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[glynor]

So, here's the deal.

My Denon AVR-591 crapped out last night, suddenly.  This was the second time.  The first time was within warranty by a few months, and they repaired it (I think I even got my original one back), but this time it is out of warranty.  So, I'll consider getting it repaired, but based on the history and the (probable) cost that isn't likely.

What else I have:

1. A HTPC on HDMI 1
2. A hardly-ever-used AppleTV on HDMI2
3. A never-used FM antenna.
4. A nice Panny plasma, and mediocre Klipsch speakers and powered sub (5.1, little wall-attached channels).
5. I control the setup with a Firefly remote and Girder.  It'd be nice to have a network API too (for iOS control and other nifty stuff), and a serial port/usb that would work with Girder would be awesome.
6. A little living room.

I have literally no other components.  No cable box, no Xbox, nothing.  All media consumption is done on the HTPC, except for extremely occasional use of the AppleTV (mostly Airplay).  I won't ever use any "plug in a USB drive" features.  I might use a "plug in an iPad" feature once in a blue moon, but mostly for charging purposes.  Airplay would be kinda cool, but I can already do that on my AppleTV, so meh.

I don't want to break the bank, and the HTPC doesn't have any decent sound card (just Realtek onboard audio), but has a nice video card with a nice HDMI out.  With that in mind, I'm unlikely to go the route of a separate multichannel amp, but I'm willing to listen to ideas.  If I have to lose HDMI ports, I don't really care that much about the AppleTV If I can get something like a Blackmagic Design intensity card for the HTPC and rig it up that way (but I'm not sure about HDCP -- I should just test it).  That would be more convenient for my control scheme.

I want some kind of Audyssey-style automatic room correction with a microphone.  I'm willing to listen to ideas about doing this via MC if it is automatic, but then I lose it on the not-very-often used AppleTV.  I'm also concerned about games, which I do use on the HTPC.

If it doesn't break the bank, I'd like to have 7.1 support, as at some point (now further down the road because of this expense), I'd like to get better front-main floor standers of some kind, and then I have the extra two little ones for the other channels.

I could probably go as high as $500, but $300 would be much more comfortable.

I'm too tired and lazy to troll AVSForum without guidance, so I'm whining here.  Go!

[JimH]

If they repaired it once, I would ask again.  It was just defective from the start.

[glynor]

I intend to call and ask, at least.  But I'm not hopeful, and I'm dubious about that taking a month or more (with backordered parts and who knows).  Last time, when it was still under warranty, it took around 3 weeks (if I remember correctly, maybe 4 or 2 or something), and that was over a year ago (when parts were probably more available).  And there's the shipping cost (and the hassle).

I don't know.  It stinks.  I certainly don't want to blow money if they'll do it free, I guess, but even then... Now I'm skeptical of it (and Denon in general, though I don't think that's fair, I probably just got a lemon by luck).

I'm looking at the Yamaha RX-V673 (last year's model) and it looks nice, and it is available on Amazon (with Prime, so it could be here by Monday if I go quick), for $400.  That's tempting, but I'd love some feedback.  And I guess I'll call Denon support tomorrow and do my sob-story routine.

[pcstockton]

Glynor,

At that price point you are going to find any world beaters.  I would go with either a Denon or a Yamaha 5.1 that has the features you want.

The 5.1 are FAR less expensive these days as they are pimping the 7.1 and higher units.

Anything with Airplay will be more expensive so ditch that if possible.  As you mentioned you can always the AppleTV.

Integra is another "budget friendly" brand to look at.

Anything made nowadays will have at least two HDMI inputs.

Your best bet might be a lightly used demo/floor model at your local AV/Hifi showroom.  It is always nice to support the little guys.  They are always needing to dump last year's units for the latest and greatest.  I scored my Energy 5.1 speaker set-up this way.  Saved at least 40%.  Never used but had been taken out the boxes to display.

Good luck!  Let us know what you get.

Cheers!
Patrick

[pcstockton]

I bet you can find a RX-V375 for under $300 brand new.  Unless you need the 7.2 action.

[glynor]

Unless you need the 7.2 action.

I don't need the 7.2 action now, and probably won't for some time.  But, it would be really nice to have the option to expand to 7.1 in the future if I replace the mains (or use the second set in the kitchen or something as a second zone).  I don't really need 7-channels in my little living room now, but we're not going to live here forever.  My next place will have a larger living room (we have a very nice baby grand piano, worth a substantial amount more than our two cars combined, that is jammed in an extra bedroom right now, and it needs to come out in public).  I'm hoping whatever I buy gives me many years of usability, so that's worth spending a bit more.

Of course, I was hoping for the same thing with the Denon 3 years ago.  The 591 was 7.1 compatible, it just had line level outputs (no amp) on those channels (and it could also use them as a separate zone, I think, but I'm too lazy to look it up).  I figured if I ever replaced the mains, I'd just grab a small same-wattage stereo amp and mount it to studs in the basement.  Not perfect, but it'd do for a while.  Grrrrr....  

My price target is really limited by (other than not wanting to blow a bunch of loot on it) a few factors:

1. My speakers aren't that great.  I don't remember the model, but they are the rough equivalent of this set, but from 7-9 years ago or so (middle-of-the-tiers 5.1 "home theater" set).  The sub died and has been replaced with something nicer, but I'm still using the rest of the set.  They sound alright to my ears.

2. You know, money.  Which is why I don't have nicer speakers.

3. I have a nice set of studio monitors in my basement man cave, if I'm feeling particularly nerdly anyway.  Or, I would have that option if I could get the RAID box out of the room (which is coming, hopefully, and was a higher priority job than this for saving #2 above, along with other projects, until the stereo broke).

4. Anymore?  Other than kids shows, my wife and I can almost never actually watch something we want to watch without "midnight mode" turned on anyway.  We can listen to music loud (my daughter is particularly fond of Crystal Castles), but she won't tolerate us watching many of "our shows" when she's awake (and we don't want her watching TV all the time anyway).

[glynor]

Your best bet might be a lightly used demo/floor model at your local AV/Hifi showroom.

Sigh.  The closest decent AV showroom is probably a three hour drive (one way) away.  There is one closer, but I think they're pretty small-time (might be worth meandering over there though).  There's also a botique shop around, but they're ultra-high-end (I think) for the Rockefellers and Dick Wolfs of the world (both of whom are my "neighbors" here).  I think it is "by appointment only".

[Matt]

(we have a very nice baby grand piano, worth a substantial amount more than our two cars combined, that is jammed in an extra bedroom right now, and it needs to come out in public)

I'll trade you my amplifier for your piano.  Win-win?

[glynor]

I'll trade you my amplifier for your piano.  Win-win?

We'd use the amp more.   

But, alas, you'd have to get here to take it, and fight my wife when you got here.  I met you.  You're not a small man.  But I'd put my money on my wife.  Swedes, you know, and it was her grandmother's, so that's serious business.  Besides... You don't want it.  It's a little something like Jim's jag.  Looks beautiful, doesn't run very well, and is a hole in my guest bedroom where I dump money.

Otherwise...

Almost all the rest of the crap I mentioned is all gravy.  One thing I do care about, though, a bit, is UI.  If I have to set the darn thing up, it is going to be annoying.  I'll only have to do it once (or once a year or so, because they always seem to somehow get reset eventually, or something changes), but less pain here would be greatly appreciated.  On screen GUI, if it doesn't suck terribly bad, would be nicer than not.

But, it does always feel dumb to even have the freaking thing, honestly, since it just sits there on HDMI 1 and almost never switches.  I'd prefer to have the AppleTV piped into my HTPC (and I think I'm motivated to actually do that now).  In a perfect world, I'd just have a small Extron HDMI switch, an HD Fury (to strip any crap out of the HDMI), and a Blackmagic Design intensity (or something similar that can play full quality HD in a window on my desktop without too much hassle with an HDMI-in).  Then I'd never need to switch inputs, and I could just have buttons on the remote that open windows (hopefully in MC) on the PC.

But I also don't really ever see myself going with a real high-end discreet DAC in my living room (I'd want a multichannel one and... meh).

And I play games and occasionally watch content in the browser (HBO GO and whatnot), so relying on MC for stuff like room correction is a tough sell.  Now, if Matt could work magic and build a DirectSound compatible version of the "virtual soundcard magic widget", then that problem would be alleviated, of course.  But until then...

So, going the pure amplifier and using MC for the receiver functions is tempting... So very tempting.  But I feel like with the rest of the conditions, it isn't worth the investment.

[jmone]

I have a couple of Yami's and the good think is that they are network connectable and I use their Android App to do stuff like turn on Zone 2 and select inputs etc (as well as Vol).  This is the benefit of 7.1, you can use the extra 2ch to drive an analogue source to these.  I use the 5.1 from HDMI for the HT setup, and drive these extra 2ch from the same PC via the analogue outs.

[glynor]

I have a couple of Yami's and the good think is that they are network connectable and I use their Android App to do stuff like turn on Zone 2 and select inputs etc (as well as Vol).  This is the benefit of 7.1, you can use the extra 2ch to drive an analogue source to these.  I use the 5.1 from HDMI for the HT setup, and drive these extra 2ch from the same PC via the analogue outs.

Exactly what I was thinking, in the back of my head.

Hmmmm... Maybe I could really replace those mains with something nicer, and then have kitchen audio easily enabled.  I saw they had the app.  How is it?  Junk?  Decent?  Middling?  I wonder if it is driven by a REST API?

You know, junk like that.

[glynor]

Are there any that have RS232 control that aren't crazy expensive?

I'd really love to get away from my IR blaster setup for mute and volume control (they're laggy as heck).  My regret when I bought the Denon (other than, you know, it dying twice) was that I didn't spring for the "pro" model with the RS232 port.

Or, can I do cool stuff with HDMI CEC now with those PC adapters, maybe?  USB control for any of them?

[jmone]

Exactly what I was thinking, in the back of my head.

Hmmmm... Maybe I could really replace those mains with something nicer, and then have kitchen audio easily enabled.  I saw they had the app.  How is it?  Junk?  Decent?  Middling?  I wonder if it is driven by a REST API?

You know, junk like that.

The app is pretty good (I use the Andriod one) and you can
- Select what Receiver to control (I have 2)
- Power it On and Off (well On and Standby)
- Vol and Mute
- Inputs
- Zones
- and stuff I don't use like change DSP / Scenes

Works well as long as you have a good WiFi connection.

The Receivers also show up in MC as a Zone but to push content to the Receiver you must first switch the Receivers Input to "PC" else it will fail and you can only push Audio.  For that reason I use my HTPC's HDMI and Analogue output as two zones in MC connected to two zones in the Receiver.  I have a A3000 and a V1067 which will be more than your budget and I'm not sure at what point they include the LAN connections in their range (they are physical ethernet not WiFi).

[apgood]

Anthem MRX avr's have great sound and probably the best room correction system available in an avr.

They do have rs232 controls, zone 2, but the current models don't have iPhone and android apps etc.. But the new models coming out in a month or two will...

[glynor]

I'm not sure at what point they include the LAN connections in their range (they are physical ethernet not WiFi).

For current models, the RX-V475 (which is pretty low-end, $449 list) and up have it.  The older RX-V6-series I mentioned above certainly does as well.

Anthem MRX avr's have great sound and probably the best room correction system available in an avr.

They do have rs232 controls, zone 2, but the current models don't have iPhone and android apps etc.. But the new models coming out in a month or two will...

Thanks!  That's too bad, though, as I don't want to wait a month or two, if I buy one (I might as well wait for my Denon to get repaired then).  I'll still check them out, though.

EDIT:  Any place I can check pricing online for US shipping?  Also, looks like the current lineup came out way back in 2010, so that's a little... Well, nothing really wrong with it, but that's almost as-old as my current Denon.

[glynor]

Looks like all of the network-capable Yamaha's do support network control via some kind of API.

Which might mean I need to either upgrade Girder to the pro version, or build my own wrapper for the API, but it should be possible.  I'm not sure how responsive volume control will be with that, though.  That's my biggest problem with the IR blaster setup I'm using now.  The volume control is pretty laggy (I've tweaked it into submission, but it is still fairly clunky).

[mojave]

Sherbourn was merged with Emotiva and they are selling off their existing gear. The five year warranty will still be honored. Their SR-8100 receiver has RS-232 control and other features you are looking for.

I've helped several friends/family buy receivers from shoponkyo.com. It is a direct sales outlet of Onkyo. The [ulr=https://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-NR626&modelid=71&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1]TX-NR626[/url] is very full featured for $399. Onkyo has their own control app for iOS/Android to control the receiver. A friend uses the oRemote app instead and really likes it. 

You can also easily create your own control interface that integrates JRemote by using iRule. It supports Onkyo and other receivers. I've seen an iRule demonstration on a friend's system and it controlled lights, projector, equipment, and HTPC with just an iPhone. I think iRule is way ahead of Girder for any kind of control.

 

[DarkPenguin]

Yamaha is junk.  Isn't there a marantz or onkyo that fits your budget?

[Matt]

Yamaha is junk.

Sound of axe grinding.

But what do you think of Ponder?


(Sorry Glynor for providing nothing of value to this thread.  Hopefully you're used to it from me.)

[glynor]

marantz or onkyo that fits your budget?

Dunno.  You tell me.

I was a bit leery of Onkyo, though.  I know they used-to-be fantastic for the price, and are still typically much more feature-rich for the price than the competition now.  But, when I was shopping for the Denon, I found a ton of reports for the Onkyo's of that particular model year that were "worked 6 months, failed, repaired, worked another 5, failed again, rinse-wash-repeat.

Of course, that's the biggest reason I bought the Denon and not the Onkyo, and now look what happened to me.

Still, though... Once burned, now I'm doubly-concerned about QC and reliability.

[glynor]

I think iRule is way ahead of Girder for any kind of control.

Girder pisses me off regularly, and I'd love a replacement.

Using only iOS to control my gear, though, is not an option.  I really like my Firefly.  I want buttons for that purpose (and I don't have a spare iPod Touch that can always stay there for that purpose).

But, setting up the current open source alternatives seemed like a LOT of work for very little gain (and might, in the end, be just as flaky as Girder).

[mojave]

If you sign up for the free shoponkyo club membership, then the TX-NR515 is only $259. It doesn't have RS-232, but spend some of the money saved on a control app.

[DarkPenguin]

Sound of axe grinding.

But what do you think of Ponder?


(Sorry Glynor for providing nothing of value to this thread.  Hopefully you're used to it from me.)

I stand by my tower of dead yamaha components.  If you buy yamaha be sure that you don't need it to work an hour past the end of its warranty.

My vision turns red whenever I see the name "Ponder".  I open my sunroof and boo when I drive past their HQ on my way to work.

[mojave]

Using only iOS to control my gear, though, is not an option.  I really like my Firefly.  I want buttons for that purpose (and I don't have a spare iPod Touch that can always stay there for that purpose).

It works with Android, too, so most phones can be used as the controller. You can also buy a really cheap receiver and use money saved for a tablet/software. Four people I know are using the refurbished ones from Onkyo and have had them 3+ years. Only one had an issue (which was a problem the day he got it) and Onkyo shipped a replacement the same day before he even returned the bad one.

Requiring compatibility with the Firefly is like the time when my parents did a complete bathroom remodel, but required that everything match the bath mat that my mom already owned and liked.   There might be an easier solution that you like even better.

I also use just a keyboard for control of my HTPC. If using JRiver as a the preamp/processor, then you just need to turn the receiver on and use Theater View for everything except when you have an external source. Maybe you could install the Onkyo Android app on the PC using something like Bluestacks and still control with the keyboard.

I've also setup a Logitech Harmony remote for 3 HTPC/receiver systems. It is much easier than Girder and easy to use. However, you still need to pick up the keyboard when you want to type/browse the web. With the Harmony or iRule, behavior is usage based rather than device based. For example, my co-worker can press "Watch Movie" on his Harmony and the TV, Receiver, and HTPC will all turn on. The receiver is set to the correct input and settings. The volume control on the remote can be set for the receiver while fast forward, play, pause, etc. can be set for the HTPC/JRiver. If they want to watch an old VHS, then they just press "Watch VHS" and the VCR turns on, the receiver switches inputs, and the TV can change aspect ratios. Pressing off once turns off all devices.

[6233638]

But, it does always feel dumb to even have the freaking thing, honestly, since it just sits there on HDMI 1 and almost never switches.  I'd prefer to have the AppleTV piped into my HTPC (and I think I'm motivated to actually do that now).

Have you considered using Reflector as an AirPlay receiver to replace the AppleTV? (I occasionally use it for AirPlay mirroring and it seems to do the job)

Yamaha is junk.  Isn't there a marantz or onkyo that fits your budget?

Funny, I would have said the same about Onkyo.

[glynor]

Requiring compatibility with the Firefly is like the time when my parents did a complete bathroom remodel, but required that everything match the bath mat that my mom already owned and liked.   There might be an easier solution that you like even better.

Maybe.  I've looked into (repeatedly) replacing my Firefly with something else.  Not that I really need to, yet, but they've been discontinued and the one I have will break eventually.  Nothing out there that I've found meets my (reasonably modest, I think) requirements:

1. Physical buttons.
2. RF, Bluetooth, or some kind of non-directional line-of-sight-only control.
3. Not a gazillion dollars (the Firefly was like $30 and is wonderful).

Keep in mind, I already own Girder, and already have everything programmed for it (including GMLs for MC and Firefox and everything else I use).  It was reasonably painless to get it set up with my Denon and USB-UIRT as well.  My main issues with it are that it is a bit crashy (it crashes maybe 2 times a month at random), and performance isn't super-good for IR-blasted commands.  Otherwise, it works perfectly, and I know how to use it.

I do already have a nice wireless keyboard and two mice for my HTPC (an Apple Wireless keyboard, a Logitech mouse, and one of the sweet Logitech trackpads).  The remote is what we use for most TV watching and controlling Theater View.  And, it can turn everything on/off with a simple button-press.  I use it to peruse the web sometimes too (I have a mod for Firefox that puts it into "mobile mode" so it gets iPhone compatible pages, and then you can navigate a surprising array of sites easily with just up/down/left/right/enter and escape).

I also do use a few iOS apps to control the HTPC (mostly AirMouse).  The issues with this, for me, are:

a. There is an absolute FIRM requirement that ALL major HTPC functions (on/off/volume/mute and launching key applications like MC) MUST be accessible from a single remote.
b. I like physical buttons on a remote.  I'd probably get past this if it worked really well, but I really do like being able to control the system without looking, in the dark, by touch.
c. More importantly, I want something that "belongs" to the HTPC.  My wife and I both have iPhones, and we have an iPad, but they're mine.  When we leave, they leave.  I want something that visitors can use when we're not at home.

So, to meet C above, I'd have to essentially buy an Android or iOS device specifically for room control.  Likewise, the Harmony remotes are all expensive and IR (they do have things you can do to make them RF, but they seemed clunky).  Line-of-sight-only is an absolute dealbreaker for me.  We regularly use the remote in the kitchen, at the dining room table, and all over the place.  The WAF of changing this stuff is pretty low.  I've had the Firefly (or similar setups) now for around 10 years.  The WAF is high and backing out would be very, very difficult.

In a perfect world, I'd have an AMX or Crestron or something, with a nice custom-built control with Lutron controllers for the lights and the whole bit.  But I'm not spending $30k on room control.  I live in a little 3 bedroom Cape Cod house.  

[glynor]

Have you considered using Reflector as an AirPlay receiver to replace the AppleTV? (I occasionally use it for AirPlay mirroring and it seems to do the job)

Over and over and over.

I probably will.  The main additional things I like about the AppleTV are:  HBO GO and iTunes rentals.  This happens incredibly rarely, but every so often there is something specific that we just want to watch right now, that we don't have (maybe you're all set to watch an episode of a show, and the DVR recording of that episode borked itself, for example).  Of course, I could do both of those things from the HTPC, but they have terrible "10-foot" UI's.  The AppleTV is convenient for these occasional needs.  I don't use AirPlay super often, but one of the main reasons I don't use it more is that I have to switch inputs, which is annoying.  Reflector would solve that, which is why I've almost bought it a bunch of times.

Does using AirPlay in Reflector work decently for video?  Does audio and video stay in sync?  I regularly AirPlay video podcasts from my phone to the TV (that is, probably, my main use of AirPlay).  I've used the trial of it before, but that was a long while ago (when it first came out) and the A/V Sync was a bit iffy.

[glynor]

I stand by my tower of dead yamaha components.  If you buy yamaha be sure that you don't need it to work an hour past the end of its warranty.

Hmmm... That's disconcerting.

Is there anyone out there making reliable gear anymore?

[pcstockton]

Vocal minority......  I have had the same Yamaha for 8 years, use it everyday, no problems at all, ever.

-p

[mwillems]

Hmmm... That's disconcerting.

Is there anyone out there making reliable gear anymore?

I haven't been in the integrated receiver market for a few years (I just have power amps), but Harman Kardon has a rep for quality, and seems to make well-reviewed gear in (or near) your price range.  Two of my friends bought HK receivers three or four years back, and they're both very happy with them.  If you decide to look into straight amps instead, I have some recommendations I can personally backstop.

[6233638]

Does using AirPlay in Reflector work decently for video?  Does audio and video stay in sync?  I regularly AirPlay video podcasts from my phone to the TV (that is, probably, my main use of AirPlay).  I've used the trial of it before, but that was a long while ago (when it first came out) and the A/V Sync was a bit iffy.

I don't recall any A/V sync issues, and it seemed to work as well as any other device - though it's mostly just used for mirroring the iPad or one of the laptops to a TV, to share what's on the screen rather than have people crowd around the device.

I actually had an AppleTV (wired up via ethernet) and ended up replacing that with Reflector, as the quality seemed to be just as good. When streaming videos, AirPlay is really just sending an MP4 file over the network. But I will say that my use is infrequent.

Is there anyone out there making reliable gear anymore?

People seem more concerned about price, and are happier buying several cheap devices, than spending the money on one high quality device which is more reliably built.

You will find some people that long for the days when everything used to be built like a tank and was more reliable, but you won't find many people willing to pay what things used to cost back when that was the case.

[glynor]

If you decide to look into straight amps instead, I have some recommendations I can personally backstop.

Like I said... I'm curious and willing to listen.

But probably not.  At least not now.

[glynor]

I don't recall any A/V sync issues, and it seemed to work as well as any other device

Alright.  Sold.   

[glynor]

People seem more concerned about price, and are happier buying several cheap devices, than spending the money on one high quality device which is more reliably built.

You will find some people that long for the days when everything used to be built like a tank and was more reliable, but you won't find many people willing to pay what things used to cost back when that was the case.

True.  I'm one of those people, to some degree.  I don't need it to last 20 years, but three isn't enough for something that was ~$600 new (and used like it was).  I'd think it should last, at least, 7-10.  My ~$200 AIWA piece-of-crap bookshelf stereo lasted 15 or so (till it took a nosedive), and that had to survive my college-years apartment (which was rough on both me and the electronics in the place).

The problem is, though, that nowadays spending more seems to have no correlation with actually getting quality parts.  There are exceptions (Extron stuff is still built like tanks), but... I don't know.  Sigh.  I'm going to call Denon support now and see what they say.

[InflatableMouse]

You might also look around for an 'independent' shop to have it repaired.

Often cheaper and a better job. At least that's my experience.

I'm just thinking you're going to spend a few hundred bucks and not gain anything, except that it works again. Personally, if I would replace something I would want it to be better than what I had. So, I don't know, spend less and get it fixed instead?

[6233638]

True.  I'm one of those people, to some degree.  I don't need it to last 20 years, but three isn't enough for something that was ~$600 new (and used like it was).  I'd think it should last, at least, 7-10.  My ~$200 AIWA piece-of-crap bookshelf stereo lasted 15 or so (till it took a nosedive), and that had to survive my college-years apartment (which was rough on both me and the electronics in the place).

That's funny - my parents have an old Aiwa stereo that is probably at least 20 years old now, and still going strong too.

You don't think "quality product" when you hear "Aiwa" but it's lasted longer than just about any other piece of AV gear we've had since - though I think the Trinitrons would still have been working today if they had not been replaced with flat panels. We had one of them in use for at least 20 years too. Actually, my sister may still have it at her place hooked up to a DVD player, now that I think about it.

The problem is, though, that nowadays spending more seems to have no correlation with actually getting quality parts.  There are exceptions (Extron stuff is still built like tanks), but... I don't know.  Sigh.  I'm going to call Denon support now and see what they say.

That's very true. These days it's hard to know whether spending more money is just getting you new features so you now have expensive, poorly made hardware, or if you're actually buying something that is built to a higher standard.
Sony's highest-end stuff still seems to be built like it used to be, in my experience, though I'm not sure if that still applies now. It's been three years since I bought anything of theirs (my current television) and that was right around the time they started focusing on reducing costs so they could stay in business. I think the high-end stuff is still built in Japan though - but that's obviously far outside the budget you're looking at.

You might also look around for an 'independent' shop to have it repaired.
Often cheaper and a better job. At least that's my experience.

I'm just thinking you're going to spend a few hundred bucks and not gain anything, except that it works again. Personally, if I would replace something I would want it to be better than what I had. So, I don't know, spend less and get it fixed instead?

It's certainly worth considering - I'm always in preference of a repair rather than a replacement, but sometimes you're just throwing good money after bad.

[FastKayak]

Amazon is clearing out several xx13 Denon models in your price range.  At the high end is the Denon AVR-1913 which has everything you wanted. Other models probably do too.  (I own the 1913 so I know it's guts). There are free Android control apps for some (all?) of these models once you wire them to Ethernet.

FastKayak / Larry

[MrC]

I just sold my old, trusty Denon AVC-3030.  It was 1 month shy of 20 years old, and I retired it about 6 months ago.  It cost about $1300, and I got a whopping $60 for it.  It had plenty of clean power, but was pretty anemic by today encoding standards, supporting as high as Dolby Pro Logic.  Now to get rid of the Snell IIe's which are pushing 23 years.

[glynor]

See, now... I'm considering a Marantz SR5008.

It looks pretty darn nice.

Amazon is clearing out several xx13 Denon models in your price range.  At the high end is the Denon AVR-1913 which has everything you wanted. Other models probably do too.  (I own the 1913 so I know it's guts). There are free Android control apps for some (all?) of these models once you wire them to Ethernet.

It doesn't have RS232.  Any of those do?

[drmimosa]

I think you will like the Yamaha RX line. I've got a friend who ran through 4 or 5 HDMI/Airplay receivers before settling on this line, and it's been running steady with no problems for a few years now.

It also compared pretty favorable to my fancy 2010 Peachtree Nova, which made me scratch my own head and wonder how I could have spent the price difference...never walk into an audio store with money in your pocket, lesson learned.

Good luck!

Also, thanks for all your advice on this forum, your frequent posts and don't go unappreciated!!

[6233638]

See, now... I'm considering a Marantz SR5008.

Keep in mind that 4K passthrough ≠ HDMI 2.0 passthrough.

This is really the biggest issue with AVRs right now, and one of the reasons I've always been hesitant to buy them. (that, and my experience with a few HTIB kits put me off the idea of surround altogether)
One might completely satisfy all your audio requirements, but you need to replace the whole unit if you want the latest HDMI features. (3D, 4K at 60Hz, dynamic lip-sync correction etc.)

Sure, there are other problems when you separate audio and video (trying to get sync right is a huge pain) but that's part of the reason I moved to using an external DAC rather than continuing to use HDMI for audio. (though I only had stereo to worry about)

[jmone]

Hmmm... That's disconcerting.

Is there anyone out there making reliable gear anymore?

YMMV - I've had 5 Yami receivers and never had a failure.  One of them had an early HDMI implementation that would not pass 24p and they upgraded me to the following model for free.  My mate has had 2 Marantz fail so far and is going to get a Yami. 

I tend to believe that some models are dogs and others stars within these big brands but I would not consider any of these brands themselves junk.  I'm sure the lower end stuff from all the mfr is junkish as they have to be made to a price point.

[jmone]

For the RC - what about one of the Logitech Harmony Remotes that supports BT as well as IR, or if they are too expensive (which they are), just an IR extender and a stnd Logitech Remote?  The one device controls all my equipment just fine (incl MC).

[glynor]

For the RC - what about one of the Logitech Harmony Remotes that supports BT as well as IR, or if they are too expensive (which they are), just an IR extender and a stnd Logitech Remote?  The one device controls all my equipment just fine (incl MC).

That's basically what I settled on last time I looked.  I don't like the extenders (I realize there are decent ones made just for the Harmonys, but that seems like it is just asking for trouble).

But I also settled on keeping my Firefly setup until/unless it dies.  It also controls all of my gear perfectly (except for the slowish volume control), works even out in the backyard, and still works fine.  I just wish someone made a newer version of the same thing.  I'd buy like 4 of them and just keep the others in hiding until the fiftieth time it got dropped and finally dropped dead.

[glynor]

YMMV

Always.

I'm really very interested in something with RS232, but it doesn't look like ANY of the current Yammy's do.  Their site sucks though, and I'm having trouble digging through all of the different "lines" and models.  Am I missing an obvious section where they have "pro" versions of the RX-V line that might have them?

[pcstockton]

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/processors-integra-dtr-5-3-audio-video-receiver-2013-08-24-home-theater-22911-charlottesville-va

[glynor]

This is really the biggest issue with AVRs right now, and one of the reasons I've always been hesitant to buy them. (that, and my experience with a few HTIB kits put me off the idea of surround altogether)
One might completely satisfy all your audio requirements, but you need to replace the whole unit if you want the latest HDMI features. (3D, 4K at 60Hz, dynamic lip-sync correction etc.)

Honestly, that's part of what I liked about the SR5008.

It is way above my stated price range... But it has that nice RS232 port and the 7.1 channel discreet analog ins.  I looked around online and I can't find any of last year's versions in stock from non-shady vendors.  I'm going to keep looking, but I don't really want to go that high if I can avoid it.

Does anyone know if the Yammy's (or any others) can be controlled via USB ports?

I could, of course, do it via the network, but I'm thinking that'll be just as slow as IR blasting (maybe slower).  I really only care for volume control.  I want my in-Windows volume control of the amp to be just as responsive as the amp's native remote.  I could, of course, forget the amp control and do volume in software, but that presents its own set of challenges when using more apps than just MC.

[MrC]

The Integra DTRs are very nice.  ORemote is a nice iPad control app.

[jmone]

Here is some specs on the codes for some of the yammis - http://files.remotecentral.com/library/22-1/yamaha/index.html

[jmone]

Here is a back pic of one of the Yammies - you can see a RS232 port (but really it is so 1980's!)

http://www.fullcompass.com/common/products/original/106359.jpg