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[berstuck]

Hello everyone, I am hopeful someone here has the expertise to help me with a problem I have.  Currently using latest build of MC 18 on my htpc. I have calibrated the television with avs forums hd calibration disc.  All 100 or so of my blue ray rips look beautiful.  The black levels are perfect, and the television is set up properly in the madvr settings to tv levels.  The problem arises when playing back any one of the 400 or so dvd rips.  The black levels on those movies are all grey, not black.  I can temporarily fix this by switching back to pc levels.  This is on a living room system, that is used by my wife and 5 year old son however so that is an inadequate solution.  

All my rips were made using makemkv, and I'm assuming that this is a codec problem.  I don't know enough about custom filters and settings within madvr however to know if there's an easy solution.  Any help is dearly appreciated.

[JimH]

Welcome to the forum.

Please try both Red October Standard and HQ (video settings).

Please post the full version # of what you're running.

[berstuck]

Problem exists on both standard and HQ, using media center 18.0.106.

[InflatableMouse]

That is strange. I have had it with a downloaded movie once or twice but never with my own rips. I have many bluray and dvd rips of my own, they are all displayed properly.

[berstuck]

Sorry I have to correct my earlier post.  The problem is only on ROHQ.  For some reason it displays the black levels completely differently between h264 content and mpeg2.  RO standard fixes it, although then everything looks poor.  ROHQ looks phenomenal with blu ray content, I just need a fix to my washed out dvd's and I'll be set.

[mykillk]

Under the processing->decoding section of the MadVR settings, do you have any of those options checked?

If you do, I'd recommend disabling them which will let LAV Video handle the decoding. That should get you a consistent result. I think LAV might default to PC levels though so you might need to do a couple extra steps to fully fix your issue.

[InflatableMouse]

Do you have an Nvidia card?

If so then try running madNvLevelsTweaker.exe from "C:\Users\YourAccount\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\madVR\" and reboot the system.

[mykillk]

Do you have an Nvidia card?

If so then try running madNvLevelsTweaker.exe from "C:\Users\YourAccount\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\madVR\" and reboot the system.

That's a tool to get nVidia cards to properly output full RGB 0-255 levels over HDMI. Since he has calibrated his TV for limited RGB 16-235 levels that tool would actually makes things worse.

However, with that said, I definitely DO recommend re-calibrating your TV to full-range 0-255 PC level RGB, if your TV supports it. Everything looks so much richer and better, and it avoids exactly the kind of issues you are experiencing.

All you'd have to do is set MadVR to PC levels, set your TV to PC levels (low black level or whatever it's called on your TV) and then re-run the AVS HD calibration files.

The caveat being that if you have other non-pc devices hooked up, they almost always use 16-235 and so they won't look right. So you'll need two presets on your TV (if possible), one for your PC and one for other stuff.

Hopefully, one day, everything will output 0-255 natively and 16-235 goes the way of the dodo bird.

[InflatableMouse]

sorry my reply was incomplete.

He said

I can temporarily fix this by switching back to pc levels.

I meant to suggest to switch entirely to full and calibrate for that like you suggested.

[berstuck]

Under the processing->decoding section of the MadVR settings, do you have any of those options checked?

If you do, I'd recommend disabling them which will let LAV Video handle the decoding. That should get you a consistent result. I think LAV might default to PC levels though so you might need to do a couple extra steps to fully fix your issue.

None of those software decoding boxes are checked.

That's a tool to get nVidia cards to properly output full RGB 0-255 levels over HDMI. Since he has calibrated his TV for limited RGB 16-235 levels that tool would actually makes things worse.

However, with that said, I definitely DO recommend re-calibrating your TV to full-range 0-255 PC level RGB, if your TV supports it. Everything looks so much richer and better, and it avoids exactly the kind of issues you are experiencing.

All you'd have to do is set MadVR to PC levels, set your TV to PC levels (low black level or whatever it's called on your TV) and then re-run the AVS HD calibration files.

The caveat being that if you have other non-pc devices hooked up, they almost always use 16-235 and so they won't look right. So you'll need two presets on your TV (if possible), one for your PC and one for other stuff.

Hopefully, one day, everything will output 0-255 natively and 16-235 goes the way of the dodo bird.

I'm using intel's hd4000 right now.  I could change the output from tv levels back to pc, however that would screw up the picture when watching satellite.  Also it won't solve my problem with washed out picture on dvd rips.  When I switch from tv levels to pc levels now it makes dvd watchable, but the blacks are so dark on blu ray that you can't see any detail.  So regardless of the settings there is an extreme difference still between the 2 types of content.

[berstuck]

Ok I've isolated the problem.  It is with madvr image upscaling.  If I choose any of the options under processing done by custom pixel shader code, the black levels on mpeg2 content are off by a mile.  If I choose DXVA for this option the black level is perfect.  What really is throwing me off however is that on my bedroom pc none of this occurs.

[mykillk]

Interesting. That's probably a bug that's already been fixed but I think MC18's MadVR is a few versions old at this point.

[stewart_pk]

I get this problem too using ROHQ. 0-255 is set for all applications in my ATI AMD video card settings.

[mykillk]

I get this problem too using ROHQ. 0-255 is set for all applications in my ATI AMD video card settings.

Well given what berstruck has said I'd go fishing around in the MadVR settings and see if anything helps you out there.

[mykillk]

For those experiencing this issue I definitely recommend updating to the new .122 build. It includes the latest version of MadVR.

[berstuck]

For those experiencing this issue I definitely recommend updating to the new .122 build. It includes the latest version of MadVR.

It unfortunately doesn't fix the issue.  I still have to use dxva for proper black levels on mpeg2 content using hd4000 graphics.  It's fine on my radeon cards in the bedroom though, so go figure.

[Hendrik]

Actually, the DXVA2 mode is the one thats wrong, you just have everythign setup backwards  

madVR doesn't mess up black levels. The thing with the DXVA mode is that once you start using the DXVA mode, the GPU Driver starts messing around with the image, and it screws up the black level, which is why its inconsistent.
Somewhere in your GPU Drivers settings you have probably configured something that causes this.

The fact that the black level is otherwise wrong for you just means that your PC outputs something the TV does not expect.
You can change inside madVR if your TV wants 0-255 or 16-235, and you can usually also change this in the GPU settings, however, it is crucial that you only change it once. If your GPU is setup for 16-235, and madVR is *also* setup for 16-235, then you get it wrong, because both compress the colors, and you get double compression. Either set both to 0-255, and you get full 0-255, or set one to 16-235, preferably madVR, and leave the GPU at 0-255. If that doesn't work, you can try to inverse it, set madVR to 0-255 and let the GPU do the compression to 16-235.

If your TV (and GPU) support it, i would always vote for setting both to 0-255, however i've had some issues with Intel before that it didn't work properly to set it 0-255, it always switched back to 16-235 when using HDMI.

[mdav]

What's the best settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel>Video>Adjust video color settings?

I've enabled use Player settings. Does that mean that everything is controlled by the MadVR settings, i.e. I get no double compression when choosing 16-255 in MadVR or full range through the GPU when choosing 0-255?

Or should I use NVIDIA settings and enable 0-255 under the Advance tab?

[Trumpetguy]

What's the best settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel>Video>Adjust video color settings?

I've enabled use Player settings. Does that mean that everything is controlled by the MadVR settings, i.e. I get no double compression when choosing 16-255 in MadVR or full range through the GPU when choosing 0-255?

Or should I use NVIDIA settings and enable 0-255 under the Advance tab?

Indeed a good question. I have always had the nvidia driver set to "use player settings", believing madvr (set to 16-255) took care of the dynamic range. So now I wonder about the same. Maybe Nevcariel could enlighten us? 

[Hendrik]

For NVIDIA always set stuff to "Use video player settings", and madVR should output stuff untouched.

[Trumpetguy]

For NVIDIA always set stuff to "Use video player settings", and madVR should output stuff untouched.

Excellent, thanks!

[mdav]

Hm, I've tested with switching between 16-255 and 0-255 in MadVR even if my TV only supports 16-255. I get more grayish black with 16-255 than with 0-255. How would that come?

[berstuck]

For NVIDIA always set stuff to "Use video player settings", and madVR should output stuff untouched.

My apologies for not posting this sooner, but I fixed my issue a while back.  This is basically the same thing in Intel's settings.  Under color management set everything to application controlled.