More > JRiver Media Center 18 for Windows
Wish List: New MC User from XBMC & iTunes
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---Better defaults, so that most people don't NEED to change it, and a better UI for those who want to.
--- End quote ---
+1.
And better defaults in a better UI (that shows, as clearly as possible, what the settings are) will go a long way in making the whole thing much easier to understand. Even the user who is happy with the default will eventually want to change something. When they do, a better UI will give them a fighting chance to see and understand what needs to be changed. And for the experienced user, having to create or debug a complicated view by opening multiple dialogs one-at-a-time is extremely inefficient and frustrating.
MrHaugen:
I've seen both badly designed wizards, to heavy wizards that get people upset and abandon the install, as well as options that can lead to confusion. But I'm still of the opinion that if the questions is asked and the options represented is done in a logical way, it would be very beneficial for most new users, and could easily be skipped by users that don't need it.
Either way, it does not mean that better defaults and configuration improvements are not needed. I just think that a good wizard could be a very quick way of helping out novice users with otherwise confusing configuration tasks and frequently asked questions. It would give the application time to evolve and make the tools for configuration more intuitive and user friendly.
The bottom line is that something is needed to make it easier to configure and a better media playback experience for new and old users. I will not argue what of the suggested solutions that should be the number one priority. If it were up to me, I would have them all :D
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---It would give the application time to evolve and make the tools for configuration more intuitive and user friendly.
--- End quote ---
Are you suggesting it would be faster and easier to develop a well-designed wizard instead of just improving the default and the configuration UI? I don't think so. Even if was, wouldn't it be obvious it's just a sloppy workaround for a poor default and UI?
Maybe I'm just not getting how such a thing would work. Can you provide an outline of what you have in mind—based on the following assumptions/criteria? (Or if you don't agree with them, just explain why.)
* The wizard is strictly for Theatre View—things like media (sub) type have been determined correctly (perhaps because another wizard had ensured so).
* Whether or not they suit the user, the defaults do work as intended.
* For the reasons glynor explained, the wizard can only ask questions or present choices a novice would understand, and their response will not produce any results they consider unwelcome.
* When the wizard has finished, the user will understand how to use the configuration and will not have to continue to rely on the wizard.
csimon:
--- Quote from: rick.ca on August 30, 2012, 05:36:27 pm ---I understood what you said, but I was questioning how common it is that an identical configuration will actually work on another device. I assume another computer using the same library (i.e., a client) has to use the same configuration anyway, so that's not the issue. Standard and Theatre views are fundamentally different (a static copy of an individual Standard view can be used as a basis for a Theatre view menu, but it doesn't always translate nicely—and it can't be updated), do that's not the issue. The functionality of DLNA is limited compared to the computer and other devices, so it's not at all clear it's configuration can be an exact copy of another. Yes, I can see it would be convenient for those who have multiple hand held devices if the same configuration really can be used for more than one. But even then, I wonder how often it is that an identical configuration will work on two different types of device. If any difference is required, then the library method is useless.
--- End quote ---
No, it's not useless, because using the library method you can still assign unique views to individual "devices". I am not saying that a central vie wlibrary means that all "devices" have to use the same views, all I am saying is that the central approach means that you can use the same views across all "devices" if you want to whereas you can't do that at the moment.
--- Quote ---Even if there is a practical need for the library approach, it's not something that should be imposed on users who have no need for it.
--- End quote ---
There is no imposition at all. You don't have to use common views if you don't want to, people who still want to create unquqe views for every single "device" can still set them all up separately and laboriously if they want to. Wehn they acces the centrl view configurator from within Theater View, or DLNA config or whatever, it will work exactly the same way as it did before. It will look to them as though there are individual setup facilities in each individual area, but behind the screnes it is actually the same tool biut accessed from all areas of MC. I am not saying that all views have to be gliobal across all devices, I'm just saying that if people want to use common views then they can do so using a central library.
--- Quote ---So it couldn't be a simple system where all configurations are maintained in a library then assigned to applicable devices.
--- End quote ---
Yes it could. Why ever not??
Look at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74123.0 (a very recent thread) for how "untransparent" the current system is and how a newbie is forced to create a view in one place and then import it into a qnother place, not realising that there were sveral fdifferent places for defining views depending on what "device" he is using. and notice that the view he wanted can indeed work in both standrad view on a PC and in JRemote on an iPad. Contrary to what yo've said, I can't think of any situation where a view would not work on all devices, it's just a hierarchical tree of categories. you're not thinking of the situation of using Theater View on a small phone for example?
--- Quote ---My sense is your need would be better served by the simple option to link one configuration to another. For the device so linked, there would be no configuration—just a link indicating the source. I suppose the source would need some clear indication another device is using the same configuration. For situations where a change has to be made that's not compatible with the other device, it would be handy to have the option to replace the link with a copy of the configuration prior to making the change.
--- End quote ---
That is incredibly complicated, logically and physically, and far more complex that a simple central library or even what we've got at the moment.
MrHaugen:
--- Quote from: rick.ca on August 31, 2012, 04:43:12 am ---Are you suggesting it would be faster and easier to develop a well-designed wizard instead of just improving the default and the configuration UI? I don't think so. Even if was, wouldn't it be obvious it's just a sloppy workaround for a poor default and UI?
--- End quote ---
Both yes and no. If we only talk about improving view configuration and making a few changes to views and captions, then no. Probably not. But there's more to improve than just those two things.
I have not given this very much thought, but I can start by illustrating what I would see as a non intrusive but helpful Setup Wizard. This is NOT the answer. We would need much input and discussions of how to present the questions and options. But this sounds alright to me. Explanation of the functionality are written in italic
Page 1:
What kind of user are you?
* New to Media software or Media Center 18. (Setup wizard)
* Experienced Media Center user (Manual configuration)
The first option guides the user through a few pages that will help the user to set up their MC with their preferences. Second option would skip most of this, and leave MC at it's default.
Page 2 (if newbie option is selected):
Who do you store your media?
* Organized in separate folders. Local drives, on a second drive, NAS, network share or similar. I have sorted Movies, TV Shows, Audio, Images and other media in separate folders
* Mixed content on local system drive. My media is often found in a mix of folders that have more than one media type
* Mixed content on other locations. My media is not organized well, but are found on another disk, on a NAS, network share or similar.
* I'm not sure
Tip: You can select "Organized in separate folders" even if you have some mixed content folders as well.
The first option would bring you to a new page (see details below). This allows users to point to the correct locations based on the media type/sub type. The second option would be the default Carnac way of adding things "quick and dirty" from local drives. The third option could be a simpler "I have my media on this share, but it's not sorted well" option. Just as a rough import option from a custom location (not on the local drives). The last option would simply run Carnac on the local drives. Same as option two, but with elimination of possible user confusion
Page 3 (if Organized in separate folders is selected):
I imagine this being a table with pre-selected media sub types with browse buttons. The [...] button would bring up a standard file browser dialogue. The check box with auto import would add those directories to the auto import list. Something along those lines:
Media Sub Type Path
Music [ ] [....]
Movies [ ] [....]
TV Shows [ ] [....]
Images [ ] [....]
[ ] Enable automatic import so the folders are watched for new content.
Tip.
- More media types, media sub types and folders can be added for import through the menu: File -> Library -> Import. Here you can add, remove or edit imports.
- You should only add the folders that have just one media type in it. Mixed content folders can be added later through the import options.
* Organized in separate folders. Local drives, on a second drive, NAS, network share or similar. I have sorted Movies, TV Shows, Audio, Images and other media in separate folders
* Mixed content on local system drive. My media is often found in a mix of folders that have more than one media type
* Mixed content on other locations. My media is not organized well, but are found on another disk, on a NAS, network share or similar.
* I'm not sure
Page 4:
How do you want to use MC?
* Mixed use. I will probably use several of MC's view modes. Including Theater View
* Mixed use. Desktop setup (drop personalized setup for theater view)
* Music only (audiophile setup). Standard view exclusive. Deactivate most non music components and certain setup options
* Music only (audiophile setup). Theater View and Standard View setup. Deactivate most non music components and certain setup options
* I'm not sure
Tip: All options selected here can be edited and changed later on.
Page 5:
How do you want media text in theater view to appear?
* Example 1 of captions
* Example 2 of captions
* Example 3 of captions
* Example 4 of captions
* I'm not sure
Tip: You can select the one that are closest to what you want, and then edit the caption rules in: Tools -> Options -> Theater View -> Advanced - File caption.
This could include several possible Caption presets from users or JRiver. There's been several good suggestions. Ricks is one of the most complete ones I've seen. The "I'm not sure" option would again give the user the default, that is the widest accepted "standard".
Page 6:
What info do you want in the Small info pane?
This should be represented in a screen shot.
Preset 1 | Preset 2 | Preset 3 |
Artwork Artwork Description
Name Duration Rating
Duration Description Actors
Rating Rating
Director
Actors
[ ] [X] [ ]
Tip: You can select the preset that are closest to what you want, and then edit the info panels content in edit the caption rules in: "Tools -> Options -> Theater View -> Customize file info panel..."
This would in my opinion effectively kill several of todays problems.
1. Import and auto imports questions
2. Carnac misses with sub types.
3. Captioning and missing information in Theater View
4. Editing info panels
And the list could grow. These are examples. It's very likely that there are other things that should be chosen instead, or in addition to, or removed. It's important not to throw EVERYTHING at the users, but it's also important to tailor such a system that the right options are presented to the right people. I could see View options being another page, as well as List styles perhaps. List styles is perhaps the most important thing for the first impression of Theater View. Hopefully, most users manage to change those before they make up their mind.
In this example the wizard would go from almost non existent, to more thorough for new users that want to set up theater view in their own way. Depending on the choices you select, MC would skip the unnecessary pages in the wizard. This need to be tweaked and tuned until most bases are covered, and not more info and options than necessary are presented. I would think that the path of the most options would take the user a couple of minutes to complete. I think this would be highly preferred for new users, rather than to be thrown into unknown territory and spending hours to get something close to what they want.
I'm not saying that many or most users have problems with the things listed above. But what I am saying is that new users often find those things hard to configure. And they might even lack the time or will to do so. So, they tend to look at the default views, captions, list styles, info panels, and base their first impressions on this. With such a wizard the first impression after the setup could be very much closer to what they expect, and want to see and experience.
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