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Author Topic: MC 18 freezes a lot [with Win8 on very old hardware]  (Read 2121 times)

DaLarry

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MC 18 freezes a lot [with Win8 on very old hardware]
« on: November 04, 2012, 11:03:51 pm »

When I'm watching TV and try to browse the program guide MC 18 freezes.  I'm currently running Win 8 Pro but it also did it on Win 7.  Similarly, MC 17 also froze in the same fashion.  Sometimes I can just close MC and restart it.  Other MC completely locks the whole system requiring the power cable to be unplugged.  Sometimes it crashes the sound card and if I shutdown and restart MC there's no sound.  The system is now just a dedicated media server so I've installed very little other than MC-18.

My system is:

  • Gateway Desktop 706GE
  • P4 3.06Ghz w/Hyperthreading
  • 4GB Ram (3GB Usable)
  • P4 3.06Ghz w/Hyperthreading
  • ESI Juli@ Sound Card
  • Nvidia GeForce 7600 GT
  • ATI TV Wonder 600 HD PCI
  • Humongous amounts of storage
  • Win 8 Pro x86
  • MC 18.0.67
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JimH

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 06:56:04 am »

It isn't normal.  I would start by updating drivers.
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glynor

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 10:36:42 am »

If it isn't drivers, that sounds like hardware on the way out.  My guesses, in order of likeliness:

1. Power Supply
2. Hard drive cabling
3. Hard drive failure (system drive because it is hard locking).
4. RAM
5. CPU/motherboard failure.
6. Video card
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Ancient_Audiophile

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2012, 10:15:46 pm »

You didn't mention the specific hard drive, so I will offer that if it is an SSD, then sometimes updating the firmware can solve problems similar to your description (I have experienced that).
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Hendrik

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2012, 01:21:01 am »

Considering his PC has a CPU from 2002, and SATA only gained wide availability in 2003 and the later years, i think we can conclude there is no SSD in play. :p
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Ancient_Audiophile

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2012, 08:05:36 pm »

Considering his PC has a CPU from 2002, and SATA only gained wide availability in 2003 and the later years, i think we can conclude there is no SSD in play. :p
Why would you say that ?
Note that:
Quote
Win 8 Pro x86
was not present in 2002 either ! :D

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jmone

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2012, 08:23:55 pm »

It isn't normal.  I would start by updating drivers PC.

I'm guessing that this PC is almost 10 years old now... so who knows what is wrong or failing at this point. 

PS - the MBoard on this puppy has 4 x sata ports (http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERBD/Intel2/102129/102129sp24.shtml) but adding an SSD would have "overcapitalised" this PC!  I too would be very surprised if the OP has an SSD in it (even if the BIOS would accept it).

PSS:  I liked the BX motherboard layout, shame few others did and it is now gooooone the way of Betamax

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glynor

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2012, 09:36:21 pm »

Why would you say that ?

Because the vintage of all of the other components in his system (which I'm guessing is an old system that has been repurposed as a media-only box) suggests it.  The CPU referenced is probably one of the Northwood P4s from 2002 (though it could be a later, and somewhat better, Prescott model too).  This was before multi-core CPUs were the norm, much less home users with Gateway systems running SSDs.

I agree with nev, it is very unlikely that a system like described has an SSD that he didn't mention.  It has:

1. a 10-year-old CPU (or maybe 8, best-case)
2. a mid-range graphics card from six years ago, probably chosen because it was one of the only video cards of that era that was still available in an AGP version (further confirming the likely Northwood status of the CPU).

Now, SSDs are pretty much good upgrades for any system, and can certainly help extend the longevity of an older system.  I don't know that it would be a good value proposition on a system that old, though.  The Northwood and Prescott CPUs were both from Intel's "bad old period" where they were space heaters, and were trounced in IPC by AMD chips with much lower clocks.

If he does, and he chirps up, then I'd agree, that could be a culprit.  You'd think he would have noticed it before now, but maybe the SSD is newish but was an old model that hadn't been flashed yet (I've bought a few SSDs recently though, and they've all had newer firmware).

In any case, the real answer is this:

If a Windows NT Kernel machine, particularly a Windows 7 or 8 machine, totally hard-freezes where the mouse pointer locks up and you have to force the system off:  That is a hardware problem, a bad/corrupted driver, or a corrupted installation of Windows.  No third party software, with the possible exception of games, has the power to do that to your system.

My guess (and nev's and nathan's, apparently) is that it is probably an older piece of hardware from the array of old pieces of hardware he listed, dying.  Because they've reached the end of their expected lifespan.  It is possible that it could be a borked driver, or a partially failed Windows upgrade or something, but... Hard locks feel like hardware to me because in my long experience building and maintaining a veritable fleet of hand-crafted machines...  It almost always is failing hardware.

It smells like it.

I gave a list above with my gut instinct on the order I'd check things.  I couldn't even begin to say for sure without seeing the system myself, and if it was me, I wouldn't spend much time on a box that old (and just call it too old and dying).  I'd probably do this:

1. Test the power supply.
2. Throw away all of the drive cables and replace them.
3. Swap in a different, known-good, drive and put a fresh install of Windows on it.
4. Run it through a battery of tests for stability.

If it survives, great, then it was either the cables, the drive, or something borked in Windows.  Plug the old drive in, transfer my crap to the new install, and carry on.
If it doesn't....?  Meh.  That machine was destined for the dustbin any day now anyway.  I'd probably swap out the PSU if that was the problem, since I usually have a pile of them lying about anyway, but aside from that, it'd go to the recycling center.

Old CPUs and motherboards don't last forever.  Particularly the P4 space heaters of that era.
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DaLarry

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot [with Win8 on very old hardware]
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 02:34:19 am »

Sorry folks.  Didn't mean to be rude and take so long to respond but I got distracted by some urgent and unhappy family business.  It's gratifying to see so many responses.  Having said that, I don't think this issue has anything to do with the age of my system or components.  It is a repurposed system that was my main computer but I repurposed it originally as a music server.  I had been using WMC but didn't really like it for handling music and driving my high end (but vintage) audio system(s).  JRiver MC is without peer when it comes to handling my music collection and serving up music.  However, WMC is just awesome for TV.  None of these issues come up when using WMC to view, record & playback TV.  No freezes, lockups, choppy playback, or any of the issues I've experienced on the video side of MC.  However, I got tired of MC and WMC always dueling over the remote control and decided to standardize on MC.

I installed Win8 Pro because it has a really light footprint and I've got all new updated drivers for everything; video card, sound card, TV tuner; everything.  I don't have an SSD, but I do have 3 1TB 7200RPM drives, (System volume, DVD/videos A-L & DVD/videos M-Z).  My music collection takes up most of a 360GB 4th drive.  This might be a bit much for my Gateway's power supply but I highly doubt it.  Those kinds of hardware issues would show up while using WMC as well as MC.  It only happens with MC and then, only on the video side.  Besides, this isn't my first rodeo.  I've been building my own systems since the late nineties.  The Gateway is the first pre-built system I've ever owned, and it's been a good one.  I admit the possibility that it might be a little underpowered by today's standards but it's not like I'm serving up media for my 27 room McMansion.  It's driving only two audio/video playback systems systems but never at the same time.

Bottom line: MC works fine with music; not so much with TV.  WMC works perfectly with TV but can't touch MC on audio.  If I can't get MC to perform as well on TV, worst case scenario is I'll have to continue my bifurcated media life, or keep looking for a new swiss army knife.
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DaLarry

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Re: MC 18 freezes a lot [with Win8 on very old hardware]
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 02:44:43 am »

PS: Not that I think it matters, but I purchased the system in 2006.  When the CPU and other components were first introduced, I have no clue.
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