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Author Topic: My Diagnosis  (Read 3822 times)

KingSparta

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My Diagnosis
« on: December 06, 2013, 08:58:40 am »

...really just an excuse to say Hi KS...

it doesnt address your problem but I found this (now a bit old)  tutorial from AlexB useful when messing with Video cover art.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=46695.msg321372#msg321372

cheers
David (aka Samson)

HI, Guess what I have been diagnosed with now "Gastroparesis"

They did a series of xrays for one min each every 15 mins for 90 mins, after I ate radio active food.

It had a funny taste, but it showed them my stomach is not emptying like it should.

I am thinking that's why I have GERD, been taking meds for years for it.

I go back to the doc on the 12th, for him to tell me the bad news, he also took biopsies.

I'm falling apart it seems.

other than that I guess there may be an issue with MC since matt said he could reproduce the issue with A DVD.
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Samson

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My Diagnosis
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 03:42:25 pm »

Yeah, I too had the radioactive egg sandwich..but in my case following complications after reflux (GERD) surgery.My result was normal (whatever that means ;-). Gastric emptying and the whole area of gastrointestinal motility (transit speed through the gut, gastric emptying etc) is still poorly understood.In large studies they have determined that there is a poor correlation with symptoms of gastroparesis (slow stomach emptying into the small bowel) and test results on scintigraphic emptying (the radioactive sandwich).In fact recent studies observe that symptoms with rapid and delayed emptying may be nearly indistinguishable ! What this means is that the interpretation of the test is a bit difficult regarding things like sensitivity and specificity etc.What is it really telling you ? I also suspect that there would be a wide intra-individual variation to the test result although I have no evidence at hand.This would mean the result one day could be greatly different another day.

Bottom line dont worry to much about it.About  two thirds of "gastroparesis" turns out to be idiopathic (unknown) and most of those overlap strongly with so called "functional disorders" (doctor code for change of function but not structure and we suspect stress related....google ROME III FGID's). The whole area of "functional somatic syndromes" has been massively researched in recent decades and moved away from "psychogenic/psychiatric" associations as we have learnt more how stress causes real physical and physiological changes.Indeed the psychiatrists diagnostic manual (DSM5) totally re wrote this section,dropping many diagnoses alltogether. I am not a shrink but I had been advocating this for decades.

The diagnosis to exclude is diabetes accounting for most of the other third of causes for gastroparesis.Its easy to exclude with testing.The remaining 5% of causes will be some other illnesses, side effects from medication and post surgical damage to the vagus nerve (controlling gastric emptying). Diabetics often develop nerve damage (neuropathies) which can include the vagus nerve.

Umm..I think we've wandered a tad off topic !?

Cheers KS

David
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KingSparta

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My Diagnosis
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 06:37:41 pm »

the reason for this test was I had a endoscopy (do to blood on a smear test)
and the endoscopy was about 12 hours after I had last eaten, and I still had food in my stomach.
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Samson

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 12:50:06 am »

Interesting. You'd have to ask your gastro how often this happens. Also, if no symptoms of gastroparesis (Nausea,vomit,bloat,pain etc) one wonders what if anything would be done about it apart from excluding major causes like diabetes.
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KingSparta

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 07:39:34 pm »

I always have Nausea, bloat, pain

eating soup is not as bad as other foods.

I do not vomit, but was at night before I started taking NEXIUM type meds (maybe starting in 2003) after I go to bed.

I am wondering if this is the cause of my GERD but never diagnosed properly. something I will be asking when I see gastro dr. on the 12th.
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Samson

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 12:05:31 am »

The symptoms are non specific, meaning they could be due to gastroparesis or to something else, even irritable bowel syndrome. Likewise nexium will work for a variety of different conditions (not specific for only one condition) provided that neutralizing stomach acid proves beneficial eg GERD, stomach ulcers etc.It will be up to your gastro to make a judgement call as to both likely diagnosis and best treatment.

Certainly gastroparesis could aggravate any tendency to reflux (GERD) contents into the oesophagus by increasing the back pressure in the stomach.GERD would still require some incompetence of the valve between stomach and oesophagus. This is usually tested by sticking a tube down and measuring the pressures (manometry) in stomach and oesophagus to determine if the valve is working.

The simplest way of treating GERD is to stick the  head of your bed on 6" blocks and don't eat close to bedtime.
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KingSparta

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 10:16:17 am »

As a side note someone contacted me after reading this (He did not want to air his laundry in a public forum).

he was also diagnosed with the same thing, and we have similar symptoms, he has had problems with doctors who do not know or understand this condition.

he is on medication for ulcers however.

I just ate soup and now I have an upset stomach, but it is much better than the steak and potato aftermath last night.

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Samson

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 04:13:04 pm »

As I said, there are many things that can cause these same symptoms.The second problem is finding a pathology or abnormal test result doesn't guarantee it is the cause of the problem. We talk in terms of true/false positives/negatives and predictive algorithms. Unfortunately, contrary to belief by some, Medicine is far from an exact science.

Doctors don't understand many things about illnesses. Like everyone else, and as Donald Rumsfeld said, "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." Others have added, "unknowable unknowns" and "unknown knowns"


 
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JimH

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 05:40:12 pm »

Doctors don't understand many things about illnesses. Like everyone else, and as Donald Rumsfeld said, "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." Others have added, "unknowable unknowns" and "unknown knowns"
Are you Donald Rumsfeld?
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Samson

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 01:07:22 am »

Are you Donald Rumsfeld?

Jim, you caught me.....well ok I know the question was 'tongue in cheek' (although I can't say exactly that's a known known ;-)

I am just a medical specialist which is why I know doctors don't understand many things about illness.

Even as an Aussie I did like the Rumsfeld quote though, just a pity it came in relation to the "weapons of mass destruction"
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KingSparta

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 06:54:34 pm »

Today the Dr. told me what seems like what Donald Rumsfeld stated, but about this Diagnosis of Gastroparesis.

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld

it is interesting that he knew how long it took or would have taken to digest that McDonalds' egg biscuit. he said normally the stomach will empty in 90 mins or less, and mine would have taken 238 mins to empty after eating the biscuit. He said my condition was very bad. and gave me an option to take Reglan, but the side effects and some of them non-reversible are too overwhelming. as a matter of fact the drug company is protected by the FDA because of the side effects are so bad they wanted to make sure the company is not in the courts trying to protect them self's for the rest of the companies production of the drug.

I declined, and I must try to stay on a Diet that will aid in my digestion, and some of my favorite things are not on the list.

He also stated my GURD was caused by this condition, and just has never been properly diagnosed.
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Samson

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 11:31:31 pm »

By "doctor" I hope you mean specialist gastroenterologist. I am not, my background being more neurological and spine...but coincidentally I had the gastric emptying test and under the care of a professor of gastroenterology.I also had surgery for GERD. So I know my way a little bit around the area.

so anyone suspected of having gastroparesis should be tested for the known causes. Example, diabetes, and if present treated. This may also improve (potentially) the gastroparesis.

However, In terms of diagnosis the American Neurogastroenterology and Motility Society and Society of Nuclear Medicine defines gastric retention more than 60% at 2 h and/or more than 10% at 4 h being diagnostic of gastroparesis.(further reference, Abell TL, Camilleri M, Donohoe K, et al. Consensus recommendations for gastric emptying scintigraphy: a joint report of the American Neurogastroenterology and Motility Society and the Society of Nuclear Medicine. Am J Gastroenterol 2008; 103:753–763). Suggest you look at the scan results and discuss with your gastroenterologist.

In terms of treatment with medication metoclopromide (maxolon, Reglan) is a commonly used anti nausea drug.It is also a strong prokinetic, meaning stimulating gastrointestinal motility. It is a great drug,well tolerated and I have injected it into probably thousands of people including family members.It also comes in tablet form, again I have prescribed many times.HOWEVER, imo, it is not intended for long term use due to some pretty impressive side effects which accrue with chronic use. I have seen cases of "tardive dyskinesis" but not often. I saw one case of "oculogyric crisis" when working A&E in early days of practice.

The humble antibiotic erythromycin is also a prokinetic but again not usually a long term prospect. There are many prokinetics that have been tried but usually causing problems with side effects. Newer prokinetics such as Ghrelin are also around but I have no experience with them.

some of the antidepressants have also been used including the tricyclics which in the case of the latter is a paradoxical effect.

The herbal extract STW5 (iberogast) has also been used.

For the more heroic there are surgical options.[Edit- there are also gastric stimulators and injections (botulinum)]

Traditional dietary recommendations include consuming frequent small meals and avoiding roughage and high fat foods.


As alluded to earlier there is generally poor correlation between test result and symptoms. Secondly, predictors of poor response to treatment include certain symptoms and psychological correlates. The symptoms associated with poor response are overall severity of symptoms (not what you would normally expect),bloating....but not gastric emptying rates. When it comes to surgical non responders subgroups include idiopathic and those with pain requiring chronic opiates (narcotics etc). To me this points to a stress or psychological connection and indeed there are fairly high comorbidites with anxiety and depression and psychological therapies are indeed one of the treatment options for gastroparesis. I emphasize this does not mean it is all in your head, even people with cancer benefit from stress management. The mind and body are inexorably linked...unless you believe rumours started by french philosopher Descartes,lol .

other reference- Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2012;28(6):621-628.

Hope my ramblings have helped or given you 'food for thought'



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KingSparta

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Re: My Diagnosis
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 05:20:39 pm »

yes he is a gastroenterologist (he also did MY colonoscopy, in may, I go back in 4 1/2 years for another)

> so anyone suspected of having Gastroparesis should be tested for the known causes.

Yep, did that, I don't have any of the main causes, or anything that can be pointed at.

>> Suggest you look at the scan results and discuss with your gastroenterologist.

That's what we did yesterday, I also seen pictures inside my stomach (yuck), and biopsy negative.

My symptoms are basically I have a full feeling for a long time and a upset stomach after eating.

for now I am taking the Traditional dietary recommendations to see if it helps, unless my condition worsens (I can hold down food, and no bezoar's).

I also am looking into some of the other treatments like iberogast you mentioned, and some other over the counter meds.

I was offered the Reglan, but did not like some of the side effects, and some of them are not reversible if I just happen to be un-lucky.

>> gastric stimulators

we did talk about that but it has it's draw backs, and my condition is not at that point to warrant that procedure.

>> Stress

Nope, since I left management my blood pressure dropped and I am normal now, and I have No stress, I enjoy my self now days.

> Hope my ramblings have helped or given you 'food for thought'

as always.
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