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[artto]

I have a HP Pavillion g6-2235us laptop/Windows 8, JRiver 17, going to a NAD C390DD digital integrated amplifier. I want to use the HDMI ports on the laptop and NAD to play hi-res FLAC files at up to 192/24.

So far I haven't been able to get the two to communicate. All the drivers and software for both the laptop and NAD have been installed and are up to date. I've read through most if not all of the posts that Search brought up. I've made numerous changes in Control Panel and JRiver but nothing seems to work.

[JimH]

Welcome to the forum.  Can you get any sound from Control Panel/Sounds? 

That needs to work or no application will work.

[artto]

I haven't tried any of the other outputs such as the mini stereo pin/plug for analog or USB as these are of no interest or use to me for the resolution of the audio files I want to play. Sound comes out of the laptop's speakers. I've disabled that because I don't want that playing in the background.

[artto]

I might also add that I've tried all the obvious things, like different HDMI ports on the amplifier and different cables. Windows Device Manager also sees the NAD C390. So there is obviously some kind of communication. But when I play a FLAC file on JRiver Media Center (17) the signal is not getting to the amplifier. The file is playing because I can see the little spectrum analyzer in J.RIver showing a signal is present and I've had it playing through the laptop's speakers.

[artto]

Welcome to the forum.  Can you get any sound from Control Panel/Sounds? 

That needs to work or no application will work.

Yes, I can get the usual "Windows sounds" and JRiver to play through the laptop speakers (which ultimately I want to turn off while playing music through the main audio system)

[artto]

A whole day and 56 views with only one worthless reply, from a Forum Administrator no less.

You see, this is what you get when a manufacturer doesn't want to hear from their customers directly and attempts to use a Forum as a means of technical support in the hopes that everyone can learn from everyone else. The problem is you end up with the blind leading the blind.

I've had JRiver for 10 months now and basically found it to be useless. I might as well continue purchasing SACDs because it works ~ plug & play. None of this configuration nonsense.

[JimH]

Sorry you're unhappy with the service, but insulting people isn't likely to help. 

It's hard to guess what may be happening from your description.

Normally, you would go to the options for audio and select your device, and it would play.  You're getting sounds from your PC speakers because it's the default device.

Did you try the wiki topics on audio?

[astromo]

From the sideline, it doesn't appear that you've done enough troubleshooting yourself.

From this info:
http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier
The NAD C-390DD comes with USB ports out of the box that give the following performance:
USB Type A - 24 bit/48 kHz
USB Type B - 24 bit/96 kHz

Note that you need to load relevant USB driver software to your PC to get these ports to function (available from the download section in the noted link).

How about you see if the USB digital out works?

With this style of amp, HDMI is enabled via a plug in module. How do you know that the module itself or the amp isn't faulty?


Before you start blaming the software, you need to show that the other relevant possibilities are not an issue. In fact, from what you've described it would appear that MC is producing digital sound within the operating system. This tells me that the MC software is probably not the issue and it's quite possible that you've got a hardware problem somewhere in the mix, if configuration of the Sounds function within Control Panel doesn't help. It might be ports on your PC or ports associated with your amp.

Can you try loading MC to a completely independent PC and isolate the problem that way?

I sympathise with your frustration but I don't think you're seeing the true value of the forum. If you engage positively, seek out your issue by searching and persist, you will get a return on your investment. I've had a generally positive success rate when I've had a problem, so I'm satisfied that the forum can function and does help.

And to be a little blunt, this tech support delivery model is the way many outfits work these days. Many big name tech brands use this methodology (I can think of Toshiba, Sony and Asus from recent experience off the top of my head). Even Microsoft's so called help function (good ol' F1) in its Office software will often kick you out into the forum space on the internet and the days of a paper manual are long gone. One reason for this trend is commercial reality. Forums have organically developed as a way of reducing tech support overheads. Given their proliferation, I'd say they work for the developers and that then flows on to users in terms of reduced costs.

So, unfortunately if your tech support expectations are stuck in the past, I can't see that your frustrations will ease in the near future. My apologies for bringing this up here but you're not the only person on the forum who has pointed out the shortcomings of the tech support model employed by JRiver. I'm purely a user and I think it helps the development staff sometimes to have other voices come along to gently but directly explain the way things are.

Just my opinion and we may agree to disagree.

Hope you resolve your issue soon..  

[InflatableMouse]

Its not that people don't want or can't help you, its just that there are many new posts every day and yours got buried under other new posts. I guess people just missed it.

Anyway, you seemed to have misunderstood JimH's response. You need to get sound from Windows first before continuing with JRiver. This isn't about the other outputs on the PC, its about the connection you are currently using. From the Windows control panel you need to set it as the default device and make sure you hear sounds from Windows. That needs to work. If it doesn't we need to fix that first.

Once you get that done you can continue configuring JRiver. Many people here can help you, and will, but you need a little patience and understanding. I understand your frustration but like JimH said, insults won't get you very far.

[artto]

Sorry you're unhappy with the service, but insulting people isn't likely to help. 

It's hard to guess what may be happening from your description.

Normally, you would go to the options for audio and select your device, and it would play.  You're getting sounds from your PC speakers because it's the default device.

Did you try the wiki topics on audio?

I've already done what you've suggested. I am not computer illiterate. My experience with personal computers goes back to the Apple II days when you still had to program many things yourself.

Yes, I've gone through wiki topics and haven't found anything relevant that works.

[artto]

From the sideline, it doesn't appear that you've done enough troubleshooting yourself.

From this info:
http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier
The NAD C-390DD comes with USB ports out of the box that give the following performance:
USB Type A - 24 bit/48 kHz
USB Type B - 24 bit/96 kHz
...

Well you are quite wrong. I've done plenty of troubleshooting on this. More than an hour on the phone with HP tech support as well as email. Numerous calls and email with NAD as well as countless hours experimenting with every conceivable combination and every "trick" I know of. Sony and Microsoft tech support S***.

Yes, I finally got everything to work ~ with USB. But USB is limited to 96Khz, even USB 3.0

But USB is not the point. I want to use HDMI because it will pass the much higher sample rate audio to the NAD  C390DD.

I know that the NAD's HDMI inputs work because I use them with my SACD player and NAD display shows the corresponding sample rate of the recording in the SACD player.

Yes, I have MC on another PC which was occasionally used in my audio system but  it doesn't have HDMI and the sound card (Card Deluxe) is also a max of 96Khz, just like USB.

I'm sure that by now everyone is wondering why I'm so hell bent on the HDMI thing. That's a long story and I'll be glad to post it or send it to you if anyone cares to see the lengthy explanation which I'm sure will open some additional arguments. Basically it boils down to a clock rate timing issue (jitter) between the source and the receiver as well as error correction as required from a spinning HD or other media all of which can contribute degrading audio quality, which for the most part can be eliminated by using a PC to play the audio file from RAM.

Yes, I'm one of those nuts with a megabuck audio system and dedicated acoustically tuned listening room but I'm not so crazy as to think I can "tune" my system with various cables and pathetic overpriced snake oil accessories.

Up until recently I've been from the audio "old school" with amplification like the unfortunately expensive valve or solid state amps from the likes of McIntosh, Luxman or Audio Research. The relatively inexpensive NAD C390DD was a revelation. It is truly a "digital" amplifier, not a switching amplifier that pretends to be digital. It replaces the preamp, power amp, processors, crossovers, and DAC all into one unit with the audio signal, processing, volume control, tone control and amplification remaining completely in the digital domain until it hits the speakers. Its resolving power is amazing.

I'm trying to utilize everything this new technology has to offer, especially since the cost is relatively inexpensive compared to where I was going.

[astromo]

Well you are quite wrong. I've done plenty of troubleshooting on this. More than an hour on the phone with HP tech support as well as email. Numerous calls and email with NAD as well as countless hours experimenting with every conceivable combination and every "trick" I know of. Sony and Microsoft tech support S***.

Yes, I finally got everything to work ~ with USB. But USB is limited to 96Khz, even USB 3.0

Hey, well done. I think that it's a big step forward to show that you can get digital audio to work from MC and deliver sound via the NAD. This one sounds like a job for Matt who heads up the MC development team. He often tips in with advice on the forum around audio tech.

On a side note, I don't mind being set straight because I think it's been useful for you because you've provided some very useful additional troubleshooting info.

It's not been mentioned in the thread but what do you get when you work through the various Output Modes that's written up in the wiki?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Audio_Output_Modes
In MC17 you need to navigate to  Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Output  to adjust the relevant modes.

Up until recently I've been from the audio "old school" with amplification like the unfortunately expensive valve or solid state amps from the likes of McIntosh, Luxman or Audio Research. The relatively inexpensive NAD C390DD was a revelation. It is truly a "digital" amplifier, not a switching amplifier that pretends to be digital. It replaces the preamp, power amp, processors, crossovers, and DAC all into one unit with the audio signal, processing, volume control, tone control and amplification remaining completely in the digital domain until it hits the speakers. Its resolving power is amazing.

I'm trying to utilize everything this new technology has to offer, especially since the cost is relatively inexpensive compared to where I was going.

Well, I came into audio from the other end, i.e. budget performance. I bought a 3240PE when I finished Uni that lasted for donkey's and it worked like a trojan. When it gave up the ghost I went for a C 375BEE and it works really well for me. I use the Toslink S/PDIF digital out from my HTPC via the NAD MDC DAC module and into the amp. If I could have waited, I probably would have gone for the C 390DD and am toying with the idea anyway from a pure self indulgence perspective. As a result, I'm very interested to find out the back story here and the root cause with your issues. So, I do hope you continue to soldier on.

One other thought I've got is that HDMI to Optical digital adapters are out there on the market for minimal cost. I know it's another step in the transmission process (I'll leave it to you to tell me the loss details of why that plan sux) that I'd personally want to avoid but it could be another way of dealing with your problem and maintain the resolution you desire.

Good luck ..  

[InflatableMouse]

One other thought I've got is that HDMI to Optical digital adapters are out there on the market for minimal cost. I know it's another step in the transmission process (I'll leave it to you to tell me the loss details of why that plan sux) that I'd personally want to avoid but it could be another way of dealing with your problem and maintain the resolution you desire.

Good luck .. 

Optical does not support multichannel hi resolution sound, only stereo. It supports multichannel in compressed formats like AC3 or DTS.

[astromo]

Optical does not support multichannel hi resolution sound, only stereo. It supports multichannel in compressed formats like AC3 or DTS.

Fair point but my intention was to offer up an option to think about. artto is a self proclaimed audiophile and often people whose first priority is music are less worried about multi-channel sound.

Also, it would appear that the NAD HDMI module only works in stereo anyway:
nadelectronics.com/download.php?120810144621-NAD_C_390DD_MDC-Modules.pdf|DataSheet%20-%20C%20390DD%20MDC%20Modules

so, multi channel should not be an issue.

[BryanC]

Have you tried knocking down the default sample rate to 48000 in Windows sound control and in MC DSP studio to test if the high sample rate is the culprit using Windows sound control?

Have you configured the correct number of channels in Windows sound control to match your hardware (even if you are only using 2)?

Have you installed the latest chipset and APU drivers?

Have you applied the latest software update for your NAD?: http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier#heading-downloads

Have you lowered the hardware buffer size in MC? Have you tried presenting 24-bit data in a 32-bit package to your device?

[artto]

Have you tried knocking down the default sample rate to 48000 in Windows sound control and in MC DSP studio to test if the high sample rate is the culprit using Windows sound control?

Have you configured the correct number of channels in Windows sound control to match your hardware (even if you are only using 2)?

Have you installed the latest chipset and APU drivers?

Have you applied the latest software update for your NAD?: http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier#heading-downloads

Have you lowered the hardware buffer size in MC? Have you tried presenting 24-bit data in a 32-bit package to your device?

1. yes and No. I've tried different sample rate in MC. But it won't matter, see below. And I've already been able use up to 176.4Khz through the NAD's HDMI with my Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player.

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. I've changed it up and down. No, I don't know how to do that (yet)

[artto]

I thoroughly and repeated went through this HP document today:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en& docname=c03257712

I updated the BIOS.

I finally found a driver update for the AMD High Definition Audio Device.

Nothing has made the HDMI port communicate with the NAD C390 other than the laptop's display turning off, then on and some test sounds coming from the laptop speakers when the NAD is turned on. And after about 20 minutes of inactivity the NAD turns off if connected to the laptop HDMI port.

Settings:

Right click in the lower left corner (Windows 8 )
All Control Panel Items -->Troubleshooting - Hardware and Sound, in the Sound window, Playback Tab, two devices are listed under "Select A Playback Device Below to Modify Its Settings:

The first one is:
1-AD(some kind of vertical rectangle symbol)987/210
AMD High Definition Audio Device
Ready

Selecting this and clicking on Properties, in the Properties Window, General Tab, under Jack Information, it says:
HDMI Digital Jack
Device Usage: Use This Device (Enabled)

Clicking the Properties Button, in the Properties Window under Device Status it says:
This Device is working Properly

Under the Supported Formats Tab it says:
Max Number of Channels: 2
HDCP: Supported
Bit Depths: 16 Bit   20 Bit    24Bit

Sample Rates:
32.0KHz         48.0Khz        96.0Khz      192.0Khz
44.1Khz          88.2Khz        176.4Khz

Encoded Formats:
No Compressed Formats Found

That's it. Still no HDMI throughput. by going through the Properties --> Configure, Speaker Test procedure with either of the two listed devices selected as default. Sound only comes out of the laptop speakers or the USB port connected to the NAD Computer designated USB.

[BryanC]

Max Number of Channels: 2

I don't know how it is done in Windows 8, but in Windows 7 you need to click "configure" and set the output to match your hardware. Sometimes the HDMI driver can disable certain sample rates and bit depths depending on the Windows setting.

[artto]

In Windows 8 on my laptop there's nothing in the window you've shown that allows me to match output to the device, nor is there any in the configuration window.

There are two devices listed, "AMD High Definition Audio Device" and "Speakers and Headphones". All I can do is select "TEST" or click on the individual graphics of the speakers shown. When AMD HDAD is selected there is no sound from either the laptop speakers nor the NAD amplifier. If Speakers and Headphones is selected there is sound through the laptop speakers. It doesn't matter which one is set as the default device during this process. There is output to the NAD amplifier only when Speakers and Headphones is selected as the default device and the USB 2.0 port is used.

[InflatableMouse]

In the attached image, you can see the device "Speakers". This is my default device. In your case, this should be called something with HDMI. Do you have that meter next to it like mine? The green bars .... When I right click (see context menu) I can choose Test. When you have that meter, and choose test .. does it light up?

If it doesn't have the VU meter next to it, there is another way to visualize and that's in Volume Mixer. You need to make the HDMI device default and open click the speaker icon in the notification. When you maximize volume and click the volume slider, a small green line appears, see volume screenshot.

Even if you don't hear anything, these meters should show Windows is at least producing sound over the HDMI connection. If that is so, the problem lies with your NAD receiver/DAC and not with Windows.

If Windows gives an error message or is not even playing anything, the problem is probably with Windows.

[artto]

Thanks. No Volume meters so I had go in via the mixer. Still no luck.

As a last resort, even though it's of no use to me I decided to hook up the laptop to several of my HDTV. In 3 of 4 I was able to see the manufacture name and model number in Wndows Device Manager Sound window, set them as the default device, configure them, and get the TEST sounds to play through them. The HDTV that I couldn't do this was made in 2009, nearly 6 years ago.

So I guess it's in NAD's court now and I've informed them of the results.

[InflatableMouse]

Thanks. No Volume meters so I had go in via the mixer. Still no luck.

What does "no luck" mean exactly?

We weren't after hearing sound, we were after discovering whether Windows generates sound when hooked up to the NAD. Did you see a little green bar appear when you click the slider?

Either way its great to hear that when hooked up to the TV you can at least get something to play. I would still try to see if you can spot the green bar in the mixer when its hooked up to the NAD, simply because when you're connected to the NAD, Windows might do something different to the HDMI output because it detects a different device. If it incorrectly discovers it it won't work. Make sure you see the green bar in the Windows mixer, then you can be absolutely certain its in your receiver/DAC and you can chase NAD for a solution.

[artto]

"Still no luck" means it still doesn't work with the NAD C390.

No, there is no green bar that has anything to do with the NAD. I've gone through this enough times now that I know Windows 8 Control Panel/Device Manager inside/out. All of the newer HDTV worked as they should and the NAD does not. Either something is wrong with my particular unit, or NAD has overlooked something relating to HTPC (PC based Home Theater).

If I have the time this weekend I might try using my PlayStation 3 as a HT source and see if the NAD accepts it's video/audio through HDMI passing the video to a HDTV and separating the audio to the stereo system creating a "2.1 HT" as they claim it can do. I already know that having a combined video/audio signal present (like a BluRay player) is not required for the NAD to work for audio only because I can use the Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD player via HDMI as an audio only source and the NAD sync up just fine to discs with different sample rate.

BTW, just for everyone's information, the NAD C390DD DOES conform to HDMI 1.3a specification and Audio Rate Control (CEC command). My contact at NAD regarding my HDMI issue has confirmed this with NAD's lead engineer. This specification should end any contentions regarding HDMI audio having any jitter issues, or having higher jitter than other digital connections such as TOSLINK or USB.

Audio Rate Control (ARC) allows the receiver to slightly and continuously adjust the audio clock rate of the Source in order to match the sync’s crystal-based audio clock rate. The Sync of the receiver (in my case the NAD integrated amplifier) controls the Source’s (Sony SACD player) audio clock rate with the CEC (Set Audio Rate) command. Simply put, with this feature enabled there is no audio jitter with HDMI as was the case prior to HDMI specification 1.3a whereby the audio signal got it's sync from the video signal. And if no video signal was present, the result was jitter galore.

[astromo]

"Still no luck" means it still doesn't work with the NAD C390.

...

BTW, just for everyone's information, the NAD C390DD DOES conform to HDMI 1.3a specification and Audio Rate Control (CEC command). My contact at NAD regarding my HDMI issue has confirmed this with NAD's lead engineer. This specification should end any contentions regarding HDMI audio having any jitter issues, or having higher jitter than other digital connections such as TOSLINK or USB.

Audio Rate Control (ARC) allows the receiver to slightly and continuously adjust the audio clock rate of the Source in order to match the sync’s crystal-based audio clock rate. The Sync of the receiver (in my case the NAD integrated amplifier) controls the Source’s (Sony SACD player) audio clock rate with the CEC (Set Audio Rate) command. Simply put, with this feature enabled there is no audio jitter with HDMI as was the case prior to HDMI specification 1.3a whereby the audio signal got it's sync from the video signal. And if no video signal was present, the result was jitter galore.

Well, due to a recent once a year event that everyone has due to the blessing of their arrival into the world I decided to treat myself. My philosophy is that no one can get you a present better than the one you get for yourself (although I'm not knocking the other alternative). So, I ordered an NAD C 390DD complete with both optional input cards:

• DD AP-1 Analogue Phono Module
• DD HDM-1 HDMI Module

Why? Well, I could, so why not?

Got it delivered to work this Friday just passed and got it home that night (why wait?). It was out of the box, replacing the C 375BEE in no time and being loaded with the latest firmware. For my system setup, check my signature details.

I set it up for HDMI pass through, which is a neat feature where the video only passes to the video device (which in my case is a TV so I no longer have to deal with managing the duff TV speakers and Microsoft's stupid idea of only allowing a user to feed audio to one output for Windows 7 ..  ? ) and the audio is played through the amp as good sense intended.

I tested the HDMI pass through with 16/44.1, 24/96 and 24/192 audio files with MC18.0 Build 193. For completeness, I did the same with the optical out.

The result?

Works like a charm in both cases. No jitter. Just clean sound and sensible function. I didn't bother with USB because there's not much point when you've got the choice of HDMI or optical. I've configured the inputs to streamline down to the ones I'll typically use. Neat feature.

Now all I have to do is enjoy the new unit and work out what to do with its older brother.

To wrap up, I can't replicate artto's problem with MC18. On the contrary, the C 390DD worked straight out of the box. When I get time, I'll load up MC17 to this machine and try it on for size.

At this stage, and unless his unit or I/O cards are faulty somehow, it appears to me that the problem is probably located somewhere outside the (literally) black box. Regardless, better to confirm and be conclusive. I'll post back when I've got an update worth sharing.

[tgundo2003]

FWIW-

I have a 390DD on display at the shop with HDMI out of a Mac Mini, and it works flawless with either OSX/iTunes/Puremusic or bootcamp Windows7/JRMC18. It was a breeze to set up and sounds great either way. I vote for something is up with the hardware/firmware on the OP's PC.

The wonderful world of HDMI...Remember the "source" is the boss, if it does not like something about the destination it will shut down the output.

OP- Can you get your hands on an HDMI analyzer to see what is going on with your communications between devices?

[astromo]

FWIW-

I have a 390DD on display at the shop with HDMI out of a Mac Mini, and it works flawless with either OSX/iTunes/Puremusic or bootcamp Windows7/JRMC18. It was a breeze to set up and sounds great either way. I vote for something is up with the hardware/firmware on the OP's PC.

The wonderful world of HDMI...Remember the "source" is the boss, if it does not like something about the destination it will shut down the output.

OP- Can you get your hands on an HDMI analyzer to see what is going on with your communications between devices?

tgundo, good to hear that the NAD is so flexible and user friendly. Just the sort of comment you want to hear after making a significant financial outlay. I've stuck with NAD from my first system that was driven by a 3240PE that I bought after I graduated from Uni. I have found their kit to be enduring, well engineered and excellent value. artto's problem just didn't fit with my historical experience and I had sufficient confidence to make the purchase of the C 390DD without absolute knowledge that I wouldn't suffer the same fate.

Back to the mission. I've just finished testing out my setup with MC17.0 Build189 (i.e. the end of development version) using WASAPI Event Style (default settings) and my suspicions were confirmed.

I tested the same files at the bit depths and sample rates noted previously (WAV files for the record BTW) and I had no problemo, clean sound (well to my ear anyway). I listened to 16bit/44.1kHz FLAC files without problem as well.

So artto, I suggest that you investigate hardware issues. MC is the messenger and shouldn't be shot at in this case. I'd be happy to cross check file playback or settings for you. Just post relevant details here and PM me specifics (e.g. sound files that you could upload to a cloud file store for me to download).

And, as an aside, I'm glad to read how a dedicated audiophile like you has opted for a digital amp platform. That's a substantial move away from valves. From what I'm hearing right now, we've made a good choice (driven by capable software to boot  ...    )

[astromo]

artto, further thought .. I've got a Toshiba notebook loaded with Windows 8 and it has an HDMI port.

Give me some time and I'll get MC17 loaded onto it and I'll do another test run.

[artto]

Yes, there are still problems. I believe I'm near the end of the troubleshooting process. There appear to be multiple issues.

HP has turned out to NOT be very helpful at all. NAD/Crutchfield.com has replaced the NAD C390DD and the optional HDMI and analog input modules. Crutchfield's customer service was amazing, the absolute gold standard especially considering I was past the 60 day customer satisfaction guarantee deadline.

This is what I've tried so far:

I hooked up the HP g6-2235us notebook PC to the HDMI inputs of 4 HDTV. 3 of the 4 were immediately recognized by the PC. The Windows Desktop was displayed on the TV and I could play the Windows test sounds through them. The one HDTV that wasn't recognized is an older set (2009).

I borrowed a friends HP dv7-4153cl Windows 7 notebook PC and the C390 recognized it as soon as I plugged in the HDMI cable. I could also play the Windows test sounds through the C390.

Then I went to Best Buy and tried my g6 PC through the HDMI port of a Pioneer Elite SC-61 digital amp receiver. This also worked. No configuration necessary, just plug and play.

Even though I was well past the allowed return date at Staples where I bought the PC, they were aware that I was there before complaining about this. The store manager agreed work with me on this (there were a  number of rebates, coupon, rewards and gift card involved with the initial purchase and it wasn't clear if these would transfer to a new purchase). The manager agreed to let me try a different model HP laptop and if that one didn't work right we would try another manufacturer. Staples doesn't have any more Windows 7 machines (it was beginning to look like Windows 8 might be part of the culprit) so this would help isolate whether this was an HP or Windows 8 issue or totally NAD's responsibility.

I brought home a HP Envy dv7-7210us with Beats Audio. EUREKA! The C390 sync'd up and recognized it showing 48Khz on the display. I could play the Windows test sounds through my stereo system. I then changed the Windows sound configurations to 192Khz and the C390 sync'd up to that so then  I installed JRiver and some hi-res sound files (FLAC) and they played as well.

I was about to settle in for some listening so I turned the rest of my equipment on and then that's when the next round of problems started. I had switched the C390 source to the FM tuner (using Wi-Fi internet radio) while turning things on and getting ready. When I switched the C390 source back to the computer HDMI it read "unlock" and the sample rate was gone. I turned the C390 off and then on again. Same thing - "unlock", no audio. So then I tried reconfiguring Windows to default 48Khz/16bit, still no audio. GRRRRR......... So I thought, what's different now than when everything worked earlier? The NAD C446 Media Player (FM tuner), Behringer DEQ2496 and Sony SCD XA5400ES super audio player were now turned on. First I turned off the C446 since this had a digital connection (optical) to the C390 and shared the internet Wi-Fi connection with the PC. Still no audio. The DEQ2496 is just being used as a processor for the subwoofers and is using the analog line level C390 output so it shouldn't have any effect and didn't. The Sony SACD player however is also connected to the C390 via HDMI. I turned the SACD player off. That worked! The HDMI audio from the PC was available again and the C390 showed 192Khz again!

However, this morning things have changed once more. I was about to retest the above scenario but when I turned the C390 on the display shows 96Khz even though Windows is configured for 192Khz. I haven't been able to test any further because darn Windows keeps updating the OS every time I reboot since this is a new machine.

Call me "Artto in Wonderland", but this is getting to be just a little weird.

EDIT:  the HP Envy dv7-7210us model# is wrong. The correct model# is Envy dv6-7210us

[artto]

Windows 8 has been updated several times since I plugged in the new PC to the NAD C390 HDMI input. Things have gotten progressively worse and everything is now working the way it was with the first PC ~ no HDMI audio, the C390 display shows "unlock", no sample rate.

I'm now doing a complete restore on the PC and disconnecting Wi-Fi/internet so it can't update anything when it's done and see where that leads.

[astromo]

artto, further thought .. I've got a Toshiba notebook loaded with Windows 8 and it has an HDMI port.

Give me some time and I'll get MC17 loaded onto it and I'll do another test run.

Test results for MC17.0.189 on a Windows 8 Toshiba Satellite Pro L750 with WAV files to NAD C 390DD via HDMI:

• 16bit/44.1kHz - OK
• 24bit/96kHz - OK
• 24bit/192kHz - OK

The NAD display read 192kHz.

And on that note, I'm late, I'm late ... so I'll have to leave the Mad Hatter and his tea party.

Sorry, to know you continue to be frustrated. Heartening though that you at least had some success. My only final "clutch at straws" thought is maybe you should try different cables   ?

Separate issue but I've solved some TV signal issues that weren't easily explained via a cable change.

[artto]

Sorry, to know you continue to be frustrated. Heartening though that you at least had some success. My only final "clutch at straws" thought is maybe you should try different cables   ?

Separate issue but I've solved some TV signal issues that weren't easily explained via a cable change.

I've already tried the different cable thing. Two that are the same from Monoprice (silver plated conductors) and one from Radio Shack, FWIW ~ one of their "better" ones - oxygen free copper and all that good stuff.

[artto]

astromo, was your Toshiba using a previous version of Windows or is it a recently made machine and came preinstalled with Windows 8?

Also, have you updated Windows 8 a number of times to get the most recent version?

EDIT: Also what is the software version in your C390?

thnx

[astromo]

astromo, was your Toshiba using a previous version of Windows or is it a recently made machine and came preinstalled with Windows 8?

Also, have you updated Windows 8 a number of times to get the most recent version?

EDIT: Also what is the software version in your C390?

thnx

The Toshiba's OEM OS was Win 7 SP1 Premium that I upgraded to Win 8 using the relevant offer from Microsoft. It's been loaded with all the relevant drivers from Toshiba with the exception that I update the Nvidia graphics card driver from the manufacturer's website direct. The OS was fully up to date and the C 390DD was also loaded with the latest firmware (when I get home I'll give you the version details from the amp itself) that I downloaded on Friday 31 May 2013 from the NAD website...  

Edit- The installed firmware versions are as follows:

• Main v2.69
• DSP v1.0
• USB v1.7

[artto]

Thanks for your reply Iain.

one more question ~ when did you purchase the C390 and optional HDMI module? I'm just trying to figure out of NAD made a revision at some point that's not compatible with Windows 8 OS and Windows 8 hardware.

Right now, it appears that this has something to do with more recently manufactured PC that were designed for and preinstalled with Windows 8. Windows 7 machines seem to be OK even if they were upgraded to Windows 8.

[astromo]

No worries.Glad to be of some assistance.

I purchased the NAD kit just last week, viz.27 May is the invoice date.
 
If it helps, I can PM you the serial numbers off the amp and the I/O module. Just let me know what you want to do.. 

[artto]

Thnx Iain. I purchased mine 2+ months ago. Crutchfield/NAD has since replaced the C390 and both optional modules. Crutchfield was fantastic they way they handled the exchange.

I have the 2nd HP notebook finished reinstalling Windows 8 back to original. I'll see if it works again like it did fresh out of the box. If it does I'll reinstall Windows 8 on the first HP notebook and see if that works. I never had that one connected to the C390 before I did all the Windows updates. It never worked from the beginning (with the updates) and this may be because of something in the updates because I went back to Staples and got a Toshiba C855-S5350 Windows 8 laptop yesterday and it works fine ~ so far. However this time I disabled my Wi-Fi connection and did not let Windows update anything.

If it turns out that the Windows 8/Windows 8 hardware/Windows 8 updates combination has something to do with the C390 HDMI module not being able to communicate with the PC, I guess NAD has some work to do because the first PC I used with all of the most recent Windows 8 updates/drivers works OK with my 3 more recent HDMI HDTV, and two other HDMI receiver's that are last year's models.

[artto]

I hope I'm not jumping the gun but I got a third PC from the retailer (Staples) (thank you Staples), a Toshiba C855-S5350 laptop with Windows 8.

*So Far* this PC is working as expected with the NAD C390DD and J River 17 through HDMI. I updated manually Windows until no further updates were available, testing the C390/Toshiba combination after each update.

There is definitely some kind of HDMI compatibility issue between the NAD C390 and certain HP laptops. Whose to blame I don't know. All I can say is that NAD and their dealer Crutchfield.com stood 100% behind their product and HP did not.

The two HP notebooks at issue are Pavilion g6-2235us and Envy dv6-7210us. The Pavilion never worked at all, even after reinstalling Windows. The Envy would work ~ sometimes, but required turning the C390 off and on and/or rebooting the PC, and even then sometimes the C390 display would show the wrong sample rate, such as 48Khz when Windows was set to 192Khz. Of course no sound is produced under this condition, so the C390 and PC had to be turned off and restarted.

EDIT: I've installed the rest of my software such as Sony Sound Forge Pro 10/CD Architect, REW5 and NCH Tone Generator. Up to this point everything is still working correctly and as expected.

It's hard to believe that a pair of different model Windows 8 HP laptops could cause so much grief.

[astromo]

Fantastic!!   

Sounds like you can't help but point the finger at a computer hardware issue. I was very confident from the outset that MC wasn't your problem and felt very sure that the NAD wasn't the issue either.

I bought another Toshiba laptop for myself. The previous one had a cup of tea spilt on it. After I drained out the liquid, opened it up and put a hair dryer on the internals for a few days it restarted and still operates today (although its not my main unit - trust in it has been washed away to some extent you might say). They may not be the sexiest bit of PC hardware but my experience has been that they keep chugging away doing their thing.