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[Matt]

Overview
I had a chance to do a comparison of the following DACs:

• Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty (PCIe)
• Steinberg MR816x (external firewire)
• Aurora 8 LT-USB (external USB)

I included the Creative because it's my standby: reliable, does well in the tests below, and is affordable.  The other two are from companies with great reputations and are recommended in this thread.

The three represent completely different price points.  You decide whether that makes the comparison interesting or silly.  Also, I'm just a guy in his home theater (read man cave) trying his best to provide some useful information.  I'm not a professional reviewer and the notes are from me personally, not JRiver.

My focus is on high-quality multi-channel analog output direct into a power amplifier.  In this model, a computer running Media Center does all the sound processing, the DAC converts the digital signal to analog and the result goes straight into a power amplifier.


Volume
All else being equal, a louder DAC is better.  It's nice to have volume headroom, even if it's only to future-proof yourself.  I am especially sensitive to this because I use the same amplifier for my subwoofer and mains, which means mains are around -20dB; in other words I need +20dB compared to a more typical installation.

1st place: Steinberg, Lynx
2nd place: Creative (about 10dB quieter than the other two as measured by a decibel meter)

The main difference here is that Steinberg and Lynx target +4dBu (optional with the Lynx) and Creative targets -10dBu.


Line noise
When connecting a DAC to a power amplifier, it's important that the DAC is as quiet as possible (hiss, hum, etc.).  Anything extra coming out of the DAC gets amplified and heard.

1st place: Lynx
2nd place: Creative
3rd place: Steinberg

The Lynx takes the cake here.  It's louder AND has less line noise than the Creative in -10dBu mode.  In +4dBu mode it's about the same as the Creative (1dB more line noise) but capable of much higher output volume.  The Steinberg is the worst by about 8dB, and approaches too much noise to be acceptable (the amount of noise in the Steinberg remains unchanged even with the firewire cable unplugged, so it's not a computer noise issue).


Power on/off noise
Some DACs make bad noises when they turn on and off.  This can be downright scary when you use a power amplifier.

1st place: Creative
2nd place: Steinberg
3rd place: Lynx

Creative has this figured out.  If you power off, on, reboot, or whatever nothing bad comes out the speakers.  The Steinberg makes a loud pop when you power it on and quiet one when you power it off.  The Lynx makes a really loud pop when you power on and a loud pop when you power it off.


Power consumption
I don't have a way to measure the power consumption of the internal Creative card, so I'll just post the test results for the other two:

Steinberg: 2W (off) / 22W (playing)
Lynx: 6W (off) / 24W (playing)


Driver
This gets a little more subjective than the other tests, but I'm a software guy so it's probably the only thing I'm actually qualified to talk about

1st place: Lynx
2nd place: Steinberg
3rd place: Creative

Lynx gets it right.  Clean, simple, and does the job.  Thank you.

Steinberg isn't far behind, but it offers a lot more settings and spreads them around a bit.

Creative drivers are reliable once configured but completely baffling to setup properly, at least for me.  As an example, by default ASIO routing sends some channels to speakers nobody has (like 'rear top') and then since you don't have that speaker mixes the output back to several other speakers.  It also doesn't default to bit-matched, makes you dig to get the software to even enable bit-matched, etc.


Reliability / Signal breakups
This is also a little subjective, and probably varies depending on your computer.  I'll just report my results.

1st place (tie): Creative / Lynx
2nd place: Steinberg

The Creative card is completely reliable, which is one of the nice things about an internal card.  The only issue is that a power loss has caused the driver to lose all its settings on multiple occasions (resulting in tech support calls to me from my family members).

I haven't used the Lynx as long as the other two, but I've yet to have a signal drop even at 192kHz / 8 channel.

I had troubles getting the firewire Steinberg to not drop when scrolling in webpages, ripping multiple discs at once, etc.  This is a pretty fast machine (JRMark 4820), and I tried three firewire interfaces, adjusting firewire buffer sizes, and hardware buffer sizes.  It was fine during watching a movie, TV, or listening -- only multi-tasking stressed it out.


Features
I'll just mention a few features of note for each DAC.

Lynx

• Can hardware switch between +4dBu and 10dBu (if you don't need the volume, you'll get a little less line noise in the lower setting)
• Available in 8 or 16 channel models
• DAC natively supports up to 192kHz

Steinberg

• Has phantom power microphone input right on the front which is great for doing measurements for convolution

Creative

• Leaves you with money for your kids' braces

.

Summary
The Lynx wins this one.  It's the best at all the things that really matter -- reliable, loud, clean.  It's expensive, but it earns it.

The Creative is easy to recommend because it's affordable and still pretty darn good.

The Steinberg is a mixed bag.  For me the line noise is too high, and the firewire a little too touchy.  However, the higher levels and more straight-forward drivers are better than the Creative.


Full test notes can be downloaded here (they're boring, but I'm offering them for completeness).

[Matt]

[reserved]

[nwboater]

This is a great review Matt, but is missing that very (unfortunately) subjective comparison of sound quality besides the pops and noise levels already mentioned. Would be helpful if you could give us some of your thoughts in that area.

Thanks,
Rod

[Matt]

but is missing that very (unfortunately) subjective comparison of sound quality

For me, once a DAC reaches a certain level of goodness, discussing the sound quality is a little like discussing the best flavor of ice cream.  They're all good!  And the three DACs in this test are in that category.

Plenty of DACs do not reach that threshold.  Something bad will jump out at the first critical listen.

I understand that reviewing sound is a little like reviewing wine or cars, and that feelings matter.  But I'm too much an engineer to do much of that myself

[nwboater]

Thanks Matt. I think it will be helpful to some to know that for you the SQ of the Creative is right up there in the "Goodness" level.

I don't have any experience with Creative cards, but would expect that our Asus Essence ST would be of similar SQ. If so my conclusion is that it would be tough to justify the large additional expense to upgrade.

Cheers,
Rod

PS - I never met an ice cream I didn't like either!

[MrC]

Approximate prices please...

[Matt]

Approximate prices please...

The street prices I found today look like this:

Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty (PCIe): $130 (discontinued so you'll have to dig around a little; Creative's newer premium cards are not 8 channel)
Steinberg MR816x (external firewire): $699
Aurora 8 LT-USB (external USB): $2,195

[mwillems]

This was a very helpful review.  I was looking at that Steinberg model (with an eye towards possibly upgrading to one), but I wasn't sure I would like it better than my current setup (a PCI-E card, albeit not a creative model). This made me realize the Steinberg is probably not for me.  Guess I'd better start saving for the Lynx :-)

[mojave]

This was a very helpful review.  I was looking at that Steinberg model (with an eye towards possibly upgrading to one), but I wasn't sure I would like it better than my current setup (a PCI-E card, albeit not a creative model). This made me realize the Steinberg is probably not for me.  Guess I'd better start saving for the Lynx :-)

I own the Steinberg MR816x that Matt tested. I also have the Steinberg UR824 which is 8 channel and asynchronous USB. The UR824 is much quieter. It allows you to route through the internal mixer using channels 1-8 and skip the mixer by using channels 11-18. I use a channel offset in the Ouput Mode Settings in JRiver. The MR816x always goes through the mixer. Like the MR816x, the UR824 has phantom power available on all inputs so no preamp is necessary for measurements - just connect the mic. The UR824 supports up to 96kHz (edit: up to 192 kHz with firmware upgrade) while the Aurora supports up to 192 kHz. I have an Asus Essence ST that supports 192 Khz, but I can't tell any benefit. The UR824 is $799.99 from MusiciansFriend.com, but they usually have discounts available.

[dean70]

I own the Steinberg MR816x that Matt tested. I also have the Steinberg UR824 which is 8 channel and asynchronous USB. The UR824 is much quieter. It allows you to route through the internal mixer using channels 1-8 and skip the mixer by using channels 11-18. I use a channel offset in the Ouput Mode Settings in JRiver. The MR816x always goes through the mixer. Like the MR816x, the UR824 has phantom power available on all inputs so no preamp is necessary for measurements - just connect the mic. The UR824 supports up to 96kHz while the Aurora supports up to 192 kHz. I have an Asus Essence ST that supports 192 Khz, but I can't tell any benefit. The UR824 is $799.99 from MusiciansFriend.com, but they usually have discounts available.

How would you rate the audio quality of the Essense vs the Steinberg UR824?

[mykillk]

$2200 for a DAC???  

Why ever would you want to spend that much for just a DAC when you could get a fairly high end processor+amp setup for a comparable sum!

[mwillems]

How would you rate the audio quality of the Essense vs the Steinberg UR824?

I'm also curious how the essence compares to the Steinberg in sound quality.  Obviously they have very different functionality, but are the higher end Asus cards comparable in the SQ department?

[mojave]

Here is what I said in my Steinberg MR816x review:

I have now spent a week with the MR816. I really, really like it. I took it home and compared it to my Essence ST/H6. I only used it in 2.1 since I didn't have more cables. I did try it with both a balanced and an unbalanced amp. First, the MR816 has  more low level detail. This was evidenced by light/quiet guitar string plucks, percussion brushes, the vocalist's breath right before singing, faint cymbals, and other noises coming through that were normally masked. At higher volumes, the sounds might come through with the Essence, but they still were muted or dull. Second, the MR816 had a more natural attack and decay of instruments. The attack seemed more dynamic and the decay was longer. You could really hear the shimmering of cymbals. Third, the instruments were more defined in the soundstage. A lot of music is recorded in studios, but it is still mastered to make it sound like you are at a live event through the use of panning and probably a little magic. With the Essence, a piano sounds like it is coming from the right half of the room. With the MR816 the piano sounds like it is in a defined 3-4 ft space in the right half of the room. I guess this is actually described as better imaging. These three improvements added up to greater clarity. It was mesmerizing to listen to my "reference" set of songs and hear the the music so vibrant and real.

Regarding noise from the Steinberg MR816x, I said the following:

Initially when I hooked up the MR816 I had a lot of noise in the speakers. I discovered that I needed to use the drivers to mute the inputs. This greatly reduced the noise. However, on two sets of speakers with three different amps there is still a slight his when the ear is put all the way up to the tweeter. An inch away and you can't hear it.

I have since used the MR816x with JTR Noesis speakers that have a sensitivity of 101 dB. I was able to hear the hiss from several feet away.

The Steinberg UR824 sounds almost the same as the MR816x, but with less noise.

[mwillems]

Initially when I hooked up the MR816 I had a lot of noise in the speakers. I discovered that I needed to use the drivers to mute the inputs. This greatly reduced the noise. However, on two sets of speakers with three different amps there is still a slight his when the ear is put all the way up to the tweeter. An inch away and you can't hear it.

I have since used the MR816x with JTR Noesis speakers that have a sensitivity of 101 dB. I was able to hear the hiss from several feet away.

The Steinberg UR824 sounds almost the same as the MR816x, but with less noise.

That level of hiss is, unfortunately a deal-breaker for me.  My HF driver has between a 112 and 118dB sensitivity (depending on the horn) and I've had an extremely hard time finding components (both DACs and amplifiers) that don't produce a loud, audible hiss or hum on them.  They're a really great way to test whether a manufacturer is exaggerating their SNR or not :-(

If it's audible from several feet away at 101 dB of sensitivity, it's going to be aggravatingly loud in my set up.  My current Asus card (the DX) produces no audible hiss or hum, even with my ear in the horn, but the sound quality is not quite as good as I'd like it to be. I demoed several other sub five-hundred dollar DACs, and there was one other DAC I found that sounded better with no hum, but that was the Fiio E17 which doesn't have enough channels for my setup (and the build quality is a little questionable). 

So I may look into upgrading to the Asus ST/H6 combo (on the rationale that it should be at least as low noise as the DX), or the Lynx if I manage to save my pennies :-)

[Matt]

Asus H6 discussion split here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77583.0

[hulkss]

I posted a link to a comparison of DAC units here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76525.msg518336#msg518336

[hulkss]

$2200 for a DAC???  

Why ever would you want to spend that much for just a DAC when you could get a fairly high end processor+amp setup for a comparable sum!

Normally, I would completely agree with you, but I needed 16 channels for my system with digital XO. The Aurora 16 actually does perform better in a measureable and audible way. It's also important to have a very good AD conversion for the use of a measurement microphone if you are using digital audio correction filters.

[pcstockton]

$2200 for a DAC???  

Why ever would you want to spend that much for just a DAC when you could get a fairly high end processor+amp setup for a comparable sum!

Give a Naim DAC a listen and then ask that question.  I spent $3500 on a DAC and a 2 channel DAC at that.  I will put a $5k power supply on it without blinking an eye at some point.  There is NOTHING like it.

-patrick

[Samson]

Give a Naim DAC a listen and then ask that question.  I spent $3500 on a DAC and a 2 channel DAC at that.  I will put a $5k power supply on it without blinking an eye at some point.  There is NOTHING like it.
-patrick

Coming in late in this thread and not wanting to create ill will knowing I am outnumbered by engineers.For me the ONLY thing that matters is how it sounds.The first time I heard truly high end sound I nearly wet my pants, fortunately I didnt, but I was reduced to tears.I had a friend who was a billionaire with a sound sytem well over $200,000 (in early 1990).Yes I know this is subjective, arguably obscene price,law of diminishing returns applies and all that.... but the sound, wow,wow,wow. If you couldnt tell the difference between this and say a $10,000 system of which I have heard many then there would be no point in spending more than $20 and just buy a hand held radio.Please dont crucify me but approaching anything like that sound became an addiction and no I am not suggesting anyone spend that sort of money (I would if I had it, sadly I dont).