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rick.ca:
--- Quote from: csimon on August 30, 2012, 03:25:43 pm ---No - all I'm after is that you create your view once, not in Theater View, but in a new view library.
--- End quote ---
Well, I don't know. I don't use other devices, so I'm making assumptions. But I'm under the impression there are various things that just don't work on DNLA devices. And I imagine views that work well in Theatre View may not be practical on, say, a phone. Is that not the case? Or are you saying any configuration will work on any device? If so, I suppose the 'use a configuration from the library' model would work better. If not, the 'copy something from elsewhere as a starting point' model would be more direct and easier to use.
csimon:
--- Quote from: rick.ca on August 30, 2012, 03:47:05 pm ---Well, I don't know. I don't use other devices, so I'm making assumptions. But I'm under the impression there are various things that just don't work on DNLA devices. And I imagine views that work well in Theatre View may not be practical on, say, a phone. Is that not the case? Or are you saying any configuration will work on any device?
--- End quote ---
No, no, that's where I'm being misunderstood! I'm not saying that a central view library means that all views have to be global and have to work in ALL areas. I'm trying to make it easier for people like me, and others, who wnat to be able to re-use the same views in more than one area without having to set it up again. Your idea of copying-and-pasting is the right concept, and so is the option we have at the moment to "add item from standard view", but these methods won't allow changes made once to roipple through everywhere.
When you say "more than one device", I'm not particularly talking about different devices. I'm talking about the different "modes" and "servers" that MC provides. For example, on my PC I might want to view my library in Theater View mode, or in Standard View mode. Same deivce, but the views have to be set up separately. On my iPad I might want to use a DLNA client or I might want to use Gizmo or JRemote. Same device, but using two different modes of operation, but each needs their views setting up separately.
--- Quote ---I imagine views that work well in Theatre View may not be practical on, say, a phone.
--- End quote ---
Well in that case, you wouldn't assign that view to the phone! I'm not saying that views created centrally have to be global across all devices, it's just that there will be a central library of views to choose from.
--- Quote ---I suppose the 'use a configuration from the library' model would work better.
--- End quote ---
Yes, yes!
--- Quote ---If not, the 'copy something from elsewhere as a starting point' model would be more direct and easier to use.
--- End quote ---
But doesn't solve the problem in that if you want to make changes then you have to make the same changes everywhere that you've copied to. Or else wipe the config and re-copy them. That's nowhere near as easy and transparent as making the change once and it affects everything that you've linked it to. It's like the difference, in programming terms, between having Includes files that are incorporated each and every time automatically on compile, or having subroutines or calls to standard library functions, rather than maintaining your own library of text files that you import into a program whenever you want to use a particular routine then have to go back to every program you've ever used it in in order to facilitate a bug fix in it.
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---But doesn't solve the problem in that if you want to make changes then you have to make the same changes everywhere that you've copied to. Or else wipe the config and re-copy them. That's nowhere near as easy and transparent as making the change once and it affects everything that you've linked it to.
--- End quote ---
I understood what you said, but I was questioning how common it is that an identical configuration will actually work on another device. I assume another computer using the same library (i.e., a client) has to use the same configuration anyway, so that's not the issue. Standard and Theatre views are fundamentally different (a static copy of an individual Standard view can be used as a basis for a Theatre view menu, but it doesn't always translate nicely—and it can't be updated), do that's not the issue. The functionality of DLNA is limited compared to the computer and other devices, so it's not at all clear it's configuration can be an exact copy of another. Yes, I can see it would be convenient for those who have multiple hand held devices if the same configuration really can be used for more than one. But even then, I wonder how often it is that an identical configuration will work on two different types of device. If any difference is required, then the library method is useless.
Even if there is a practical need for the library approach, it's not something that should be imposed on users who have no need for it. So it couldn't be a simple system where all configurations are maintained in a library then assigned to applicable devices. My sense is your need would be better served by the simple option to link one configuration to another. For the device so linked, there would be no configuration—just a link indicating the source. I suppose the source would need some clear indication another device is using the same configuration. For situations where a change has to be made that's not compatible with the other device, it would be handy to have the option to replace the link with a copy of the configuration prior to making the change.
struct:
I was thinking when you change a standard view it comes up with a dialog asking which other places you would like to save the view, i.e. theatre, dlna, etc. (It may need a one time popup asking where you want to store it in the tree for the other views). If the view is saved in this way it is then "linked" and when you subsequently change it, it the asks if you want to update in the other views also. If you select no or incompatibilities are found, it says it can't copy to the other views, and the link is broken. There could be a little list at the bottom of the dialog for defining a view showing where it is linked to so that you don't forget or could later choose to link it to another view.
This has the benfit of making it clearer to the new user that the other views need some work also.
Craig
glynor:
I gotta say... Not relating to any specific suggestions above, but more generally...
I think better defaults are way, way more important and useful than a wizard. I think most wizards aren't very wizardly and turn off as many novice users as they help. The problem is essentially this:
1. To avoid intimidating a novice user, which results in them closing it and not using it at all ever, the wizard cannot ask any question the novice won't clearly know the answer to immediately (without having to "look it up").
2. If you follow rule number 1, then your wizard can't actually accomplish much of useful value (hence, most of them not being very wizardly).
I don't think many people here would construe me as a novice computer user, but even I'm often confused by the wizards I have to go through when setting up a new, unfamiliar application. It isn't that I can't figure it out, but I often don't want to. I just want to use the darn thing.
That's not to say that a few well-placed wizards can't help the situation, but they have to be implemented very carefully. Initial setup wizards though, are almost always terrible. I find them either useless, and a waste of time (lazy programming, the developers decided to "ask the user" vague and confusing questions rather than just making the "hard call" and settling on defaults that work well for most people); or I find them so detailed that they're intimidating and I typically just answer things semi-randomly to get through it, intending to "come back later".
Neither would really solve the problems here. I do agree with Matt that the Theater View configuration UI could use a whole pile of work. But I don't know that a hand-holding wizard is the best way to solve the problem. Better defaults, so that most people don't NEED to change it, and a better UI for those who want to.
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