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Author Topic: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?  (Read 5136 times)

Ton

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Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« on: May 07, 2012, 07:17:03 pm »

Now that they are a bit affordable I am contemplating to buy a ssd for my htpc and to put Windows 7 and my program files on it. A 64GB ssd would be enough then.
But I wonder if it is worth to do it. Are there any more benefits then booting faster ? Will I notice an increase in performance when I use my pc mainly for playing music and movies (dvd's and blu-rays, all from my hdd's) ?
Thanks in advance.
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pcstockton

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 11:59:34 pm »

my benchmark score went up.  as well as a few on the win 7 performance benchmarks that had nothing to do with the hard drive, i.e. "graphics performance".

Booting is about 50% faster.

Shut down is instant.
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imugli

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2012, 11:21:04 pm »

No noise from drive spinning up and down...  ;)

Boot time is reason enough though IMO.

glynor

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2012, 01:53:52 am »

One word:

Yes.
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glynor

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2012, 02:24:50 am »

Actually, I couldn't leave it at just one... Of course. ;) ;D

One other thing I would mention (in addition to agreeing with the others who posted - especially about the noise) is that if you can afford it, I would try to get a 128GB drive, even if you don't need the space now.  Two reasons:

1. You might need the space eventually.  64GB is awfully tight for Windows 7 if you want any applications on the drive, and once you see the performance improvements, and the lag when you access stuff on your old spinning disks, you'll want more space.  Remember that you need to leave room free for swap and temp files and whatnot.

2. More importantly, the 64GB drives don't perform very well.  The "sweet spot" for performance right now is definitely the ~128GB drives, but performance scales pretty much linearly based on the number of dies on the drive, and the number of channels on the controller.  So, the bigger drive you get (up to the limits of the dies and controllers available now) the better it will perform[/url].  Many of the 64GB drives right now operate on a single channel, and (while still much better than a spinning disk) the controllers really aren't optimized to run that way.

If you can afford it, get a 128GB.  They're actually cheaper per GB than the 64GB drives anyway (and the 240-256GB drives are often cheaper per GB still and perform even better).  Take a look at this article for more: http://techreport.com/articles.x/22358

I'd look at three options:

1. Crucial M4 128: not the fastest drive on the block, or the latest controller, but they're cheap and have a very good reliability track record.  I have this exact drive in my Server, and it has been great.
2. Corsair Force Series GT 120GB:  This drive is based on the newest Sandforce controller.  This controller is very fast, but had some problems with firmware and reliability early on.  However, those problems have now been resolved with current firmware versions, and Corsair has a good track record for service if you ever need it (unlike some other high-profile SSD vendors).  TR gave it a best buy recommendation a while back, and I agree.  They are usually the best deals around, and the GT version is the fastest version of the drive.  Great drive.  I have the 240GB version in my HTPC (on-sale right now at Newegg).
3. Samsung 830 128GB:  This is arguably the fastest drive on the block right now, with the possible exception of the brand-new (and still commanding a price-premium) OCZ Vertex 4.  They usually aren't quite as good of a deal as the Sandforce based drives though, and Samsung has a mixed record on support.

I'd sign up for the Newegg email deals and watch and wait for one of those to go on sale (they do regularly, especially the Corsair, which has a hefty rebate right now, actually).

If you decide you can't afford it, even with a 64GB drive you'll still see a big difference in boot times and general system operation.  The biggest difference I see in boot times is actually after you login to the desktop.  All that stuff that loads in your System Tray by the clock and hammers on your drive as it does?  Yeah, they'll load WAY faster.  Instantaneously in most cases.  Application launches and switching are much smoother, and then there's the noise.  There's none.  Even if you use a spinning disk for secondary storage, it'll spin up way less often, and thrash about much less frequently.

Until they came down to around the $1/GB price point, I was skeptical of the value.  But now... Once you have one, you'll never want to go back.  That's the best thing I can say.
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Hendrik

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2012, 02:30:18 am »

I got the Crucial m4 128GB in my HTPC, and it runs perfectly.
The only SandForce drive i would touch is the Intel version (they vastly improved on all the Firmware issues that plagued those drives), but it was more expensive then the m4, and the performance difference is not that big.

With all SSDs, its important to update the Firmware, even if you just got it. There usually are important fixes and improvements in there.
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glynor

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2012, 04:03:42 am »

I strongly felt that way before.  I swore them off for a long time though... That's why I got the first M4.  ;). And the Intel firmware is better (but not worth the price premium IMHO), but they really have now have solved the issues.

From what I've read and heard (and what is logical), there is performance-based mojo in the Intel firmware which is proprietary, but the stability fixes Intel incorporated Sandforce WAS allowed to distribute to their other vendors (and did, and Corsair incorporated it).  I saw this other places, but it was specifically covered on an episode of the Tech Report podcast (they got it directly from both Intel and Corsair).

I love my Crucial M4 (and there was a reason I put it first in my list), though it does have some issues in certain workloads, and it isn't very aggressive with TRIM and garbage collection.  In fact, in a recent review of the new WD Raptor, the 128 M4 lost to a couple spinning disks in a couple tests.  They were only very limited tests, of course, but it shows that in certain circumstances the controller falls down (to be clear, it still did very well overall).

I think either would be a good choice.
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Hendrik

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2012, 06:36:31 am »

I think its funny that it took until Intel gave it a shot for the SandForce firmware to be fixed. :p

Since i don't mind a small premium in some cases, if i wanted a new high-performance SSD for my main PC right now, i probably would choose the Intel 520 over other SF models.
But i haven't really kept up with the most recent releases of new SSDs and their performance changes either way..

My main box has a Crucial RealSSD C300 256gb, i doubt i'll be changing it this year. Maybe next, we'll see where SSDs go tech-wise.
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JimH

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2012, 06:56:31 am »

I've bought a couple of Intel 520's in the last month.  I bought a Crucial M4 yesterday when Micro Center had no 520's.

I've been using them mainly for boot drives and it really makes a difference.

I have had two drives fail.  One was an early model.  I've forgotten the brand.  When the other drive failed a few weeks ago, I was able to get everything off of it.

So my experience is mixed, but I keep coming back.  They're worth the trouble.
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Ton

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2012, 08:35:47 am »

Thanks for the replies.
After seeing pcstockton's reply I already took the plunge and bought one the day before yesterday. I bought a 64GB Samson 830, because in a few reviews I read that that was the best choice for a 64GB one. I don't need more space I think, because I use my pc mainly as a htpc. Meanwhile I installed Windows 7 and almost all of my applications and I still have 37GB free.
I don't regret I bought it. I am on Windows desktop within 35 seconds now ! While installing Windows and the programs I made a few system images as a backup and that goes a lot faster now as well.

One question though. In a guide for installing ssd's I read that it was not recommended to turn off "Superfertch". When I run the Samsung Magician tool however (which was included with the ssd), it says to turn it off for best optimization.
What is your opinion ?
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glynor

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2012, 12:45:47 pm »

I think its funny that it took until Intel gave it a shot for the SandForce firmware to be fixed. :p

Totally agreed.

I'm really not a big fan of Sandforce at all, or the way their controller has the secret internally RAID-like black box.
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Ton

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2012, 12:58:11 pm »

Could anyone give me an advice with regards to my question above:

"One question though. In a guide for installing ssd's I read that it was not recommended to turn off "Superfertch". When I run the Samsung Magician tool however (which was included with the ssd), it says to turn it off for best optimization.
What is your opinion ?"

(I bump now already because otherwise it may be overlooked).
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Hendrik

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2012, 02:09:23 pm »

SuperFetch loads stuff into RAM, so if you have plenty RAM, no reason to turn it off.
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Ton

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2012, 02:17:08 pm »

Thanks.
I have 4GB RAM, would that be enough ?
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DarkPenguin

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2012, 04:03:48 pm »

I've bought a couple of Intel 520's in the last month.  I bought a Crucial M4 yesterday when Micro Center had no 520's.

The m4 has a known failure.  Make sure it has the updated firmware.

I run an m4 and a ocz agility 2.  Both have been good so far.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2012, 04:19:26 pm »

Yes, it's worth it but you gathered that from the replies above ;).

January 2010 I got the Intel 80GB Postville SSD, 2nd Gen. It's been in my pc since as a bootdrive. I use my pc day and night. According to SSDLife its been working for 9899 hours (over 1 year), has seen 1270 power ons, and still has 98% health with an remaining estimated lifetime of 8 years, 5 months.

It says I've written 6,5TB to it. Thats aproximately 80 full writes.

This is THE single best upgrade for my PC ever.
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glynor

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2012, 04:30:25 pm »

The m4 has a known failure.  Make sure it has the updated firmware.

That is true.  I suspect most of them shipping in the channel now have the newer firmware (the issue was fixed a good while ago), but when bought at retail, it could have sat on the shelf a long time.
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glynor

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2012, 09:30:57 am »

If anyone is still looking, Newegg happens to have a very good deal today on an OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD (for $99, or $109 with no silly rebate nonsense).

The Vertex 3 is very similar to the Corsair Force Series GT I described above.  It is based on a Sandforce SF-2281 controller and uses the (better) Intel 25-nm synchronous MLC flash chips (as opposed to the slower Micron async chips).  It should be a great performer, essentially identical to the Corsair.  I didn't list this drive before because OCZ has a decidedly mixed record for support (not just from the firmware issues discussed above, but with all of their products).  However, those firmware problems now seem to be in the rearview mirror, and this could be a great way to get on the SSD wagon without spending a ton.  If it makes you nervous, just make sure to have a good backup scheme, which you should have anyway as spinning disks die too (and mostly the problems with these weren't with them dying early anyway, it was with stability problems in Windows).

Anyway, it is a good deal, and a decent drive.  The Intel Cherryville version of the drive, with the exact same controller, and the exact same flash chips (made in the exact same factory), is currently selling for $180.  The Intel drive does have some special firmware mojo that makes it perform better than the "vanilla" Sandforce drives in some circumstances, but as I said, they are sharing their stability fixes for the originally-troublesome Sandforce 2000 series controller, so even if you buy a Corsair or an OCZ, you get some benefit from their massive R&D spending.
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Hendrik

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Re: Is it worth to buy a ssd for my htpc ?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2012, 09:46:46 am »

Intel also claims to only uses the highest quality NANDs for their own drives, while other vendors that use Intels NANDs just have to use what they get. How much difference that makes? Who knows.

Speaking about OCZ, i had a Vertex 2 fail on me, so i didn't get a new OCZ this time around. :p
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