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Author Topic: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?  (Read 4835 times)

ivb

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Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« on: November 23, 2013, 02:02:28 pm »

I use SageTV for my back-end DVR, and for right now I'd prefer not to cut over to MC.  I'm trying to find a way to integrate them so I can use SageTV to record TV, and MC as the front-end.

I looked through the web service interface, it looks like thats to allow third party software to control the MC player. But, I didn't see anything about updating the library. Is that not an option?

I ask as I'm not sure I can modify how SageTV is creating filenames for TV recordings, its currently <Showname>-<EpisodeName>-<EpisodeID>-<a 0 or 1 not sure why>.<filetype>. Just pointing MC at the TV folder doesn't allow MC to get any metadata (description, season #, episode #). Was wondering if I could just write something so SageTV updated MC directly.
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MrC

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2013, 02:17:37 pm »

You could have MC auto-import Sage-created content.

You can add/modify MC database entries in several ways.  Probably the easiest would be via a scripting language and using MCWS and/or MPL import.  Alternatively, you can use the various MC interfaces discussed in the DevZone wiki.
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JimH

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2013, 02:19:04 pm »

You should be able to set MC's Auto Import options to import the recorded files automatically.  MC should use the filename to fill in metadata.  Read about Carnac on the Wiki.
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2013, 02:35:40 pm »

oh ok, I misread that wiki bit, thought there was just the one service.  The filename seems to be inadequate since it doesn't have a season # or episode # in the file, just the series name, episode name, and episode ID. I set to auto-import but its not picking up any of the details.

Off to read now, many thanks.
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2013, 02:49:53 pm »

There's an option in Sage you need to enable, so that it includes season and episode numbers in the filenames.

Turn that option on, and MC will import them just fine.  If you already tried , it'll take a bit more work to get those files already imported recognized.
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2013, 02:50:59 pm »

I do exactly what you're looking for.  It works beautifully.

I can help more if you need, but I'm not at my PC till later.
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2013, 03:24:26 pm »

oh sweet, thanks, found it!

I'd love to hear details about MC<-SageTV integration, and what your driver was for moving away from Sage for a GUI.
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JimH

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 04:22:27 pm »

Here's a board on Sage, where you might find out more:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=24.0

I'll move this topic there later.
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2013, 04:28:39 pm »

ooops, thanks, didn't even think to look under "Devices". Feel free to move it now.
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nwboater

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2013, 07:17:31 pm »

I too used SageTV to record TV with all else done in MC for a long time. There were some real advantages to this approach:
1. SageTV is  a very mature PVR with a LOT of community developed addons several of which we found useful.
2. When we recorded movies in Sage they would be imported into MC as Movies, not TV shows. Now that we are using MC for TV I have to change tags and do a search for the Movie metadata and cover for each movie.

I dropped SageTV for the following reasons:
1. I have long wanted the convenience of one Media Application, especially for my non techy wife.
2. I want to support JRiver.
3. We have a lot of DSP effects in MC that would not be functional when watching Live TV in Sage. (possibly  this may not now be a problem with some of the new methods MC has created to import audio from other programs.)
4. SageTV is now an unsupported product and will probably someday die.

Cheers,
Rod
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2013, 07:43:05 pm »

What type of build do you have at your TV? Did you find an extender equivalent low power low noise config?
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nwboater

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2013, 08:35:05 pm »

What type of build do you have at your TV? Did you find an extender equivalent low power low noise config?

The Sage Extenders are great little boxes!

I purpose built our HTPC and it is not very low power. It's a quad core about 2-3 years old. We use Sleep and MC wakes it for TV recording. Fan noise isn't bad but would be nice if a little more quiet. We don't use a receiver so go straight from Soundcard to power amps.

Cheers,
Rod
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 01:43:17 pm »

Here's a basic description of my setup, which sounds basically just like what you are looking to accomplish:

SageTV handles all PVR duties.  It is installed on my main "server" (running in the basement man cave).  It records to M:\Recordings\ and has that option described above enabled.  The ONLY time I ever actually open SageTV is when I want to watch something live, which almost never happens (basically just when a buddy comes over and wants to watch some sports event).

I have the SageTV Web Server plugin installed, and use that to schedule any new recordings, etc.

JRiver MC 19 is also installed on that machine and running in Library Server mode.  I've added M:\Recordings\ as an Auto-Import watched directory.  Any new recordings are automatically picked up by MC and imported, usually within 1-10 minutes from when the recording finishes.  Because of the way SageTV handles "seamless" recording, I have noticed that long-continuous strings of recordings with my HD-PVRs don't get imported until the whole "chain" of recordings has completed (so, if it records one show on HBO from 9-10pm, and then another from 10-11pm, and then a third from 11 - 11:30pm, none of them will show until 11:32pm or so).

Essentially, this is all that is needed.  MC properly imports the files as they are recorded, marks them as [Media Sub Type] TV Show or Movie, parses the filenames (with that option enabled) to get the Season and Episode numbers, and then looks up the proper metadata for the recordings all automatically.  The only times this fails are:

1. News programs, which often don't have good Season and Episode numbers available in SageTV.  A good example of this is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.  These import as TV Shows properly, but since they don't parse properly without season and episode numbers, they get imported by default as [Name] = "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" or something similarly useless.  You can solve these issues on a case-by-case basis by adding Tag On Import rules specific to the show.

2. A simpler problem is when the Series Name provided by SageTV doesn't match the string needed to find a show in the TVDB.  A good example of this might be "Star Trek TNG", by which you mean, Star Trek: The Next Generation.  This is simpler to solve because MC automatically ads a Series ID tag for any series you've looked up manually before, and then uses that key to look up future episodes of that particular show, instead of searching by the text in the [Series] tag.  So, using that example, if you want to keep calling Star Trek episodes "Star Trek TNG", all you have to do is find ONE in your Library somewhere that is tagged well, then right-click and do the manual Get Movie and TV Info lookup.  Change the search as needed to find the proper info for that show, select the TVDB result in the list, and hit apply.  Now, any show where [Series] = "Star Trek TNG" will be automatically "mapped" to TVDB Series ID 71470, and will work automatically in the future.  If you don't like the way the series name looks as it comes in from SageTV, then you can use the Tag On Import rules to fix it however you'd like.

3. Episodes with oddball durations (oversized or super-short).  The way MC's logic to decide if a video import is a TV Show or Movie works is basically based on length.  If a recording is longer than 1 hour (the limit is actually something like 70 minutes, to account for buffers on both ends of a recording), it'll be classified as a Movie.  If a recording is shorter than one hour, it'll come in as a TV Show, unless it is REALLY short, where it will probably come in as [Media Sub Type] = blank.  The smarts are actually a bit smarter than that, so it rarely is an issue, but I do occasionally see a "season finale" come in tagged as a Movie.  This is easiest to just fix as you go, but if it happens with a particular series regularly (as it would if Sherlock on the BBC ever comes back) then you could use Tag on Import rules to fix it, of course.
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 01:52:04 pm »

I'm happy to provide additional details as needed.  Just ask.

I'd lost this thread for a bit when Jim moved it, but I'm on it now.
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 02:33:03 pm »

awesome thanks, those issues seem minor.

What hardware do you have at the TV?
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2013, 02:42:40 pm »

awesome thanks, those issues seem minor.

What hardware do you have at the TV?

Home built HTPC, and a Yamaha AVR.
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2013, 02:43:29 pm »

tiny/quiet machine, or workhorse?
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2013, 03:07:43 pm »

tiny/quiet machine, or workhorse?

I play games on it, so I want a beefy machine for the GPU.  It is in a nice Lian Li HTPC case (which has since been discontinued but which is similar to the PC-C60).  It is reasonably quiet.  I have a nice Noctua CPU cooler in it, set to the lowest speed, and all of the stock case fans were replaced with nicer Noctua fans.  But, the GPU's fan is still not the quietest thing on the planet (by far the loudest thing in the case) when it ramps up.  It doesn't ramp up unless I do something 3D though, and it isn't too bad (it is an older Radeon 6870, which is fairly quiet, but if I was replacing it I'd be looking at an Nvidia GPU this gen).

For all the other HTPC duties (which is basically just media playback, all the big drives and recording devices, set top boxes, and everything else are in the basement where it doesn't matter), it wouldn't matter.  If I ever expand to additional TVs, I'll probably use Mac Minis (running Windows in Parallels or Bootcamped), or maybe an ASUS VivoPC or an Intel NUC.  As it is, we don't have TVs in our bedrooms (on purpose), and all of the other rooms where I might want content already have PCs (the office and the basement man-cave).

It works quite well.  Of course, my Macbook Pro (with Parallels) can be used anywhere, and so I have access to my full Library from everywhere in the house.
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ivb

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2013, 03:25:07 pm »

Thanks. I'm also contemplating building an HTPC gaming rig, I have a nice case, power supply, 1TB drive for game storage so it would be $900ish for the guts + SSD. At least that would be re-usable, instead of $650 on Xbone/PS4 that wouldn't be used much.
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glynor

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Re: Can a 3rd party program update MC library?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2013, 03:38:58 pm »

Even something of this class would stomp the stuffing out of a XBone or PS4:
http://techreport.com/review/25584/tr-fall-2013-system-guide/3

If I had some existing components to reuse, I'd probably do something roughly akin to what they suggest in the Editor's Choice build.  My main difference would be that I would strongly consider going with an Nvidia GTX 770 instead for the GPU, or maybe even backing off a bit (saving some money) and going with a GTX 760 as they offer as an alternative in the Sweet Spot build.  I would also NOT get a K-series CPU.  Haswell CPUs don't overclock well at all, and you're not going to OC in a HTPC anyway because of the noise.  Save money on it by getting a non-K series CPU, run it at stock, and enjoy the extra features that Intel is now randomly lopping off of their K-series chips (like VT-d).

And, this is coming from a bit of an AMD fanboy.  But, AMDs GPUs this gen, while they perform nice, are being pushed to thermal limits to get that performance, and they've been having some problems that point to a lack of engineering resources.  That isn't surprising considering all the layoffs they've had, and... I don't know.  I'd probably go Nvidia.  Especially in a HTPC where noise matters.  I'd certainly avoid the Hawaii chip, as it is a heat monster (and creeps up on 50dB).

Of course, Nvidia's drivers are still a pain, but it seems like AMD has been re-infected with that disease again lately, so it is probably a wash.
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