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[astromo]

I've upgraded my unit with some extra graphics grunt, so went in search of the madVR guide:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80253.0
to give it a whirl.

6233638 has put together a fantastic piece of wiki-ness but when I went hunting for it, there was no entry in the obvious spot:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions
Nor was there a link that I could see in the Red October write up.

Is this an oversight or is it intended for some reason that eludes me?

If I'm the only one that thinks this is worthwhile, then fair enough, leave it alone.. 

[jmone]

Done - I've added the link to the thread on the Red October Wiki Page - http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Red_October#More

[JimH]

I added this caution to your edit:

"JRiver recommends using Red October HQ without any modifications for all but advanced users."

Most users should not make changes to the default madVR settings, and the changes themselves can sometimes cause problems.  DirectShow was one of our biggest support problems before Red October and the problems disappeared once we made the switch.

If there are settings that should be tweaked, please propose and discuss them.

[6233638]

Most users should not make changes to the default madVR settings, and the changes themselves can sometimes cause problems.  DirectShow was one of our biggest support problems before Red October and the problems disappeared once we made the switch.

If there are settings that should be tweaked, please propose and discuss them.

The problem is that madVR's scaling settings range from Bilinear which is low quality, but will run perfectly well on integrated graphics, to Jinc scaling with an anti-ringing filter which can require a gaming-class GPU to run smoothly, and there's a big range in-between those two. When you are in the medium quality scaling options, you usually have to trade-off between sharpness and aliasing or ringing artifacts, and this is user preference more than anything else. (I prefer to sacrifice some sharpness to avoid ringing/aliasing)
 
Media Center's display mode switcher is not as advanced as the one in madVR, and does not account for things like film mode (where madVR can reclock a 25fps film to 24p) so you still have to enter the madVR config to set that.
There is also an upcoming feature to deband the image, which people may want to use, but it's not something I would want to leave enabled in a preset, as it depends on the quality of your source material.
 
I have not done a clean install of Media Center for a while so I'm unsure about what your madVR defaults are, but I think it would be useful to offer something in the way of presets for madVR - you could easily have five different levels of quality setting.
 
This might actually be the best way to handle it, as a "lowest" quality setting would be a good way for people to see if their system could even handle madVR at all, before trying the higher quality settings.
I'm happy to have a look over what the MC19 madVR defaults are and make some suggestions, or come up with five quality presets.
 

[jmone]

I added this caution to your edit:

"JRiver recommends using Red October HQ without any modifications for all but advanced users."

Thanks

I'm happy to have a look over what the MC19 madVR defaults are and make some suggestions, or come up with five quality presets.

There was some discussion on this a while ago... and while it makes sense I guess the appeal is not broad enough (and those that care about these settings can work though them).

[glynor]

I think we could use a third preset, tuned to work very well with modern integrated GPUs and older GPUs that can't quite handle ROHQ, but which could do much better than ROST settings.

ROST
ROMQ
ROHQ

[astromo]

One additional future improvement would be to include a function within Direct Show Filters > madVR to:
"Restore Default Settings"
For those who try out some advanced dance moves but then find they've ended playing a game of Twister instead.

[6233638]

One additional future improvement would be to include a function within Direct Show Filters > madVR to:
"Restore Default Settings"
For those who try out some advanced dance moves but then find they've ended playing a game of Twister instead.

Close Media Center (and Media Server) and run %APPDATA%\J River\Media Center 19\Plugins\madvr\restore default settings.bat to restore the madVR default settings.
Before re-opening Media Center, delete %APPDATA%\J River\Media Center 19\Plugins\madvr\ so that it downloads the default Media Center madVR settings next time you try to play a video. (different from the standard madVR defaults)

I think we could use a third preset, tuned to work very well with modern integrated GPUs and older GPUs that can't quite handle ROHQ, but which could do much better than ROST settings.

ROST
ROMQ
ROHQ

Personally, I'd prefer ROHQ presets once you have ROHQ selected, as another set of options that appears below for Lowest/Low/Medium/High/Very High/Custom Quality.

[astromo]

Close Media Center (and Media Server) and run %APPDATA%\J River\Media Center 19\Plugins\madvr\restore default settings.bat to restore the madVR default settings.
Before re-opening Media Center, delete %APPDATA%\J River\Media Center 19\Plugins\madvr\ so that it downloads the default Media Center madVR settings next time you try to play a video. (different from the standard madVR defaults)
Personally, I'd prefer ROHQ presets once you have ROHQ selected, as another set of options that appears below for Lowest/Low/Medium/High/Very High/Custom Quality.

6233638, you're a gun.. 

You might want to put that restore defaults info somewhere useful in your guide (unless I missed it). Even so, a button in the GUI to automate those steps would be worth putting on the to do list for the development team.

[6233638]

You might want to put that restore defaults info somewhere useful in your guide (unless I missed it).

I was just thinking that - I'll add it some time tomorrow.
There's a few things I'd like to update the guide with actually, but I'm a little busy for that right now, and I'd like to wait for the next madVR release before doing a big update.

[kstuart]

I think we could use a third preset, tuned to work very well with modern integrated GPUs and older GPUs that can't quite handle ROHQ, but which could do much better than ROST settings.

ROST
ROMQ
ROHQ

I definitely want to second this request.

( I just ordered an Asus Radeon HD6450 - specifically chosen partially for passive cooling and low profile needed - just to see the level of improvement over the 2009 HD4000 integrated graphics. )

I prefer to sacrifice some sharpness to avoid ringing/aliasing

I think that anyone bothering to use madVR has enough of a "videophile" sensibility that they would make the same choice.

[kstuart]

Done - I've added the link to the thread on the Red October Wiki Page - http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Red_October#More

And I just read that page and the following is not accurate:

" Red October HQ -- Same as above, but adding madVR as the renderer. This is more processor intensive, so it only works well on pretty good CPU's -- i5 or above. "

As stated in this thread, the linked madVR guide thread, the following page and many others, madVR primarily uses the GPU (not the CPU):

http://www.missingremote.com/review/intel-hd-4600-madvr-performance

[astromo]

I think we could use a third preset, tuned to work very well with modern integrated GPUs and older GPUs that can't quite handle ROHQ, but which could do much better than ROST settings.

ROST
ROMQ
ROHQ

I definitely want to second this request.

( I just ordered an Asus Radeon HD6450 - specifically chosen partially for passive cooling and low profile needed - just to see the level of improvement over the 2009 HD4000 integrated graphics. )

I think that anyone bothering to use madVR has enough of a "videophile" sensibility that they would make the same choice.

Nice work.

Personally, I think any plan to provide simple point-and-shoot options for the non-videophile whether it's a 3 stage or 5 stage plan is worthwhile. That way, a simpleton like me can "have a go" and give the whole thing a "suck" to "see" whether it's a lemon or a lime.

[jmone]

And I just read that page and the following is not accurate:

" Red October HQ -- Same as above, but adding madVR as the renderer. This is more processor intensive, so it only works well on pretty good CPU's -- i5 or above. "
....

Updated the wiki to now read:

Red October HQ -- Same as above, but adding madVR as the renderer. This is more GPU intensive, so it only works well on fast, modern DDR5 based GPU's

Let me know of other changes.

[Hendrik]

The big problem with madVR is that it can't be properly configured at runtime, most importantly all its settings are saved system wide and will be picked up by any other apps using madVR as well (and their settings by MC)

Say we provide ROHQ presets:
- Low
- Medium
- High
- Ultra

When are the presets loaded? Load them once into madVR settings and let the user configure it from then on if he wants?
In the same step, screw the global madVR settings and just overwrite with our preset?

As you might imagine, it still kinda violates the concept of RO, which is that everything is supposed to work out of the box, and no system-wide DirectShow settings can mess it up, or are modified by it.
Maybe I should ask madshi to give us a runtime config mode like I build for LAV, which ignores global settings, or something like that.

[jmone]

I too am for RO that just works and it is a great idea if madshi would support a runtime config model as not only could users stay in the MC GUI for madVR settings but it would also prevent changes made by other progs would impacting RO either.  The downside is MC would then need to be able to config all the madVR settings, or have a way of bringing up the madVR setting GUI and then store these in MC for later playback.

[6233638]

I wonder if someone could move the madVR guide from the MC18 section to the MC19 one?
I keep missing when someone has posted in that topic, as I don't really check the MC18 forums.

[jmone]

Done

[6233638]

Thanks.

[kstuart]

That's one reason why there should just be a Media Center Forum, instead of separates ones for each version.  Since unused threads scroll off the first page, there is no compelling reason to separate them, and the above is just one reason for combining them.

[JimH]

I just moved it to the Video board.  It's not something that most users should be doing.

[JimH]

I wonder if someone could move the madVR guide from the MC18 section to the MC19 one?
I keep missing when someone has posted in that topic, as I don't really check the MC18 forums.

Maybe you could subscribe to the thread.  Thanks for helping out.

[kstuart]

I just moved it to the Video board.  It's not something that most users should be doing.

For this specific thread, that is just fine.

Just FYI (I know there are more important things on everyone's plate at the moment):

Over time, I've noted that there are some other threads, where it would be simpler to just post to the bottom of the existing thread (currently in MC18 Forum), rather than start a new thread in MC19, and then link to the old one.

This is particularly true in cases where the development team may be waiting to see how many people really need something changed, before allocating time to it.  Usually GUI stuff...

[6233638]

The big problem with madVR is that it can't be properly configured at runtime, most importantly all its settings are saved system wide and will be picked up by any other apps using madVR as well (and their settings by MC)

Say we provide ROHQ presets:
- Low
- Medium
- High
- Ultra

When are the presets loaded? Load them once into madVR settings and let the user configure it from then on if he wants?
In the same step, screw the global madVR settings and just overwrite with our preset?

As you might imagine, it still kinda violates the concept of RO, which is that everything is supposed to work out of the box, and no system-wide DirectShow settings can mess it up, or are modified by it.
Maybe I should ask madshi to give us a runtime config mode like I build for LAV, which ignores global settings, or something like that.

Have you discussed this with Madshi at all?
It really does seem like this would solve a lot of problems for people.

It's possible to replace someone's configuration with a preset, but it takes a bit of work right now: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86201.msg607160#msg607160

But this shows why it would be really useful for Media Center to offer presets for different machines.