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[MrHaugen]

This is a nice improvement! Finally it's possible to use those box set setups without going nuts of all the extra clicking and ugly empty views.

This means that you don't get the info pane for the single items, right? If so, that's a shame. I hope that one day we'll be able to enable the info pane for multiple levels so you can have info pane on views like this, as well as info views for Series, Seasons, Artists and Albums as examples. It would give a nice overview with some stats and other info.

Also what I'm missing is an automated way of doing what's illustrated above. There should be little reason not to download the "Part of" box set info from tmdb, to do this more automatically for the users.

[tls62dk]

You do get the info pane for the single items. That is the neat part. MC jumps directly down to that level when only a single file is there, as you can see in the screen shot of the King Kong movie. Is that what you are thinking about?

I would love to see "part off a box set" downloaded from tmdb or imported from My Movies too. My Movies already has this function built-in.

[MrHaugen]

You do get the info pane for the single items. That is the neat part. MC jumps directly down to that level when only a single file is there, as you can see in the screen shot of the King Kong movie. Is that what you are thinking about?

I'm not talking about the full screen info view that you get after entering a movie. I'm talking about the Pane on the right side. That only worked for bottom items before.
I understand that this does not show for the top level of box sets, but it should show for the single movie items. As it does today (if you don't disable it all together through the templates). My hope is that MC somehow disregards the empty middle step (series or sequel part) and show the info pane for those items. If so, GREAT. If not, meh. Not sure I'll use that. The small info pane is really important to me, for viewing certain details like duration and ratings on the movies.

[tls62dk]

I agree. I would also prefere to have the the small info pane on the right side (or at least the choice), but this is a good start for me. I had my movie serie in a seperate view before, so this is definately a step in the right direction.

[JustinChase]

This is a nice improvement! Finally it's possible to use those box set setups without going nuts of all the extra clicking and ugly empty views.

This means that you don't get the info pane for the single items, right? If so, that's a shame. I hope that one day we'll be able to enable the info pane for multiple levels so you can have info pane on views like this, as well as info views for Series, Seasons, Artists and Albums as examples. It would give a nice overview with some stats and other info.

Also what I'm missing is an automated way of doing what's illustrated above. There should be little reason not to download the "Part of" box set info from tmdb, to do this more automatically for the users.

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for, but I think you may already have it.  It functions just like before, in that a view with several movies only shows the movies, and the last step in the selection process, which only shows a single movie has the info panel, which I believe shows the information you want.  the only change is that when a selection has just one movie, it skips the small info panel and goes right to the last, large info panel.  It sounds like you might want the small info panel for the multiple movie view, but this doesn't make much sense to me, since there's no 'good' way to combine this info for several movies.

It only takes a second to try the new view, so give it a whirl.  Populate the [Series] on your Star Wars or Lord of the Rings movies, then use this expression {If(IsEmpty([Series]), [Name], [Series])} and you'll see those movies get grouped, but the rest are shown in order.

Also, I don't see how

Theatre View will have to be redesigned to accommodate the new 'feature'.

It works fantastically well as it is.  If someone disagrees, they should start a new thread to discuss it, and not muck up this one with disagreement from what is otherwise being hailed as a VERY welcome change, apart from this one, single, solitary negative comment.

Thanks again for doing this Matt

[Grenache]

and the expression I used.

Code: [Select]

if(isempty([sequel]),[name],[sequel]\[name])&datatype=[list]

Thank you! This is working perfectly. Now I just wish (even more than before) that we could change the "list style" of each view level independently. I have my movies grouped on Country, Language, Actor, Instructor and so on, and it would be way better if I, for example,  could see the actors as a list and then the movies staring this actor as covers.

[Grenache]

Thanks again for doing this Matt

+1 to this.

[JustinChase]

Thank you! This is working perfectly. Now I just wish (even more than before) that we could change the "list style" of each view level independently. I have my movies grouped on Country, Language, Actor, Instructor and so on, and it would be way better if I, for example,  could see the actors as a list and then the movies staring this actor as covers.

I believe there is an option to group by Actor (or Director) already in Theater View.  I'm not sure if it does what you want, but some clever expressions might help you there.

I'm not a design guru, so perhaps you can't do what you want, but you might give it a play, and see if you can get something at least close

[Grenache]

I believe there is an option to group by Actor (or Director) already in Theater View.  I'm not sure if it does what you want, but some clever expressions might help you there.

Thanks, but I already got it all grouped the way I want using some more or less clever expressions. I was just complaining that in Theater View the layout (or the "List View" that you can toggle in the menu under "More") can't be different between the different levels of views (or "screens", if you want). So for example if I set the "List View" of my Actors grouping to "List with small covers", the next level, where I see the corresponding movies, also shows as a "List with small covers" while I would prefer to see them as a grid of covers. In other words, if I change the layout/List View at the parent-level, the layout/List View for the child-level is also changed. I really wish I could have different layouts/List Views depending on the level/grouping.

[MrHaugen]

I got my own post. Weeeee!

It only takes a second to try the new view, so give it a whirl.  Populate the [Series] on your Star Wars or Lord of the Rings movies, then use this expression {If(IsEmpty([Series]), [Name], [Series])} and you'll see those movies get grouped, but the rest are shown in order.

I tried this. With the expression "If(IsEmpty(Part Of]), [Name], [Part Of])" I get all the box set movies that I've entered the "Part Of" name. The rest of the movies are grouped in the Unassigned group. So, this is pretty useless, except from a pure box set view. If you expect people to enter "series" or "part of" data for each movie, you've got to be crazy Or perhaps you auto fill it with the name of the movie? That might work. But it's still more complicated than it should be.

I tried another approach with "if(isempty([Part Of]),[name],[Part Of]\[name])&datatype=

". This worked much better, but I still have two problems. The zoom effect does not work on the single items here. I still have the extra level. First I have the name of the movie and no info pane on the right. After entering the item I have the small info pane and the movie caption as I would expect on the first page. THEN you get to the full screen info pane when you enter the single item again.

Am I missing something here? Why ain't my setup zooming right into the full screen info page?

[Hendrik]

I created a new custom field called "Movie Series", and changed my Movies view to show a Category based on this Expression:

Code: [Select]

If(IsEmpty([Movie Series]),[Name],[Movie Series])

Nothing else was required, all movies i fill a "Movie Series" now get grouped, everything else is still listed as before.
Movies "zoom" directly to the detailed page, and "Movie Series" show a list of the movies in that series.

The more complicated thing like this:

Code: [Select]

If(IsEmpty([Movie Series]),[Name],[Movie Series]\[Name])&datatype=[list]seems to also work, but i fail to see why it would be required when my simple thing works just fine?

So stick to the simple expression, i will!

[JustinChase]

I tried this. With the expression "If(IsEmpty(Part Of]), [Name], [Part Of])" I get all the box set movies that I've entered the "Part Of" name. The rest of the movies are grouped in the Unassigned group. So, this is pretty useless, except from a pure box set view. If you expect people to enter "series" or "part of" data for each movie, you've got to be crazy Or perhaps you auto fill it with the name of the movie? That might work. But it's still more complicated than it should be.

I'm not sure why it's not working for you, it sounds like you're doing it right.  I wrote up a little "how to" on the other thread which might help...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76987.msg521753#msg521753

The second part of that shows how to sort the series differently from the main Movie view, which is nice.

Also, before this was implemented, I'd just do a "Move / Copy fields..." command From [Name] to [Series] to populate it.  You could do this on all empty [Part of] fields to fill them all in instantly, but it should not be necessary.

Let us know if you're still having trouble, it's very worth the effort

[MrHaugen]

There's something wrong here. Perhaps it's just my stupidity.

First I tried this:http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76987.msg521656#msg521656
I've added a [Part Of] field with the expression: If(IsEmpty(Part Of]), [Name], [Part Of])
Added a sub item to my movie category. Named it "Single and Box Set", added the "Part Of" field that contains the expression.
Set the rules for file display as Media Sub Type Movie, as well as Part Of, Year and Name fields as sorting criteria.

I only get one item in that view. It says it's a circular reference. I've tried to remove the Part Of field from the sorting, but that does not help. I've tried other expressions.

Then I started thinking. Isn't it wrong to have the "Part Of" library field as an expression when it's supposed to contain string values? So I changed the field to string again, and added the expression in the view again. This gave med the exact same thing as I had earlier. A few box sets, and a unassigned category with the rest of the movies.

So, I'm back at square 1

[Hendrik]

I hope you're not copy pasting your expression, because its missing an opening square bracer?

If(IsEmpty([Part Of]), [Name], [Part Of])

The field should be string, and the expression in the view.

[JustinChase]

Yeah, I suspect Nev has nailed the problem (replace ( with [ in your expression), but in case there's more, here are some photos.

The first is a photo of the Theater View setup where I'm entering the expression.  The only thing you should need to change is replace is "Series" with "Part of", like so... If(IsEmpty([Part of]), [Name], [Part of]).*

The next is how I'm sorting the view.

Let us know if you still can't get it working.

*Why not just use Series, since it's correctly describing what you want, and doesn't require any new fields to worry about?

[MrHaugen]

Thanks Nev. It was the simple bracket missing.

So, this works pretty much like I thought it would. And it's not great.

1. The captions for the single movies are not shown. This makes such box set views almost useless for me. I'm way to used to seeing the rating and watched/not watched counters of the movies. Would it be possible to show the normal caption for the single item movies, at the zoomed in level? That means this have to be evaluated at the time you enter the view. Not after selecting or entering an item. The box set caption should be left as it is. This makes it easy to spot the box sets, and clearly separate them from the single items.

2. There are no info panes in such views. This is a big problem for me, as I want to see some basic info before I choose to investigate the title more in the big info pane. I would love if there was a way to activate the info pane for all items in such a view, using the info on the "zoomed" in item, and leaving the box set info pane blank. You need to have the pane there for all items, as it would be to confusing changing the number of thumbnails in view each time the box set or not is selected.
I know this sounds easier than it is. We're talking about the thing I've been looking for for the last 10 years here. Info panes for more than the last level items. Like Seasons, Series, Artist, Album and now Box set. Relational fields and stats that can be viewed for a set of media files. We need this sooner than later. Other competing media center have had this for ages.

I can live with one of these things being fixed for now, but I can not manage without caption AND the info pane at once.

In any case, thanks for the effort anyway, Matt. I'm sure that this is enough for some.

Yeah, I suspect Nev has nailed the problem (replace ( with [ in your expression), but in case there's more, here are some photos.

The first is a photo of the Theater View setup where I'm entering the expression.  The only thing you should need to change is replace is "Series" with "Part of", like so... If(IsEmpty([Part of]), [Name], [Part of]).*

The next is how I'm sorting the view.

Let us know if you still can't get it working.

*Why not just use Series, since it's correctly describing what you want, and doesn't require any new fields to worry about?

Thanks. It's all working now. Even though it's pretty useless for me
I've created the Part Of field because box sets are not the same as series for me. And "Part Of" is the next logical meta data to be added from tmdb. That way I don't have to change things all over again.

[JustinChase]

I can't say I understand your problem with this.  I suspect you've highly modified the stock views and that's causing the consternation.  The only thing this has done, as far as I can see, is skip showing a partial information screen for individual movies, and go straight to a full information screen.  If there was information you wanted on the partial information screen, I think you could just add it to the large information screen, otherwise, all this has done is save a click, and make it 'flow' better.

You said in item 1 that captions for single movies are not shown, and this makes box set views useless.  Isn't this 2 separate things?  If you go into a series or bx set view, it shows all movies in the set, and hovering over any movie shows the information for that movie, which is exactly the same as it has always been.  Nothing here has changed.  if you select one of these movies, it takes you to the full information screen, again, exactly like it has always done.  Nothing has changed with the functionality of this from before this change was made.

if you select a movie that is not part of a set, it just skips the first view (where you can select from multiple movies if in a series or box set), and takes you right to the large information screen.  From a stock Theater View implementation, the information contained in the screen that gets skipped is all contained in the screen that it skips to, so no information is lost by this.

Maybe some screen shots of what your unhappy about would help, but I don't see that anything has been lost here, except the extra click where unnecessary.

FWIW, I couldn't be happier with this change, it's perfect for how I browse movies.

[Hendrik]

You could easily make the category used for the big list include your caption info, just needs some expression love.
Info pane in this view will most likely exceed what this feature is meant to do.

I personally would like having the small info pane available in such views, however having this feature without the small info pane is still preferable if i had to decide between the two.

[MrHaugen]

You could easily make the category used for the big list include your caption info, just needs some expression love.

And how would you accomplish that? I have not the slightest idea how to bring the caption up from the file level and bring them to other views.

I can't say I understand your problem with this.

You seem to miss the point about browsing movies, while getting the information needed. Instead of entering the big info pane to get all the details you need. For me, and everyone else, that is one enter and a couple of left clicks to view the info and to get back at the main menu. This is totally unacceptable for me. I like to see things as genre, year, rating and watched/not watched status. I like to look through this info for lots of movies, and going into the big info pane for it all would be very time consuming and annoying. You say that it works just like usual. I do not agree. Not for those of us that never had box set views before. I highly doubt that many used it before this "zoom" feature was added. We're used to seeing captions as well as info panes for movie views. Loosing both is a rather drastic way to just limit multiple movies of the same series in that view.

I have captions with watched/not watched markers, name as well as the rating. Without this is it makes it hard to spot watched movies, or to see the ratings with a quick glance of the available movies. Of couse, I can create views which excludes the watched titles, but that means effectively doubling my views. I have some of them today, but I would like to not have more than necessary. When I in addition does not have the small info pane to view those stats, it takes a lot of time to spot the movies I want.

It can't be that hard to see that this is a big problem for some of us?

I know this fix was not intended to solve all problems. I'm just saying that there are still some major problems here, despite the good changes.

[Hendrik]

And how would you accomplish that? I have not the slightest idea how to bring the caption up from the file level and bring them to other views.

Consider you have this expression now:
If(IsEmpty([Part Of]), [Name], [Part Of])

Instead of the [Name] part, just add the same expression there that makes up your caption usually.

[MrHaugen]

That work might work, yes. I'll try it later. Tanks!

*Edit*
Hah. It did work! Almost as expected. The caption is all good. Watched/Not Watched indicators, name and ratings present. And the box set items includes just the name. Awesome. The problem is that the sorting is really bad now. Because I have check marks in front of the movie names, all my not watched movies go first, then the watched once. And the box sets are sorted last for some reason.
Do I have to add some expression to the sorting as well? I'm using this expression:

Code: [Select]

<font color="C3FFB3">Watched(2)<//font>[Name] <font color="C3FFB3">[Critic Rating Stars]<//font>

[JustinChase]

And how would you accomplish that? I have not the slightest idea how to bring the caption up from the file level and bring them to other views.
You seem to miss the point about browsing movies, while getting the information needed. Instead of entering the big info pane to get all the details you need. For me, and everyone else, that is one enter and a couple of left clicks to view the info and to get back at the main menu. This is totally unacceptable for me. I like to see things as genre, year, rating and watched/not watched status. I like to look through this info for lots of movies, and going into the big info pane for it all would be very time consuming and annoying. You say that it works just like usual. I do not agree. Not for those of us that never had box set views before. I highly doubt that many used it before this "zoom" feature was added. We're used to seeing captions as well as info panes for movie views. Loosing both is a rather drastic way to just limit multiple movies of the same series in that view.

I have captions with watched/not watched markers, name as well as the rating. Without this is it makes it hard to spot watched movies, or to see the ratings with a quick glance of the available movies. Of couse, I can create views which excludes the watched titles, but that means effectively doubling my views. I have some of them today, but I would like to not have more than necessary. When I in addition does not have the small info pane to view those stats, it takes a lot of time to spot the movies I want.

It can't be that hard to see that this is a big problem for some of us? If it is, then it's rather a lack of willingness to see things from other peoples perspective.

I know this fix was not intended to solve all problems. I'm just saying that there are still some major problems here, despite the good changes.

First, I'm not trying to argue, nor am I unwilling to see things from others perspectives, I honestly just don't understand what the "major" issue is.  I've used a "Series" view for my Movies forever, so for me, nothing has changed, other than the skipping of the unnecessary step.  However, after thinking about it some more, I think I might understand what you're saying.  Without the Series view, the 'regular' Movie view has some information on the right side, with movies on the left.  This is no longer the case with the new view (which I've been using forever).  I suppose your complaint is that you need/want this information to browse movies.

I can't say that I have a way to bring this back, but I will question the value of this information.  Honestly, how many movies do you have that you don't know the basic information about?  I know the general idea/plot/information of every movie I have in my collection, so I can browse by name, and know what all the movies are about, for the most part.  If there is one that a guest, or even myself doesn't know information about, I can click "ok" on the remote to see more information about that one movie.  I can then click the back button to go back to where I was.  I don't find this to be difficult, or unwelcome, so I, personally, don't need or want the minimal information that the 'old' or 'stock' view provided, since it just lets me see fewer movies on the screen at one time.

However, I absolutely respect your wishes to have this information.  I just don't see a need for it personally.

So, unfortunately, it seems you have to choose between having your box sets grouped together, or seeing some information for every movie as you're browsing.  For me, a very easy choice.  However, we all consume media differently.

Maybe there is another way to get you the information you want with the new view (I suspect a clever expression is the answer).

**I just looked again, and I still have the original "Name" view under movies, which shows the info panel to the right of the movies.  I guess this is what you're missing with the new view.  I suppose it's not currently possible to have this layout with the extra layer the series or "Box set" requires, so you'll have to choose which way you want to browse.  I have the 2 views right next to one another, so it's easy enough to view by either method.

[MrHaugen]

You're right. It is a personal taste. You've lived without the info panes and possibly the custom cation for a long time. So, why would you miss it much? You also spend a lot more time getting to know your movies, than I do. I often just hear of a good movie, go to imdb and add it to my watch list. After a little while it's in my MC. Often I do not know much more than it's name. That's why I need ratings to easily spot the good once. It's also why I need the duration and genre in the info page.

Living with two views is not really a good solution. Why would you change from one to the other? Just to collapse the box set movies, and then loose all the info? I don't see my self changing views for that reason. If I manage to get the sorting issue fixed with the captions, I might do without the Info Pane though. So, it's still hope.

[ldoodle]

This isn't working for me - I still get the single item level.

Take this example;
Name = Only Fools and Horses: Series 1

Series = Only Fools and Horses
Season = Only Fools and Horses: Series 1

Theater View config for TV is Series followed by Season

So in Theater View for 1 item levels I still have to go TV > Only Fools and Horses (Series) > Only Fools and Horses: Series 1 (Season) > Only Fools and Horses: Series 1 (Name), to get to the info pane level when I can press 'Watch'. In this scenario pressing on Only Fools and Horses: Series 1 at the Season level should skip the Name level as it contains only 1 item.

That's what I was expecting anyway. For series' with multiple discs it's perfect;

TV > Only Fools and Horses (Series) > Only Fools and Horses: Series 1 (Season) > Only Fools and Horses: Series 1 [Disc 1/2] (Name).

[JustinChase]

You're right. It is a personal taste. You've lived without the info panes and possibly the custom cation for a long time. So, why would you miss it much? You also spend a lot more time getting to know your movies, than I do. I often just hear of a good movie, go to imdb and add it to my watch list. After a little while it's in my MC. Often I do not know much more than it's name. That's why I need ratings to easily spot the good once. It's also why I need the duration and genre in the info page.

Living with two views is not really a good solution. Why would you change from one to the other? Just to collapse the box set movies, and then loose all the info? I don't see my self changing views for that reason. If I manage to get the sorting issue fixed with the captions, I might do without the Info Pane though. So, it's still hope.

hehe, it's not that I spend time getting to know my movies, it's just that for me to have it, I knew enough at one time to know I wanted it, and I usually remember enough to make a decision about it when browsing, or I just click on it to see more info if necessary.  I don't mind taking the extra step to read a description from time to time, I just don't need/want to do it often.  It's also why I don't change from one view to another.  I had actually forgotten the "Name" view, with the info pane even existed.

Hopefully you can get the expressions worked out to show you what you need to know when browsing, and learn to love the wider view of movies without the 'wasted space' of the info panel

Also, I purposefully try NOT to know too much about a movie before watching it.  I find that trailers give me most of the good parts, and plot, so I'm not too surprised when I watch the full movie.  I try to avoid them.  I prefer going into a movie 'ignorant' about it 

This isn't working for me - I still get the single item level.

Take this example;
Name = Only Fools and Horses: Series 1

Series = Only Fools and Horses
Season = Only Fools and Horses: Series 1

I don't quite get what you're doing here, but I suspect that the part bolded above is the problem.  I suspect you should just have "1" for Season, not all the rest of that.  You already know the Series, so putting it in the Season field again is unnecessary, and probably confuses MC.

I would have it like so...

Series = Only Fools and Horses
Season = 1
Episode = 1
Name = Big Brother

[ldoodle]

Thanks Justin, I did think that.

But the reason for doing it like that is that when going into the Series, it would just show '1', '2', '3' etc, which looks a bit naff and is meaningless, to me anyway.

I suppose I could create a new custom Season field that prefixes the word Series and appends the value of the Season tag to get around this. I guess I could also prepend the Series as well, so Series Name plus 'Series' + Season number.

As I don't have individual episodes, but rather whole disc rips which contain mulitple episodes with full menus, what should I put in the Episode tag?

[JustinChase]

MC was changed recently to append the "Season" to the individual numbers now, so that should be resolved for you by just entering numbers.

As for the episodes, I think using Particles is your answer.  there are several threads on using particles, but i've never used them myself.  I believe the other threads have indicated that they can easily separate your episodes from the disc rips for MC to see then as separate.  (Like a cue sheet for movies).

i'd give that a go, and respond here, or in one of those threads for more specific help with that, if you get stuck.

[ldoodle]

Nope, still get the additional level. So now its

Root of TV Shows > Only Fools and Horses > 1/2/3 etc > Season 1 > Info panel.

The bolded level should not be there as Series 1 only contains 1 disc. For 2 disc items this level should be there to show the 2 discs.

How would I setup Particles as I have no idea where on the disc each episode starts and finishes?

EDIT: Won't be using Particles, EVER. Just created a test one which didn't work so deleted it - and it's deleted the whole series - why does deleting particles delete the actual video files as well?!?!?!?!? F... sake have to re-rip it now and shakes head.

[JustinChase]

I don't use discs.  I'm not sure how they affect any of this.  I rip everything to an individual episode.  I don't know if the logic of the new system is being confused by the disc part of what you are doing.

I have Series > Season > Episode, which seems to work fine with all this.

[ldoodle]

I'll take some screenshots to show it better.

[ldoodle]

OK, screenshots attached.

As you can see, the '2nd level' is clearly not needed here as it's only one item. This happens for all single items, whether it's a film or the aforementioned TV series.

This is what I always meant regarding single items.

For a 2 or more disc film/TV series, this level is required as it would show the 2 or more items.

[JustinChase]

Are you sure you're using a recent version of Media Center?  The 2nd level you show, which you don't want to see, is exactly the level that was eliminated with this change.  I do not have that second level.  I use a different view for browsing movies, but I switched to the view you show, and tested on the same movie, and I don't get the second level, it auto zooms past it directly to the third screenshot you show.

If you are using a recent version of MC, and this is happening, you should probably post a screenshot of your settings for that view in the Theater View setup.

If you want, I can post my settings screen, but this sure feels like you are not using the most recent version.

**EDIT:  in looking closer at your first screenshot, the second roller shows name and genre.  I think this is your problem.  It will only skip when it gets past the roller with only one option.  If you want to view/browse by Genre, then i suggest you create a different view for Genre, separate from Name.  Then when you pick a name with only one choice it should skip the single choice and take you to the last screenshot.

[JustinChase]

Here is what my options looks like.  hope it helps

[ldoodle]

Thanks Justin. All sorted now 

[JustinChase]

great, happy I could help

[ldoodle]

Actually, not quite there, but I've figured out what's wrong.

It's all to do with the list style. If I have the 2nd level as in my 1st level screenshot above, it doesn't work properly. I have to have it in this list style for it to bypass the 2nd level for single items (i'm not sure uf the list style have names?). Is this by design or a bug?