Topic: NEW: JRiver audio engine as an ASIO driver (Read 87083 times)

Matt · « **on:** July 19, 2013, 03:08:19 pm »

Overview
MC19 adds the ability to use the JRiver audio engine from other programs that can output using ASIO.

In a third-party program with ASIO support, you will see 'JRiver Media Center 19' show up as a possible output device. Here's an example:

When you start playback in the other program, MC will launch and start playback in the current zone.

Playback will go from the other program, into MC, and out the configured output in MC. All DSP processing is supported in MC.

When you stop playback in the other program, MC will also stop.

For best results, you will want to configure a small buffer size in Options > Audio to reduce latency. Also, the latency added by convolution may be too great to make this feature useful with convolution enabled.

Real-World Use Case
There are a few real-world test cases where this might be interesting.

I will describe one I have. I use MC as the pre-amplifier at home and connect directly to a power amplifier. Sounds played outside of MC do not sound good, because the channel routing, levels, etc. will be wrong (by a lot) since I depend on MC for this functionality.

I also have an older Roland Piano that's connected to the system by midi. I use a program called Pianoteq as the engine to make the piano sound. The JRiver ASIO driver allows me to output from Pianoteq through the home sound system and get JRSS, Room Correction, and other processing.

Latency
The latency of the ASIO input, IPC, buffering, and final output is quite low. With a fast system, the latency is low enough for piano playback, a latency sensitive operation. If you were to use this driver for video playback, it is likely that the total audio latency will be less than the latency of a typical home theater display.

WDM Driver (help wanted)
We hope to someday create a Windows driver (WDM) of the same thing so that any program can use this. This would open this feature up to games, web browsers, etc. If you're a WDM audio driver programmer and would be interested in a project, please email matt [at] jriver (dot) com.

jmone · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2013, 05:33:03 pm »

I'm looking forward to the WDM enhancement as I have few apps that support ASIO directly and this change would really mean MC replaces the Windows Audio Mixer!

kstich · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2013, 01:02:33 am »

Wow, cool. Keep up the good work!

jazid · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2013, 06:39:41 am »

Wow! This looks good. At the moment I use MC via WASAPI for music. If I listen to eg. a Youtube video it is horribly loud, and I have to rush over to the amp to turn it down. Will this route the sound from the video through MC automatically without futher involvement on my part so levels remain closer to the same, and then revert to WASAPI for music afterwards? If so this is reason enough in itself to upgrade quite aside from all the other cool new stuff! Many thanks and please advise?

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2013, 06:46:47 am »

Quote from: jazid on July 20, 2013, 06:39:41 am

Will this route the sound from the video through MC automatically without futher involvement on my part so levels remain closer to the same, and then revert to WASAPI for music afterwards?

It is possible to do this, using "Zone Switch". Please see the wiki topic on it.

jazid · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2013, 07:21:40 am »

Thanks for that. I am not too fast at this stuff, but as far as I can see the zones seem to refer to the output zones, is this right? I only output via USB to a single DAC. My problem is that music played using MC with the volume set appropriately is great, but if I try to watch some other content eg.youtube (which I watch in Firefox) it seems to bypass MC and output full volume to the DAC. The default file types are associated with MC but this seems to make no difference. I assume from what you are saying this can be changed but so far have not been able to find a way to do this. Please advise.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2013, 08:30:33 am »

You can set up one zone for audio and one for video, each with its own settings, and the switch will be automatic.

jazid · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2013, 09:06:31 am »

Magic! many thanks for that Jim

J-a-k-e · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2013, 08:28:17 pm »

Say I've got a multi-channel source like a game for instance that I want to output through my 2 channel dac, will I be able to apply dsp processing to the multi channel stream before the audio gets mixed to a 2 channel output?

I can do this at the moment with WASAPI loopback but it's a somewhat fiddly process. Once I set my asus card as the default audio device I have a zone configured with asio4all that has both my onboard sound and the 2 channel dac selected, media center effectively sees this as a 10 channel device. I also need to set the channel offset to 2, and have the output mode set on 7.1 so that I can get audio output to my dac as I see the parametric eq section only deals with the first 8 channels when it comes to channel ordering and such.

MikeThin · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2013, 08:32:56 am »

Matt,

This sounds very promising... But will it work with REW on the waterfall analysis? That alone would make v19 worth every penny!

Mike

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2013, 06:10:47 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 20, 2013, 08:30:33 am

You can set up one zone for audio and one for video, each with its own settings, and the switch will be automatic.

Yes but... Zone switch does not work to automatically switch zones on an audio track by track basis from PlayingNow.

My #1 feature request for v19 is savable eq settings that can be applied on a track by track basis to help tame the OMG bass on some albums vs most of my albums. I think of this like replay gain, but with user settable/savable eq curves.

SpeedD408 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2013, 02:37:23 pm »

While we are waiting for WDM... Would you consider adding a feature to allow loopback to be default and auto selected? Here is how I see it working in my system (I have a Lynx setup so no WDM is available).
- set JRiver mode to Loopback
- use a web browser and the audio get routed to JRiver via the loopback method to the ASIO output to the Lynx setup.
- Flip back to JRiver and watch a TV station and JRiver would start playing and flip audio as it does today.
- Stop the TV playback and JRiver would then flip back to Loopback mode to allow 3rd party apps to play sound.

So basically have it default to Loopback mode and auto flip back and forth depending if JRiver was sourcing the audio (if yes, take control, if no, flip to Loopback mode).

I would think that would hold me over until you have the WDM driver ready.

Thanks,

shoshaw · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2013, 07:34:02 am »

Is it possible to make MC an INPUT into a thrid party ASIO environment? I use a ASIO environment to host many audio applications and I'd like to set it up so the MC output is available as an input into the system.

Thanks!

JustinM · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2013, 09:35:13 am »

any luck finding an WDM audio driver programmer ??
I hope this comes to fruit..

jmone · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2013, 03:32:04 pm »

Quote from: JustinM on August 16, 2013, 09:35:13 am

any luck finding an WDM audio driver programmer ??
I hope this comes to fruit..

+1

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2013, 04:02:25 pm »

Not yet.

SpeedD408 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2013, 11:17:27 am »

How about adding my suggestion as an option above. This would at least make it easier to listen to Web browser based audio. I'm just asking for it to be an option.

gabeg · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2013, 08:08:26 pm »

I'm not sure I'm clear how this option works. Is this something I can use to have the media center actually process/play a file and then "serve" it to foobar to take advantage of how it streams via upnp?

6233638 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2013, 10:04:01 pm »

Quote from: gabeg on August 17, 2013, 08:08:26 pm

I'm not sure I'm clear how this option works. Is this something I can use to have the media center actually process/play a file and then "serve" it to foobar to take advantage of how it streams via upnp?

It's the other way around - MC19 now has its own ASIO driver which allows other applications to send audio to Media Center.

JustinM · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2013, 09:25:46 am »

Is there a way (in Win7) to check if mc19 'Registered' its Asio driver??
My apps don't give 'JRiver Asio' as an option...

audunth · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2013, 01:26:33 pm »

After searching around, I found a post on a forum stating you can use Winamp's linein plugin and ASIO out plugin to play sound from an application that doesn't support ASIO to an ASIO driver like the one in MC.

More info:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/printview.php?t=250625&start=0

Haven't tried this myself, but it seems like a possible solution while waiting for a WDM driver.

hamsi · « **Reply #21 on:** August 25, 2013, 01:32:21 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 19, 2013, 03:08:19 pm

Overview
MC19 adds the ability to use the JRiver audio engine from other programs that can output using ASIO.

Does it work reverse?
Can I listen music on my desktop PC, using the MC19 on my notebook?

NotebookPC will see the JRiver servermode on desktopPC as an ASIO driver?

rlebrette · « **Reply #22 on:** August 26, 2013, 07:25:03 am »

Hi dev team,

I've just started to play with MC 19 and its new feature the ASIO driver.
Is it expected that the internal volume is by-passed? I've played a playlist from Qobuz Desktop Player to JRiver and it was 100% loud! Once the Qobuz Player volume is set to a correct volume it's ok and really playing fine, but I was expecting that the JRiver volume will drive the whole thing which is not the case...

Configuration:
Qobuz Player ASIO -> MC 19.0.31 -> ASIO output -> RME Fireface UC

One of my goal with this new ASIO feature is to be able to use software like Room Equalizer Wizard or AudioLense to go through the JRiver Engine and check how it performs. But all these tools require recording via the same ASIO driver that the one used to generate sound. But the ASIO driver doesn't expose any ASIO input, is there any plan to, at least, make the JRiver driver pass through the virtual ASIO input to the physical ASIO input?

MikeThin · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2013, 01:58:16 am »

Quote from: rlebrette on August 26, 2013, 07:25:03 am

One of my goal with this new ASIO feature is to be able to use software like Room Equalizer Wizard or AudioLense to go through the JRiver Engine and check how it performs. But all these tools require recording via the same ASIO driver that the one used to generate sound. But the ASIO driver doesn't expose any ASIO input, is there any plan to, at least, make the JRiver driver pass through the virtual ASIO input to the physical ASIO input?

Yes indeed - I started a thread about this here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82811.0

Looks like we need to wait for the WDM version or pressure the REW authors to allow independent input/output devices.

7ryder · « **Reply #24 on:** August 28, 2013, 02:06:47 pm »

How can we defeat the MC start-up if it is not selected as a driver in other software? I use Sony Vegas Pro for audio/visual projects and even though I have not chosen to use the JRiver engine ASIO driver (I'm using the Benchmark_DAC2 ASIO driver which I also use in MC), MC starts up each time I start up Vegas Pro v12. I don't want MC open, so I have to close MC manually each time and it is getting annoying. Seems to me that this auto start-up should user select-able and not mandatory. Thanks.

Chris

rlebrette · « **Reply #25 on:** August 29, 2013, 01:23:35 am »

Quote from: MikeThin on August 27, 2013, 01:58:16 am

Yes indeed - I started a thread about this here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82811.0

Looks like we need to wait for the WDM version or pressure the REW authors to allow independent input/output devices.

I'm not convinced that a separated input/output option would help, I remember a discusstion from Bernt (author of Audiolense) who was explaining that the recordings are better if done via the same device.
With the already implemented support for the ASIO Live Input, I think it would not be so difficult to extend it to allow MC to passthrough the ASIO input channels.

rlebrette · « **Reply #26 on:** August 29, 2013, 01:47:36 am »

Quote from: 7ryder on August 28, 2013, 02:06:47 pm

How can we defeat the MC start-up if it is not selected as a driver in other software? I use Sony Vegas Pro for audio/visual projects and even though I have not chosen to use the JRiver engine ASIO driver (I'm using the Benchmark_DAC2 ASIO driver which I also use in MC), MC starts up each time I start up Vegas Pro v12. I don't want MC open, so I have to close MC manually each time and it is getting annoying. Seems to me that this auto start-up should user select-able and not mandatory. Thanks.

Chris

MC is the implementation of the JRiver ASIO driver, so as soon as a software iterates over the available ASIO drivers and check some informations, JRiver is loaded.
There's no other alternative except having a standalone engine or uninstalling the driver reference itself (removing the registry keys HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO\JRiver Media Center 19
and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\ASIO\JRiver Media Center 19 seem to be sufficient)

rlebrette · « **Reply #27 on:** August 29, 2013, 01:51:33 am »

Is somebody facing the sound volume level problem I'm facing?

7ryder · « **Reply #28 on:** August 29, 2013, 08:12:03 am »

Quote from: rlebrette on August 29, 2013, 01:47:36 am

MC is the implementation of the JRiver ASIO driver, so as soon as a software iterates over the available ASIO drivers and check some informations, JRiver is loaded.
There's no other alternative except having a standalone engine or uninstalling the driver reference itself (removing the registry keys HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO\JRiver Media Center 19
and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\ASIO\JRiver Media Center 19 seem to be sufficient)

Thanks for the tip, worked perfectly.

abrise · « **Reply #29 on:** September 03, 2013, 08:20:40 am »

Quote from: rlebrette on August 29, 2013, 01:51:33 am

Is somebody facing the sound volume level problem I'm facing?

I had the same problem but it is working now with the last version. I can use Qobuz desktop and asio jriver 19 output, JRiver wolume is now working. However I still cannot have convolution or any other DSP working.

Glossie · « **Reply #30 on:** September 04, 2013, 07:16:21 pm »

I am using a V-Link 192 USB-SPDIF converter between my laptop and DAC. When running MC18 I see both the V-Link 192 ASIO driver and MC19 ASIO driver as available devices. However when I run MC19, the V-Link 192 ASIO driver is the only ASIO driver available. I suspect this is not right. Should I not have the MC19 ASIO as an option? How can I fix this?

6233638 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 05, 2013, 12:03:30 am »

Quote from: Glossie on September 04, 2013, 07:16:21 pm

I am using a V-Link 192 USB-SPDIF converter between my laptop and DAC. When running MC18 I see both the V-Link 192 ASIO driver and MC19 ASIO driver as available devices. However when I run MC19, the V-Link 192 ASIO driver is the only ASIO driver available. I suspect this is not right. Should I not have the MC19 ASIO as an option? How can I fix this?

I'm guessing it's not there because there's no point in MC19 sending audio to itself.

Wungun · « **Reply #32 on:** September 05, 2013, 10:41:44 am »

this is a promising option....however, MC cant be configujred as an input thru asio...?
reason i ask, is i process my audio thru audiomulch as my setup is meant for r.a.c.e./ambiophonics.
currently i have to use virtual audio cable as my "input device" in mulch, and vac is setup as my output in MC.
and after processing, mulch sends the signal out to my soundcard.

i see i can setup MC, thru asio in mulch, but its not getting the signal...
on the output stage in mulch, MC shows 16 channels...? however in dsp/output format, its set for just 2 channels.

what i need is MC asio as my "sound in" im audiomulch, and my soundcard as my "sound out"

i notice there is a convulsion option in dsp...?
what file formets/types are supported?
thanks

Wungun · « **Reply #33 on:** September 05, 2013, 10:49:13 am »

oops...check that. i see it accepts a wav sample for convulsion. nice!

ashman5 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 05, 2013, 11:59:54 am »

Quote from: Wungun on September 05, 2013, 10:41:44 am

this is a promising option....however, MC cant be configujred as an input thru asio...?
reason i ask, is i process my audio thru audiomulch as my setup is meant for r.a.c.e./ambiophonics.
currently i have to use virtual audio cable as my "input device" in mulch, and vac is setup as my output in MC.
and after processing, mulch sends the signal out to my soundcard.

i see i can setup MC, thru asio in mulch, but its not getting the signal...
on the output stage in mulch, MC shows 16 channels...? however in dsp/output format, its set for just 2 channels.

what i need is MC asio as my "sound in" im audiomulch, and my soundcard as my "sound out"

i notice there is a convulsion option in dsp...?
what file formets/types are supported?
thanks

wungun, I've used your car audio guides several times and have mimic'd your setup partially. on the software front, I was able to ditch audiomulch (for VST verision of Bidule, used inside of JRiver) and use the loopback function of MC (in place of virtual audio cable). so now i have centrafuse>MC18/19>amps. all processing is performed within JRiver. works great. haven't got into convolution yet, but hope to soon.

Wungun · « **Reply #35 on:** September 05, 2013, 12:10:29 pm »

Quote from: ashman5 on September 05, 2013, 11:59:54 am

wungun, I've used your car audio guides several times and have mimic'd your setup partially. on the software front, I was able to ditch audiomulch (for VST verision of Bidule, used inside of JRiver) and use the loopback function of MC (in place of virtual audio cable). so now i have centrafuse>MC18/19>amps. all processing is performed within JRiver. works great. haven't got into convolution yet, but hope to soon.

i guess i should be flattered

im outta the car PC game. Wish i would of known about JRiver before today though! lol
Cap PC is now in my livingroom lol

Bidule huh?
So it creates a file to load in MC convolver? Or MC runs a convolver? Im lost...lol
Loopback?

ashman5 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 05, 2013, 12:48:51 pm »

Quote from: Wungun on September 05, 2013, 12:10:29 pm

i guess i should be flattered
im outta the car PC game. Wish i would of known about JRiver before today though! lol
Cap PC is now in my livingroom lol

Bidule huh?
So it creates a file to load in MC convolver? Or MC runs a convolver? Im lost...lol
Loopback?

Loopback makes MC act like VAC. MC intercepts the audio from any DirectShow type program such as Centrafuse.

MC is also capable of hosting VSTs, and Bidule is a VST host that loads into MC as a VST...(head explodes). This allows for loading and use of multichannel VSTs like audiomulch. Works very well and keeps the processing inside of MC.

Wungun · « **Reply #37 on:** September 05, 2013, 01:39:03 pm »

Thanks for explaining that...
Found a free ambio vst plugin and loaded it straight into MC.
It'll take some tuning, but WAY less resource overhead.
I like!

rlebrette · « **Reply #38 on:** September 06, 2013, 09:52:13 am »

Quote from: abrise on September 03, 2013, 08:20:40 am

I had the same problem but it is working now with the last version. I can use Qobuz desktop and asio jriver 19 output, JRiver wolume is now working. However I still cannot have convolution or any other DSP working.

I'm still trying to have this working, but without any luck. I use the latest version (19.0.36), I select JRiver ASIO in Qobuz desktop and play some music, the sound is not output in JRiver but directly in the ASIO driver of the sound card, the Audio Path is not showing any activity. This explain why I get full sound level.
I've seen that some logs have been added to the program for the ASIO driver, where can I found them?

Matt · « **Reply #39 on:** September 06, 2013, 09:54:46 am »

Quote from: rlebrette on September 06, 2013, 09:52:13 am

I'm still trying to have this working, but without any luck. I use the latest version (19.0.36), I select JRiver ASIO in Qobuz desktop and play some music, the sound is not output in JRiver but directly in the ASIO driver of the sound card, the Audio Path is not showing any activity. This explain why I get full sound level.
I've seen that some logs have been added to the program for the ASIO driver, where can I found them?

It sounds like the other program isn't actually using the JRiver ASIO driver.

rlebrette · « **Reply #40 on:** September 06, 2013, 10:06:23 am »

Quote from: Matt on September 06, 2013, 09:54:46 am

It sounds like the other program isn't actually using the JRiver ASIO driver.

That's what I was thinking after investigations, but the message from abise makes me think that he was able to do it...
I'm going to test with another player just to check.
By the way, where can I find the ASIO driver logs?

Matt · « **Reply #41 on:** September 06, 2013, 10:08:05 am »

Quote from: rlebrette on September 06, 2013, 10:06:23 am

That's what I was thinking after investigations, but the message from abise makes me think that he was able to do it...
I'm going to test with another player just to check.
By the way, where can I find the ASIO driver logs?

It's part of the regular JRiver logs:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

It will use "CJRiverASIODriver" in the log.

rlebrette · « **Reply #42 on:** September 06, 2013, 10:09:14 am »

Quote from: Matt on September 06, 2013, 10:08:05 am

It's part of the regular JRiver logs:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Logging

It will use "CJRiverASIODriver" in the log.

Ok, thanks, will give feedback.

rlebrette · « **Reply #43 on:** September 06, 2013, 10:54:17 am »

Finally after some tests on different configurations, MC ASIO driver is working fine, but when using "Qobuz Desktop" even when selecting MC ASIO as the output it doesn't work. On a computer having a native ASIO it outs directly to the sound card ASIO, on a computer without ASIO it hangs.
I'm just currious to understand why "Qobuz Desktop" expects from the ASIO driver, and what MC is not "correctly" exposing... Qobuz becoming one of the most important HD and streamed music provider in europe (they are coming in US next year), I hope we will able to solve that.

abrise · « **Reply #44 on:** September 07, 2013, 04:57:32 am »

Quote from: rlebrette on September 06, 2013, 10:54:17 am

Finally after some tests on different configurations, MC ASIO driver is working fine, but when using "Qobuz Desktop" even when selecting MC ASIO as the output it doesn't work. On a computer having a native ASIO it outs directly to the sound card ASIO, on a computer without ASIO it hangs.
I'm just currious to understand why "Qobuz Desktop" expects from the ASIO driver, and what MC is not "correctly" exposing... Qobuz becoming one of the most important HD and streamed music provider in europe (they are coming in US next year), I hope we will able to solve that.

Sorry to have uncorrectly reported that it was working for me , i now confirm your above comment. Qobuz desktop was in fact using Asio4all when set to use jriver asio. I removed asio4all and get nothing through now .

duskdrums · « **Reply #45 on:** September 10, 2013, 06:14:28 pm »

Am I correct in assuming that this will not work if we use ASIO as the audio output in the playing zone in MC? If I set a new zone in MC using WASAPI event style it will work.

This is not 100% ideal, as I am using an ASUS card which require sample rate etc to be set in the ASUS control panel unless you are using ASIO. It isn't a deal-breaker, however, as any audio i'm likely to be playing through external programs are not high sample rate files (fidelify, for example). But i wanted to check to make sure that the behavior whereby MC loads and tries to play an IPC named file but no sound comes out is the expected behavior.

Also, if this is the case, I will create a new WASPI zone used only for the ASIO engine. Any suggestions on what to put as an expression in zoneswitch to ensure that the waspi zone is activated when using the engine and not activated otherwise?

Thanks!

JimH · « **Reply #46 on:** September 10, 2013, 06:25:33 pm »

This feature is ASIO input, not output. So you can still use ASIO in MC normally. This feature just makes MC's audio engine available to another program that supports ASIO, so that it can output to MC's engine.

duskdrums · « **Reply #47 on:** September 12, 2013, 08:43:00 pm »

Yeah, sorry, I was unclear. The problem I was having was when using the feature to go from fidelify --> (ASIO feature) --> MC --> (normal ASIO setting in MC) --> Asus Xonar STX. If i use the feature to go from fidelify to MC but then change my output method to WASAPI, then the Ipc file "plays" fine and I get sound from fidelify to MC and then out to the sound card. But this is not ideal because using WASAPI to control the Xonar STX means that I do not bypass the settings panel for the Xonar (which can be bypassed when using ASIO as the output method in MC).

Have other people not had problems using the new feature when they also use ASIO out to their output device? That is, can others use both the ASIO input feature and ASIO as their output device?

hamsi · « **Reply #48 on:** September 18, 2013, 06:14:14 am »

Quote from: hamsi on August 25, 2013, 01:32:21 pm

Does it work reverse?
Can I listen music on my desktop PC, using the MC19 on my notebook?

NotebookPC will see the JRiver servermode on desktopPC as an ASIO driver?

May I listen music through my desktopPC's speaker, when I play on my notebook by choosing the ASIO driver (JRiver audio engine) of desktopPC?

I want to get rid of zones, different libraries and mediaserver.

eddyshere · « **Reply #49 on:** September 18, 2013, 06:57:51 am »

Any news on the wdm version of this ? This would be very helpfull for external bluray players such as tmt i use for full menu support with MC and an asio DAC...

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: NEW: JRiver audio engine as an ASIO driver (Read 87083 times)

MikeThin

rlebrette

MikeThin

rlebrette

rlebrette

rlebrette

rlebrette

rlebrette

rlebrette

rlebrette