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Author Topic: Turning TV from adequate to excellent  (Read 28348 times)

NickF

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Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« on: November 03, 2013, 05:03:50 pm »

For me, TV is probably the most important aspect of MC.  I have it running on three systems and use it every day.  Every day, without exception, it gives me problems.  Some of the problems have been reported but with no response or change.  So why is this?  Isn't TV important to J River?  It doesn't seem so.  I know Yaobing has done some great work to get us to where we are but there seems to have been no visible change in mc19.  It's true that, once a TV program is showing, it works fine but selecting channels, navigating the guide, setting up TV from scratch, supporting multi-standard tuners all need more work.

Selecting a program or channel (click on watch) - there is often a significant delay before anything happens.  I don't know whether the delay is in graph construction.  It is certainly the case that graph construction regularly fails.  The most common issue is that the program video shows but there is no audio.  Selecting stop then re-selecting the program will usually be successful.  

During this delay there is no indication of any response.  The user is left wondering whether the selection worked.  If you repeat the selection, invariably, MC crashes.  I have never seen this sort of behaviour in any other windows app.

Setup - we have raised this several times before but there has been no improvement.  The only improvement here has been the ability to use keywords for filtering channels but, this is a tedious workaround.  In the UK, as in many countries, we have multiple carriers of TV including terrestrial, satellite, cable and broadband.  Tuning satellite is particularly tiresome with hundreds, if not thousands of unwanted or encrypted and, therefore, inaccessible channels.  

Other systems are capable of detecting and, therefore, automatically filtering encrypted channels.  Why not MC?  We have the same channels supported on multiple carriers and, therefore, appearing multiple times in the guide.  I know that Yaobing has ideas for resolving this but it remains unresolved, leaving us with a very cumbersome guide.

Guide setup for multiple carriers - the current guide will only load one carrier's channel data.  This means that for users like me, the guide must be populated manually.  

We get crashes associated with radio channels which I reported recently.

Why does the guide become greyed out when the system is left idle for a while?  In this state, the guide text can barely be read.  Re selecting guide (using MCC) does not resolve this.  It is necessary to use back then navigate back to the guide.

Could we have the guide update in real time with a vertical line indicating the current time?

Could we have commands to shift forward and backward through the guide a day at a time?

And why do the times at the top of the guide sometimes show 20 minutes past the hour?  

MC should be the best PC based PVR on the planet but it falls short of that today.  

Any chance of giving TV a bit of attention?  Or perhaps Yaobing has some radical improvements in coding.  

Nick.
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JimH

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 05:13:43 pm »

During this delay there is no indication of any response.  The user is left wondering whether the selection worked.  If you repeat the selection, invariably, MC crashes.  I have never seen this sort of behaviour in any other windows app.

We get crashes associated with radio channels which I reported recently.
Please forward crash logs when it happens.
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mojave

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 08:18:34 pm »

The most common issue is that the program video shows but there is no audio.  Selecting stop then re-selecting the program will usually be successful.
I have this same issue. It seems to be related to when the time shifting is on an external drive and the drive needs to wake up but I'm not certain. It only occurs during live playback and not if recording and then playing from the recording - even if only a few seconds behind live.

Last night I had one channel that had no audio even though the others did. I recorded the channel and it played fine, but live it never did get audio after multiple retries.
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raym

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 10:50:19 pm »

I've not had any crashes of late but then again, I'm not using MC for recording, just the occasional live viewing.

I agree it can be slow tuning into a channel initially.

My biggest gripe is that I still get significant audio stuttering when channel surfing. Pausing a little and then resuming fixes it. Yaobing is aware of it but It's been this way for ages now.

Setup can be difficult. It's always a chore adding a new channel. I wish basic scanning and channel selection could be done from within theater view.

As I said, stability seems ok for me but I'm prob not the best judge of this.
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 04:59:09 am »

I agree it can be slow tuning into a channel initially.

My biggest gripe is that I still get significant audio stuttering when channel surfing. Pausing a little and then resuming fixes it. Yaobing is aware of it but It's been this way for ages now.


Same here. I posted about the stuttering in the TV section but have had no response. In my case it doesn't always happen - actually most of the time everything works fine. It's usually when my wife is looking that it breaks. :)

I'm sure its very hard to fix something when it doesn't fail regularly and the problem is not captured in a log. But I agree that the TV feature needs some TLC.
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cncb

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 05:33:30 pm »

I must agree.  Unfortunately, every time I try to use MC for TV it turns out to be not stable enough for me.  The main problem in my opinion is playback on a client PC can bring the MC server down (and any recordings in progress).  This should never be able to happen for a PVR.
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JimH

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 06:02:43 pm »

What is the TV Tuner on the server?
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cncb

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 07:34:56 pm »

If you were asking me I have an HDHomerun (ATSC) but the instability seems to usually come when watching Live TV or in-progress recordings on a client.  For me, like I've requested before, TV recording needs to be moved to a separate Windows service to be stable enough and not susceptible to other MC crashes/errors.
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2013, 08:20:12 am »

If you were asking me I have an HDHomerun (ATSC) but the instability seems to usually come when watching Live TV or in-progress recordings on a client.  For me, like I've requested before, TV recording needs to be moved to a separate Windows service to be stable enough and not susceptible to other MC crashes/errors.

It is more important to fix the crashes.  Recording in a separate service does not make much difference since we will need to access the recorder from a client when playing a program that is currently being recorded.
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muzicman0

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2013, 12:11:20 pm »

It is more important to fix the crashes.  Recording in a separate service does not make much difference since we will need to access the recorder from a client when playing a program that is currently being recorded.
If MC crashes on playback (which happens too frequently), then recordings also stop.  Why would you need to access the recorder from a client?  wouldn't you just need to access the .jtv file that is being written by the recorder?
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 12:47:24 pm »

It is essentially what we do now, accessing a jtv file.  But often we need to give command to the recorder so it will created a jtv file in the first place.  What I was trying to say is if MC would crash due to client request, MC Service would also crash due to the same request.  Fixing the crash is what we need, not creating another piece to increase complexity.
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muzicman0

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2013, 01:08:03 pm »

I agree...assuming the crash is happening because of a request to the recording service...but what about if a crash happens for other reasons?  I still think it would be a good idea to have it isolated.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 03:46:10 pm »

I agree...assuming the crash is happening because of a request to the recording service...but what about if a crash happens for other reasons?  I still think it would be a good idea to have it isolated.
I agree.  MC crashes for many reasons, not just TV related.  I agree that the crashes need to be fixed but scheduled TV recording is something which happens independently of most other activities on MC and should not be affected by them.  I agree that a service is a sensible approach.

Nick.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2013, 03:49:21 pm »

Yaobing,

Are you able to share with us any further thoughts and progress on the channel grouping and selection for multiple carriers?

Nick.
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Daveyravey

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2013, 03:58:05 pm »

I must agree with NIck F's post.

Unfortunately, every time I try to use MC for TV it turns out to be not stable enough for me crahsing, slow tuner changing, unbelievably slow searching through recorded tv content. 

MV19 isnt usable as a PVR for non geeky people................ Its a shame because it feels as if JRiver aren't really interested in TV playback,
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JimH

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 04:50:23 pm »

Unfortunately, every time I try to use MC for TV it turns out to be not stable enough for me crahsing, slow tuner changing, unbelievably slow searching through recorded tv content. 
Please post a log and some details.
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2013, 04:59:13 pm »

Yaobing,

Are you able to share with us any further thoughts and progress on the channel grouping and selection for multiple carriers?

Nick.

The GUI part is still in the works.  The grouping of channels already works if you use a smart list to display the channels, and Stack channels you want to group together.
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Daveyravey

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2013, 11:23:34 am »

If i play back recorded HD television why when i fast forward does it take 10-15 seconds to resume playback?
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Daveyravey

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2013, 11:26:55 am »

The grouping of channels does work but is cumbersome. Why cant it be like Microsoft media center where it is all done within a GUI using the remote like a PVR should do.
Also things like Setting series link, multiple recordings, repeat shows etc all have to be done using a mouse is standard view.

Every time i wake my pc up from sleep and jriver resumes 99% of the time it has crashed... (probably to do with HDMI) that i think Jim mentioned has always been an issue.

I can post a log but have done in the past and nothing got done about it.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2013, 04:40:11 pm »

The GUI part is still in the works.  The grouping of channels already works if you use a smart list to display the channels, and Stack channels you want to group together.
OK, I have a Smartlist and I have stacked same channels from different carriers.  Now what?  How does this affect the Theater View Guide?  How does it affect recording of shows?  I can see that, in Standard View > Drives & Devices> TV, the list of channels becomes rationalised but I doubt that many users use standard view for their PVR interface.  Why doesn't this rationalised listing appear in Theater View?  Or is that what you mean by "The GUI part is still in the works"?

Nick.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2013, 05:00:32 pm »

I have played some more and I can now see that, in standard view TV, for stacked channels, an available tuner of any type is used for watch or record.  So that's a good step. 
So will setting up stacks be automated, based on channel name matching? 
What does it take to get the rationalised, stack based channel listing to show in Theater View? 
I guess many of us now use keywords to filter channels for the guide.  Is there some other expression which will filter based on stacks?
What are Stack Tags?  The field isn't editable.  Can we give the stack a name?

Nick.
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2013, 07:31:18 pm »

OK, I have a Smartlist and I have stacked same channels from different carriers.  Now what?  How does this affect the Theater View Guide?  How does it affect recording of shows?  I can see that, in Standard View > Drives & Devices> TV, the list of channels becomes rationalised but I doubt that many users use standard view for their PVR interface.  Why doesn't this rationalised listing appear in Theater View?  Or is that what you mean by "The GUI part is still in the works"?

Nick.

You should run the EPG manually once, and make sure only the channels on the stack top are associated with an xmltv ID.  Non-top stack members should not be associated with xmltv IDs.  That way they will not show up in the Guide grid.  When you schedule recording, using either the Theater view Guide or Standard view, the recording is scheduled for the stack top channels only, but MC will try using other tuners associated with channels within the same stack as needed.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 07:59:46 am »

You should run the EPG manually once, and make sure only the channels on the stack top are associated with an xmltv ID.  Non-top stack members should not be associated with xmltv IDs.  That way they will not show up in the Guide grid.  When you schedule recording, using either the Theater view Guide or Standard view, the recording is scheduled for the stack top channels only, but MC will try using other tuners associated with channels within the same stack as needed.
Thanks, Yaobing, I have done this and the guide now looks a lot tidier.  A note on the setup process, it is best to clear the guide data to remove any records for non-stack top channels.  I realise they will disappear on the subsequent updates but it gives a clean start point.

The setup is quite tedious and some automation would be very welcome.  I guess, if the channel names for the different carriers or tuner types match up, this could be reasonably straightforward.

One change I would like to see is for the non-stack top channels to still appear in the "Edit Channels" option, otherwise it is necessary to unstack them, make the change then restack.

Ultimately, I think some configurable rules on tuner and channel choice within stacks may be desirable.

Thanks,

Nick.
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ichkriegediekriese

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 03:33:36 pm »


In regard to my post here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84522.0

this also adds a couple of points why MC needs more work to attract users for TV/PCR usage - As written in both posts, it just isn't state of the art for TV, and that is what MC is, and want's to be in terms of music playback pictures etc... . For TV it needs more work and I agree in MC19 there is no sign of development (for the moment at least)
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fobos8

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2013, 01:26:50 am »

...... I have played around with JRiver a couple of times and found the TV section let the whole thing down. 

I soon as I hear it is stable and functional I will certainly buy JRiver as everything else seems great
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2013, 01:18:09 pm »

In regard to my post here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84522.0

this also adds a couple of points why MC needs more work to attract users for TV/PCR usage - As written in both posts, it just isn't state of the art for TV, and that is what MC is, and want's to be in terms of music playback pictures etc... . For TV it needs more work and I agree in MC19 there is no sign of development (for the moment at least)

Thanks for the link to this topic.

When you select a program in the guide, clicking play will play the program.  Clicking record will record the program.  It is a pity that the guide switches to the top left position when you click record.  I would like the reassurance that the action was successful by seeing the red dot against the program.  I would really like to see a three way toggle on record.  Each press of record would take the state through record, subscribe then back to no action.  And I don't want to be interrogated with a pop-up about whether I want to cancel recording!  If the guide stayed in the same place, I could see that the red dot had disappeared.  We would need another symbol for subscribe.  This would be much better and only require use of one button.

Nick.
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nwboater

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 07:41:07 pm »

Since this thread has become 'stickied' it looks like it's becoming a Master for TV Requests and Suggestions. I have had one request in for a couple of years and two recent ones that I think should be included in this thread.

1. The long standing one is as follows. If I make TV recordings in SageTV or another external program and then import the recordings into MC they will appear as either a 'TV Show' or a 'Movie'. No matter what is recorded in MC it always becomes a 'TV Show'. We record a lot of movies and find it a big nuisance to have to edit the tags for all Movies to make them appear as Movies. It seems to me that MC should give its own recordings at least as much respect as those recorded by another program. (Grumble, grumble!)

2. The next one is about conflict resolution. MC now gives a warning when you schedule a recording with a time overlap to a previously scheduled recording. This is a HUGE improvement and will avoid lots of messed up recordings. Thanks JRiver! The issue now is that the alert message only says that there is a conflict, not what is the conflicting program.

When watching Live TV MC will give an alert message if you try to watch something when the tuner is busy with a recording. And that message says what the program is and allows you to make a choice of continuing to watch Live, or to switch to the other channel and make the recording. It would hopefully be a simple change to give the same message and choices when scheduling a recording. It would save having to leave you are in the Guide and would be a much nicer work flow.

3. This request relates to knowing what week you are in with the Guide. When scheduling TV recordings we will often scroll many days to the right. Sometimes we forget what week we are looking at. This may affect the scheduling choices we make. It would be a big help for this problem if the date could be shown next to the day of the week in the upper left corner of the screen. Or any suitable means of knowing the date.

Thanks very much for considering these helpful improvements.

Cheers,
Rod
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 09:54:38 am »

I have two HTPCs, each with a BlackGold BGT3600 quad tuner card with DVB/T2 and DVB/S2 tuners.  I am getting serious picture breakup on each tuner type, particularly on HD channels, yet MC OSD says the signal strength is at 100%.  I couldn't see how this could possibly be a MC issue so I contacted BlackGold.  They say the interpretation of signal strength is difficult and meaningless and it is far better to use the signal quality interface.

So this is my requirement, to have an OSD option to give us a measure of signal quality.

Incidentally, I have recently boosted my DVB/T signal strength which has significantly improved the breakup and, of course, the OSD still says 100%!

Nick.
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dorsetjon

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2014, 05:26:40 am »

I trialed MC to add TV recording to the existing audio functionality on my media server. I bought MC because MC's audio was much better than my existing setup and I use the TV recording because I can, but I wouldn't have bought MC for the TV recording. In addition to what has been mentioned above, I have raised the following bugs in previous forum posts and it would be good to get some fixes. Given that MC can do lots of really clever stuff it's a shame that some basic gaps and issues remain in the TV support.

1. A subscription record of a series which has back to back episodes produces a single file generated rather than one for each episode.

2. Tuning returns lots of null() channels or duplicates of proper channels with a (n) suffix.

3. Theatre View Guide navigation broken with long running programmes, e.g. "Channel Off Air". Recent updates improved this but there are still issues.

4. TV "Scan for channels" only finds channels currently broadcasting. So where some channels only broadcast during the day and some only at night, the scan must be run twice (at night and by day) to find all channels. Windows Media Center & Arcsoft TotalMedia both find all channels regardless of whether they are currently broadcasting.

5. After scanning for channels the "Favorite channels" and "Hidden channels" lists aren't updated until the Options window is closed and re-opened.

6. Channel number is not populated (Options->Television->Edit channel list) after tuning.

But my biggest irritation, and this is a feature request and not a bug, is that channels are listed alphabetically. At least an option to list them by channel number would be very useful and surely that isn't a difficult change? Channels that don't have a number (given that this isn't auto populated, see 6 above) could be listed alphabetically after those with numbers.
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2014, 09:19:53 am »

Thanks for the list.

1. A subscription record of a series which has back to back episodes produces a single file generated rather than one for each episode.

I fixed this on Friday.  A new build will come out soon.

Quote
2. Tuning returns lots of null() channels or duplicates of proper channels with a (n) suffix.

I will fix this soon, along with item 6 below.

Quote
3. Theatre View Guide navigation broken with long running programmes, e.g. "Channel Off Air". Recent updates improved this but there are still issues.
This appears to be a tough one.  We will continue looking for a solution.

Quote
4. TV "Scan for channels" only finds channels currently broadcasting. So where some channels only broadcast during the day and some only at night, the scan must be run twice (at night and by day) to find all channels. Windows Media Center & Arcsoft TotalMedia both find all channels regardless of whether they are currently broadcasting.

We scan over-the-air channels using actual signals.  Microsoft probably has a database of all channels.  Not sure what we can do, but it might be a good idea if we can find an online database to tap into.

Quote
5. After scanning for channels the "Favorite channels" and "Hidden channels" lists aren't updated until the Options window is closed and re-opened.

Added to my list.

Quote
6. Channel number is not populated (Options->Television->Edit channel list) after tuning.

See item 2 above.

Quote
But my biggest irritation, and this is a feature request and not a bug, is that channels are listed alphabetically. At least an option to list them by channel number would be very useful and surely that isn't a difficult change? Channels that don't have a number (given that this isn't auto populated, see 6 above) could be listed alphabetically after those with numbers.

Added to my list.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2014, 11:45:56 am »

We scan over-the-air channels using actual signals.  Microsoft probably has a database of all channels.  Not sure what we can do, but it might be a good idea if we can find an online database to tap into.

http://en.kingofsat.net/pos-28.2E.php

This isn't a database as such but it's an extremely useful resource.  Could you scrape the data somehow and organise it into a database?

Does anyone know of anything else?

Nick.
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ichkriegediekriese

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2014, 02:05:54 pm »

@yaobing

You did add quite some interesting things to your "to-do list".

Here are again a couple of useful suggestions:

1)   
MC needs a real channel editor which runs in full screen mode with the ability to search for channels and create /delete own channel list within that window.

Sorting:

Search
Channelnumber
Transponder
Service Provider


Furethermore a multiple selection of channels should be possible (for moving to a different list).

Created channel lists should be easily accessible under „options-> Theater view->TV“ section to be added to theatr view.

2) Why does each channel have multiple entries, for each audio track one separate entry?
 Usually one entry of a channel, in a channel list, contains the audio tracks within so that the user can switch audio tracks later when watching Tv.

3) Option to start MC with live TV channel xyz.

4) record from timeshift buffer would be nice :-)

please :-)
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Fangio

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2014, 03:51:51 pm »


Does anyone know of anything else?


For UK terrestrial broadcasts: http://www.terrestrialtv.co.uk/dtt.cgi
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dorsetjon

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2014, 11:16:10 am »

Thanks for fixing the following issue in 19.103 - I tested over the weekend and consecutive programs now record separately.

1. A subscription record of a series which has back to back episodes produces a single file generated rather than one for each episode.
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dorsetjon

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2014, 03:43:15 pm »

Yaobing - Shortly after my last post I saw that 19.104 has been released with a good number of TV changes. I have upgraded to that and it's great to see more of the suggestions & fixes discussed above incorporated in to MC. Thanks for that!

Now that the channel number is being captured can there be an option to sort the channel list in EPG by channel number rather than alphabetically? Alternatively, you could achieve the same thing with an option to include the channel number as a prefix to the channel name and continue to sort alphabetically.
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2014, 04:00:08 pm »

Yes.  I will work on sorting.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

erwinb

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2014, 05:52:46 am »

May I also repeat the request of myself and many others to add support for DVB-C encrypted channels?
Without that MC isn't adequate for almost anyone in Europe with cable-tv.

Others have suggested JR teams up with the guys at DVBlogic who focus on the 'back-end' of TV. Creating integration (as other media players have done) would eliminate complexity for JR.

Many many users need an alternative to Windows Media Center now that Microsoft have stopped developing it. This should be a very interesting market for MC!
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2014, 06:43:44 am »

May I also repeat the request of myself and many others to add support for DVB-C encrypted channels?
Without that MC isn't adequate for almost anyone in Europe with cable-tv.

Others have suggested JR teams up with the guys at DVBlogic who focus on the 'back-end' of TV. Creating integration (as other media players have done) would eliminate complexity for JR.

Thanks for your input.

Are you suggesting that DVBlogic handles encrypted channels?  I couldn't find any mention of it on their site.  Or are these two separate suggestions?

What do you mean by integration in this context?

Nick.
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erwinb

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2014, 07:46:50 am »

I indeed mean MC could 'connect' to 'TV' provided by DVBlogic:
http://dvblogic.com/en/ and http://dvblogic.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ
Quote
DVBLink is a software package that turns your Windows system or NAS into a Personal Video Recorder (PVR). DVBLink records all your favorite TV programs directly to the hard disk of a NAS or Windows PC and distributes live and recorded TV content to a variety of clients on your home network.

If MC could become a client then DVBlogic could focus on the TV / recording / transcoding / EPG complexities (including IPTV etc etc) and MC on playback. Possibly JR could co-develop this with them as they have already created clients to multiple platforms and one of them (WMC) will cease to exist.
http://dvblogic.com/wiki/index.php/DVBLink_Server_clients
and http://dvblogic.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Which_TV_providers_are_supported_by_DVBLink_on_NAS_platform.3F (confirming support for encrypted channels)

edit 20140119: removed diagram

They have published their Client API here http://188.121.56.29/download/dvblink_remote_api.htm
Quote
DVBLink Remote API provides the following functionality:
    TV channel list retrieval
    EPG information retrieval
    Recording timers management (scheduling, overview and deleting)
    Live TV playback
    DVBLink Server parental control access

Thank you.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2014, 01:05:49 pm »

I am personally unconvinced about DVBlink.  I much prefer a single supplier solution,  I then know who to blame when it doesn't work!!  MC already does much of what is shown in the diagram.  With time, I anticipate it will cover the whole space.  I can't imagine JRiver wanting to be relegated to the role of a media client!  We know that there is still room for improvement in the TV domain but Yaobing is constantly delivering improvements.

It is probably best to remove the diagram from your post.  Jim is not enthusiastic about competitor products being promoted on the forum.  ;)

Nick.
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racefacexc

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2014, 10:59:35 pm »

...... I have played around with JRiver a couple of times and found the TV section let the whole thing down.  

I soon as I hear it is stable and functional I will certainly buy JRiver as everything else seems great

i have the same feelings and hesitation to buy.  However, since there is no other media center solution that satifies my other needs and wants, I will buy this at the end of the trial. 
However, I would like to ask/add to the list a feature in guide to play the currently tuned channel in the small frame while browsing the guide.  It does this in non theater view, and it would great if it did this in theater view.  WMC does this in a spectacular way by overlaying the guide on the full screen view of the tuned channel, with a transparency so both are visible.
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2014, 03:22:43 am »

This is true. However it is difficult for a company based in the US to develop and test dvb problems with many different encryptions. If the solution is already out there, then why not? I suppose it would be problematic if dvb logic went under.

Alternatively - could jriver make use of the MDAPI directshow filter like other dvb players? With yaobing and hendrick's combined directshow knowhow I'm sure it wouldn't take long.

SBR
Mediaportal have a clear policy of not supporting use of MDAPI for decryption because, in most cases, it's illegal.  See here:

http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/mdapi-softcam-support-again.12620/

I think this is dangerous territory for JRiver to get into.

I would prefer that a separate topic was started on this rather than diverting this one.

Nick.
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imeric

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2014, 11:32:37 am »

Very good feedback in this thread!! I'm definitely not alone wanting to see some improvement on the TV side of JRiver.

If I could get the following things I would definitely give JRiver a shot for watching tv (and stop using Sage):

1. Guide in theater view playing the currently tuned channel in a small window.
2. Show program description in the OSD in theater view (besides what's playing next)
3. Ability to choose different channels for different tuner cards.  Some are more sensitive than others which means MC May try to record a show on an available tuner card which is unable to pickup that specific channel.  If it would just take what it found after a scan and keep this info separate for each tuner card that would be great.
4. Fix delay issue when changing channels
5. Improve Stability
6. Impossible to configure WMC remote IR blaster without WMC installed. (For my Colossus card and STB)

Nice to have (IMHO this would make JRiver better than the competition for TV watching/recording!!:

2. Run as a service for recordings
3. Support Comskip (At least ability to enable or disable skipping when an edl file is present if using the handsfree method)
4. Automatic video conversion of recorded show (customisable based on file name or recorded date)

Thx
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NickF

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2014, 02:32:55 pm »


3. Ability to choose different channels for different tuner cards.  Some are more sensitive than others which means MC May try to record a show on an available tuner card which is unable to pickup that specific channel.  If it would just take what it found after a scan and keep this info separate for each tuner card that would be great.
Presumably you have grouped (stacked) your channels.  MC will only use a channel which is marked with the correct Tuner Type with a particular tuner.  If you don't want MC to use the relevant channel with the weaker tuner, then unstack and hide that channel with the weaker tuner type.  If necessary, make sure you are showing the Tuner Type in your Smartlist.

Nick.
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imeric

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2014, 07:50:54 am »

Hi Nick,
Thx for your feedback. I haven't stacked  as I also have a colossus for a satellite stb +hundreds of channels so stacking would take forever.

I do have another htpc setup With 3 ATSC cards also not created equal.  i'll Try on this set-up and report back.


I have a thread with yaobbing on this I'll report back there as well.
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Yaobing

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2014, 08:11:07 am »

Grouping is intended for handling different channel types.  So you can stack a ATSC channel with a STB channel.  It will not help differentiate three ATSC tuners that do not perform equally.
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Yaobing Deng, JRiver Media Center

imeric

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2014, 06:18:30 pm »

I won't even bother then...

On another note is it just me or the latest versions of JRiver been very VERY unstable? (even the stable builds but I admit always dowloading the latest hoping it will be better than the previous one for stability..)

-Will crash playing music when PC is busy doing video conversion (handbrake) (Not an issue with VLC, Mediaplayer sage etc..) so not my setup
-Crash when doubleclicking on files to play in windows explorer if something is already playing (not on first time but after a couple of times it will)
-Other crashes here and there hard to replicate (server on makes it worst)


As I'm tryping this it uses up all  my virtual memory not doing anything and will die...
I know you guys want logs and more info but I wish I had more time.  If I get more time I will give more info for sure.

What about a clean install of MC? Will that help? I can always import my library which is all that really matters...
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JimH

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2014, 06:24:34 pm »

Please start a new thread on the problem you have, but we have seen a lot of antivirus issues lately:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86096.0

Aside from that, we're not seeing a lot of stability problems.
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imeric

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2014, 06:28:54 pm »

Thx Jim. I will. I'm using MSE.

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dorsetjon

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Re: Turning TV from adequate to excellent
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2014, 06:00:57 am »

Yaobing,

Thanks for the .108 build, there's some more good stuff in there and it all seems to work well. Having run tuning again I now have all my channels with a channel number prefix and therefore in the correct order. Following a previous build all the (null) entries have now also gone although I still get the occasional duplicate channel with a (1) suffix. Not a big issue because these can be easily deleted after tuning but would be good to prevent these from appearing.

Thanks again.

Jon
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