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[Martin166]

Hello JR MC team and developers,

Itīs years ago that I started with MC16 because of its ability to handle VST effects for video playback. In the past I always looked for a player with ASIO and VST option for my concert and music videos and I was happy to finally find MC.
But there is one point that I noticed immediately: You donīt have the possibility to save DSP-presets with whole routing and settings for MC onboard and VST effects. So the idea of pro audio in a video player was unfortunately not thought out to the end.

And because of this I posted to the support:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74354.msg504419#msg504419
and
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=75837.msg514228#msg514228

The years have passed, we are now on version 19 and I thought: Give it another try. So I bought MC19.
I was quite disappointed when I saw that I still cannot realise it: There are still no DSP presets. And also the "Zone" option doesnīt work for this (as MC beta team member "mojave" mentioned) because the different settings of VST-effects are not saved with different zones, only the settings for the MC onboard tools work correctly.

Iīm very much into digital pro audio, so I told my studio mates about my new found JR MC years ago. They were immediately enthused as I mentioned the VST option. But what do you think was their first question considering this?: "Can we save DSP-presets with whole routing and settings?" I said, sorry, no. But I added that I wrote to the support without doubts that this important feature will be implemented soon. And they said they want to wait until it is implemented.
Do you know that at least about ten of my friends would have bought your player if the feature was not ignored? And I think there are many pro audio users who would want this - of course the majority does not deal with VST and pro audio tools, so I only can appeal to you not to forget the minority.
Consider this:
I (and many other people) have got many concert and music videos. Every video has a different sound quality that needs to be adjusted and improved, especially when playing back with studio monitors or in my rehearsal room with the PA. With my high quality VST effects (that cannot be compared with most JR MC onboard tools - even of course in pricing) I really get excellent results.
But ervery video is different and I donīt want to adjust ervey single onboard and VST effect (even with presets for one FX) and having to remember what effect I once had adjusted with care for one videoīs sound. This really sucks and is extremly uncomfortable.

So please tell me why canīt you do this and solve the problem by fulfilling my request? It cannot be so much difficult as nearly almost all pro audio tools offer this feature (even cheap audio tools like "Virtual Audio Stream" by DDMF which I would use if there werenīt excellent JR MC onboard tools that I donīt want to miss!)

(And finally I want to add that I also miss some very simple buttons or shortcuts (without first programming and starting a Hotkey program) like in VLC:
1. Adjust video - audio sync in 50 millisecond steps, positive and negative values (remember: simple shortcuts, not adjusting a special window and typing in a value)
and
2. Loop video from point A to B
3. Adjust video playback speed (again with simple shortcuts or buttons, with the audio option of timestretching vs. resampling))

And as I donīt want to be unfair I have to point out positive things on JR MC : I think some of the onboard audio tools are great, especially the reverb (arena and concert room). Also the description and tool tips (even in German language) are really exemplary now in v19. And in the end the option for VST-effects in a video player is great and meets pro audio demands. And there are more things. I appreciate all this and have to say thank you.
"If perfect audio is your goal..." - These are your words on your homepage. So pleeeeaaase think out the pro audio point to its end and add DSP presets as soon as possible that work correctly with both: VST fx and MC onboard fx. This would be so much appreciated (also by many other users) and please report back and let me know. Thank you. 

[mojave]

2. Loop video from point A to B

You can use the playback range tag to set the start and end point for a video. If you want multiple segments of the video, you can create Particles, which are virtual files, and set a playback range for each Particle. 

Once a playback range has been set, you can use the Repeat icon (top right of screen) and set it to "Repeat Playing Now" or "Repeat Current Item." Now your video will repeat from A to B.

[robydago]

+1 for DSP presets.

I'm not PRO or audiophile at all.
I use DSP to have night mode, volume levelling, 5.1 channels volume changes (I'm getting oder and I need to pump up the center channel to be able to understand movies :-) ), etc.
But as different settings are needed depending on what and when I listen to something, not having DSP presets is a little annoying.

Thanks.

[Matt]

In a coming build:
Changed: VST effect settings and presets are stored per-zone (sorry, but you may need to reconfigure your VST effects one time).

Remember that loading a VST effect in multiple zones at once requires the VST itself support multiple instances (ie. not use global variables in its code).  Some effects will handle this fine, and some will not.

[Matt]

From a program design perspective, zones and ZoneSwitch are the answer to having multiple sets of settings.

Zones are DSP settings that just happen to include some other things you might want to customize like output devices, video playback settings, etc.

We might someday add a simplified system for use cases like "Bass Boost On" vs "Bass Boost Off", but the problem is deceptively complex from our side.  I'm also not sure it's clearly superior to zones since it adds a new layer of complexity in an effort to simplify something.  So please don't expect any movement on this particular front for v19.

[robydago]

well it seems my request was useless: jriver effects (the ones i'm using) settings are saved per zone.
didn't know that. great. i'll start playing with zones.

[Martin166]

Remember that loading a VST effect in multiple zones at once requires the VST itself support multiple instances (ie. not use global variables in its code).  Some effects will handle this fine, and some will not.

Is this because you can playback two different zones at the same time? And why can you do so, for what purpose?

In a coming build:
Changed: VST effect settings and presets are stored per-zone (sorry, but you may need to reconfigure your VST effects one time).

Can you please tell me when this build will be available (raw guess)? Thanks.

[Martin166]

Have you ever seen how a sequencer software (DAW) like "Samplitude" or "Cubase" saves so-called mixer presets? (Snapshots of the mixer state: The settings for one or more mixer channels including input and output volume, panning, EQing, VST-effects and their single settings and routing order of the whole audio path)

These are very small preset-files with only a few KB. Very easy to name and to handle.

[Vocalpoint]

Is this because you can playback two different zones at the same time? And why can you do so, for what purpose?

We do it all the time. I can have a zone called HD Audio sending something to my main media room. Another zone could be sending a different album to my studio and yet another could be sending a playlist up to my wife's office. All coming from one MC instance and each zone could be using the same VST effect.

Dependent on the VST effect - playback could easily fail if the same effect is used in multiple zones - but only a single instance of an effect is allowing to be active at any given time. Since one has no way of knowing whose effects work in multiple zones and whose do not - one would need to be really careful when assigning any VST FX to zones.

Over here - bit perfect is the prime directive so we would never use any zone FX- but I can see issues for those who are bent on including VST FXs in different zones.

VP

[Ninouchka]

So, you want something like Cantabile Performer, but with video support, inside MC?

Ask this at cantabile's forum, its a lot of work and not really the meaning of Media Center.
For sure not in this price range.
Matt and his team are working daily to provide us a cheap, very good software media player,
with ASIO support. I worked for 30 years in Pro Audio and Video. I still use Nuendo and
Pro Tools.
where do you get such support and updates, that JRiver MC offers?
What you ask, is a bit much for programming and time that this takes.
I, for sure, and I guess a lot of MC19 users are really happy with what we already got.

Let's hope you will find what you need. Maybe nuendo Live with cantabile?

[Martin166]

Ask this at cantabile's forum, its a lot of work and not really the meaning of Media Center.
For sure not in this price range.

What you ask, is a bit much for programming and time that this takes.

Why should it be not the meaning of Media Center?? I always thought the pro audio aspect was one of the main points. Itīs one of the top titles of MC homepage.

Not in this price range? Look at "Virtual Audio Stream" by DDMF. It is $29. And it easily can save such DSP presets. I donīt think that it would be too hard work to implement it.

We do it all the time. I can have a zone called HD Audio sending something to my main media room. Another zone could be sending a different album to my studio and yet another could be sending a playlist up to my wife's office. All coming from one MC instance and each zone could be using the same VST effect.

You see, these are things I really donīt need. And I really canīt imagine many people who would want to watch videos in different rooms at the same time. I think those people can afford more than one computer machine.
And I canīt imagine that this feature should top the pro audio aspect...

[Vocalpoint]

You see, these are things I really donīt need. And I really canīt imagine many people who would want to watch videos in different rooms at the same time. I think those people can afford more than one computer machine. And I canīt imagine that this feature should top the pro audio aspect...

Well - you obviously need more time to really understand how people use this product. Because the zone concept is VERY popular and used by many.

However - speaking as a commercial studio operator (aka "pro audio") over here - I am trying to understand how having a few VST effects inline during playback - suddenly makes this a pro audio request? Media Center specifically said "perfect audio" is the goal and has never boasted that "pro audio" was one of it's main points to my knowledge.

MC is - one of the finest audiophile apps available - but being able to use a 10 dollar VST effect (or save presets) in the playback chain doesn't suddenly qualify it as "pro audio".

VP

[Martin166]

Well - you obviously need more time to really understand how people use this product. Because the zone concept is VERY popular and used by many.

However - speaking as a commercial studio operator (aka "pro audio") over here - I am trying to understand how having a few VST effects inline during playback - suddenly makes this a pro audio request? Media Center specifically said "perfect audio" is the goal and has never boasted that "pro audio" was one of it's main points to my knowledge.

MC is - one of the finest audiophile apps available - but being able to use a 10 dollar VST effect (or save presets) in the playback chain doesn't suddenly qualify it as "pro audio".

VP

Sorry, but a good workflow and comfortable preset management is indeed one of the main aspects of pro audio software. In this point every pro audio user will agree with me.

Please ask pro audio people like producers what they would answer about your 10 dollar VST effect and your statement "I am trying to understand how having a few VST effects inline during playback - suddenly makes this a pro audio request?"
I can assure you that there are high quality VSTīs for hundreds of dollars and you cannot set them equal to freeware or MC onboard tools.

And indeed you come closer to "perfect audio" when you meet "pro audio" demands. Again pro audio users or user who learn about good VST FX will agree with me.

I am more and more aware that I am not the target audience for MC. I actually need a SIMPLE video player with SIMPLE buttons and shortcuts for comfortable adjustments and features (like VLC) with a pro audio engine and pro audio features. Unfortunately somethging like this doesnīt seem to exist...

[Vocalpoint]

Sorry, but a good workflow and comfortable preset management is indeed one of the main aspects of pro audio software. In this point every pro audio user will agree with me.

I do agree - if  Media Center was designed for a typical pro audio workflow - but it isn't designed for that. I deal with 4 pro studios everyday - none of us would ever use Media Center within our workflows. We do professional grade multimedia, voiceover and of course multi-track audio work. As "pro" audio as it gets. But wherever I see my voiceover work being cut into a typical video project - Final Cut Pro, Premiere and Sony Vegas are what I see in action.

And indeed you come closer to "perfect audio" when you meet "pro audio" demands. Again pro audio users or user who learn about good VST FX will agree with me.

Disagree. Perfect audio to one person is not necessarily "pro audio". Many folks including probably a large portion of this forum have no idea what "pro audio" is. And it's not some mystical "wonder world" either. It's simply advanced audio/visual "work" where one gets paid. And yes - we use more expensive gear (generally). but even that does not guarantee that it sounds better

I actually need a SIMPLE video player with SIMPLE buttons and shortcuts for comfortable adjustments and features (like VLC) with a pro audio engine and pro audio features. Unfortunately something like this doesn't seem to exist...

We love Media Center (for both audio AND video) but it's really targeted to home entertainment  - not the studio. I look at MC as the perfect media "consumption" tool - where MC is "Play" and Sony Vegas 12 or Adobe Premiere is "Work" when it comes to video. But that it to be expected for when MC is a 49 dollar app.

If video is your thing - MC provides an awesome movie experience for the family - but it's simply not a studio grade tool.

Good luck with the search.

VP

[JimH]

Pro Audio Split

[Martin166]

"NEW: JRiver audio engine as an ASIO driver"
When I saw this headline on the forum I thought: Wow! , there are really special and amazing features for this family tool.

In a coming build:
Changed: VST effect settings and presets are stored per-zone (sorry, but you may need to reconfigure your VST effects one time).

Matt added the feature he was asking for. Isn't the search over?

Can you please tell me when this build will be available (raw guess)? Thanks.

[JimH]

Next week.