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[Okebek]

Bonjour,

Sorry if my English is not perfect.

A few days ago,  I've received by email your two for one offer to buy MC17/MC18. Even thought, after a free trial of MC17, I consider MediaCenter as a very high quality multimedia player and one of the best, if not the best, solution for media, I would like you to know why I will not benefit of this offer to buy MC.

I already told you, I've been very - but very - impressed by the quality of your solution. I'm sorry to say that I has not been the same - to say the least - by the quality of the translations (for me, French) of your product. It has a major impact over the quality of your product. It makes your solution less user's friendly/less ergonomic when you don't understand the exact meaning of a command or when you don't know exactly where a command leads to.

From what I understand, translations are provided by users/clients of your application. I know it means a lot of effort/hours put into theses translations by those people/contributors (probably for free). But it also means basically that you don't have any control over the quality of these translations.

It is a mystery to me. How come a such high quality solution (and a paid one by the way) does not come with high quality translations? Have you ever consider professional translators (I'm not one) for the translation of your application?

This issue is the only one reason for me not to buy MediaCenter.

Cordialement

Michel

[Matt]

If you would like to improve the French translation (your English seems perfect), we would be happy to provide you a license.

[rlebrette]

Hello Michel,

<french-mode>
On peut travailler ensemble sur l'amélioration de la traduction française. Une traduction professionnelle d'un produit est un coût très important dans un développement logiciel. C'est pour cela qu'aujourd'hui la traduction est partiellement à la charge des utilisateurs. De nombreux progrès ont déjà réalisés grâce à des modifications récentes faîtes par des utilisateurs français.
Il reste néanmoins des choses à améliorer, c'est clair, et cela même pour l'équipe de JRiver, car il reste des éléments du logiciel qui ne peuvent pas être traduit parce que c'est en interne du produit.
</french-mode>

Regis

[rlebrette]

Matt,

I will check again the french translation, but I've detected several UI elements that are still using english (not I18Ned) , how can we share on that?

Regis

[Matt]

I will check again the french translation, but I've detected several UI elements that are still using english (not I18Ned) , how can we share on that?

Look at:
[Media Center Install Path]\Data\Languages\French\Language.txt

The file contains instructions.

Thanks for thinking about this.

[rlebrette]

Yes I know about that.
My question was about the parts of MC that are not actually using I18N. (yes, you still have internal strings)

[Okebek]

Bonjour again!

Your comments and offer are very appreciated.

To Matt: Thank you very much for your licence offer. Like I said before, I am not a professionnal translator and I never had translated any software. Since I think very highly of your solution, I might consider contributing to improve the French translation but only as part of a team of "french contributors" (topic of Regis post below) because for me of the effort/hours required to do so. Following Regis offer (below)  I send an invitation to French members of this Forum to build a French translators team (3-4 persons would be great). Following the feedback to my invitation, I will come back to you.

To Régis: Ta proposition est intéressante. Je suis intéressé si nous pouvons créer une équipe de trois ou quatre personnes (ou plus) pour se partager le travail, équipe qui travailleraient en mode collaboratif (et non pas en silo). Alors, je lance l'invitation à d'autres membres francophones de ce forum pour créer cette équipe de traducteurs pour la version française.

Cordiales salutations!

Michel
Montréal, Québec

[Domi]

Hi,

I decided to entirely rewrite the French translation last year. I confirm that it represents a lot of work (more than 100 hours spent on august 2011).

Nerveless all this time spent, I know that this translation is not perfect and incomplete as I didn't work on version 17. It needs an accurate follow up because of constant evolution of JRiver Media Center.
Some items are very difficult to translate in French if we want to keep the original sense of the functions represented by these items.

I think that it is possible to make an almost perfect translation but it will require to spend a lot of time on it and a serious tracking.

[rlebrette]

I've written a small tool that builds the merge between the english language file (what I consider as the reference, hope that's really the case) and any other language file.
This allow me to remove from the language file the messages that are not anymore present and to find all messages that are missing a translation.
I've run this against the french file, it's now totally equal to the english one in term of message keys.
Now it's rather easy to maintain the file for the upcoming updates.

Thanks to Domi, a lot of messages have been rewritten some time ago, but there still are a lot of sentences that should either be reviewed or translated (due to new messages).
I will publish the file by tomorrow, if anybody wants to help to complete the work (at least for MC 17.182) he/she is welcome.

[Okebek]

Bonsoir Régis,

Tout comme toi, je remercie Domi pour le travail effectué précédemment. En passant, mon commentaire au sujet de la traduction française concernait surtout le travail qui restait à faire et non le travail effectué par Domi en très grande partie (si je comprends bien).

L'importance du temps requis pour la traduction (+ de 100 heures) mentionné par Domi renforce mon idée qu'il faudrait idéalement être une petite équipe pour effectuer la traduction française de MC.

Aussi, toujours compte tenu de l'effort demandé, il faut s'assurer de ne pas avoir à recommencer au complet de mise à jour en mise à jour.
Est-ce que je comprends, à ce titre, que la petite application que tu as développé permettrait justement de faciliter la mise à jour du fichier de traduction?

Une petite équipe + suivi des changements (comme mentionné par Domi) + ton application = seraient pour moi les bonnes conditions pour la révision/finalisation de la traduction pour la version 17.182.

Cordialement

Michel

[rlebrette]

Voici ce que je propose, j'attache à ce message la dernière version du fichier qui a été remise à jour par rapport à sa référence anglaise.
Je prends en charge de maintenir la cohérence globale du fichier par rapport à cette référence.
Le fichier représente près de 29000 lignes, ce qui en supprimant les commentaires et les séparations représente 8194  phrases/mots à vérifier dont 92 n'ont actuellement aucune traduction.
Je m'occupe des premières 5000 lignes, donc de 0 à 4999, ceux qui veulent aider annoncent les groupes de lignes qu'ils veulent gérer.
Je me chargerai de faire la consolidation quand l'ensemble sera couvert.
Les termes n'ayant aucune traduction sont faciles à trouver, ils sont substitués par #! dans le fichier.
Évitez de mettre des espaces ou des lignes supplémentaires dans le fichier, ça complique la procédure de consolidation.
Je propose de s'en tenir à une traduction en Français métropolitain (pour la Belle Province on peut imaginer de faire un deuxième jet par la suite)
Les termes techniques (tag, renderer) sont généralement plus facile à comprendre sans traduction, il vaut mieux les conserver tel quel.
Pour ceux qui participe, n'hésitez pas à échanger sur la formulation d'une phrase directement dans ce topic.

[rlebrette]

Je prend les lignes de 5000 à 9999

[rlebrette]

Matt

I've finished to translate the messages that are present in the english language file.
Now, I'm checking the GUI and I find a lot of strings that still are not translated.
Adding them to the updated language file is quite easy but it's a huge work to gather all the missing messages.
Is it possible to get an updated english language file with all messages used in MC (17 or 18)

Regis

[JimH]

It is.  Stand by.

[Matt]

You should have mail.

[rlebrette]

Thanks, I've got it. That helps a lot.

[rlebrette]

Hi JRiver team,

I've reviewed most of the messages, I just discover that the home pages (HTML), which are displayed when selecting in the tree, are not externalized in the language folder, is it something that can be done?

Régis

[Domi]

French mode ON:

Bravo pour le travail accompli Régis car je suis bien placé pour savoir que ça prend pas mal de temps.

Perso, je me suis mis un peu en retrait pour le moment.. On verra plus tard si je m'y remets. Cependant, je pense qu'il fallait quelqu'un qui connait ce logiciel aussi bien que toi pour aller au fond des choses niveau traduction.

French mode OFF.

[Matt]

I've reviewed most of the messages, I just discover that the home pages (HTML), which are displayed when selecting in the tree, are not externalized in the language folder, is it something that can be done?

It's not currently possible to translate these pages.  But I agree it would be a good idea.

It might make sense to push them through our HTML engine (as used by WebGizmo, etc.) that translates words in curly braces.

I'll have to put this on the list of things to think about in the future.

[rlebrette]

That would be great, it will help a lot in the product acceptance since these pages are the first text that user sees when opening the product.

[rlebrette]

Hi dev team,

I just have started to check again the french translation against the latest MC18.0.59 and once again I'm hunting for messages that are not translated.
I was thinking that the english file is including all the new messages but it seems it's not the case, could the next public build include an english ressource file with all the new messages?

Regis

[Okebek]

Hello Régis and Matt,

I've been away for a while.

MATT: If your licence offer is still valid, I would be willing to give translation a try. I would keep in touch with Régis for the follow up.

French mode on:

Salut Régis, Je suis intéressé à participer à la traduction française. J'ai quelques questions à ce sujet:

- Est-ce qu'autres personnes se sont proposées pour la traduction depuis le début de cette discussion?
- Considérant l'effort requis pour la traduction, est-ce que l'exercice est à recommencer au complet de version en version?
- Si l'offre de Matt est toujours valide, est-ce que je débute avec ton fichier joint à ce forum ou celui inclut avec le logiciel?
- Je compte modifier le fichier texte avec le logiciel Notepad++. Autre suggestion de logiciel?

Voici mes préoccupations par rapport à la traduction française actuelle:

Plus que la traduction des mots/expressions spécifiques, les calques de l'anglais (emploi des majuscules ou symbole dans une phrase/chaîne de mots). Ex: "Exporter Toutes les Listes" ou Lecteurs & périphériques.

Aussi, la dimension ergonomique: Je crois avoir remarqué la non concordance entre le titre d'une action dans un menu et, le cas échéant, le titre de la boîte de dialogue associée à cette action.

Ma contribution concernerait donc principalement, sans s'y limiter, les deux points ci-dessus.

J'attends vos réponses, Matt et toi.

French mode: Off

Thank you. Hope to hear from you soon.

Michel

[Matt]

You might try v18 first.  I don't speak French, but my understanding is that the translation is already quite good (thanks to the help of several in this thread).

[rlebrette]

Hello Régis and Matt,

I've been away for a while.

MATT: If your licence offer is still valid, I would be willing to give translation a try. I would keep in touch with Régis for the follow up.

French mode on:

Salut Régis, Je suis intéressé à participer à la traduction française. J'ai quelques questions à ce sujet:

- Est-ce qu'autres personnes se sont proposées pour la traduction depuis le début de cette discussion?
- Considérant l'effort requis pour la traduction, est-ce que l'exercice est à recommencer au complet de version en version?
- Si l'offre de Matt est toujours valide, est-ce que je débute avec ton fichier joint à ce forum ou celui inclut avec le logiciel?
- Je compte modifier le fichier texte avec le logiciel Notepad++. Autre suggestion de logiciel?

Voici mes préoccupations par rapport à la traduction française actuelle:

Plus que la traduction des mots/expressions spécifiques, les calques de l'anglais (emploi des majuscules ou symbole dans une phrase/chaîne de mots). Ex: "Exporter Toutes les Listes" ou Lecteurs & périphériques.

Aussi, la dimension ergonomique: Je crois avoir remarqué la non concordance entre le titre d'une action dans un menu et, le cas échéant, le titre de la boîte de dialogue associée à cette action.

Ma contribution concernerait donc principalement, sans s'y limiter, les deux points ci-dessus.

J'attends vos réponses, Matt et toi.

French mode: Off

Thank you. Hope to hear from you soon.

Michel

Hi Michel,

As stated by Matt, a lot of work has been done for MC18. Even if it has not been announced, I've reviewed/completed most of the messages and it has been integrated in the distribution.
I've already started to make the translation more consistent and more meaningful for french people (I think that some of the original messages have been translated with a Google like system)
We already stated that we are missing a way to translate the html pages, and Matt agreed that it would be a cool feature to have. This is a lack but I understand that it's not in their current priorities.
The most complex task is to keep the translation up to date, since the JRiver's folk is regularly adding new messages.
My main problem is that my work is based on the bundle of available messages in ...\J River\Media Center 18\Data\Languages\English\Language.txt that seems to be outdated (not updated since 08/23). As asked in a previous post it would be cool to have an updated version of this file for every new release. Sincerly, I just don't understand how this file can be outdated (I just don't know how the I18N subsystem is implemented in MC)

Whatever the status is, help is always appreciated, so if you want to give some of your time to maintain the translation it's welcome. Since I didn't get feedback I've managed the whole translation but I'm still open to coordinate all the submissions.
 
Regis

[rlebrette]

Moreover, just to complete my previous post, I already have an improved version of the translation (with grammar & meaning changes), but I'm waiting to integrate the new messages before releasing it.

[rlebrette]

Up! No answer from the team...

[Okebek]

Hi Matt,

My post about your license offer has been sent after I've tried v18. From my point of view, despite all the works and efforts that has been done (thanks to Régis) there is still place for improvement.

Also, according to Régis words, whatever the status is "help is always appreciated to maintain the (french) translation". I understand he is the only one taking care of the work that needs to be done (nobody else so far showed up to do so).

So, If your licence offer is still valid, I would be willing to give a try maintaining the translation with him. Like I already said, I would keep in touch with Régis for the follow up.

My offer to you is to help improve the french translation, bring it to a higher level (fine tuning) to be as good as iTunes, Windows Media Player, Songbird, and MediaMonkey.

Keep me inform!

Michel