Topic: MC 18 and an Airport Express... (Read 5383 times)

VinBob · « **on:** February 10, 2013, 06:23:04 pm »

Hello All,
Sorry if this has been covered already but is it possible to stream audio from Media Center 18 to an Airport Express? If so, can someone please point me in the direction of a guide on what is required including any additional software tools required to make this work. Thanks!
Cheers,
V.

pcstockton · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2013, 06:39:21 pm »

I did this with some buggy dbPoweramp software that made the Airport "look" like a UPNP client. Cant remember the name of it though... AirUPNP maybe?

-Patrick

VinBob · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:50:36 pm »

Thanks Patrick. Yes, I just googled but do see more problems than good with AirUPNP which may be worth leaving alone. Anyone have any other recommendations for something that would provide a more robust solution?
Cheers,
V.

glynor · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2013, 09:03:08 pm »

AirFoil would almost certainly do it:
http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/windows/

It installs a "virtual" sound card driver into Windows, which you can then play to from any application (and which then, plays to the selected AirPlay devices on your network). In MC, this would be quite convenient, because you could set it up as a Zone.

VinBob · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2013, 09:56:44 am »

Thanks for the recommendation and will look into that!

Not sure I understand the Zone thing - so can I essentally configure a 'zone' which points to the AirFoil application withing MC 18? Any pointers within the MC 18 application on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Cheers,
V.

rjm · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:07:37 am »

AirFoil did not work for me on XP. Was ok on Win7. I think I described the problem in this forum.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:08:15 am »

Quote from: VinBob on February 11, 2013, 09:56:44 am

Thanks for the recommendation and will look into that!

Not sure I understand the Zone thing - so can I essentally configure a 'zone' which points to the AirFoil application withing MC 18? Any pointers within the MC 18 application on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Zones are kind-of like "sets of settings" within MC. And, yes, one of the primary reasons for the feature is to allow you to set up two (or more) "zones" of audio. So, the idea (for a normal implementation) is you'd have two sound cards in your PC. One is connected to the Amp/Receiver in the Living Room, and the other is connected to a little set of speakers you put on the Deck.

Then, you can set up two Zones in MC, one pointing to the "Living Room Sound Card", and the other pointing to the "Deck Sound Card".
This gives you two independent Playing Now lists. These Playing Now lists can be playing separate lists simultaneously, or "linked" and playing the same thing at the same time to both outputs.

Zones store almost all of the Output-related settings scattered around the Options dialog independently of the other zones. So, you could "bitstream" on one zone, and not on the other. Or have fancy DSP setups in a particular Zone, and a more "flat" default zone. Like I said above, think of it as a "set of settings" that you can quickly and easily switch to and use independently.

Essentially, you just add a new Zone via:
Player > Zones > Add Zone

Then, you configure MC normally (run through all the normal first-time setup stuff). Then, when you are setting up the Options > Audio > Output Mode, you will want to pick the sound device for that zone explicitly under Output Mode Settings, instead of leaving it set to "windows default". It will remember all the relevant settings independently for that particular zone. So, with Airfoil, you'd have your "real" sound card in the "main Zone". And then you'd add a second "AirPlay Zone" and set the Audio Output for that zone to your special AirFoil "sound card". More info here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Zones

If you use this feature, I find it handy to add the Zones button to the top or bottom toolbar, to allow you an easy way to quickly switch back and forth between available Zones.

VinBob · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:23:44 am »

Much appreciated Glynor

- I'll have a play when I get home later today...
Cheers,
V.

pcstockton · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:31:04 am »

I gave this a shot and it seems to simply hijack the local output and send it to the airport. I dont see a Zone popping up when I link AirFoil to MC18. How does one manually add a zone and assign it to the AirPort/Foil???

Thanks!
Patrick

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2013, 10:56:50 am »

Quote from: pcstockton on February 11, 2013, 10:31:04 am

I gave this a shot and it seems to simply hijack the local output and send it to the airport. I dont see a Zone popping up when I link AirFoil to MC18. How does one manually add a zone and assign it to the AirPort/Foil???

I've only ever actually used AirFoil on a Mac. It is possible the Windows version works differently.

It doesn't install a "virtual" Sound Device?

EDIT: Whatever the case, it looks like they test against MC. From their Knowledge Base article about WASAPI:

Quote

For example, in JRiver Media Center, you can turn off WASAPI by doing the following:

   1) From the Tools menu, select "Options"

   2) In the Audio settings, set "Audio Output Mode" to "Direct Sound"

Or, you can use Shared Mode WASAPI in JRiver Media Center:

   1) From the Tools menu, select "Options"

   2) In the Audio settings, set "Audio Output Mode" to "WASAPI"

   3) Click the box next to "Output Mode Settings"

   4) Uncheck the box marked "Open device for exclusive access".

However, I just looked through their webpage, and you're right... The Windows version looks a bit different (or they changed it since last I used it, which has been a LONG time). Either way, it looks like you can probably achieve the same effect via their Software. You might just have to play around with it a bit. If you can't figure it out, I'd email them. They have good email support there (I've used it before on other products from the same company I own).

Perhaps you can "bind" AirFoil to an otherwise-unused audio output on your PC, and then make a Zone for that?

One of these days I'm going to buy an Airport Express to put some music in the bathroom, and then I'll grab myself a copy of AirFoil. But till then, I don't have a good use for it at home.

pcstockton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2013, 11:59:26 am »

Thanks Glynor.

I will play further with it tonight.

I used an airport in the past as my Backyard/BBQ zone (using the AirUPnP program). I plugged the Airport into a decent little desktop PC speaker/sub set. It was very flakey so I stopped using and and tethered my iPhone to the speakers.

I have only used zones when then "pop up" in the zone area. How do you create a zone then link it to AirFoil?

Cheers!
Patrick

VinBob · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2013, 11:59:37 am »

Ah - I guess not as straightforward as we thought! - I have sent an e-mail to Rogue Amoeba and will let you know what they come back with. It doesn't look like they officially support MC specifically, only iTunes at this time...

Cheers,
V.

VinBob · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:01:53 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on February 11, 2013, 11:59:26 am

Thanks Glynor.

I will play further with it tonight.

I used an airport in the past as my Backyard/BBQ zone (using the AirUPnP program). I plugged the Airport into a decent little desktop PC speaker/sub set. It was very flakey so I stopped using and and tethered my iPhone to the speakers.

I have only used zones when then "pop up" in the zone area. How do you create a zone then link it to AirFoil?

Essentially, you just add a new Zone via:
Player > Zones > Add Zone

Then, you configure MC normally (run through all the normal first-time setup stuff). Then, when you are setting up the Options > Audio > Output Mode, you will want to pick the sound device for that zone explicitly under Output Mode Settings, instead of leaving it set to "windows default". It will remember all the relevant settings independently for that particular zone. So, with Airfoil, you'd have your "real" sound card in the "main Zone". And then you'd add a second "AirPlay Zone" and set the Audio Output for that zone to your special AirFoil "sound card". More info here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Zones

I think this should cover it...
Cheers,
V.

Cheers!
Patrick

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2013, 12:09:22 pm »

Quote from: VinBob on February 11, 2013, 11:59:37 am

Ah - I guess not as straightforward as we thought! - I have sent an e-mail to Rogue Amoeba and will let you know what they come back with. It doesn't look like they officially support MC specifically, only iTunes at this time...

AirFoil supports pretty much ANY application on Windows that can play sound. The iTunes-specific support provides other fancy benefits, allowing the remote devices to show metadata while playing back (cover art, lyrics, etc).

That won't work, but the rest should.

I'm just not sure how to set up the Zones. Like I said, though... I bet there is a way. Even if not, though, you could easily activate/deactivate AirFoil itself to control whether the remote Airport Express receives the audio.

pcstockton · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:27:55 pm »

It appears that AirFoil on Win7 does not create a virtual sound card. I set up a new zone and the AirFoil is not an option. I tried this both actively connected and not, to the AirPort.

When I select MC18 as the source in AirFoil, it works but takes over the server completely.

Maybe I am missing something?

Thanks,
Patrick

glynor · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2013, 03:31:42 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on February 11, 2013, 03:27:55 pm

It appears that AirFoil on Win7 does not create a virtual sound card. I set up a new zone and the AirFoil is not an option. I tried this both actively connected and not, to the AirPort.

When I select MC18 as the source in AirFoil, it works but takes over the server completely.

Maybe I am missing something?

Nope, from what I read on their site, that's what it looks like.

Do they have a free trial for Windows? I'll just get it and play with it. I can play to my iPad or my AppleTV upstairs (which is silly because JRemote and my HTPC, but you know, for science).

pcstockton · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2013, 05:57:57 pm »

Yes they do. I am using it now. Its limitation is "noise after 10 minutes".

Thanks!
-Patrick

PS- Wait...... can I stream to an Airport with JRemote? Did you just say that? Without 3rd party software? I think I saw the Airport in JRemote Zones in the past but thought it was because i had AirUPNP enabled.
If it works with JRemote it is a moot point for me as well.

glynor · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2013, 06:04:48 pm »

Certainly...

pcstockton · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2013, 06:08:45 pm »

Great!!!! i LOVE JRemote so much.

and great EP. Love me some Aphex.

Thanks Glynor.
Patrick

pcstockton · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2013, 06:09:56 pm »

VinBob,

As you might have already gleaned from above. If you use JRemote as a control point (and you should), you can stream to AirPlay devices.

Cheers!
Patrick

pcstockton · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2013, 06:11:36 pm »

Glynor,

Where is the "This Device" in your Zones??? Did you somehow rename it "iPhone"?

-p

VinBob · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2013, 07:18:04 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on February 11, 2013, 06:09:56 pm

VinBob,

As you might have already gleaned from above. If you use JRemote as a control point (and you should), you can stream to AirPlay devices.

Cheers!
Patrick

Oh great! - Yes, I actually do have that installed on my iPhone - However, are we now reliant on having the iPhone available to stream to the Airport Express? I was looking to do direct from the PC running MC 18 straight to the AE. It certainly gets around the issue and I don't have to install another product on my PC but it seems to me it now becomes dependent on having the iOS device running...

Cheers,
Vin.

pcstockton · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2013, 07:29:06 pm »

Glynor.... sorry. Your screenshot is obviously the AirPlay button I always ignore.

Vinbob,
AirFoil works. You simply wont be able to listen to local (and maybe other) zones.

Try it out.

-p

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2013, 07:38:20 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on February 11, 2013, 07:29:06 pm

Glynor.... sorry. Your screenshot is obviously the AirPlay button I always ignore.

Vinbob,
AirFoil works. You simply wont be able to listen to local (and maybe other) zones.

I'm going to test it out later, but I think there should be a way in AirFoil too.

But, yeah, AirPlay in JRemote works fine. I use it occasionally at work.

VinBob · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2013, 09:47:16 pm »

Quote from: pcstockton on February 11, 2013, 07:29:06 pm

Glynor.... sorry. Your screenshot is obviously the AirPlay button I always ignore.

Vinbob,
AirFoil works. You simply wont be able to listen to local (and maybe other) zones.

Try it out.

-p

Thanks P. Did you mean JRemote or Airfoil above as I thought we had switched to JRemote. Been a little tied up this evening so will look to play tomorrow at this point as I am beat! ?

pcstockton · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2013, 01:20:23 am »

Both work... differently.

JRemote requires using iOS as control point.
AirFoil requires Glynor's help to work as a "Zone", otherwise it does work.

-Patrick

VinBob · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:12:50 am »

OK gents - I just got an e-mail back from Rogue Amoeba (who are indeed excellent to deal with) on this and here is the link to the document which I hope helps:

http://rogueamoeba.com/support/knowledgebase/?showArticle=AirfoilWinWASAPI

My issue with this, is that I need to use Kernel Streaming mode as this is more optimum than WASAPI and is actually recommended by my DAC manufacturer. So while I may switch the output mode to resolve one problem, I then potentially end up affecting stability and performance for the direct USB output to my DAC. I guess it would be nice if one could set profiles to easily switch between one and the other so for example, click onto profile A which uses WASAP to the Airport Exprress and Profile B using Kernal Streaming to the DAC.

I guess I will have to play with it and see if WASAP works/behaves just as well - I also heard WASAP Event is better than WASAPI so I will try that option too which may be a good compromise....

Cheers,
V.

pcstockton · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2013, 10:02:33 am »

I am on Direct Sound on XP and it doesn't work here. I could try my Win7 HTPC but it is not powered up 24/7 and would rather use my server.

-p

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Author Topic: MC 18 and an Airport Express... (Read 5383 times)