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[ssands]

First my setup:
MC18 on a Win7-64, laptop, 8 GB RAM, i5 processor@ 2.67 GHz.
My main library is on a ReadyNAS disk. I am streaming to a Naim ND5SX (network player/DAC, supports many formats up to 192/24 resolution.)
The Naim and the ReadyNAS are wired connections. The Laptop is wireless.

When I stream CD quality audio to the Naim, it plays fine. When I stream Hi-Res  audio to my laptop, it plays fine. When I stream Hi-Res audio (192/24 or 98/24), I get pauses in the playback, lasting several seconds.

So, this got me thinking. And I really don't know how MC works, so here goes. If the music was streaming to MC on my laptop and then to the Naim (over the wireless connection) that might cause the gaps. I haven't tried using the laptop with a wired connection yet so see how that works.

However, it seems to me that MC should be a controller in this situation and NOT having the audio route through it. What I thought would happen is that (somehow) MC is telling the Naim to grab the audio from the ReadyNAS without having the audio go through the wireless laptop.

So, is this what is happening? If so, is there a way to not have the gaps? (Using the laptop wired is not a feasible solution).

I'm hoping there is some configuration I just don't know about...

Thanks in advance.

[Peter_RN]

I’m not an expert on how control points etc work but surely whether or not your music is passing through the laptop will depend on how you are controlling the Naim. Is the ReadyNas the Server or more likely MC, how do you select your music? You may already know that Naim streamers have to ‘Pull’ music from the server, if you wish to control the Niam any way other than from the front screen you need to run a control point such as n-stream on an iOS device.

Regarding the dropouts you are experiencing I think it is generally recommended that only one leg should be wireless, this could be why your files play on the laptop but struggle when sent via a second wireless leg to the Naim. Could you try and connect the laptop via cable and see if the Hi-Res files then play OK?

Hope you sort this soon.

Peter

[JimH]

Could you test it with a wired connection to see if that's the problem?

[ssands]

Ok, so I tested with a wired connection and playback was fine. This tells me the bits are flowing from the NAS to my laptop and then to the Naim streamer/dac. And that the wireless legs of the journey can't accommodate 24 bit audio ( at any of the higher sample rates). It might also explain some occasional "stutters" when I route video from the NAS to the AV receiver connected to the TV.

Any idea on how I can remedy this? It's a pretty critical issue.

[JimH]

That seems like a network bandwidth issue. 

[Peter_RN]

So, if you stream your Hi-Res files from the ReadyNas directly to the Naim everything works fine? In that case you need more bandwidth than your (wireless) network is capable of, as Jim has said.

You say that a wired connection is not a feasible; I wonder why this is. I am assuming that you use the laptop in the same room that the Naim is in, so you have an Ethernet cable in the room already? Could you not install a small switch, tucked away behind the Naim if you wish, supply it using the cable currently plugged into the Naim – new short cable into Naim and connect the laptop into the switch when you wish to play the Hi-Res files.

Peter

[ssands]

Yes, apparently, wireless bandwidth is the issue, but only bi-directionally. That is, if I stream the same hi-res audio to my laptop and play it on the laptop, it plays fine, without gaps.

So, is there a buffer that I can increase the size of?
Is there a "mode" in which MC acts strictly as a controller and directs the audio to go from NAS to the Naim?
Some other solution? I expect the bandwidth problem may be due to walls between the WAP and the laptop.
The laptop does not live near a ethernet jack, which is why it operates wirelessly. Also, this is the only case in which there is a problem.

Any ideas?

[Samson]

Yes, apparently, wireless bandwidth is the issue, but only bi-directionally. That is, if I stream the same hi-res audio to my laptop and play it on the laptop, it plays fine, without gaps.

So, is there a buffer that I can increase the size of?
Is there a "mode" in which MC acts strictly as a controller and directs the audio to go from NAS to the Naim?
Some other solution? I expect the bandwidth problem may be due to walls between the WAP and the laptop.
The laptop does not live near a ethernet jack, which is why it operates wirelessly. Also, this is the only case in which there is a problem.

Any ideas?

you can experiment with buffering under tools > audio > output mode settings

There are programs to measure weak wifi signal strength and throughput but does the laptop receive full strength for internet connection in all the different locations?

Not sure whether is applicable but maybe a range extender or ethernet over power connection?

[ssands]

you can experiment with buffering under tools > audio > output mode settings

There are programs to measure weak wifi signal strength and throughput but does the laptop receive full strength for internet connection in all the different locations?

Not sure whether is applicable but maybe a range extender or ethernet over power connection?

I will try the buffer settings.

It's interesting however. My laptop shows full strength wireless. I have very fast download speed. So, I'm thinking the bandwidth may not be the issue. Especially, since it plays fine on my PC. Could it be the internal "processing" in MC?
Something doesn't seem right, and I wonder if it is a setup/config issue, especially since it doesn't seem other are having this problem.

Not sure what to look at, unless there are recommendations for setting up MC. I admit MC is deep and perhaps I am missing some important information.

[Samson]

I will try the buffer settings.

It's interesting however. My laptop shows full strength wireless. I have very fast download speed. So, I'm thinking the bandwidth may not be the issue. Especially, since it plays fine on my PC. Could it be the internal "processing" in MC?
Something doesn't seem right, and I wonder if it is a setup/config issue, especially since it doesn't seem other are having this problem.

Not sure what to look at, unless there are recommendations for setting up MC. I admit MC is deep and perhaps I am missing some important information.

See how the buffering goes. And yes MC runs very deep,you may need one of the gurus here to dig deeper.However, if an ethernet connection solves the issue then thats why I suggested EOP (if you cant run a wire, if it is practicle and other things fail)

[ssands]

See how the buffering goes. And yes MC runs very deep,you may need one of the gurus here to dig deeper.However, if an ethernet connection solves the issue then thats why I suggested EOP (if you cant run a wire, if it is practicle and other things fail)

Well, I tried a few things but to no avail. I tried increasing the buffer to 500 ms, but that didn't work. I tried switching out the router for a different one, but that didn't work.

I'm really stuck. If I play to the computer, it works. If I stream it to my Naim streamer, it keeps getting interupted.

The wireless signal is very strong. I've tried PoE before, but it is a solution I'd rather not use right now. Especially, because this *should* work.

I'm flummoxed.

[Samson]

MC may not be the culprit esp since the wired connection works but turn off any DSP or other processes/conversions that may be causing delay.

24@192 is about 4.6 Mbps [EDIT, 9.22 Mbps for stereo] data transfer or bandwidth which should easily be handled over most wifi even with losses for this and that.I am not a network expert but possibly there are also latency or other issues.I dont think "signal strength" per se is a good enough indicator of performance.When I have task manager open with network performance tab the wired connection is steady and strong where wifi speeds vary widely, in excess of 120 Mbps (so it says) and way down below 50.I know when i stream HD video I get more buffering occuring.Maybe get some proper software tools and measure both bandwidth and latency.

Hope it works out.

[Peter_RN]

Sorry, I keep losing this thread expecting it to be in Media Network.  ?

If you check the ‘Buffer Level’ via the front screen on your Naim you can watch and you will see it drop away and the music stop until it starts to fill again. If this is happening, which it surely is from what you say, then you have a network problem, data is not being received quickly enough to maintain playback. You know this already I’m sure.

In your Naim manual you will read a note under the heading ‘Wireless Network Connection Set Up’ which explains that only one wireless ‘leg’ should be used. I am sure that someone will say that they are using more than one and good luck to them if they can, unfortunately your environment is not suitable for you to do so, or so it would appear.

I can also say that MC will not work as a control point for the Naim. I have just set my system up as such to test (although I knew this would not work) and it does not, it may play a track depending on how MC is set up but then it stops. This is as I understand it (no expert remember) because all Naim streaming products are designed to ‘Pull’ music from the server; you cannot ‘Push’ to them. Consequently, they do not communicate with many control points as they would need to for this to work.

However, all Naim streaming products are designed to work using a control point loaded on an Apple iOS device, iPad, iPhone or iPod and they supply a free app ‘n-stream’ to enable you to do this. There is a stated intention to supply an Android version of n-stream at a future date, this may be a big help as they can be run from a desktop I understand, but well, I won’t be holding my breath.

I suspect that you will be aware of all or most of this but I can assure you that I have spent a couple of years trying to developing a solution to this (I do not use any wireless) and there is no easy answer.

Final thought, if an Android solution is of interest to you, although I have not taken much interest in it myself, I believe that a chap named Bubblegum who posts both here and on the Naim Forum on occasions may have developed a program that will run on Android and work with n-stream to operate Naim kit amongst others.

Good luck
Peter

[ssands]

Sorry, I keep losing this thread expecting it to be in Media Network.  ?

Again, Thanks for the responses. As far as posting in Media Network, chalk it up to Newbie error.

So, yes, the roundtrip between NAS to Laptop (wireless) and back to Naim (wireless) is killing me. (Incidentally, the Naim is a gigabit wired connection, so the two wireless legs are to/from the laptop back to router).

I can use MC to play to the Naim (I'm doing it now w/o a problem), it's the high-res files that kill me. I converted some to FLAC and the playback was better but still gapped, just not as often.

My wireless card reports about 50 Mbps, which I guess just isn't enough bi-directionally (it does work if I play on MC on my laptop).

I will definitely check out the Android solution you mentioned as I am not a Apple guy...hopefully that will work.

I may also try out a newer router (I'm using a Cisco WRVS4400N and it is end of life, and has some bugs that they aren't going to fix).

Of note is that I did get somewhat better response when I changed from a 20MHz bandwidth to a 40MHz bandwidth, but not enough joy there.

Samson, you actually need to double your number for data xfer rate for stereo  . Still, you'd think there would be enough.

Maybe I'll give PoE another shot.

[Samson]

Samson, you actually need to double your number for data xfer rate for stereo 

Not at all, I'm deaf in one ear ! ......just kidding,made the correction 

[cmg]

Yes, apparently, wireless bandwidth is the issue, but only bi-directionally. That is, if I stream the same hi-res audio to my laptop and play it on the laptop, it plays fine, without gaps.

So, is there a buffer that I can increase the size of?
Is there a "mode" in which MC acts strictly as a controller and directs the audio to go from NAS to the Naim?
Some other solution? I expect the bandwidth problem may be due to walls between the WAP and the laptop.
The laptop does not live near a ethernet jack, which is why it operates wirelessly. Also, this is the only case in which there is a problem.

Any ideas?

Hi
I found this thread because I have the  same problem. A synology NAS connected  to an  Asus N55u modem/router that streams  wirelessly to a Pioneer n30 and to a laptop. When I play 192/24 files on my laptop (near the Pioneer) it plays OK, but the  Pioneer behaves like your Naim.
I Wonder if you solved your problem and how.
Thanks in advance
Regards

[ssands]

Hi
I found this thread because I have the  same problem. A synology NAS connected  to an  Asus N55u modem/router that streams  wirelessly to a Pioneer n30 and to a laptop. When I play 192/24 files on my laptop (near the Pioneer) it plays OK, but the  Pioneer behaves like your Naim.
I Wonder if you solved your problem and how.
Thanks in advance
Regards

I did solve my problem. I tried a new router/access point but that still didn't help. Then I realized I was getting much better throughput in other parts of the house. That indicated to me that my normal laptop location was in too weak an area. I had an old router that I hadn't gotten around to selling yet. I plugged that into a hard connection I had that was line-of-sight to my laptop. My connection went from averaging 50 - 6- mbps to 300 mbps.

And now it all works just fine. Playback from my NAS to MC to my Naim works without a problem.

I was lucky in that I had a LAN port unused and in a convenient location. I know some people use powerline networking but that can have issues crossing circuits so I didn't try it.

The other option that worked was using MC as a controller only and thus the music moved over wired lines from the NAS to the Naim, but controlled by MC. I didn't like that option as much as I had to create a second library for that.