Topic: Media Center 18.0.71 [experimental] (Read 5624 times)

Matt · « **on:** November 08, 2012, 05:10:58 pm »

This is an experimental build made with VS2012, Microsoft's Visual Studio Development Environment. I'm not sure when or if we're going to move to VS2012, but I wanted to give it a try for a build.

This build will not install automatically as part of the update channels because I'm not sure if it's good.

The only missing piece I'm aware of is that the Chromium web browser engine. You'll have to pick 'IE' in Options > Tree & View.

It would be interesting to post your JRMark results with 18.0.70 and again with this build. For me, it's around 4% faster.

Download:
[Removed -- This is now part of the standard build available on the MC18 board and download page]

TheLion · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2012, 05:18:45 pm »

For me it is 3514 with 18.0.70 versus 3633 with the new build. So a healthy 3.4% total improvement with the image benchmark having especially improved. I will test stability shortly.

mojave · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2012, 05:49:11 pm »

I went from 3524 (just beating out TheLion

) to 3746 so a 6.3% increase for me.

TheLion · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2012, 05:56:54 pm »

Stability seems to be fine.

Mike Noe · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2012, 06:08:33 pm »

b70: 1875
b71: 1886

AMD Athlon II 620/AMD HD6570

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2012, 06:27:12 pm »

Build 70
HTPC 4248
Notebook 368

Build 71
HTPC 4594
Notebook 459

The HTPC has an Intel i7 3770K 3.5Ghz.

The notebook is a Sony running a hamster on a wheel.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2012, 06:31:58 pm »

kensn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2012, 06:52:32 pm »

Did 2 consecutive runs for each version:

70:

2396
4766
5043
JRMARK = 4068

2436
5069
5241
JRMARK = 4249

71:

2430
5673
5356
JRMARK = 4486

2447
5674
5376
JRMARK = 4499

Nice jump in the Image category.....

Ken

Mike Noe · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2012, 07:13:10 pm »

FSE mode (ROHQ/madVR) with DVD playback is kooky. Jumping from windowed to FSE, the screen goes blank, then it seems, the DVD resets and the load process starts again. Windowed mode seems to work as expected.

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2012, 07:32:46 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 08, 2012, 06:31:58 pm

SSE?

There's nothing we've done to help JRMark.

So the differences are entirely the compiler.

The compiler probably is using more SSE by itself. It's also doing a better job compiling SSE intrinsics (the SSE code we write) into machine code.

Since CPU architectures change with time, it sort of makes sense that a newer compiler can make choices that perform better on newer CPUs.

jmone · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2012, 08:18:56 pm »

V70 - 2638
V71 - 2862

...but the code base got almost 200K larger!

jmone · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2012, 08:43:48 pm »

HTPC
V70: 3730
V71: 3920

All looks OK to me and it may be a placebo but video playback seems to start quicker/smother

JustinChase · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2012, 08:58:02 pm »

Slower Math for me, but faster overall...

Running 'Math' benchmark...Score: 922
Running 'Image' benchmark...Score: 1845
Running 'Database' benchmark...Score: 2647
JRMark (version 18.0.70): 1804

Running 'Math' benchmark...Score: 917
Running 'Image' benchmark...Score: 1917
Running 'Database' benchmark...Score: 2661
JRMark (version 18.0.71): 1832

jmone · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2012, 09:14:21 pm »

The HTPC defiantly feels snappier to me when launching content. Could you try re-compiling in VS2013 and see if you get another 5% improvement for free

kensn · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2012, 09:15:54 pm »

Well not sure what the cause.. but ...

I was looking at my cover flow for movies and was experiencing the stutter that was mentioned in another thread. I went back tonight to look at it is noticeably smoother.
This is on a Nvidia 560.

Ken

fitbrit · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2012, 11:56:24 pm »

JRMark (version 18.0.70): 1725
JRMark (version 18.0.71): 2213
(+28.3%

) i3 530 + N450GTS

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2012, 12:41:18 am »

i7 2600k/16GB/256GB SSD:
18.0.70: 4398/4245/4358. Ave = 4333.67
18.0.71: 4501/4505/4545/4395/4573. Ave = 4503.8

Increase: 3.93%

I'll test the HTPC later today.

marko · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2012, 12:59:23 am »

JRMark (version 18.0.70): 3006
JRMark (version 18.0.71): 3113

jmone · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2012, 01:00:59 am »

Quote from: Matt on November 08, 2012, 05:10:58 pm

I'm not sure when or if we're going to move to VS2012, but I wanted to give it a try for a build.

I vote that you try it for say... the next 71 Builds!

TheLion · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2012, 01:30:37 am »

I also vote for making the switch permanently. I am neurotic enough and open to any kind of placebo effect so to get the impression that this new build feels a touch "snappier". But no, I don't think it sounds better...

Hendrik · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2012, 01:53:01 am »

I personally had some issues with VS2012 when building LAV, so i'm not switching yet myself.

Lasse_Lus · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2012, 01:57:45 am »

i get the message "..not a valid Win32 application." ?

Hendrik · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2012, 03:09:50 am »

Sounds like its either using CPU instructions that your CPU doesn't support, or OS features which are too new for you.

Or the good old corrupted download, most likely. :p

Lasse_Lus · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2012, 04:19:50 am »

Quote from: nevcairiel on November 09, 2012, 03:09:50 am

Sounds like its either using CPU instructions that your CPU doesn't support

i read about the change to SSE2, even though i dont have a new computer (2005) according to everest it should support it, or am i misreading

AndrewFG · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2012, 04:27:24 am »

Quote from: Matt on November 08, 2012, 07:32:46 pm

There's nothing we've done to help JRMark.

So the differences are entirely the compiler.

The compiler probably is using more SSE by itself. It's also doing a better job compiling SSE intrinsics (the SSE code we write) into machine code.

Since CPU architectures change with time, it sort of makes sense that a newer compiler can make choices that perform better on newer CPUs.

Following is a quote from the Microsoft document (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/hh975398.aspx) referenced in the other thread about SSE2.

Quote

Streaming SIMD Extensions 2 (SSE2) is a previous standard that is supported in Intel and AMD processors. All processors that support NX also support SSE2. Many Windows 8 applications have code paths with the SSE2 instruction set. Performance optimizations in the latest versions of Visual Studio are enhanced to generate SSE2 instructions by default. To prevent these applications from crashing when running on a system without SSE2 support, the SSE2 support requirement is also enforced in Windows 8.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2012, 04:40:54 am »

Running on a medium specced Dell Laptop with i5-2540M @ 2.60GHz & win7 pro x64

Build 70: 2699
Build 71: 2913

= 7.35% speed increase?

If it does not introduce serious issues, I would say GO for it

bytestar · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2012, 05:04:05 am »

Running 'Math' benchmark... Score: 1888
Running 'Image' benchmark... Score: 2386
Running 'Database' benchmark... Score: 2577
JRMark (version 18.0.70): 2284

Running 'Math' benchmark... Score: 1887
Running 'Image' benchmark... Score: 2695
Running 'Database' benchmark... Score: 2673
JRMark (version 18.0.71): 2417

Matt · « **Reply #27 on:** November 09, 2012, 09:17:29 am »

Quote from: Lasse_Lus on November 09, 2012, 01:57:45 am

i get the message "..not a valid Win32 application." ?

They removed XP support. Lots of people complained (surprise!).

Fortunately they've released an update to Visual Studio to allow compiling something that runs on XP. A little more here:

http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/how-to-get-visual-c-2012-vc-11-beta-statically-linked-crt-and-mfc-applications-to-run-on-windows-xp/

Hendrik · « **Reply #28 on:** November 09, 2012, 09:30:33 am »

At least they released an official CTP update already to allow you to target XP again.

Personally, i think supporting an 11 year old OS is equally bad as supporting equally old CPUs without SSE2.

TheLion · « **Reply #29 on:** November 09, 2012, 11:40:09 am »

Quote from: Matt on November 09, 2012, 09:17:29 am

They removed XP support. Lots of people complained (surprise!).

Fortunately they've released an update to Visual Studio to allow compiling something that runs on XP. A little more here:

http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/how-to-get-visual-c-2012-vc-11-beta-statically-linked-crt-and-mfc-applications-to-run-on-windows-xp/

Are you saying my fancy Windows Me system isn't working either??

Scandalo!

MrHaugen · « **Reply #30 on:** November 09, 2012, 12:24:31 pm »

Ruling out XP would not be a great idea.... Yet. There's still quite a few around.
If it's easy to make it compile for XP, I have little problem with it.

TheLion · « **Reply #31 on:** November 09, 2012, 01:41:42 pm »

Yes, the problem is that Vista was so bad that many lost faith in MS and just sticked with XP . It seems history repeats itself with Windows 8 - I guess most will stick to Win7 and even XP.

On the other hand still continuing to support an 11 years old OS (as in making sure every new feature runs there as well) requires many ressources from Matt and Co and therefor gets more and more in the way of progress.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #32 on:** November 09, 2012, 02:08:51 pm »

I know. We have a lot of this kind of decisions in our company as well. It's not exactly fun stuff. But I think the best time to do this switch is to follow Microsoft's own end of support plans. That will give JRiver a very good argument as well. As far as I know, this is the current plan for End of Support.

Windows XP SP3 and Office 2003
Support Ends April 8, 2014

jmone · « **Reply #33 on:** November 09, 2012, 02:25:56 pm »

But it is also a balance of what limitations are being placed on those with current OS? Eg we are seeing good performance bumps in the above posts, so to keep with the old compiler is now a deliberate decision to sacrifice performance for those with a current OS.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #34 on:** November 09, 2012, 02:48:26 pm »

OPERATING SYSTEM TOTAL MARKET SHARE
Windows 7   40.42%
Windows XP   36.02%
Windows Vista   5.03%

Other OS not mentioned. This is from October.

With those numbers in mind, you have to think about those 36%. Even though many of them are company computers, there's still a lot of potential users on this aging platform.

glynor · « **Reply #35 on:** November 09, 2012, 05:13:44 pm »

Quote from: nevcairiel on November 09, 2012, 09:30:33 am

At least they released an official CTP update already to allow you to target XP again.

Personally, i think supporting an 11 year old OS is equally bad as supporting equally old CPUs without SSE2.

Hah! I'm with you on this, nev.

Craig · « **Reply #36 on:** November 11, 2012, 02:38:48 pm »

I got fed up of chasing the latest and greatest,
my main PC is an intel 6600 2.4G running XP and it still does everything I want (well unless it won't run MC anymore)

Craig

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Author Topic: Media Center 18.0.71 [experimental] (Read 5624 times)