Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[owieb]

Hi - I'm keen to purchase MC (only a few days left on trial!) but will all my fiddling I just cannot seem to get "bit perfect" playback with windows 7.
The DAC I am using is the NAD USB DAC http://nadelectronics.com/products/digital-music/DAC-1-Wireless-USB-Digital-to-Analogue-Converter

I have tried all the audio settings in many permutations, and read the page on computer audiophile in detail on setup - but cannot get the blue light on the "noir" skin to light up!

The player will not work with anything but "Direct Sound" in the audio output settings for me. I have set up everything in Win Control panel as described in forums etc.

With "direct sound" and 48/16bit - I get (pretty good!) sound - but am keen to get the most out of the software - and the "bit perfect" capability is the main reason I was drawn to it.

I'm not sure if the reason i'm struggling is the fact that the DAC is not a direct USB connection, but has a dongle that sends a wireless RF signal from the PC USB to the actual DAC itself?  Stuck!! ?
Cheers
Owen

[Vincent Kars]

the reason i'm struggling is the fact that the DAC is not a direct USB connection, but has a dongle that sends a wireless RF signal from the PC USB to the actual DAC itself?

The data sheet says 16/48 only.

http://nadelectronics.com/download.php?120213151515-NAD_DAC1_DataSheet.pdf|NAD DAC 1 Wireless DAC - Data Sheet

[owieb]

Thanks for the fast reply - i realise that it is 16/48 which is why i matched the settings in MC to that - but still not sure why I can't "bypass" the soundcard. Sounds like I need to do more reading - and perhaps I'd struggle to tell the difference. It seems the DAC upsamples to 24/192 after it gets the signal (so does it matter anyway??) - it's all a bit complex but as I said the sound is good. A top quality CD player + amp set to analouge direct was so much simpler!
I had my daugter do a blind test for me playing the same track (with the same everything) through Windows media Player and JRiver - randomly selecting between them and playing 20 seconds of a song i like - and each time I picked the windows media player as the sound I prefered! (the difference was almost inaudiable probably - but I repeated the test 5 times and picked WMC every time).
Are my ears telling me something?
Maybe

[Vincent Kars]

You do bypass “the soundcard” if you mean the onboard audio.
You can simply choose the audio device e.g. onboard or, in your case, the wireless USB transmitter. This one is limited to 16/48 only.

The DAC is a 24 bit capable of 192 kHz max.
This does not necessarily implies it is running at 192.
http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1781

An alternative is to use WASAPI in JRiver and set JRiver to resample everything to 48.
The SRC used by Win (Direct Sound) is not the best there is.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2653312

[owieb]

Thanks again - I tried WASAPI - and same error message again unfortunately (playback could not be started etc. etc.) Can't see where to set it to 48?

It looks like I'll just have to live with the direct sound - which is actually sounding pretty good. Did a comparison through headphones of the headphone jack on the PC vs. the one on the amp with the DAC in place - much better clarity and very noticable difference - especially vocals. Which makes me thankful I haven't wasted my money on this little black DAC! 
Without the DAC in the USB - I can set the audio to WASAPI and playback through the PC speakers with no problems but as soon as dongle is inserted - it's a no go.
If someone can canvince me the difference will be inaudible with my 3K amp and 4K speakers - I'll give up trying 

[JimH]

There are two WASAPI choices.  Please try the other.

In DSP Studio/Output, you can resample to whatever the device likes.

This might help:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started

[owieb]

Wow - i must say great fast feedback here - yep I did try all the permutations in DSP Studio - 48, 44.1 etc. etc. with both WASAPI and WASAPI Event Style without any joy. And also all the sampling frequencies with Kernel Streaming as well (not relevant for WIN7 as I understand anyway - but gave it a shot).
Like I said in the original post - just stuck really - as . And not even sure if it's worth the effort pusuing it any further? As Direct Sound (and Wave Out) are the only 2 options what will work when this dongle is plugged in.
I can set it to WASAPI and WASAPI Event style with the DAC unplugged and get playback through the PC speakers / headphone socket etc. So it's gotta be the dongle - I'm just not tech savvy enough to know why!

[Vincent Kars]

Set all outputs to 48.000
Bit to 16
Don't forget to set Output Format on in DSP studio (the check box upper left)

[owieb]

Ah I see - great - I will try that.  I had thought the "no change" status in the output was a default that could not be changed so hadn't touched it.
Will change all to 48 and test that with WASAPI.

Although I guess that means ripped CD sound will be upsampled to 48KHz from 44.1. It sounds like as long as the dongle wants to see 16bit/48KHZ - I will never truly get untouched or "bit perfect" output.

[Vincent Kars]

I will never truly get untouched or "bit perfect" output.

Correct.
A little bit more about bit perfect: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/BitPerfect.htm

[owieb]

Well - WASAPI Event style and all outputs set at 48 has solved the problem - thanks so much!
I reckon that's about as close to clean output from my PC based lossless files to the DAC to the amp (set to analouge direct of course) as I could hope to get - and upsampling from 41KHz to 48KHZ matters not I'm sure (I'm sure some hardcore audiophile somewhere will dispute that!)
Looking forward to purchasing (and enjoying the learning experience). I feel like it's been a little journey of understanding already

[owieb]

One last thing for anyone who wishes to answer - MC is telling me I have a direct connection now (with the re-sampling) - however I notice I am still able to control the volume in windows. I thought a direct connection would essentially disable the volume function in Windows - no matter.
Something interesting - I was reading another post with some helpful stuff on volume control
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67941.msg457108#msg457108
I preformed the quick check recommended RE adjusting the amp vol control to see if background hiss increased while music was paused. Interestingly - at MAX volume I heard music (very very faint through headphones)! It was the tuner on station - so much for analogue direct bypassing EVERYTHING! This is a reasonably high end amp i was led to believe.