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[Anohn]

Hi
I'm trialling Media Center for the first time, and am currently comparing DVD playback vs other DVD s/w I've used on my laptop. One problem I'm trying to solve is how to adjust the fastforward and rewind speeds. I've not needed to adjust it on previous dvd software because there's been a wider range of speeds, but all I'm getting on Media Center is x5, x20 and x50. If I try to fastforward at even the lowest speed (x5) I'm overshooting where I want to be, and then I overshoot when I rewind.
So I need to have a slower speed, in addition to (or instead of) the faster ones. Can anyone advise on whether this is configurable, or if I'll get a wider range of speeds after I purchase?
Apart from that I'm happy with the functionality, so if I can get a solution I'll be happy to purchase.
Thanks for your help

[Anohn]

Bumping.

JRiver have emailed me to ask how the trial is going. I replied to say I can't work out how to FF and rewind at low speed, and they've simply referred me back to here. I'm therefore relying on the goodwill of other users, and would be grateful for any help.

Has anyone been able to fast forward or rewind video at a slower rate than x5 normal speed? If you haven't, how do you manage to get to the right place in a dvd, given that x5 tends to go too fast past the place you want to be?

And is it a common issue, that the vendors/developers won't answer simple functionality questions, and that they can only be asked in this forum? If no-one answers, are you basically stuck?

Having invested time in trialling the s/w I'd love to be able to purchase it, but if I can't find out how the basics of DVD playback work I'm wondering if it's worth the bother of exploring other functionality. The support wiki seems to be written by and aimed at experienced users, so I'm guessing that this s/w isn't for the time-poor user. If the developers/vendors won't answer questions about basic functionality, Media Centre looks like it will be a high-maintenance product. I'm already kicking myself for spending so much time trying to work out this simple issue. If anyone here has a better experience, I'd love to hear about it, before writing off the time spent.
 

[glynor]

Has anyone been able to fast forward or rewind video at a slower rate than x5 normal speed? If you haven't, how do you manage to get to the right place in a dvd, given that x5 tends to go too fast past the place you want to be?

I don't use any of the "ranged playback" speed options, but use the buttons on my remote mapped to 30 seconds skip ahead, 10 seconds back instead, for short-range seeking.

I don't actually use DVD playback much, so I don't know the answer to this much, but for most video playback, the left/right arrow keys also do the same thing.  For DVDs, this might activate the chapter up/down controls instead, but you'd have to check.  In any case, you can easily map buttons to the 30 seconds ahead/back controls, and just use them over and over to do small seeks (or even large ones).

Implementing the "speeded up" playback seeking (like an old VCR) is honestly a trick, anyway.  The way the actual play container "seeks" is via the something closer to the 30 sec ahead type seek.  It "skips" there.  To simulate FF/RW, you have to read ahead and then show only certain frames to make it look like it is playing faster (essentially "skipping ahead/back" over and over again at very short distances).  They just have a "faker" for 5x built in, but that's the minimum.  It makes no difference what they have there to me, as I don't use any of them, and just pound on the skip ahead/back keys to seek.  It is responsive enough that that is almost always more convenient.

And is it a common issue, that the vendors/developers won't answer simple functionality questions, and that they can only be asked in this forum? If no-one answers, are you basically stuck?

Unlike many software forums, they do actively monitor these boards.  They don't always respond to every post immediately, but they are here (the actual engineers, not just PR guys).  Matt, the CIO of the company, regularly answers questions and makes bug fixes for users directly.

However, to answer the "bigger question", yes:  This is support.  This is actually a fairly active and helpful forum, if you try to use it.  Sometimes you might need to bump a thread (like you did here), because the right "person" didn't see it the first round (or maybe you didn't explain yourself very well), but usually you'll get some kind of answer, unless you're off in the weeds doing something no one else does.

Personally, I can't believe the amount of support for edge-cases they do provide, in many cases.

[Anohn]

Thanks.

So I'm guessing that the answer to what I'm asking (can fast forward or rewind work at less than x5 speed) is that no, it can't. Which is curious, because I've been able to do that ever since I started using dvd playback software on a PC, even on the free versions. x2, for example, is pretty much a standard, and most s/w supports even slower speeds while still being able to play audio. 

Media Center was recommended to me by someone who doesn't use it for video playback, and I can see that it has good functionality in other areas. I'm just debating whether it's worth it for me if I'll continue to need separate video s/w.  I've not found any sales blurb that tells me what the strengths are, or why I should buy it, but I'm guessing that its strengths are in audio?
 

[glynor]

Media Center was recommended to me by someone who doesn't use it for video playback, and I can see that it has good functionality in other areas. I'm just debating whether it's worth it for me if I'll continue to need separate video s/w.  I've not found any sales blurb that tells me what the strengths are, or why I should buy it, but I'm guessing that its strengths are in audio?

I use it primarily as a video player and video management system.  I'd say its playback system is second-to-none as a purely video player.

I just don't know that most people care very much about very slow "simulated FF/RW speeds".  Personally, I honestly don't even know what the minimum speed is in MC.  It is entirely possible that it is customizable, or that there is a "lower speed" available.  I don't know, because I'd never use that FF/RW mode.  The seek-style advancing is MUCH more reliable and robust, and it is easier to be precise about where you want to "stop" when you are advancing through a file.  If I ever, in any video player application, see the "simulated FF/RW fake-scrubbing" I immediately go into the options and try to find a way to turn it off, or change the default behavior to Seek-style advancing (skip ahead 30 seconds, or whatever).

I know that nev (the developer of the LAV Filters that MC uses for video playback) recently had a discussion with another user over some of the serious problems imposed by the Microsoft DVD Navigator when you are trying to implement FF and RW, and actually made some improvements to LAV recently in this regard as a result.  So, maybe, try to look for that thread?  If I have time later tonight I'll dig it up and post a link.

But... You might want to try using the seek commands instead (skip ahead/skip back).  They're much more accurate and convenient.  MC responds well enough that you can easily seek across an entire hour long show in a few seconds with a remote.  For me, once I'd tried that for a while, I quickly decided I never, ever wanted to go back to the "old VCR style" advancing system.

Of course, if it had true "scrubbing support" (like my NLE video editing applications do), then I'd use it.  But it doesn't, and can't, because of the type of compression used on most delivery formats of video (including DVD).  For that, you'd need much, much bigger source files, like my NLE uses.

With DVDs, it is even easier, as they have chapters, so you can "get close" with the chapters, and then just seek forward/back to the appropriate moment.

Plus, MC has ranged playback support.  So, I'm not sure why you're trying to seek around all the time but...

MC will automatically resume playback of any video file (including DVD) from where you left off.  So, if you're just trying to "get back to where you were" this isn't an issue.
If you are trying to play specific segments of a video file, and queue them up ahead of time, look into MC's Particles system.  This allows you to "break up" individual pieces of a bigger movie into smaller component parts, which are each treated as their own entry in MC's database, and can be accessed directly (and played immediately) by simply picking them from the file listing.

[glynor]

Here's the thread:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77141.0

[Jong]

Yes, I agree it's still a bit hard to use. When it first started working I was just delighted it did anything, but I agree the speeds are limiting and the overshoots hard to deal with.  As you can see though, until recently FFW/REW did not work at all with Red October HQ. It's because although DVD has been around forever, we have only just been able to use ROHQ, with its major quality benefits, with DVD. Hopefully Matt might take a look and see if it can be improved.

You should know though that for all other media FFW/REW works fine and for most vocal users at least DVD is a bit old-fashioned! Glynor is right you might find changing to something like +1min/-30secs skipping instead of FFW/REW is OK once you get used to it. I used to use that with mpc-hc. But when FFW/REW works well for other media it is a shame to have to use skipping just so DVDs are navigable.

[raym]

I still like to use FF/REW sometimes when I'm trying to scan for
a specific scene - the video cues/updates it provides make it easier.

I think 5x is the slowest speed though and I have, on occasion, wished i could do slow-mo.

Jim showed his support for this a while back and actually suggested to bump the topic if it didn't happen in the near future. I'd need to do a search and try to find that thread though......

[mojave]

I have never used FF/RW in JRiver and always use the jump forward/back. Like Glynor, I find it much quicker and easier.

[Anohn]

Thanks everyone. 

Glynor, I appreciate your thoughtful answer, but we clearly have different needs. I'm a long-term watcher of dvds on my laptop, and the suggested skip ahead/back doesn't cut it for me. I'd already adjusted the intervals for those, and it still makes for a very annoying experience after having used much better software.

It does seem that there's agreement that Media Center doesn't offer this basic video playback functionality. I spent last night using my old s/w, which works perfectly. It was great to be able to watch in 1.2 speed, with full audio, when I started running out of time to finish watching a dvd at normal speed. I was able to fast forward through action scenes that bored me, and not miss any of the dialogue when I stopped at exactly the right time. I have x1.1, 1.2, 1.5, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 to choose from, and I use all of them on occasion. It would be like going back to the stone age to have to use interval or chapter skipping. 

One of the reasons for continuing with my trial of Media Center, and making the effort to ask for help here, was that the sound quality is better than that of any of the other dvd s/w I've used on laptops (I just couldn't believe that it didn't have basic playback functionality, and I thought I must have missed something). I'm impressed with the ability to organise all my media in such an easily accessible way, and to be able to rip my dvds and cds. I imagine for most users (including my friend who recommended it), this justifies the licence cost. I'll definitely be keeping an eye open to see if the video playback functionality improves, and then hopefully I'll be able to trial it again in the future.

Thanks for all your help. It's nice to know there's such a friendly community here    

[MrHaugen]

I think you would get much further asking for a specific feature request, instead of mentioning how useless you think the software is :-) I know you might not mean it that way, but some can perceive it as a small provocation? And I would suggest to wait until the Mac version are released. Now, there's not much additions going on. More multi platform support testing and fixing.

If I were you, I'd try to bring the subject back up in a couple of months. Perhaps explain how much better a video viewing experience would be with a more granular fast forward system.

Just to be clear, I'm not against this my self. I could see the usage scenarios, even though I never use anything but skip today.

[Jong]

I don't think he was being provocative at all. I think he has been clear about the feature he needs and it is fair enough for him to say that the lack of it is significant enough to stop him buying.

With all the commercial players, which support FFW/REW, now including Cinavia detection and with the new Mac version, there will be more people trying out MC who have similar expectations for DVD playback, even though I don't think that is what pushed Anohn in our direction.

[MrHaugen]

I'm far away from saying that it was very provocative. From my experience however, you get further by selling to the developers why the software need something, instead of mentioning how useless it is. Even though it's from a personal opinion only. But it's not always so easy...

[Anohn]

Nobody is saying it's useless. It just lacks the functionality I need.

However, I'm find that when support is provided by people who belittle those that don't agree with them, I start questioning who those people are, and what their affiliation is to the software company. I have now had a  senior user try to tell me that my needs are rather ridiculous, and another tell me that by giving my honest (and polite) opinion that I have behaved badly. There's a level of defensiveness here that I find worrying and abhorrent. I guess this is what happens when the software provider doesn't provide open and professional support. Although I have to say that the email response I received from JRiver wasn't a particularly helpful or adult one.

So the way that "support" is delivered here makes it now unlikely that I'll come back and trial the software again, as I had originally planned. Lack of functionality is one thing, but "support" provided by gurus that are unhappy if someone disagrees with their worldview is another.

I don't owe anyone my time and effort to ask for additional functionality, when I can find it quite easily elsewhere in other products. I've already spent enough time trying to find out how Media Center works, and have put up with quite a bit of "attitude" doing so. Personally I don't think I should have needed to work so hard to find help in the first place, but I'm happy to accept that our worldviews may differ on that too.

[JimH]

I guess this is what happens when the software provider doesn't provide open and professional support. Although I have to say that the email response I received from JRiver wasn't a particularly helpful or adult one.

Virtually all of JRiver's support is done on this forum.  In spite of your experience, this usually works well.

I'm not sure what you expect of an "adult", so here is our correspondence.  My responses are in italic.

------- begin e-mail ------
Our support is on the forum.  I'm sorry if you don't like it.  Both users and JRiver staff answer questions there.

As you might imagine, we get an extremely wide variety of questions.  Sometimes our users know the program better than we do.

But if you're not comfortable with the help on the forum, you may not want to purchase.

----
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:03 AM, A> wrote:
Thank you. I’ve had no replies on the forum (as stated below), and the right and left arrows simply mimic the main controls. The slowest FF and rewind speed appear to be x5, which is a lot faster than the other DVD player s/w I’ve used, and which makes watching DVDs quite irritating. It’s hard to believe that this is how it’s supposed to work, which is why I’m asking a question about it.
 
It seems strange that I have to rely on the goodwill of other users to answer a simple functionality question. If I get no answer from other users on how to use your software, then I gather that basically I’m stuck, even if there is a way to do what I want?
 
I’m afraid I can’t see the point of paying for software if the developers/vendors can’t provide support for it, and simply tell me to ask other users.
 
 
 
From: Jim Hillegass
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:52 PM
To: A
Subject: Re: Fw: Is JRiver Media Center working for you?
 
The best place to discuss this is the forum.  We often make changes IF it's requested by more than one person.
 
But you may be able to use the right and left arrow keys to get something like what you want.  If you're using a keyboard, it's the arrow keys that are on the numeric keypad.  Or on a remote, you can use the two keys on either side of the OK button.

---------
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:24 AM, A> wrote:
As my trial ends soon, I'm wondering if someone can let me know whether there is an answer to my fast-forward question?
If it's not currently possible to fast forward or rewind at speeds less than x5, will this change in the future?

Kind regards
A

-----Original Message----- From: A
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:05 PM
To: [mediacenter]
Subject: Re: Is JRiver Media Center working for you?

Hi

I'm trialling Media Center on the recommendation of a friend, who uses more
of the functionality than I do (at the moment). I'm sure I'll explore it
more thoroughly over time if I buy it.

In terms of what I am using it for, I've found it very good at burning dvds
and at organising my media. But I have a problem with watching dvds/video. I
can't  find a way to fast-forward or rewind at a slower speed than x5. I've
posted on the forum to ask if there's a lower speed and had no replies.

If I can't fast-forward or rewind at a slower speed then it's going to be
too annoying to use for video playback, and I'll have to decide whether I
need media center for anything else at this moment in time.

I hope this feedback helps.

Kind regards

A

[Jong]

It's a shame it had to end this way. As I said, with people who are happy to pay for quality commercial software pushed to find alternatives to TMT and PowerDVD, both of which support FFW/REW with more granular speeds, I think this one will come around again until it is solved. Just my 'world view'