Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[vinchanity]

I recently switched to OSX Mavericks from Mountain Lion. I ran JRiver Media Center 19. When I did the switch to OSX Mavericks, I also had to install a driver for my USB DAC (Chord Chordette USB). When I play DSD/dff files, I now get static that is as loud as the music. Other file formats are fine.

Because of the multiple items that I have to switch, I am not sure whether the issue is in driver for OSX mavericks or the playback in JRiver working with OSX mavericks. I have an open ticket with Chord for the USB DAC.

Are there others with issues hearing loud static playing DSD files? especially with the combo of OSX mavericks and Media Center?

[sandalaudio]

I am having the exact same issue.

I would guess that the problem lies in the new Mavericks compatible driver that Chord provided.
My other DSD capable DACs (Resonessence etc) are all playing fine on the same Mavericks machine with Media Center 19.

When I run Windows on the same computer then the Chord QuteHD plays DSD fine on the Windows MC19.

The problem is, I don't think Chord have any idea about the software and the driver. They seem to have outsourced the whole development to some subcontractor company, so they can never give me any intelligent answer about solving these issues.

[bplexico]

I am using MC 19 and Mavericks - different DAC though - Analog DAC - no issues at all with DSD/DSF file playback. I suspect it may have to do with the driver specific to your playback device (the Chordette). Perhaps other Chord users could chime in?

I assume that under Mountain Lion and with MC 19 you had no issues with DSD/DFF files playing on your Chord Chordette?

[sandalaudio]

Yes. My other DSD DACs work fine with MC19. Only the Chord QuteHD that spits out noise.

Not sure about Mountain Lion. My new Mac came with Mavericks pre-installed and can't roll back to older OS.

I also tried MC18, since MC19 had some changes to the DSD settings menu (removed legacy DoP mode etc), but still the same noise issue on both MC18 and MC19.

Amarra and Audirvana on the same QuteHD/Mavericks combination plays DSD DoP without any issues, so the problem is isolated to the JRiver/Chord DAC combination.

[bplexico]

Did you ever have MC playing DSD/DFF files successfully on your system?

And under Tools->Options->Audio you have Bitstreaming set to DSD?

[sandalaudio]

Yes. As I mentioned above, all my other DSD supported DACs plays DSD files fine on my Mac Mavericks system with MC19.

For example, my Resonessence Labs Herus DAC plays DSD without any noise issues.
Obviously I have the bitstreaming set to DSD.

The issue is specifically to do with incompatibility of Chord DAC playing DSD and JRiver MC on Mac OS Mavericks.

[bplexico]

Ok, apologies, I did not realize you had other DSD capable DACS that you were also running with MC 19 using DSD/DSF/DFF files as output.

Certainly would seem to point to an issue with the Chord driver.

[vinchanity]

I am running Mavericks on a new iMAC with Chord Chordette USB (latest mavericks driver) and MC 19. I have tried MC 18 and same noise. I also tried rolling back to Mountain Lion and MC 19 ... when I do this, I all is good and I don't have the noise. Although this all points to the Chord driver, Chord engineers are currently looking at JRiver Mac compatibility. They are pointing me to the fact that they are running Audirvana and PureMusic without problems. I downloaded trials myself and they do seem to work.
If possible, would a JRiver engineer contact the engineer at Chord to help us through this? I have his contact email is this is possible. It would seem that some say other hardware works and Chord is saying that other software works but this is all getting those of us with Chord Chordette and JRiver MC19 Mac nowhere.

[JohnT]

I am running Mavericks on a new iMAC with Chord Chordette USB (latest mavericks driver) and MC 19. I have tried MC 18 and same noise. I also tried rolling back to Mountain Lion and MC 19 ... when I do this, I all is good and I don't have the noise. Although this all points to the Chord driver, Chord engineers are currently looking at JRiver Mac compatibility. They are pointing me to the fact that they are running Audirvana and PureMusic without problems. I downloaded trials myself and they do seem to work.
If possible, would a JRiver engineer contact the engineer at Chord to help us through this? I have his contact email is this is possible. It would seem that some say other hardware works and Chord is saying that other software works but this is all getting those of us with Chord Chordette and JRiver MC19 Mac nowhere.

Sure, send his contact info to me (johnt at jriver dot com). Thanks.

[vinchanity]

Thanks John. Just sent to you.

[JohnT]

I got it thanks. 
Can we gather some more datapoints on this?  So far, these seem to be the conditions leading to static:

1. OSX Mavericks and new Mavericks driver for the DAC
2. Media Center 18 or 19
3. Playing DSD/DSF/DFF files

Please try a few things:
1. try with Integer mode enabled and disabled and report any difference  (Options / Audio / Audio Device / Device settings / Integer mode)
2. set bitstreaming to "None" so it's converting DSD to PCM and report how it sounds
3. play some high definition PCM content with real-time DSD output encoding enabled and report how it sounds (DSP Studio / Output format / Output Encoding)

Thanks.

[sandalaudio]

I got it thanks.  
Can we gather some more datapoints on this?  So far, these seem to be the conditions leading to static:

1. OSX Mavericks and new Mavericks driver for the DAC
2. Media Center 18 or 19
3. Playing DSD/DSF/DFF files

Please try a few things:
1. try with Integer mode enabled and disabled and report any difference  (Options / Audio / Audio Device / Device settings / Integer mode)
2. set bitstreaming to "None" so it's converting DSD to PCM and report how it sounds
3. play some high definition PCM content with real-time DSD output encoding enabled and report how it sounds (DSP Studio / Output format / Output Encoding)

Thanks.

Yes. the problem I am having is exactly as you described in points 1,2,3.

I have tried your suggestions:

1. Turning Integer Mode ON/OFF did not make a difference. Noisy static either way.
2. Setting bitstream to NONE will make the music play fine. The Chord QuteHD DAC correctly recognises it as PCM.
3. Playing a 96kHz or 192kHz PCM file with DSD encoding makes the same static noise as DSD files.

So it seems only the communication of DoP between JRiver and Chord DAC is the issue here.

Interesting thing is that you can still hear the music playing faintly in the background, at the correct speed, pitch etc. , just masked by heaps of static noise.
I am just guessing but it might be something simple in formatting mismatch, like 24/32bit data etc.

[czakari]

Another data point here:

Chordette Qute DAC, OS X 10.9, MC Mac 19.0.88.

The demo version of MC worked perfectly for me today prior to registering it.

Once I registered, also today, and changed nothing else, now MC is incorrectly identifying the bitrate and samplerate of DSD files -- doubling them, in fact; e.g., a file known to be DSD64/192kHz is being shown by MC as DSD128/384kHz.  Needless to say, this makes things behave oddly and kicks in MC's DSP engine (bleh) since my DAC can't process DSD128/384kHz.

Removed all traces of MC from the computer and reinstalled MC, to no avail.  (I wasn't able to get MC working in demo mode again, however, since it decided that my trial period had expired.  I requested, and got, a trial extension which I gave to MC's dialog box, it accepted it, the program quit on its own, and upon relaunch it was still in "demo expired" mode and no option to extend the trial period was given -- only cancel, purchase, or recover license.)

What's up with that bit/sample rate doubling, I wonder... I suspect that bug is at least partially responsible for the static, at least on my setup.

Edit:

Checked my other computer running OS X 10.8.4 and MC 19.0.88 still in trial mode, with the same DSD files, and that system/version is misreading the sample- and bit-rates, too.  The first version of MC I installed, if I recall correctly, was 19.0.76, and I'm nearly certain it didn't have this DSD identification problem (although clearly my memory isn't playing fair).  Unfortunately, downgrading MC doesn't seem to be a very straightforward process (or at least not an obvious one) as I'll either end up with a prematurely expired trial period or have to use up another restore credit.

Anyway, this might turn out to be an issue separate from the static problem, or maybe not.  If MC isn't reading the sample/bit-rates correctly from the files, who knows what it's actually sending to the DAC.

(Audirvana and PureMusic read these DSD files correctly, for what it's worth.)

[JimH]

The trial mode is the same program.  It's very unlikely to be that.  We're talking with Chord right now.  You could report your problem to them.

[vinchanity]

Can we gather some more datapoints on this?  So far, these seem to be the conditions leading to static:

1. OSX Mavericks and new Mavericks driver for the DAC
2. Media Center 18 or 19
3. Playing DSD/DSF/DFF files

Please try a few things:
1. try with Integer mode enabled and disabled and report any difference  (Options / Audio / Audio Device / Device settings / Integer mode)
2. set bitstreaming to "None" so it's converting DSD to PCM and report how it sounds
3. play some high definition PCM content with real-time DSD output encoding enabled and report how it sounds (DSP Studio / Output format / Output Encoding)

1. No difference with Interger mode enabled or disabled. Same static noise.
2. Audio plays fine converting to PCM.
3. Played 24/96 Flac with DSD output encoding enable. Get static noise.

[czakari]

I can avoid the configuration where the static occurs just by not using DoP for now.  And since no other software (Audirvana, PureMusic) exhibits the static problem, I don't (currently) believe it's an issue solely attributable to the Chordette's USB driver.  If they could fix the issue in the driver, that'd be fine, though.

The bigger concern now, for me anyway, is that MC is quite clearly not getting the sample/bit rate numbers correct on dsf files, and it's not just a cosmetic issue since I can see it causing MC to activate DSP downsampling when it thinks a file is 384kHz (it's really only 192kHz).  It seems like this misreading of critical information could plausibly cause the DSD data stream to be incorrectly modified and then sent to the DAC.  This is reinforced by the ability to tell MC not to downsample the 384kHz stream, at which point it tries to send a 384kHz stream to the DAC and the DAC driver returns an error message stating that 384kHz isn't a supported rate (meaning, somehow MC is sending a 384kHz datastream even though the original source file on disk is only 192kHz).

I installed MC 18.0.219 and it exhibits the same dsf-misreading behavior.

That said, I should probably start a new thread on the topic.  Although it could logically be related to the cause of the static, it's not clear at this time whether that's the case.

[sandalaudio]

I can avoid the configuration where the static occurs just by not using DoP for now.  

Yes. You're right. turning DoP off and having the DSD files converted realtime to PCM is the best solution at the moment.

The reason why I want this issue fixed is mainly because the terrible noise that the DAC spits out is quite wide band, and since DoP bypasses the PC volume control (as it should, since it's raw bitstream), somebody just experimenting with DSD playback without proper precautions might damage their downstream gear (e.g. tweeters) by accident.

The transients are not as aggressive if it's just music, but this noise is really bad. It gave me a huge fright when it unfortunately happened through my headphones.

[czakari]

Yes. You're right. turning DoP off and having the DSD files converted realtime to PCM is the best solution at the moment.

The reason why I want this issue fixed is mainly because the terrible noise that the DAC spits out is quite wide band, and since DoP bypasses the PC volume control (as it should, since it's raw bitstream), somebody just experimenting with DSD playback without proper precautions might damage their downstream gear (e.g. tweeters) by accident.

Just out of curiosity, what's the correct sample/bit-rate on your DSD files (generally speaking)?  What does MC claim for both rates when it's playing any of those files?   What does it claim the sample rate is in the "panes" view for the track info?  Are you able to play those same files with different software; e.g., Audirvana or PureMusic, being the only other two players for OS X I know of that can handle DSD?  If so, what does that software claim for sample/bit-rate?

The sample rate should be 2.8MHz for DSDx1 and 5.6MHz for DSDx2, and bitrate is probably 176kHz, 192kHz, or 384kHz (I've only seen a very few DSD files as 96kHz though obviously it's technically possible for one to exist at any of the usual bitrates).  I'm hoping that you have one/some DSD files that aren't genuinely 384kHz for the purposes of these questions, since I don't have any -- so when my copy of MC is telling me that my DSD files are 384kHz, I know it's wrong.

If MC is messing up those rates for you, like it is for me, it's probably going to create a DoP stream that's wrong and will cause the DAC to do weird things, including play static (be it solo static or overlapping with music).  I've unintentionally forced this odd static to happen while playing with PureMusic's settings.  Might have done it with Audirvana at some point, too, but I'm not sure right now.  In any case, MC appears to be taking the "unintentional" out of my hands and doing it automatically, which isn't so great. ;-)

Edit: it's not 2.6/5.8MHz; it's 2.8/5.6MHz.

[sandalaudio]

Just out of curiosity, what's the correct sample/bit-rate on your DSD files (generally speaking)?  What does MC claim for both rates when it's playing any of those files?   What does it claim the sample rate is in the "panes" view for the track info?  Are you able to play those same files with different software; e.g., Audirvana or PureMusic, being the only other two players for OS X I know of that can handle DSD?  If so, what does that software claim for sample/bit-rate?

Interestingly, the sample rate displayed by MC19 when I play a DSD64 track is 5644kHz, so 5.6MHz. Whether that means MC19 is trying to send a DSD128 data instead of DSD64 data, i'm not too sure. My Chord QuteHD DAC supports DSD64 but not DSD128.

The "Bitrate" on the track panes is blank for all DSD files. The PCM files have some bitrate numbers that depends on the track.

The same files can be played on Audirvana with DoP output to the Chord DAC. It's definitely DoP because the Chord DAC has a colour LED light that shines white for DSD DoP, and blue or green etc for various PCM files. It's easy to tell exactly what data the Chord DAC is receiving. The Chord DAC shines white when I play the DSD DoP from MC19, so it knows it is receiving a DSD file, but it's just noisy.

[czakari]

Interestingly, the sample rate displayed by MC19 when I play a DSD64 track is 5644kHz, so 5.6MHz. Whether that means MC19 is trying to send a DSD128 data instead of DSD64 data, i'm not too sure. My Chord QuteHD DAC supports DSD64 but not DSD128.

The "Bitrate" on the track panes is blank for all DSD files. The PCM files have some bitrate numbers that depends on the track.

The same files can be played on Audirvana with DoP output to the Chord DAC. It's definitely DoP because the Chord DAC has a colour LED light that shines white for DSD DoP, and blue or green etc for various PCM files. It's easy to tell exactly what data the Chord DAC is receiving. The Chord DAC shines white when I play the DSD DoP from MC19, so it knows it is receiving a DSD file, but it's just noisy.

5644kHz is 5.6MHz (5644 / 1000).  That's the sample rate for DSD128.  The correct sample rate that you should be seeing is 2822kHz (2.8MHz) for DSD64.

MC19 on my machine shows a sample rate of 5644 (incorrectly) for DSD64 files and 11288 (incorrectly) for DSD128 files and they should all play at 176 or 192kHz -- not 384kHz like MC is doing -- but I think that's the PCM/DoP bitrate since DSD is itself 1-bit (hence, integer mode).

You and I have the same model of DAC, fyi.  Different amps, though.  But the only LED combo I can remember is the one for raw DSD because all the LEDs are lit for it. :-)

If your QuteHD is showing only the white LED when a track with static is playing, I think that means the DAC isn't able to figure out what it should be doing because it's being sent a sample rate it doesn't support.  (The white LED basically means the DAC is powered up and ready to go.  Any time a valid stream is being decoded, one or more of the RGB LEDs should be lit up in addition to the white one.  So, normally it should be white + (red and/or green and/or blue) depending on the sample rate.)

[sandalaudio]

5644kHz is 5.6MHz (5644 / 1000).  That's the sample rate for DSD128.  The correct sample rate that you should be seeing is 2822kHz (2.8MHz) for DSD64.

You and I have the same model of DAC, fyi.  Different amps, though.  But the only LED combo I can remember is the one for raw DSD because all the LEDs are lit for it. :-)

By white LED, I mean all the LED colours are lit up, which makes the light appear white, rather than red, green, etc. It is different to the power indicator LED that you are describing.

My Chord QuteHD switches over to the DSD mode when DoP is enabled on MC19, but the sound is noisy. You can hear the music faintly behind the static noise, so it is definitely trying to decode the incoming singal as DSD, rather than PCM or failing to recognize at all.

From what I gather so far, it seem like some kind of formatting issue with DSD64/128?

[amargolis]

Any update on this? I'm experiencing the same issue with DSD playback as others have reported. With Chord's new Maverick driver everything up to 192khz works fine.

Are people having these DSD playback issues with other DACs besides the Chord?

[bplexico]

No DSD playback issues with my MSB Analog DAC.

[vinchanity]

I downloaded Media Center 19.0.103 and tested a DSD file with my Chord Chordette QuteHD. I still hear static so no fix on this yet. Any updates from JRiver on progress? I contacted Chord and they tell me that they have not isolated why Media Center is different from other players like Audirvana and PureMusic when it comes to DSD playback on a mac mavericks.

[sandalaudio]

Same here. Just updated to 19.0.103 but the DSD issue with Chord QuteHD has not been resolved.

It seems like there is no active effort from Chord and JRiver get this thing fixed, since the issue has been ongoing since the Mavericks launch.
I am using Audirvana and it plays the same DSD files via DoP perfectly fine on the QuteHD

No DSD playback issues with my MSB Analog DAC.

The issue is specifically about the JRiver's DSD playback with Chord QuteHD DAC on Mavericks. My other DSD capable DACs work fine with no such issues.

The fact that the Chord DAC plays DoP DSD fine on other playback software (like my Audirvana) suggests that the issue needs to be resolved by Chord and JRiver working together.

[JohnT]

Sorry for the problems people are experiencing.  This morning I've reached out to Chord to try to get a loaner unit that we can use for in-house testing and debugging.  It's really difficult to debug the problems without having a unit here to test with.  Hopefully we can get this straightened out soon.

[sandalaudio]

Sorry for the problems people are experiencing.  This morning I've reached out to Chord to try to get a loaner unit that we can use for in-house testing and debugging.  It's really difficult to debug the problems without having a unit here to test with.  Hopefully we can get this straightened out soon.

Thanks for the promising update. I really hope that the next update of the MC will resolve this DSD issue on Chord DAC. It is also good for the engineers at Chord to know why their DAC is misbehaving, since I haven't come across any other DSD DACs that exhibit the same noisy issue.

[hansbeekhuyzen]

I just noted that in the audio/MIDI control there is no choice for 2ch-24bit integer, only 2ch-32 bit integer (and floating). Could it be that the driver reports to the Mac as 32 bit device where MC thinks it's 24 bit? That would not cause problems with PCM but might confuse the DoP translation. Just guessing....

[JohnT]

I just noted that in the audio/MIDI control there is no choice for 2ch-24bit integer, only 2ch-32 bit integer (and floating). Could it be that the driver reports to the Mac as 32 bit device where MC thinks it's 24 bit? That would not cause problems with PCM but might confuse the DoP translation. Just guessing....

I'll pass your comment along to the Chord engineers.  They're working on the release of a new driver soon, so this may be of interest to them.  Thanks.

[sebassie]

I received today my Chord Chordette EX and encounter similar problems, or even worse. I'm running the latest MC, Mavericks on a Mac Mini, Chord driver (downloaded today). Whatever setting I try I have static noise with music in the background with all freqs. 44.1 -192 + DSD64/128. When using Audirvana on the same system I encounter no problem at all.

[JimH]

Are you running 19.0.118?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87715.0

[sebassie]

Are you running 19.0.118?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87715.0

Yes

[JohnT]

The engineers at Chord say they can reproduce the problem and are working on a fix for their upcoming driver release.

[sebassie]

The engineers at Chord say they can reproduce the problem and are working on a fix for their upcoming driver release.

Thanks. Good to hear. I wait then till they have the driver updated

[Morgan]

Another data point:

I'm using OSX Mavericks 10.9.2, MC 19.0.119, and the Chord QuteHD w/latest driver. I've had intermittent problems (static & stuttering) with MC, Pure Music, and A+ using USB straight into the DAC with both PCM and DSD. When using a USB to SPDIF converter (Bel Canto mLink) in the chain, problems are nonexistent. Glad to hear the Chord USB driver is being updated again.

[Morgan]

By white LED, I mean all the LED colours are lit up, which makes the light appear white, rather than red, green, etc. It is different to the power indicator LED that you are describing.

This is curious to me .. white? My DAC illuminates with a rather bright blueish light when DSD is being played, not the dark blue associated with 24/192 mind you, but I certainly wouldn't mistake it for white.

[sebassie]

I received today my Chord Chordette EX and encounter similar problems, or even worse. I'm running the latest MC, Mavericks on a Mac Mini, Chord driver (downloaded today). Whatever setting I try I have static noise with music in the background with all freqs. 44.1 -192 + DSD64/128. When using Audirvana on the same system I encounter no problem at all.

After updating to 19.0.119 static noise is gone, only occasionally drop-outs

[sandalaudio]

After updating to 19.0.119 static noise is gone, only occasionally drop-outs

I have tried the latest 19.0.119 with the current driver available on Chord website, but the static noise is still there, same as before.
I don't think any real change has been implemented yet, but I am hoping the fix will come out soon.

This is curious to me .. white? My DAC illuminates with a rather bright blueish light when DSD is being played, not the dark blue associated with 24/192 mind you, but I certainly wouldn't mistake it for white.

When the QuteHD plays a DSD file, it turns on all three LED colour lights (Red, Green, Blue) at once, so that's why it is often called "white" for convenience. If you look at the light in projection, you should see a rainbow of colours.
If your room lighting has a warmer hue (e.g. incandescent light bulb, sunlight), then the QuteHD's LED light will look like light blue to you.
The important thing is that you can visually tell whether the DAC is trying to play PCM or DSD.

[Morgan]

Chord released the new Mavericks driver for the Qute series .. http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/news-info.asp?id=167

[JohnT]

That's great news.  All those experiencing the issues please try the new driver and report back.  Thanks!

[hansbeekhuyzen]

I wonder if it will work for my QDB76HDSD as well...

[hansbeekhuyzen]

Nope, the new driver doesn't seem to support the QDB75HDSD
2014-03-14 CORRECTION: works like a charm. Dunno what went wrong the first time

[Morgan]

That's great news.  All those experiencing the issues please try the new driver and report back.  Thanks!

After installing the new driver I removed the Bel Canto converter from my system and have been listening thus far without a glitch .. promising!

[czakari]

Confirming here as well.  Chord QuteHD driver v1.0.61 is working without static.

Related-but-different(-ish): Maybe this is a difference in MC since the last version I was using, rather than a difference in the Chord driver, but now I'm able to configure MC with Output Encoding (DSP) to 'None' and set Bitstream to DSD and it does the right thing.  I wasn't able to do this before, but I skipped several versions of MC so it might've changed in one of those.  I can also set Bitstream to DSD and simultaneously set output encoding to DoP, which didn't work at all last time I tried (again, probably fixed in some intervening version of MC and the driver update might have contributed; I don't know).

[sandalaudio]

Also confirming here that the new Chord driver allows DSD DoP to play properly on MC19 using Chord QuteHD.
It is sounding fine so far without any glitches.

Thanks for everyone that spent the effort to fix this problem

[hansbeekhuyzen]

I second the thanks to all involved