. It wasn't until I cleaned the whole library that I could re-import.

This is because there is another hidden database (the Removed database) that you're not yet aware of.  It might have contained the tracks you deleted (the FLACs), and perhaps there's an edge case w/CUE files.  It would be easy to confirm this.

[Matt]

I am keeping several albums in the same folder, each consisting of a CUE sheet and a FLAC file. This does not seem to pose a problem with most albums - only the ones I mentioned

For mix CDs to work, you either need to use Album folders (my recommendation) or fill the Album Artist yourself.

More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Album_Artist_and_Album_Artist_(Auto)

[scthom]

Matt -

IIRC, CUE sheets were not well-handled by the plugins. If there are tagging updates going on thru the plugins, then they would likely be writing to the file and not the CUE sheet. This might result in a disconnect between the database/tags and the CUE sheet. Also, I believe when I originally wrote the plugins, I imported the CUE the very first time but then ignored it for tagging (it doesn't get updated with tag writes).

Doulos -

You will be far better off with MC if you used individual tracks instead of single files and CUE sheets. FLAC's use of simple Vorbis tagging makes tagging the file much more complex than necessary. Also, seeking within a FLAC to a specific sample is not that easy due to the variable compression and the way the blocks are stored. With MC's ability to have gapless playback there's really no reason to use the CUE sheet.

[Matt]

IIRC, CUE sheets were not well-handled by the plugins. If there are tagging updates going on thru the plugins, then they would likely be writing to the file and not the CUE sheet. This might result in a disconnect between the database/tags and the CUE sheet. Also, I believe when I originally wrote the plugins, I imported the CUE the very first time but then ignored it for tagging (it doesn't get updated with tag writes).

For playback, all a plugin really needs to do for playback is support sample-accurate seeking and Media Center handles the rest.

For tagging, it's a little squishy.  We read the tag values from the CUE, and they supersede anything in the file's tag.  

There's still your CUE tagging code in the FLAC plugin, but I'm not totally clear when it engages.

For tag writes, it might be better to always direct tags to the CUE file or a sidecar, but we don't do this currently.  It hasn't been a common request one way or the other.

As for the original issue, we're hoping to make import automatically skip files that a CUE file points to.

[scthom]

For playback, all a plugin really needs to do for playback is support sample-accurate seeking and Media Center handles the rest.

For tag writes, it might be better to always direct tags to the CUE file or a sidecar, but we don't do this currently.  It hasn't been a common request one way or the other.

As for the original issue, we're hoping to make import automatically skip files that a CUE file points to.

Either of these would also make sense and be cleaner.

[JustinChase]

For tagging, it's a little squishy.  We read the tag values from the CUE, and they supersede anything in the file's tag.

I can't seem to get this to happen, as I put in another thread before I found this one. 

As for the original issue, we're hoping to make import automatically skip files that a CUE file points to.

This would be very welcome.