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[daveman]

I love MC... however, as someone who is trying to learn more about the system, it is difficult to try to advance my knowledge.

The Wiki provides some information as does the forum but each option requires a search and often information is missing.

As the new version is being developed, I would love to see mouse sensitive help.  That is, when the mouse is placed over an option, a bubble will appear explaining the option,

For example, as I try to play with advanced DLNA settings, I am unable to find out what these options actually mean.

I can not be the only novice user who would benefit from this feature.  This would also make the software more accessible to new users.

The reluctance to develop a better help system is rather surprising to me.  While you might think that the Wiki is more than enough, I find it to be outdated with many references going back to version 13 or under.  Also, the wiki is NOT comprehensive leaving many options lacking in explanation.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave

[glynor]

I think their answer is that JRiver is a very small team, and they spend the lion's share of their available resources on improving the product.

I agree, generally.

I've posited before, though, that the only way to really solve this problem long-term is to dedicate resources to it.  There are many nice things that could be done in this realm (walkthrough screencasts on the web, more detailed help, and yes, as you suggest, a context-sensitive built-in help system).  They just need someone on the team who's job it is to do this stuff (rather than off the side of their desk).

But then, that takes away from resources that could otherwise be spent on things like porting MC to OSX and adding whiz-bang new features.  Everything is a trade-off.

[daveman]

I for one would like to see this become a priority once MC18  has been completed.

Maybe some "advanced" users can help with a context sensitive help system?

Dave

[JimH]

I think search is the future for finding the information you may need. 

I'll give you an example. 

In 1990, we had phone books and yellow pages.  If we wanted to make a call, we looked up the number in the phone book.  Or if we wanted the hours, we either called the store, or looked in the yellow pages to see if their hours were printed.

Now we do a search.  "telephone Backbay Restaurant" or "hours Backbay Restaurant". 

In other words, the organization of the information isn't as important, since search is now so good.

[Matt]

I routinely use Google to find something on this forum.

If I can remember a single word I used, it's often enough.  For example, to find my sad projector story, this works:
matt jriver projector

It amazes me that Google can return results this good in a fraction of a second, despite the fact that it's searching everything on the Internet (not just JRiver).

[daveman]

I respectfully disagree.

Using just the DLNA Servers options section....

For example, I would like to know what "DLNAExtra" is or what is the purpose of "Include Session ID"

how can a naive user learn this... there are several posts (that one must review and spend quite a bit of time) knowing that it should be turned on for certain renderers but no where do I find out what it actually means.

Also, my second example,  there is not a single post that explains this.

What the hell does Enable Bitrate Field even mean and why would I want to log file requests?

I want to use and become expert in MC but you simply do not provide the tools to make this an option for a person that has limited amount of time.

While search is great, the information must first exist.

There are so many options in MC (which is what makes the pgm so great) but I would bet that most users do not even make use of them do to lack of clear information.

Dave

[JimH]

Using just the DLNA Servers options section....

For example, I would like to know what "DLNAExtra" is or what is the purpose of "Include Session ID"

Try Google on DLNAExtra.

I don't even know what it means.  It's just a setting that some devices need.

[daveman]

... and everything else??

[JimH]

If you need help with DLNA, please post on the Media Network board.  Try a search here for your device first.

[daveman]

JimH,

Respectfully, you are missing the entire point of my topic.  This was but a single example.  The issue is that some type of context sensitive help would be beneficial for users.  I gave DLNA as an example but could have chosen any section within the options,

As I noted, MC is a GREAT pgm... More extensive help would make it even better.

The WIKI and Support is helpful but time consuming.  Having a one or 2 line context sensitive help would provide quick guidance for users.

[kstuart]

One problem with searching Google is that it is dependent on uniqueness of words.

Back years ago (probably Media Jukebox time), there was a music software program named "Flute".  Because of its name, it was impossible to find information about it - there was always thousands of pages about the musical instrument, and musical works, way before you would ever find information about the software.

If they had named it "Flupe", it would have been easy to find out about it using Google.

Similarly, for about every tenth search that I find myself doing, whether it is in Google, or in Interact for that matter, I find that the words used are so generic that they are used in too many contexts.

For example, one of those words in MC18 is "view".

Another aspect of Googling is that you need to know that word for something, before you can Google it.

For example, in MC18, there is an area at the top of the screen that has information about the current playing track and also the spectrum analyzer.  I don't know what the exact term is for that area, so I can't search for information on it.

[JimH]

I'm not missing your point.  I've read everything you've written.  I just don't think your proposal will solve the problem you're having.

If you're interest in DLNA, for example, you could go read the technical documents on line.  Or you could read about the problems of other people who use the same device you have.  Or you could ask here.

But we can't answer all the questions you might have.  DLNAExtra is a switch.  Try it to see if it works.  You don't need to know how Park works on your car in order to use it.

I'm sorry but it seems that you're a little disappointed in the answers.  I was just trying to explain how we think about documentation.  Matt too.

[kstuart]

Ultimately, starting a thread does seem to work - and you often do have to bump it, but there are a lot of different questions happening at the same time.

[datdude]

Agree with both sides. Search is great, but it won't find everything and some folks choose not to search regardless and make unecessary posts. There are some features and options that having a little info bubble would help users from making unecessary posts on the forum which would save the dev team time. 

[MrC]

I want to use and become expert in MC but you simply do not provide the tools to make this an option for a person that has limited amount of time.

Herein lies the problem.  Your goal is at odds with your strategy and resources.  By definition, it takes time and sustained effort to become an expert.  And experts become experts by taking the initiative to seek out information, ask questions, and discover the inner workings of a subject.

So you've asked a question - what is DLNAExtra?  And you've concluded that if there were bubble help in MC, you'd have the answer.  That probably is an erroneous conclusion.  I'd suggest that, probably bob, was very busy working all hours of the night to just get some silly DLNA device working.  He found he needed to add some extra request to get protocol information via a call to  DLNA's GetProtoSnipeHuntTonight().  And it worked, at least it seems.  Relieved, bob went home for a well-deserved rest.  And bob returns to work in the AM, and eee-gads, finds there are 30 more messages from disgruntled MC customers and other cretins,  about DLNA not working on 20 different devices.  So off bob goes, working into the night.  Lather, Rinse, Repeat.  Come week's end, bob realizes "I must be a good MC citizen of the Earth and document those new bizarre-but-useful options I added this week... that seem to work, but I'm not sure why".  The weekend passes with a few brews, the kids, and a lousy football match.  The cycle begins again afresh on Monday - bob works into the night...  Finally, one day, bob builds the courage to pound out some prose.... "DLNAExtra - Adds extra protocol support for DLNA".  But bob isn't so sure this will make daveman happy.  And he also realizes there's no way on god's green earth that DLNAExtra could be documented in any meaningful way to anyone, save the heaviest, neck-bearded, pringles eatin', 2-liter Coke drinkin', pear-shaped, voice-crackin "Worst Documentation Ever" shouting guy.

For daveman:  http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73744.msg525004#msg525004

[daveman]

You are focused on the single example if DLNAExtra.  If I wanted to become expert, I would dedicate the time... But first I need even the most basic explanation as to what an option means.  There are hundreds (maybe more) options in MC.  a one or 2 line explanation might provide me with some guidance as to whether the option is relevant to my needs after which I can do a more detailed search as to the nuance of the settings and how it might impact on other things.

Using the DLNAxtra (which you seem to think I am hooked on), a bubble could simply be something akin to "an optional setting that many DLNA servers require in order to properly steam video".  This might be enough for the naive user to check it our when they are unable to initially stream video.

a bubble will not provide ALL the solutions, but may provide a starting point for additional information and search.

As I indicated several times, I love MC, I have shown it to several friends who now either use it or are planning to switch to it.  I simply do not get the reluctance towards user friendliness.  Is it simply that MC wants to be an elitist based pgm with the goal of making it difficult for newbies to use?

to MrC - Although I do not generally get into flame wars and I will not comment any further that this - Your sarcastic tone is wonderful.  The best way to make a point is to sound arrogant and obnoxious.  My suggestion is simply to help teach people about the options of MC.  I bet that I am not the only person who thinks that the help/support/documentation is lacking but by you words and tone I guess you see no value in that. 

BTW, using your example about Bob, I for one would have been interested in the process that Bob needed to use to get DLNA working.... Maybe once Bob got things working he should have documented this somewhere, maybe in the Wiki?  Oh right, Bob is at home drunk after from having to answer 100 emails about what the hell DLNAExtra is used for.  Maybe a bubble that says, try this is DLNA does not stream for you would have solved the problem and saved him from a downward spiral into alcoholism.