Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[wawaron]

Hi, this is my first post to the JRiver forum. I'm rather new to computer music so trying out JRiver MC18 will probably buy it. I like the ease of use for I'm rather limited in my computer knowledge. The question I have and I have many but will start with one. I have well over 1100 CDs that I'm slowly converting to FLAC. I have so far ripped 4600 files. I would like to backup these files to my WD HD. How do I do this? In simple easy steps that I can then follow easily. I know there as been many answers but I can't figure them out. How do I backup my music? How do I setup MC to do it automatically afterwards?
Please use plain language, step by step. Think of me as being computer illiterate.

Thank you

PS. Please don't refer me to other parts of the Forum or Blog. There is a reason I'm asking the question again. Follow the KISS principle.

[JimH]

Welcom to the forum.  Did you try a search?  This has been discussed many times.

In simplest terms, you need to put the files on a different drive.

[astromo]

Hi, this is my first post to the JRiver forum. I'm rather new to computer music so trying out JRiver MC18 will probably buy it. I like the ease of use for I'm rather limited in my computer knowledge. The question I have and I have many but will start with one. I have well over 1100 CDs that I'm slowly converting to FLAC. I have so far ripped 4600 files. I would like to backup these files to my WD HD. How do I do this? In simple easy steps that I can then follow easily. I know there as been many answers but I can't figure them out. How do I backup my music? How do I setup MC to do it automatically afterwards?
Please use plain language, step by step. Think of me as being computer illiterate.

Thank you

PS. Please don't refer me to other parts of the Forum or Blog. There is a reason I'm asking the question again. Follow the KISS principle.

I understand KISS. Am all for it.

So, along that line, draw us all a picture (simple graphic) of your system architecture. Maybe a screen shot or 2 of the folder where you've ripped your files and where you want to back them up to.

Also, you'll be doing well if no one refers you to other parts of the forum / interweb. Many of us out here work with the KISS idea of not reinventing the wheel. On that note, I agree with JimH regarding searching and refer you to my advice here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=81193.msg553022#msg553022
The basic principles are relevant to you and if you read to the bottom of the post, you'll see how helpful the forum is if you have a go first.


As a side note for "bedtime reading", I personally have found these references very useful in my general understanding of computer audio on a Windows platform and setting it all up right (or pretty close) the first time:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/309-computer-audiophile-cd-ripping-strategy-and-methodology/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/330-windows-7-audio-j-river-media-center-14-configuration/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/436-jriver-media-center-17-detail/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/524-complete-guide-hifi-upnp-dlna-network-audio/

[wawaron]

Thanks for all the replies. Yes I did do a search which for me turns out to be next to useless. Printed most of the articles mentioned and yes read them all. I no further ahead. Yes I know backing up means transferring to another drive BUT how do I do it in JRiver???
I said my computer skills are extremely limited. Is there such a thing as an "How to section" that walks novices through this procedures. The forum is useful but I need more hand holding to set up and back up. Most of search sections give information that I do not fully understand or know how to use it.

The system that I'm using a laptop running Windows 7, with an M2Tec HIFace Dac(384Mhz/32 bits) into my stereo receiver. Also have a Western Digital HD which I copy files to. These files are My Music files from Windows Explorer but by doing this way I end up with duplicates copy of files. If I could set up a proper back up procedure within JRiver it would make things easier.

Also is there a way while ripping CDs they can be sent to the main Library and to the HD as instantaneous backup???

Thanks

[Samson]

If I could set up a proper back up procedure within JRiver it would make things easier.

AFAIK MC does not offer backup functionality...if it does someone will correct me.JimH is the Head honcho so he would know.

have a Western Digital HD which I copy files to. These files are My Music files from Windows Explorer but by doing this way I end up with duplicates copy of files.

Having duplicates of the files is arguably the commonest,simplest, and in some ways best way of backing up files. You may be talking about proprietary backup programs,like the one in windows,that backs files up to a "special" file with a special extension at the end, something like "my backup.bak". Usually these files will be compressed, meaning you save space which is a good thing.The downside is that the files are locked away in these special files and so you depend on the backup program to access them.Thats potentially problematic.Now there are a million ways to do backups and arrange storage but suffice to say it just gets more and more complicated from a novice pc user point of view......."image" the hard discs, or set up RAID storage and automated processes with built in redundancy....but probably lost you already?

To KISS,as requested, continue to copy the files/folders to your external hard drive.HD's are relatively cheap as storage so even if backups are not compressed, not a big deal usually.You want a bit smarter than this? Consider simple but effective free backup programs like Allway Synch (directly manages the duplicating and synching of files).It can make the job much easier and without much effort you are regularly backing up just those files that have changed from last time, and automated.

If you want more 'safety' then consider either keeping a HD backup in a separate physical location (in case of fire and theft) or back up to the 'cloud' (internet storage server)...but complicated again.

Also is there a way while ripping CDs they can be sent to the main Library and to the HD as instantaneous backup???

not that I am aware....

[JimH]

JimH is the Head honcho so he would know.

No more.  Matt's the HH now.

[CountryBumkin]

As mentioned, the safest way to is have two (or more) hard drives where the data is always backed up to the other drive(s) automatically. Most modern motherboards these days have a software RAID capability built in. Look up your MB brand/model and see if you have this. Look for Intel Rapid Storage Information and look in your manual for the BIOS settings - see if you have a setting for RAID (Redundant Array of Independent Disks).

[Frobozz]

Backup strategies can get complicated.  And everyone is going to give different advice which will probably cause confusion.  I can tell you what works for me.  It's not the best way to do things.  There is other software and methods that can do it better.  The important part is to have a system that you can understand and manage and be confident you can do a recovery with.

For general backup and system backup (a backup of the OS) I use EaseUS Todo Backup Free.  It is free for home use.  It does partition image style backups.  An image is like a picture of the partition, and all the files stored there, at the time of the backup. 

Start EaseUS Todo Backup.  Have it do a "system backup".  Have it save the backup to a location on your backup drive (I use a USB drive).
A system backup will backup your entire C drive along with any boot partition and boot settings.  Everything necessary to do a full recovery of the C drive and the OS.  If your music is also on the C drive the music files will also get backed up.  If your C drive crashes this system backup will allow you to recover to a new hard drive.  It works.  I had to recover a laptop that had a drive crash.  Recovered the system image to a new drive.  The laptop booted with the new drive and was ready to go.

EaseUS Todo Backup can also do file based backups for data.  You can use this to backup your data directories.

For my music files I use FreeFileSync to mirror my music directories to a backup drive.  This copies my entire music directory tree to my backup drive(s).  It can be configured to only copy over files that have changed since the last backup.  It's a great tool.  If a backup gets interrupted, or if you need to cancel a backup in the middle, it can restart from where it left off.  Super handy.  And the best way to manage copying lots of files.  I use this to backup my music files and video files to several different backup drives.

You'll want to make sure that your backup also includes all of JRiver Media Center's various data folders. 
Go to Tools >> Options >> File Locations
Make sure that all of those folders are included in your backup plan.

[Listener]

Thanks for all the replies. Yes I did do a search which for me turns out to be next to useless. Printed most of the articles mentioned and yes read them all. I no further ahead. Yes I know backing up means transferring to another drive BUT how do I do it in JRiver???

You are putting time and effort into ripping your CDs.  You need to become competent in using your PC in general. Creating backups of your files isn't specific to MC and you don't use MC to do the backups.

There are several kinds of data and programs files to back up:

- your music files. (Flac files).  To make a backup copy of these files, You should use Windows Explorer, another file copy program or a program specifically for backing up the contents of your computer.  You do not want to import the backup copies of your music files into MC as that will create duplicates.

- The library database files MC that uses to keep track of your music files.  MC automatically creates a backup version of these files every so often.  These library backups are normally on drive C.  You should copy these backup files to another drive using the same method as for music files.

- Entries in the Windows Registry that MC uses to keep track of settings.  You can't copy the Registry with Windows Explorer but most backup software can.

- MC program files and data files. When you installed MC, the program files were placed on your computer and some data files were created.  Any of the methods for copying music files will work for these files too.

A program specifically for backup will take care of copying all these things to a different drive.  The first time you do a backup, you might tell the backup program to back up your entire system.  The next few times you do a backup, you can tell the program to backup up only files that have changed.  That will be much quicker. Everry so often, make a full backup again.

I don't have experience with the program Frobuzz recommended but I think his advice is good in general.  The methods you can use for backing up music files will work for these files too.

RAID is not backup.

> Also is there a way while ripping CDs they can be sent to the main Library and to the HD as instantaneous backup???

No.

Bill

[astromo]

I personally found the advice here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76332.0
very useful and put it to use myself.

[wawaron]

Thank you all for the useful info. Frobozz I'll be trying the free software you mentioned. It looks easy to use. Hope it works. I don't want to reripp these CDs a 3rd time. I still haven't finished ripping in FLAC yet still have over 6000 more files to rip. So the backup is a must. Once again thanks.

wawaron

[csimon]

As other people have mentioned, there is backup software that you can use which will automate backups and may have sophisticated algorithms to only backup things that have changed once a complete backup has been done.

However, the really, really simple answer to get basic backup is as follows:

1. Get an external USB hard disk.
2. Set it up according to its manual and plug it in.
3. Using Windows, copy all your music files to it.

[wawaron]

Hi, just finished downloading Freefile sync an d am trying to backup my C drive to my E drive. FreeFile sync as no instructions, no how to and the help menu is for me totally useless. All this programs seem to be made for people who have all the computer skills needed. I have next to no computer skills when it comes to playing with anymore than the Internet. I stay away from programming or any such things. I thought FreeFile sync would be easy my mistake.
I can't even do a complete C drive backup to start. I expected maybe a Backup button. How do I back up my C drive unto my E drive to start?

Then how do I sync or compare drives??

Thank you

[csimon]

See my post above. Manually copy your files from C: to E:, you don't need software to do that. Do you know how to copy files?

Windows also has a Backup utility built-in. Search for Backup in Help.

Please take the time to learn about Windows and how to do basic things before you expect to operate complicated software.  If you are able to rip CDs and install software then you should have the ability to learrn how to copy files.

[6233638]

I use Acronis True Image Home for backups, which is simple to use, and gives you a lot of options for the type of backup. (scheduling, whether you want to do a full backup or just sync changes each time etc.)
The only downside to using Acronis is that it stores backups in its own .tib format, rather than the files being directly accessible if you connect the drive to another computer. This is fine for an actual backup, but not if you just want a portable copy of your library.

I have it set up so that it runs a non-stop backup to one external 2TB drive, which checks for changes every five minutes and syncs them over. The way it does this also means that you can go back several "versions" and get back a file you deleted a few days ago, or undo changes etc.

I also do a daily incremental backup to another 2TB drive which backs up the current state of my library every night. The way this works is that once a week it does a full backup, and each day there is a backup of the changes made. (e.g. if you added 200 files, it only backs them up) There are two full backups stored at any one time, so I can go back to how my library was at any point in the last two weeks.

Both of these drives are left connected to my system, and the backups are fully automated.


And once a month, I plug in a third external drive (1TB) clear its contents, and simply use explorer to make a full copy of my library onto it, so that I have a backup where the files are easily accessible on any other system without requiring Acronis to be installed, and on a drive that is only connected during the backup process.

I am planning on replacing this drive with two 2TB disks (1TB is only enough to store one copy of my library) and moving to a weekly process, rather than monthly, alternating the weeks which the drives are used. (disk 1 is weeks 1 & 3, disk 2 is weeks 2 & 4)
I would like to figure out a way of automating this process so that it happens automatically when the drives are connected to my system though.


I would love it if Media Center had a feature which could automate this third step, automatically syncing my entire music library to an external drive, with an updated library pointing to that location, and putting a portable install of both the Windows and Mac versions at the root of the drive. Then I would have a portable backup of all my files which works on any system I connect the drive to.

See my post above. Manually copy your files from C: to E:, you don't need software to do that. Do you know how to copy files.

Manually copying files over to another drive is not a proper backup solution, and doesn't sync changes unless you simply wipe the backup drive each time you go to create an updated copy of the files.

I am happy to do this with my tertiary backup, but it's a very slow manual process.


And as someone else also mentioned, RAID is not a backup solution either. RAID protects against drive failure, but it does not protect against data loss. (e.g. accidentally deleted files, corrupted files etc.)
You want backups going to external drives, and should have at least one backup that is only ever connected to the system during the backup process, and disconnected any other time.

[Samson]

Quoting myself.... ?

Having duplicates of the files is arguably the commonest,simplest, and in some ways best way of backing up files. ...... proprietary backup programs,like the one in windows,that backs files up to a "special" file with a special extension at the end, .......The downside is that the files are locked away in these special files and so you depend on the backup program to access them........... there are a million ways to do backups and arrange storage but suffice to say it just gets more and more complicated from a novice pc user point of view.......To KISS,as requested, continue to copy the files/folders to your external hard drive.............Consider simple but effective free backup programs like Allway Sync (directly manages the duplicating and synching of files).It can make the job much easier and without much effort you are regularly backing up just those files that have changed from last time, and automated

seems we've gone 'full circle'


A few comments:

• Re your comment "I can't even do a complete C drive backup".In my experience you cannot easily copy your (whole) C Drive,inclusive of system files, unless you are using a proper "imaging" software.I stress the word here is easily.
• I thought your first goal was to get your media off C onto E drive. IMO little or no data should reside on your C drive anyway ( idont even have "program data" or "Appdata" or "Users Accounts" on C - don't worry what they are
• So, recommend you simply move your media files from C to the E Drive,there is nothing easier than this, slelect in explorer and right click, move
• Now the goal is to backup those files that you moved to E to somewhere like "F" ,that is to, make duplicates in some shape or form. "F" could be on another external USB drive.IMO the simplest, KISS as you requested is to use a file copy/syncing program.There are many....Allway Sync, FreeFileSync,Sync Toy,etc.They will automatically track changes and keep the backup drive matched to the source drive.It would be impractical to try and do this manually or to continually start from scratch. Any of these little apps will require some effort to learn and configure.Even if that takes you 10 times longer than average, that would be 100 mins, a relatively small investment to protect your whole media collection
• If you are willing to invest a little more time then an imaging program like Acronis or as I use ,Paragon Hard Disk Manager 11. They will both cost you. However, both may provide something of a 'one stop shopping' to "image" your C Drive (to restore your installation of Windows and all installed programs when disaster strikes...I have used it, or similar, several times over the years) and to do many other forms of backup including just your media files.You are not confined to using but, for beginners, Paragon has lots of relatively simple wizards.It includes a simplified start up user interface based on wizards for people who find it all too complicated.Many of these wizards you may never use but thats ok, you can take your time to explore, after you get going with the 'obvious' one or two.
• Yes there are far more sophisticated approaches but they are all useless if you dont understand them and therefore dont use them. A bit like having a sophisticated DSLR camera but missing the photo opportunity that a 'point and shoot' offers ( I am very much into art photography and do use a sophisticated camera, but hey thats just my obsessive personality trait  )
  
  I have include screenshots of Paragon here so you get an idea (click on them to make bigger).  
  

[astromo]

Well, the learning curve is steep when you're looking at it from ground zero. From my read of it, Samson is providing good advice. The next step will be for wawaron to get in and have a go. After you take in and assimilate all the theory, doing is the only real way to learn this stuff.

The problem with this question is that there are just so many ways to skin the cat.


Hopefully a scatter gun approach of additional reading can be of some use. I went to my friendly interweb search engine and plugged in the keyword string:

simple guide to backing up pc files

Here's a couple of the links that came up to give you some more ideas:
http://lifehacker.com/5816453/how-to-back-up-your-computer
http://thenextweb.com/lifehacks/2011/04/04/a-complete-guide-to-backing-up-your-computer/
http://www.2brightsparks.com/tutorials/thebackupguide.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/209006/how_do_i_back_up_my_data.html
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2363057,00.asp
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/back-up-your-computer.html
http://www.communitytechnology.org.uk/pub/Data%20Backup.pdf


There really is a wealth of advice on this one. In cases like this, I've personally found the best approach is to refer to a source that inspires confidence that provides sufficient detail on the steps involved and then follow them to the letter. When you take the plunge, block out further suggestions and don't be distracted. At least go through a cycle (any cycle) once and then you'll be in a position to reflect on the pros and the cons. Adjust your approach from there.

[Frobozz]

Hi, just finished downloading Freefile sync an d am trying to backup my C drive to my E drive. FreeFile sync as no instructions, no how to and the help menu is for me totally useless. All this programs seem to be made for people who have all the computer skills needed. I have next to no computer skills when it comes to playing with anymore than the Internet. I stay away from programming or any such things. I thought FreeFile sync would be easy my mistake.
I can't even do a complete C drive backup to start. I expected maybe a Backup button. How do I back up my C drive unto my E drive to start?

Then how do I sync or compare drives??

Thank you

The file syncing programs, like FreeFileSync, are a bit of an advanced tool or a geek tool.  They are extremely handy and useful, but not the most friendly or obvious for novice users.  I find a sync tool like FreeFileSync to be almost indispensable, but you can certainly do a full and proper backup of your music files without it.

The backup programs like EaseUS Todo Backup Free or Acronis are more friendly and guided with the use of wizards and documented help.  My suggestion would be to use EaseUS Todo Backup and do a "System Backup" for your C drive and do a "Data backup" for your music files.  Or use Acronis as 6233638 and Samson have suggested.  Either will work fine.  I've used Acronis before and it is very good.  EaseUS just happens to be free for home use and is also good and fits my needs so I've switched to it just to save on licensing costs.

One thing that hasn't been asked yet is where are your music files stored?  Are they on your C drive in "My Music" or are they on a separate drive?  That makes a difference for backup methods.  I've been assuming your music is on a separate drive and not on your C drive.  Windows 7 and Windows 8 also have introduced the concept of libraries where your "My Music" or "My Documents" or "My Pictures" can span directories on separate drives and also span private directories and public directories.  Are you using the libraries feature?  That makes a difference in backup strategies and what folders need to be backed up.

[wawaron]

HI, thank you all for the time and advice. I downloaded the free sync file but removed it for it caused many problems with my computer. It was full of unwanted popups so removed it. I am now backing up using Windows own backup program.

[Frobozz]

I had forgotten that FreeFileSync comes bundled with the OpenCandy installer module.  OpenCandy is the part of the installer that prompts for toolbar installs and other similar add-ons.  Other freeware programs also bundle OpenCandy with the installer.  It's an unfortunate trend.  I've got OpenCandy blocked in my hosts file and on my router which has the effect of disabling the OpenCandy part of the installer.  Add "api.opencandy.com" to your hosts file or to your router's block list and you won't get prompted for the OpenCandy add-ons during the install.

EaseUS Todo Backup Free will prompt with occasional nag windows to promote their paid versions.  I don't believe it tries to install any add-on toolbars or unwanted applications.

The important thing is to find a backup system that works for you and is something you're comfortable with.  Backups are so very important.  I had a media drive crash about a year ago.  It was the drive with my music files.  I had backups and was able to restore, otherwise all my music files would have been gone.

[astromo]

Frobozz, thanks for the tip about Open Candy. I'll very likely use that.
 
I've just been very careful during the install to make sure I decline all the offers to install rubbish on to my system.
 
Another handy bit of software is FreeCommander. It's an Explorer emulator that works with tabs and dual Windows that also includes a compare and sync function. Comes in a portable version that I use for file syncing at work when I need to.

[Andyd]

I didn't read all of the replies. I will just simply tell you what I do.
I am really meticulously anal about my files. From ripping to naming to tagging. I would go nuts if I lost all those insane hours of hard work.
I do all of this on my main computer (the one I am using now). All of my music (in flac and mp3) as well as my music videos are on it.

I don't do any raid or anything like that. Everything I do is manual.
So when I rip or acquire more music I plug in an external 2TB hard drive and use replicating software to copy anything new to it.
That is backup #1. (This is kept in a fireproof safe)... also has photos, documents etc. copied to it.

I then take that external to my home theater pc which also has a 23" touchscreen attached to be used as a jukebox.
Backup #2.

I have a MAME cabinet I built... It's primary use is arcade and video games. Pretty much never gets used for music, however, there is HDD space so I'll copy to that machine as well.
Redundant backup #3

My brother has a HTPC and a MAME machine as well.... I also keep him supplied with a copy of all of everything.
That's #4

Oh wait, there is another! Also keep optical copies on Blu Ray discs also kept in the safe. I believe that a second media type is always a good idea.... obviously this one is not updated as often as the HDD's.
NUMBER5

So there you have it... my music is alive and well in at least 5 places. In different types of media. In different physical locations. If my house catches fire I still have a HDD and discs in the safe. If my house explodes and turns to dust there is a copy at my brothers house.
A little overkill but also necessary since it gets used in multiple locations.

BTW: for the replication I use either Karen's Power Tools Replicator program or Sync Tool from Microsoft. Both free.