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[mdogbucket]

I love JRiver and am using version 14 or 15 and check back ever 6 months or so expecting that the latest version will have the ability to set an EQ preference for each song or album but it hasn't come? 

Am I crazy or is this one of the most basic and useful features possible?!!?

[Vocalpoint]

I love JRiver and am using version 14 or 15 and check back ever 6 months or so expecting that the latest version will have the ability to set an EQ preference for each song or album but it hasn't come?  Am I crazy or is this one of the most basic and useful features possible?!!?

Well - I won't say you are crazy But why would you need to EQ per song? Do you really feel the team who mixed said albums (or tracks) did not make it the best it can be?

While I do use EQ for recording and occasionally to correct listening room issues (Home Theater) - I would never use EQ in MC. My reason is purely audiophile in nature and that is - as soon as you switch in any of the supplied EQ's - bit-perfect is compromised. I would rather keep keep the audio path - pure.

YMMV.

VP

[magnust]

http://accessories.jriver.com/mediacenter/accessories.php

 

"EQdb allows you to set an individual EQ setting for each track. Uses the playing now playlist."


Haven't tried it myself.

[DoubtingThomas]

+1

This is my current most wanted feature.  If we could name and save EQ curves and then apply them on a track by track basis, then I could not have to constantly fiddle with the existing Equalizer for those albums/tracks that simply have too much bass.

It would have to be the parametric equalizer. 

Try "Cowboy Junkies / Whites Off Earth Now / Baby Please Don't Go"

I cannot listen to this without drastically lowering the bass without fear of damaging my subwoofers or stuff falling off the walls.

[mdogbucket]

I'm also an audiophile and listen through a rather serious system.  Playing well recorded material bit perfect is fine, but there is a ton of good music that is either slightly lean in the bass or needs a little EQ to be enjoyable and playing those recordings "bit perfect" isn't making them any more tolerable.  

I also find the EQ in my version of JRiver to be excellent in terms of it's transparency, so you could have your cake and eat it too with recordings that need a little help.  

I don't really care about having the ability to EQ each track as much as each album given that most albums have consistent recording quality, but I surmise that the programming required to do one would accomplish the other anyway.

It just seems like the most basic no-brainer feature that would do wonders for making your entire music collection sound optimized whenever you hit play.  

[mojave]

If your system isn't capable of playback for certain songs, the solution isn't to individually change each song with EQ. It is best to setup your system for proper playback at the limits. This can be done by adding the subwoofer limiter and setting it properly for the subwoofer channel, adding high pass filters if necessary, or by using proper bass management.

If you want more bass I would recommend turning on Loudness (click the speaker by volume control). This increases the bass level so that it sounds appropriate when listening at volumes lower than what was used to mix the song. It is recommended to use internal volume and set the reference level when using loudness. I turn it on sometimes and off other times.

When you guys that want track/album EQ are listening to a song you really think, "This song needs about -3 dB Q2 at 1000 Hz and +2 dB Q.5 at 100 Hz"?  ?

bit-perfect is compromised

Bit-perfect is probably the least important parameter to accurate reproduction in your room. If you don't listen at the exact same volume than the song was mastered at then your listening is no longer "pure"  . If you use EQ for room correction, then EQ just changes the volume at different frequencies so that the song still sounds the same as it did when it was created.

[DoubtingThomas]

If your system isn't capable of playback for certain songs, the solution isn't to individually change each song with EQ. It is best to setup your system for proper playback at the limits. This can be done by adding the subwoofer limiter and setting it properly for the subwoofer channel, adding high pass filters if necessary, or by using proper bass management.

If you want more bass I would recommend turning on Loudness (click the speaker by volume control). This increases the bass level so that it sounds appropriate when listening at volumes lower than what was used to mix the song. It is recommended to use internal volume and set the reference level when using loudness. I turn it on sometimes and off other times.

I don't think we've explained it right.  I have my system set up property for 98% of my music, but there is some that requires adjustment.  And I don't want to be pressing buttons at the PC to make that adjustment since a) I'm rarely at my PC when listening to music.  b) I'd forget to undo it.  c)  Automation is always best.

"Cowboy Junkies / Whites Off Earth Now / Baby Please Don't Go" has considerable output at 40hz (per the analyzer) unlike most other albums, and for proper playback, it needs lots of low bass attenuation.

[mojave]

I cannot listen to this without drastically lowering the bass without fear of damaging my subwoofers or stuff falling off the walls.

This is due to the lower frequencies present for just that song. If you set a high pass filter or use the subwoofer limiter, then it will only affect songs that have bass below a certain frequency. So it really is a way to correct only 2% of the songs automatically without changing anything about other songs.

[DoubtingThomas]

Okay, I see where to set up the subwoofer limiter, but it has no effect that I can hear.  I have MC set for 2 channel audio with a digital coax connection to an external D/A converter with 2 channel line level outputs to my audio system processor.

I'd like to try this, what different must I do?  It is not possible for me to run line level cables from my PC to my audio system, nor would I want to (over 80ft) and would mean using the D/A converter in my sound card.

[Vocalpoint]

Bit-perfect is probably the least important parameter to accurate reproduction in your room. If you don't listen at the exact same volume than the song was mastered at then your listening is no longer "pure"  .

Let me rephrase - I do most of my serious "music" listening on phones - so the "room" is not a factor. I am just fond of knowing that the computer is not adding (or subtracting) anything during playback and want playback as "pure" from source as possible. Could care less what volume it was mastered at - just as long as what I am hearing is exactly the way the engineer intended it to sound.

Like that Junkies record mentioned earlier - if the band/engineer wanted heavy duty bass throb - who am I to remove it? That's changing the whole dynamic of the record in my opinion. It's it's bassy -my system should be properly calibrated to reproduce that intent - with no cause for concern.

For what it's worth - I think "Baby Please Don't Go" (From UDSACD 4010) sounds killer via MC->Teac UD501->Audio Technica ATH M50 mastering phones. I wouldn't change a thing here.

VP

[DoubtingThomas]

Let me rephrase - I do most of my serious "music" listening on phones - so the "room" is not a factor. I am just fond of knowing that the computer is not adding (or subtracting) anything during playback and want playback as "pure" from source as possible. Could care less what volume it was mastered at - just as long as what I am hearing is exactly the way the engineer intended it to sound.

Like that Junkies record mentioned earlier - if the band/engineer wanted heavy duty bass throb - who am I to remove it? That's changing the whole dynamic of the record in my opinion. It's it's bassy -my system should be properly calibrated to reproduce that intent - with no cause for concern.

For what it's worth - I think "Baby Please Don't Go" (From UDSACD 4010) sounds killer via MC->Teac UD501->Audio Technica ATH M50 mastering phones. I wouldn't change a thing here.

Again, I am not explaining it right, or you are not listening to what I am writing.

I don't own any headphones...

I have my system set up for most music to play properly, as flat as I can get it.   And most music sounds just great.  But again, the Cowboy Junkies track (and most of their albums) have too much low bass content to play without adjustment, and I don't want to be making manual adjustments when one "normal" album ends and then the Cowboy Junkies are next in PlayingNow.

I have a Sunfire TSEQ12 in my living room, a Sunfire TSEQ10 in my home office and a Sunfire True Subwoofer in my masterbedroom.   All simply put out too much output when playing (for example) that Cowboy Junkies track.  I fear they might be bottoming and certainly it sounds over-bassed and I really do fear stuff falling off my walls.

I can't find much info via search on the "Subwoofer Limiter", one thread is off limits...  If I can get it to work, and it has no effect unless the low freq content exceeds some limit, that might solve my issue.  However, others might want other adjustments at other frequency bands and the concept of saving "named parametric eq" curves and then being able to set them on a track by track basic would work great.

Maybe the MFSL version of "Whites Off Earth Now" has a better mix than the standard version of the album I have.

[Vocalpoint]

I have my system set up for most music to play properly, as flat as I can get it.   And most music sounds just great.  But again, the Cowboy Junkies track (and most of their albums) have too much low bass content to play without adjustment, and I don't want to be making manual adjustments when one "normal" album ends and then the Cowboy Junkies are next in PlayingNow.

Apologies - but I am reading it right. When I play this SACD on my "big" system in the media room - sure - the bass is round and full but not in a way that has me running for the EQ to alter it.

Of course - all systems (and ears) are different. However - I haven't come across any source material yet that MC did not play exactly as intended - with no EQ inline whatsoever. That's why I chose it....pure musical bliss...but - hey - that's me.

I hope you find a solution to your issue. And thanks for the nod to the Junkies - I haven't listened to that one in a long time and it's great!

VP

[DoubtingThomas]

Subwoofer limiter
Limit the subwoofer by rolling off the lowest frequencies, while allowing mid-bass to pass.
More: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74447.0

This from the "New Features" page, the link is missing or off limits (to me).

From the short description, it's not what I want engaged 24/7 since it says "rolls off the lowest frequencies", which is *NOT* what I want for most all music.  My goal is a setting that is set-able on a track by track basis so it's automatically engaged for configured tracks and off for most tracks.

If it limited low bass (freq adjustable) output above a certain (line) level (adjustable), that would leave most all music unmolested, while preventing my subs from overloading on a few tracks (like the Cowboy Junkies mentioned above).

So again +1 for this thread request.

[mdogbucket]

If your system isn't capable of playback for certain songs, the solution isn't to individually change each song with EQ. It is best to setup your system for proper playback at the limits. This can be done by adding the subwoofer limiter and setting it properly for the subwoofer channel, adding high pass filters if necessary, or by using proper bass management.

The other gentleman who has chimed in to help request this feature is coming at it from a different angle and it's too in depth to get in to here with out going way off course, but the above advice is not at all recommended from a purist sound quality standpoint.

If you want more bass I would recommend turning on Loudness (click the speaker by volume control). This increases the bass level so that it sounds appropriate when listening at volumes lower than what was used to mix the song. It is recommended to use internal volume and set the reference level when using loudness. I turn it on sometimes and off other times.

When you guys that want track/album EQ are listening to a song you really think, "This song needs about -3 dB Q2 at 1000 Hz and +2 dB Q.5 at 100 Hz"?  Huh

With all due respect, this completely misses the point.  Most recordings are far from ideal and could use some minor EQ to make them more listenable.  So YES it's easy to see when a song needs some boost at 60hz and some reduction at 1-3K to make it much better.  Most recording engineers today mix music to the lowest common denominator, which means compressed radio play and poor car and portable systems.

Again, bit perfect playback is the ideal for those recordings that are really well balanced and of demonstration quality, but you're kidding yourself if you believe that most recordings fall into that category.  The vast majority need help and a generic loudness boost is not nearly the answer.  Being able to memorize EQ settings would be a godsend and it's a feature that's available with inferior players like iTunes, so I'm just surprised that JRiver still doesn't offer it.

[pcstockton]

I have a Sunfire TSEQ12 in my living room, a Sunfire TSEQ10 in my home office and a Sunfire True Subwoofer in my masterbedroom.   All simply put out too much output when playing (for example) that Cowboy Junkies track.  I fear they might be bottoming and certainly it sounds over-bassed and I really do fear stuff falling off my walls.

Maybe not the point but, why do you need all of these subwoofers?  I can imagine with all of these, not set-up well for crossover/limiting, you are quite bass heavy.

-Patrick

[mdogbucket]

Here's how I use the EQ in a quick simple way that could be beneficial for anyone.  Play an album and open the EQ window moving the sliders for bass, midrange and treble regions until you get sound that is balanced for your room and system (you get very good at doing this on the fly accurately once you've played with the EQ a few times).  Then ideally you would hit memory and apply those settings to either the track you were listening to or, more likely, that entire album.  Now anytime you play that again it will be optimized for the best sound possible. 

On any great sounding tracks that you wish to hear pure and bit perfect, you would apply no EQ settings and not tamper with anything.  The level of musical enjoyment and satisfaction would be immensely better than either suffering through all the bad recordings as-is, or having to manually EQ them each time.

[DoubtingThomas]

Maybe not the point but, why do you need all of these subwoofers?  I can imagine with all of these, not set-up well for crossover/limiting, you are quite bass heavy.

-Patrick

I guess I don't understand the question.  I have separate amps/speakers in my living room, home office and master bedroom, each with it's own subwoofer (no sub in the garage or master bedroom bathroom systems...).

[DoubtingThomas]

Here's how I use the EQ in a quick simple way that could be beneficial for anyone.  Play an album and open the EQ window moving the sliders for bass, midrange and treble regions until you get sound that is balanced for your room and system (you get very good at doing this on the fly accurately once you've played with the EQ a few times).  Then ideally you would hit memory and apply those settings to either the track you were listening to or, more likely, that entire album.  Now anytime you play that again it will be optimized for the best sound possible. 

On any great sounding tracks that you wish to hear pure and bit perfect, you would apply no EQ settings and not tamper with anything.  The level of musical enjoyment and satisfaction would be immensely better than either suffering through all the bad recordings as-is, or having to manually EQ them each time.

Back in the 80's... I used to keep an index card with each album which listed my best eq settings so I could re-adjust for each album played.  This feature request simply automates my old index card system.

[pcstockton]

sorry but needing to EQ everything seems to entail you have crappy hifi.  Get some better gear.  You wont need EQ or loudness buttons, Treble or Bass knobs etc.....

-Patrick

[mdogbucket]

sorry but needing to EQ everything seems to entail you have crappy hifi.  Get some better gear.  You wont need EQ or loudness buttons, Treble or Bass knobs etc.....

-Patrick

It's annoying and foolish comments like this that give the internet a bad rep.  Patrick, you clearly don't read very well and I don't want to devolve this thread any further by getting into a pissing match with you about who's got a better system (though it happens that I do:)  I was a high-end dealer for 15 years.

The point is, JRiver could become a much better and more useful system for audiophiles and non-audiophiles alike.

[6233638]

I wouldn't mind being able to change VST presets selectively like this.
 
I don't have much use for selective EQ though. I'm more of the opinion that you calibrate your system and shouldn't have to touch the EQ after that. I'm not opposed to it if that's what people want though.

[crisnee]

With all due respect, this completely misses the point.  Most recordings are far from ideal and could use some minor EQ to make them more listenable.  So YES it's easy to see when a song needs some boost at 60hz and some reduction at 1-3K to make it much better.  Most recording engineers today mix music to the lowest common denominator, which means compressed radio play and poor car and portable systems.

Again, bit perfect playback is the ideal for those recordings that are really well balanced and of demonstration quality, but you're kidding yourself if you believe that most recordings fall into that category.  The vast majority need help and a generic loudness boost is not nearly the answer.  Being able to memorize EQ settings would be a godsend and it's a feature that's available with inferior players like iTunes, so I'm just surprised that JRiver still doesn't offer it.

I agree with this completely. Many recordings are sub par and it has very little to nothing to do with the quality of the play back system as somebody said.

It would be nice to have memorized eq curves although I'd not have the patience to set them up per track.

In the mean time one could set up general eqs for certain types of recordings that lack or have too much of certain aspects of sound and store them in separate zones. Just switch to the zone for said albums and... you might end up having a hell of a lot of zones.

Chris

[crisnee]

sorry but needing to EQ everything seems to entail you have crappy hifi.  Get some better gear.  You wont need EQ or loudness buttons, Treble or Bass knobs etc.....

-Patrick

Perhaps you can't tell the difference between bad and good recordings? Or you have a magical audio system that corrects bad recordings, instead of displaying what they are.

I can certainly see why someone would want to try to make bad recordings sound better, be it via EQ or whatever. But getting a better system isn't going to do it. If anything, the better system will expose faults even more clearly.

And then there are people who are particularly sensitive to certain sounds and frequencies, or they like their music to sound a certain way, and who are we to say that they should get a better hi-fi to remedy their issues or satisfy their tastes?

Chris

[DoubtingThomas]

In the mean time one could set up general eqs for certain types of recordings that lack or have too much of certain aspects of sound and store them in separate zones. Just switch to the zone for said albums and... you might end up having a hell of a lot of zones.

Zone switch would do that yes, but not automatically from PlayingNow.  It would require manually switching the zone as needed.

[Vocalpoint]

Some of it is unlistenable without EQ or until it is remastered.

Maybe un-listenable to you - on your gear. Please do not casually impart your assumptions as applying to everyone.

If "pure" playback results in "uneven" then that's what I get - and I am totally fine with it.

Should I whip out my oils and touch up a masters painting on the wall because I thought it "uneven"?

Each to their own I suppose.

VP