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Author Topic: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak  (Read 6621 times)

glynor

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First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« on: May 03, 2012, 01:34:23 pm »

As an existing user, one small thing I find tedious about installing a fresh copy of MC is restoring my backup.  It would be awesome if on a first-time run of a brand new (no existing library found) copy of MC, it threw up a simple one-step setup dialog before opening the full app:

Welcome to JRiver Media Center 18!  Before using MC for the first time, you must create a Library for it to use.  Would you like to?

Radio 1.  Create a new Library?
(Optional browse control pre-filled with the default location.)

Radio 2.  Restore a backup?
(Browse control set to the default backup location, maybe even pre-selecting the most recent ZIP file in there if one that looks sane happens to exist.)

And that's it.  Open and cancel buttons.  You could throw a link to Interact and the wiki at the bottom if you want, or something like that, but pretty much just those two choices.

This would be handy for a bunch of reasons...

Occasionally I need to setup new never-before-installed copies of MC, when I reformat, or set up a new VM, or get a new machine... Whatever, I find myself doing it a few times a year, minimum.  As an existing user, this isn't the best experience.  MC opens and creates a new, blank library that I'm never going to use, and with a bunch of settings I don't like.  Worse, Auto-Import starts counting down a clock on you, looking at the "wrong" places (which often keeps running while I'm stuck dealing with licensing and whatnot too).  I know rationally that it doesn't matter if I ignore it since I'm just going to restore my Library and Settings all in one fell swoop in a minute anyway, but the countdown timer makes me feel rushed regardless.  And then it has to close and restart the whole application to actually restore because it is already running with the library it made that I don't want or need.

I get that you need to keep the initial setup install-to-using-it time requirement very low, and generally I think you do that well.  But, I also think this one single step could also serve an important educational step for new customers, and it would only be one step.  Almost all new users would be able to just accept the defaults and click "Open", and it would be a clear non-confusing choice for them to make.  But it would teach them, briefly, that there is such a thing as the library, and that it is stored on disk, and it shows you where.  It teaches you that you can back it up, and restore it easily later.  It even hints that you might be able to have more than one, and that this might be an area worth exploring.  And once they click okay, they know what just happened, the process was clearly explained (without too much noise) and it makes sense that it'll open and start looking for files.  That's perfect.

And, I've hit other places where this could be useful.  I use MC to manage my video content at work.  I wanted to show one of our web developers how he could connect to the MC Server and get some of the info he needs for linking himself (and maybe help with metadata tagging too, a bit).  So I told him to download the trial and install it.

And then I had to write out a whole page of text to explain how to restore the Library/Settings backup I made and connect to the remote server.  It would have been so much easier and less daunting to just attach the zip file to the email and say "When it asks, pick this backup file and restore.  Then pick the Work Library Server via blah blah blah.". This would also come in handy for helping the wife set up her work laptop to connect to our home server.  Restore this backup, switch the active library once, done.

A simple one step,dialog would fix these problems and would, I think, be a more comfortable experience to the first time user too.
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Matt

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 01:38:02 pm »

We have to be really careful not to do things to stop, slow, or otherwise confuse a new user.

I kind of think that if you're smart enough to have a backup, you're smart enough to restore it.
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SamuelMaki

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 03:11:34 pm »

We have to be really careful not to do things to stop, slow, or otherwise confuse a new user.

I kind of think that if you're smart enough to have a backup, you're smart enough to restore it.
I'm with Matt. Restoring a backup is fast couple of clicks, so I don't see why make the installer more complicated... It could confuse new users...
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audioriver

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 03:17:13 pm »

Many applications offer two options at the beginning of the installation, Typical/Easy and Custom/Advanced, so the restore option could be included in the advanced install.
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Vocalpoint

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 04:26:49 pm »

Well - I am with Glynor on this one.

I just installed a new version of Quicken over the weekend and it does this exact same thing...it specifically offers "I am a new user of Quicken..so choose this or that to get started....

And it also says - "I have used Quicken before and would like to open an existing file on my computer"....

For me personally - I would rather never have MC pre-install any default library items and have my latest backup restored as my initial start point.

VP
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JustinChase

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 04:47:06 pm »

Well - I am with Glynor on this one.

I just installed a new version of Quicken over the weekend and it does this exact same thing...it specifically offers "I am a new user of Quicken..so choose this or that to get started....

And it also says - "I have used Quicken before and would like to open an existing file on my computer"....

For me personally - I would rather never have MC pre-install any default library items and have my latest backup restored as my initial start point.

VP

+1

However, one caveat, if you never install a new/blank default library, and you really screw up your existing/only library, you can never get MC to open into the bad library, and there is no 'safe' library to choose instead.  [personal experience after deleting the 'default' library once :(]
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JimH

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 05:19:50 pm »

We have to be really careful not to do things to stop, slow, or otherwise confuse a new user.

I kind of think that if you're smart enough to have a backup, you're smart enough to restore it.
+1, +1, +1, ......
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rick.ca

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 08:35:49 pm »

We have to be really careful not to do things to stop, slow, or otherwise confuse a new user.

That's exactly why this behaviour should be changed. Most people are at least a little wary of what the installation routine for a new application might be doing to their system. Those with media collections are likely concerned about what it might do to their media files. So starting a count down on an unknown process is a very bad idea. Many new users have reported being upset by it. For existing users, it's just an unnecessary annoyance.

Clearly, the 'Best Practice' for this sort of thing is to clearly inform the user as to what is happening each step of the way, and to make them feel in control of anything they might be concerned about by stopping and asking. Most new users don't just prefer what glynor is suggesting, they expect it—which is why they're annoyed or confused by the automatic count down. Anyone who is put-off by being told what's happening and asked for confirmation is not the sort of person MC is suitable for anyway.
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wig

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 10:03:55 pm »

I'm always a bit alarmed when JRiver starts auto- importing on a fresh install, and I've been using MC for years. A little user interaction early in the process seems like a good idea.
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Listener

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 12:07:00 am »

I'm always a bit alarmed when JRiver starts auto- importing on a fresh install, and I've been using MC for years. A little user interaction early in the process seems like a good idea.

Amen to wig's post and those of rick and glynor.

The auto-import countdown is scary.  I've gotten lots of hostility from new users about it. I agree with them.

Moving onto another computer and installing MC there has been a regular event for me.  And never completely routine.

Bill
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rjm

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 12:26:49 am »

Yep, always feel a wave of panic when I install MC. I hate that auto-import time bomb.
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jack wallstreet

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 12:33:52 am »

I don't like the auto import either and have to hope I see the count-down, and swear when I don't.  Minor in the scheme of things. 
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John

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 02:44:53 am »

+1, +1, +1, ......

Lol Jim, you get three votes, I suppose your allowed..

I think the installer is good as is. It isn't hard to restore a backup..

If auto import is worrying some maybe on a first run of a fresh installation a dialouge box could pop up asking to either enable or diasable auto import, otherwise it just takes two clicks the delete the library and replace it with yours.
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MrHaugen

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 06:42:02 am »

I've always been positive to a more informative and step by step installation wizard my self. I think Rick has a very good argument, and I support it. I share the same experience.
There are many things in MC that could have been much more user friendly if the users was just given some basic options under installation or startup.

We have to be really careful not to do things to stop, slow, or otherwise confuse a new user.
It's good to have these things in mind, but I do think a smart first-time startup wizard would do much of the opposite for most users.
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Vocalpoint

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 06:53:47 am »

We have to be really careful not to do things to stop, slow, or otherwise confuse a new user

I do not believe there is anything more confusing (or scary) than that "countdown" meter ticking down - giving a new user the sense of "Yipes - what is going to happen to my stuff in 8 seconds?

VP
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JimH

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 07:03:49 am »

Amen to wig's post and those of rick and glynor.

The auto-import countdown is scary.  I've gotten lots of hostility from new users about it. I agree with them.
It tells you what it is going to do.  It waits 45 seconds.  It tells you how to stop it.

More importantly, it takes care of a user who doesn't know where to begin.  We have very few problems with importing files.

While we value your opinion, we think you're all smart enough to handle the current setup without difficulty.   The changes you propose would shift the work from experienced users to novice users, and I don't think that's a good idea.

A lot of our thinking is rooted in a series of user interviews we watched several years ago.  It was amazing what users got stuck on.  Based on those interviews, we removed a lot of the obstacles.  If it sometimes made things slightly more difficult for an experienced user, that's a small price to pay, in my opinion.

Experienced users like options.  Novices are confused by the complexity that the options add.  That's why we resist proposals that add a step or ask a question.  Sometimes it is the right thing to do.   Sometimes it isn't.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 07:22:24 am »

I don't like the auto import either, I typically wait for it to come up after a fresh install so I can cancel it.

I make backups and copies of my entire user profile and programdata and keep a 14 day retention on changed/deleted files, I always have the backups of MC. Yet, I never really looked into manual backup/restore and I always just redo all the settings and then do the import :s. Not sure why though ... creature of habit I suppose.

If it were up to me though, I would have have MC pop up a welcome screen with a 'don't show me this again' check mark with a few options: auto import (what it does now with default settings), import with custom settings, restore a previous backup and close (do nothing).

I also agree entirely with Matt and Jim, new users shouldn't be confronted with complicated and/or confusing screens and options. But its entirely up to the design of that welcome screen how complicated and confusing that really is. A well-designed welcome screen with clear choices and explanation what it does goes a long way. See the attached mock to get an idea of what I mean.

Another thing that would really help new users (but unrelated to this topic lol) is a short intro to the program. Install Adobe Lightroom 3 or 4 and you know what I mean .. the first time wizard highlights each area of the program and explains what it is what it does and how to perform basic tasks in a few steps that can be easily be skipped.
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Vocalpoint

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 07:24:53 am »

A well-designed welcome screen with clear choices and explanation what it does goes a long way. See the attached mock to get an idea of what I mean.

This rocks. Looks so good - I am finding myself looking for it in .144 :)

VP
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JimH

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2012, 07:40:19 am »

We may revisit this in the future, but expect no change now. 
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The Mastermind

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 07:48:47 am »

I'm always a bit alarmed when JRiver starts auto- importing on a fresh install, and I've been using MC for years. A little user interaction early in the process seems like a good idea.
Too right!
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jgreen

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2012, 09:20:51 am »

My impression is that this "looking for media files" behavior is common and accepted in the marketplace.  Personally, I don't warm to it, either, but I think most people out there just want the program to work. 
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fitbrit

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2012, 03:04:09 pm »

That's exactly why this behaviour should be changed. Most people are at least a little wary of what the installation routine for a new application might be doing to their system. Those with media collections are likely concerned about what it might do to their media files. So starting a count down on an unknown process is a very bad idea. Many new users have reported being upset by it. For existing users, it's just an unnecessary annoyance.

Clearly, the 'Best Practice' for this sort of thing is to clearly inform the user as to what is happening each step of the way, and to make them feel in control of anything they might be concerned about by stopping and asking. Most new users don't just prefer what glynor is suggesting, they expect it—which is why they're annoyed or confused by the automatic count down. Anyone who is put-off by being told what's happening and asked for confirmation is not the sort of person MC is suitable for anyway.

+1
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rick.ca

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 10:48:07 pm »

A well-designed welcome screen with clear choices and explanation what it does goes a long way. See the attached mock to get an idea of what I mean.

A nice illustration of exactly what I was getting at. The notion anyone would prefer a new installation to just go ahead and do whatever it wants rather than presenting something like this is just not plausible—"user interviews" notwithstanding.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2012, 02:54:53 am »

Software interfaces and users' perception and expectations evolve. Users don't want or expect the same thing from a GUI they did 10 years ago, or even a few years ago.
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rick.ca

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2012, 04:05:56 am »

Quote
Software interfaces and users' perception and expectations evolve. Users don't want or expect the same thing from a GUI they did 10 years ago, or even a few years ago.

What are you suggesting? It's impossible to disagree with such a statement. If anything, users must have higher expectations of installation routines. That means respecting the fact the first-time user likely has no reason to trust the program to go ahead and make decisions like this. Stopping and asking rather than assuming—and providing a "don't ask again option" (if it's the sort of thing that might be annoying if asked again)—is the professional manner today's users are likely to expect. Is that what you mean?
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InflatableMouse

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 05:45:58 am »

What are you suggesting? It's impossible to disagree with such a statement. If anything, users must have higher expectations of installation routines. That means respecting the fact the first-time user likely has no reason to trust the program to go ahead and make decisions like this. Stopping and asking rather than assuming—and providing a "don't ask again option" (if it's the sort of thing that might be annoying if asked again)—is the professional manner today's users are likely to expect. Is that what you mean?

Yes that is exactly what I mean, it was a response to Jim's user interviews a few years back. And although I respect that, their conclusions may not be valid for todays' standards.

User software has shifted from clunky but functional interfaces, to overly complex and advanced, to simplified and inflexible wizards to do complex tasks, to nowadays simple and flexible; the best of both worlds. And it will continue to change in ways that we can't think of right now.

To me, software should never assume anything; it doesn't know anything about me and that's why it should ask and leave it up to me. My screen mock does just that. Of course there are programs for advanced users and for less advanced and the general consensus has been that you can't serve all levels of users without compromise -  but is that really true? Again the Adobe Lightroom example (sorry!) - The layout bears similarity to MC but in addition it offers 'views' that streamlines tasks. For example, the Library view offers a mode to browse and organize your library and make simple few-click adjustments that people typically make to adjust their photos. More advanced control is available from the Develop mode. There's a Book mode (create photo albums), a Slideshow mode and a Print mode. There's so much attention given to offer a streamlined workflow. Lightroom serves professional photographers and simple home users alike - I love it; Lightroom is one of my favorite programs to work with because it allows me work like a pro with just a few clicks and little knowledge of the program or digital photography; and although it helps if you know a lot about digital photography, the program is easy enough for a hobbyist like myself to "just" work with; the learning curve is so low.

And please don't get me the wrong way, MC is not bad at all. Yes it's traditional and it hasn't changed much since the early days but it's functional and it serves quite well. But there is always room for improvement, right? Think outside the box. Lightroom is just an example because it works very well for me. Entertain the thought; if MC would have a similar GUI design as Lightroom ... being able to switch the interface from Play mode to Organise Mode and to Manage mode and Theater mode. Each mode is similar in view and layout (apart from Theater mode, obviously) so it feels comfortable right away - but it offers the functionality focused for that mode in a way that is streamlined to how a user performs tasks. I know that assumes all users do things in the same way - which is not true - so it should still offer a way to do things your way without adding complexity or make it cumbersome to work with.

I think if the devs manage to work something similar out for MC it could work very well for a broader public.
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rick.ca

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 03:06:10 pm »

Quote
Entertain the thought; if MC would have a similar GUI design as Lightroom ... being able to switch the interface from Play mode to Organise Mode and to Manage mode and Theater mode. Each mode is similar in view and layout (apart from Theater mode, obviously) so it feels comfortable right away - but it offers the functionality focused for that mode in a way that is streamlined to how a user performs tasks.

This goes well beyond the issue at hand, which I contend is easily resolved using common sense. I think MC's main strength—it's power and flexibility—make the idea of different UI modes difficult to achieve. We all have our own way of doing things. It's difficult to imagine any two users agreeing on what these different 'modes' should look like. My personal preference is to use one organize-manage-play view for each media type (the 'main' view). It took me some time to learn the tricks necessary to make that feasible, but I find it much more effective than switching views every time I have a whim to do something different. Besides, how is organizing different from managing, and why wouldn't I want to play things while I'm doing either? ;)

I think what could be done better is to provide demonstration (a better term than 'stock') views that illustrate how different views of the same thing can be used for different functions like collecting, organizing and playing. Those would illustrate the flexibility of MC, while also being potentially useful to new users. I'm always surprised when a new (and sometimes not so new) user says something to the effect they're using The Album view and it's not working properly. It seems they actually believe it's a fixed view that will magically adapt to whatever their circumstances. Or they're having the very common problem of not understanding how albums are grouped. A maintenance view designed to help resolve such issues would go a long way in educating and helping new users.

And since we're completely off-topic anyway, here's an idea: A memo field associated with each view configuration. It could be used to provide an overview of the view's intended purpose, suggestions for how it might be modified (e.g., "add columns for any additional information needed"), and tips for it's use. This would appear as a tooltip when hovering over a view in the tree. Experienced users would not need the same sort of information provided with stock views, but might find it equally useful for documenting the purpose of infrequently used special-purpose views. 8)
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Ancient_Audiophile

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2012, 11:01:02 pm »

I have to say that this issue is the biggest complaint that I see in searching the web about Media Center.

Note that even the beta users express alarm at the countdown.  Conversely, if the phone rings (or some other distraction), you have no chance of interrupting the countdown.

But I just discovered that even if you interrupt the countdown, and choose "No Import", it still auto-imports the next time you start the program.

I understand making it simple for novices, but there is an easy solution.

During installation, the program has already asked if the user is novice or advanced by asking whether or not to do a custom installation.

So, in the custom installation, just ask whether or not to Auto-Import.

Seems pretty simple - have I missed anything ?
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MrHaugen

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2012, 02:05:34 am »

I've always had the impression that a well thought out Wizard that guides you through the most important setup options, and does the configuring job for you, is the best approach. Experts can skip it, and first time users get a helping hand. But there's always someone on this forum beating me when I mention it  :-X
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JimH

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Re: First Time (Ever) Startup Tweak
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2012, 07:31:49 am »

MC will continue to attempt to import until it has something in the library.  Just import a single file and it will stop.
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