Topic: BETA BUG CONTROL SYSTEM - BBCS (Read 4368 times)

IQ10 · « **on:** February 27, 2002, 09:59:58 am »

BETA BUG CONTROL SYSTEM - BBCS

In thead http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/interact/NeoBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=inter&Post=8389&BoardIdle=7&SortingBy=0&BoardOrder=Descend&Page=0&UserSession=
JimH wrote>"Why don't you start a thread and see if you can find other people interested enough to help. If so, we can then talk about what to do next. Thank you for offering."

So here is place for Doof, ZRocker, King, Xstatic (I meant to explicitly include him before), MHorton, and others to come together for the greater good, and build a better BETA BUG CONTROL SYSTEM (BBCS).

Only rule, is no deletions, in this thread. So, any ideas, where do we begin?

[former member]

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:08:47 am »

>>Only rule, is no deletions
Ok, sure

You know Jim has a modified keyboard that has a 10x (very large) delete key on it with a rapped fire circut from a Microsoft force feedback 2 joy stick.

IQ10 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:10:27 am »

I was also thinking we would need some non-critical test, aka guinea pig, object, to perhaps use initially as the target for the BBCS system. So, King, if you could resurrect the documentation, source code, etc for your
mp3 tag grabber, could we try out your 'beta Plug In' for MJ, and enter bugs, suggested fixes, etc?

[former member]

IQ10 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:15:32 am »

Just for accuracy sake, King's post above, crossed with mine.

[former member]

KingSparta · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:16:08 am »

I do want to see what J river is doing with this Plugin thing first.

>>resurrect the documentation, source code
Gone forever, i had a backup on a cd-rom but i think i tossed it.

IQ10 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:24:08 am »

King wrote>"Gone forever, i had a backup on a cd-rom but i think i tossed it."

As I am sure you know, unless you used a special wipe-out program, you could recover this. I doubt you erased it anyway.
-----
King also wrote>"I do want to see what J river is doing with this Plugin thing first"

Perhaps, these efforts can cooperate with each other. We could 1-develop BBCS in this thread and 2-use BBCS cooperatively to improve King's mp3 tag grabber, 3- figure out where all this falls out later. King? JimH?

[former member]

PHudson · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:31:39 am »

Take a look at Sourceforge.net. There's a number of open source bug tracking tools there (search for bug tracking).

Also see http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BugTrackingSoftware for a list of these things.

I can help with the setup. I don't think I can commit to ongoing maintenance.

IQ10 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:38:45 am »

PHudson wrote>"I can help with the setup. I don't think I can commit to ongoing maintenance"

Thanks. Someone once said, intelligence consists of what to do next. I suggest that Phase I is to document resources here, like PHudson just did, and then figure out how to proceed. Anyone else?

[former member]

Michael Horton · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:51:07 am »

I've been wondering what type of system the MJ guys (& gals?) have been using to keep track of the beta bugs. I was thinking that there might be some database system whereby bugs that aren't fixable within the next build or two (whether because they're not reproducible or because they're not a priority, or whatever) are given a unique Id and then further information from accumulated bug reports is added, until these bugs are fixed. I was slightly discouraged to find that there is no such system in place, and that there is no desire to change the existing setup. The existing setup (foggy, vague notions in the programmers memory that someone once said that they had a problem with some feature) may have worked fine, but as the program grows more complex seemingly every week (that's not a complaint), so will the volume and nature of the bugs. Having people willing to devise a method of tracking bugs seems like a godsend. That's what's being discussed, right? A wish-list type method for tracking and monitoring the progress of bug reports. Or did I miss something? Seens it would make ZRocker and Dragyn happy, and these are pretty good guys. JimH said to devise a plan and that he'd consider it. Wow, what progress [not sarcastic]! When have you ever seen him so open to the possibility of changing the ways things work, possible even for the better. So, don't be afraid that this is a set-up, and that by embracing an idea of [former member] that you'll be headed toward an existence in JimH's doghouse. Hell, it can't be any more dilapidated than that of my wife, and I seem to manage to find a way to live there most of the year. Also, I'm willing to commit to staying on-topic and that's never-ever happened before, and nearly as big-a-deal as JimH offering the remotest possibility that the work here will be given consideration. Mention has already been made of obtaining KingSparta's source code. The level of my ignorance of programming is demonstrated by the fact that I don't have a clue as to what we'd do with it, or how it would be helpful to the project. Again, I may have misunderstood the goal. Anyway, like [former member] said--Doof, Xstatic and the rest of you--are you up for this?

Michael

PHudson · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:51:36 am »

OK, so I looked a bit harder at the sourceforge ones. See http://workbench.sourceforge.net/

Looks pretty neat, is actively maintained, needs php|PLS|mysql|PLS|apache, which are commonly available on commercial website hosting places. So, what next? JimH (if you're reading this), what web environments docan you live with? Or do we have to do (and fund?) this ourselves?

P.

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:28:44 am »

This thread started because I responding to IQ's desire to sign up helpers to write a new system.

If there is a lot of demand for this, and if it's clear that people are willing to work on it, we may be able to help a little, but we can't do much. We're pretty happy with the system (sorry Mhorton) that we have.

We've tried bug-tracking systems a couple times before and they were more trouble than they were worth.

That doghouse thing must be a chain. I've got one at my place, too.

PHudson · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:42:44 am »

Well, I'm hacking away on workbench.

I've got Apache installed, PHP installed (but for some reason Apache can't see it), MySQL installed (all on Windows 2000 Professional).

But it's late here (I'm in the UK) and that's it for tonight

Next steps, get PHP working with Apache (or maybe switch to using the PWS, ack, spit) and install workbench. More news tomorrow.

JimH: is there any milage in continuing, or should I stop trying? (All I can hand over are installation instructions. I'm not about to let a web server on my home machine be accessible by anyone from the Internet).

P. (who - at the last count - had written 4 bug and defect tracking systems in his professional life)

dragyn · « **Reply #12 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:44:41 am »

I'll help with stuff. I'm more of a design freak (perfectionist) than a bug squisher.

IQ10 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:47:14 am »

JimH writes>"If there is a lot of demand for this, and if it's clear that people are willing to work on it, we may be able to help a little

Apparently, in the first couple of hours PHudson and myself have volunteered. Doof, King, Xstatic, Dwex, anyone else, willing to get involved? Maybe bug reporting can be integrqated into some skin, so could report, when it happens (if it doesn't bomb out when MJ does!) Doof, anyway to code a skin so that it will have a life even if MJ bombs? Anyway to attach any code to MJ that survives long enough to capture the last screen, even sequence of key clicks, and say environment automatically?

[former member]

Doof · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:50:11 am »

I think that's really the crux of the situation right there.

If the guys at JRiver don't hold up their end (meaning - updating the status of reported bugs) then this whole thing is just a bunch of talk. You'd wind up with a situation where one person was compiling the lists of bugs into a database somewhere and then updating the status of each bug as it's reported fixed with each new build release. And I don't think that's what anybody has in mind.

Furthermore, I'm relatively satisfied with the system as it is now. I'm willing to put time into something else, but not if it's not going to be used. I get enough of that here at work. While I am, as I said, happy with the situation as it is, I can understand the frustration others are feeling. So I am willing. But only if there's also a level of committment coming the other way.

IQ10 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:59:27 am »

ooops (correction)> Apparently, in the first couple of hours PHudson, MHorton and myself have volunteered.

If there are only three active MJ programmers, we may have just doubled the resources!

[former member]

Michael Horton · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:02:49 pm »

you aren't alowed to use my name and the term 'programmer" in the same paragraph any more, but so far I haven't strayed off-topic yet, and with all this material to work with, it shows, if nothing else, that there is no doubt I will remain committed

IQ10 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:05:48 pm »

ooops (correction)> Apparently, in the first couple of hours PHudson, MHorton, Dragyn and myself have volunteered.

[former member]

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:06:23 pm »

As stated above, what we have works for us. That's not to say that it couldn't be done better, but the bottleneck is not the quality or quantity of bug reports available. The bottleneck is manpower (personpower?) available to fix them.

I have trouble seeing how a better bug reporting system could help that. Perhaps if we had more people.

I think the complaints right now are more an indication of three factors:

1. The thrill of using the new features of 8.0 has faded and the irritation of the things that don't work has become more apparent.
2. Last night's release had some CD "issues".
3. It's a full moon.

Doof · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:12:37 pm »

1. The thrill of using the new features of 8.0 has faded and the irritation of the things that don't work has become more apparent.

That's probably the most accurate statement I've seen yet on this matter.

IQ10 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:21:47 pm »

JimH writes>"The bottleneck is manpower (personpower?)"

Well then, wouldn't more people, people who are clearly capable, and people who do it for self satisfaction, be a solution?

[former member]

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:24:55 pm »

We are opening up some avenues for that with SDK's for plugins.

Michael Horton · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:27:41 pm »

4. some people like to develop and maintain lists

my wife maintains a to-do list, but the tasks aren't assigned a unique ID or anything like that. It works for her. She constantly checking-off items. Gets things done and provides a sense of accomplishment. I spend too much time trying to get the formatting and wording correct, and making sure that the priority of the list items remains current. While my wife has checked several things off her list, I was too busy looking up comma rules.

>>>>>That doghouse thing must be a chain.

If that's the case, I hope my wife just has a franchise and is not the CEO of a major international chain.

Added to my list of things that I'll never again say: " I'm willing to commit to staying on-topic." It's priority places it right after "Yes, honey, you do look fat in that dress" and just before "have fun and buy whatever you like."

IQ10 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:30:50 pm »

Doof wrote>"So I am willing. But only if there's also a level of committment coming the other way."

We'll put you down for 'undecided' for now. Doof, is there anyway to attach code to MJ, that survives most crashes, and which provides an audit trail of the last few screens and mouse/key clicks, as well as identifying the environment (OS, versions, etc)?

[former member]

Doof · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:43:32 pm »

Just a little perspective...

First MJ 8 alpha to MJ 8.0.214 Beta

Fixed: Library would not be saved on Win9x systems.
Fixed: In-place editing would be invoked from double-clicks.
Fixed: "Enter" on Playing Now would remove all but one song from Playing Now.
Fixed: CD writer control could return faulty burning device information (_bstr_t problems).
Fixed: Pressing applay and then OK in VisStudio after changing scalling stops visualizations.
Fixed: Mini-me player menu now shows Always on top state.
Fixed: Fixed various focus and positioning problems in mini-me.
Fixed: Win9x/Me GDI leaks.
Fixed: Column order / position are now saved.
Fixed: A bug where visualizations could not appear.
Fixed: Display screen would not be visible if MJ started in mini-me mode.
Fixed: Deleting from list control in cd station should only delete virtual files
Fixed: Choosing 192kbps with wma encoder causes ripper to crash MJ
Fixed: Lots of Playing Now right-click menu usability issues.
Fixed: Track numbering / reordering problems for devices.
Fixed: Several TV bugs.
Fixed: "Delete" wasn't removing text from fixed regions in cd labeler.
Fixed: Metamorphis windows now save state and position.
Fixed: ZOrder in Metamorphis window did not work correctly.
Fixed: CD writer dialog now checks if the last used default cd burner drive is still a valid burner.
Fixed: CD writer progress dialog shows more accurate file progress info for data CD burning.
Fixed: Mouse cursor hiding / showing would cause crashes.
Fixed: Column sort arrows could cause crashes.
Fixed: Adding playlists could lead to tree corruption.
Fixed: Playlist deletion could function improperly.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would output silence.
Fixed: Searches with ",[,] in them would not function properly. (now requires a \ before those characters)
Fixed: Select all did not work in some views.
Fixed: Mouse cursor would not reset to an arrow when moving over the Playing Now display.
Fixed: Deleting files from the library while they were in Playing Now would cause problems.
Fixed: When remote plugin was "Stopped", it restarted when MJ was restarted.
Fixed: Files in CD burning dialog could be sent to CD burner.
Fixed: Data session importing was broken in CD burner control.
Fixed: Switching from mini-me to mega-me would not hide visualization.
Fixed: Metamorphis skins used too much CPU
Fixed: Ape plug-in would not install correctly.
Fixed: Visualization would disappear when switching from one mini-me skin to another.
Fixed: System tray menu did not work correctly.
Fixed: Adding playlists did not update the view correctly.
Fixed: Smartlists would not always save changes.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would update the right view twice on startup. (instead of just once)
Fixed: Several issues with browser scheme creation.
Fixed: In-place editing would start improperly in several scenarios.
Fixed: VBR mp3 encoding did not work.
Fixed: Right-click menus could cause crashes.
Fixed: Deleting a browser scheme would make the view jump to an undefined location.
Fixed: The "Media Key" Play/Pause was not functioning.
Fixed: Restoring MJ from system tray would not work correctly.
Fixed: Playing Now would not always be properly updated after a shuffle.
Fixed: WebView would not process keys such as Ctrl V, Ctrl C etc.
Fixed: Devices listed out of order in tree.
Fixed: Fixed several problems that could lead to false hits when certain characters were used in searches.
Fixed: Could not add playlists to new playlist groups.
Fixed: Changing TV station properties in Playing Now could cause crashes.
Fixed: Scanning for TV channels now works again.
Fixed: Winamp-skin PL window-shade mode didn't display info.
Fixed: Winamp-skin next button paused.
Fixed: Support for Music01 is back.
Fixed: "Devices" in the tree wouldn't show the proper device view.
Fixed: Devices submenu in "Quick Play" would cause a crash.
Fixed: Media Scheduler would not stop starting.
Fixed: Encoder plug-in installation from Options dialog is much smarter now.
Fixed: Uninstalling selected plug-in in Plug-in Manager would not delete plug-in file.
Fixed: Image in DJ Track Info theme was wrong size.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not search Comment field.
Fixed: Customize toolbar menu item was disabled.
Fixed: Visualizations in mini-me transparent mode would cause problems.
Fixed: Changes to the external image in File Properties would not always be saved.
Fixed: Save button in System Info window is removed (specially for Doof).
Fixed: MJ would not play files with semi-colon in their name.
Fixed: A Playing Now 'Default' tab sizing quirk.
Fixed: Renaming files in the DB would cause crashes. (move/copy crash, file properties crash, etc.)
Fixed: Quirkiness in selecting CD drives/tracks for ripping.
Fixed: TV Tuner view would unnecessarily restart the TV control.
Fixed: Processing a "Send To" command wouldn't update the right view
Fixed: Playlists view wouldn't show files not in main library.
Fixed: 'Export Playlist' was disabled for many views.
Fixed: Rating would not export properly using "export playlist".
Fixed: Quick Play->Library was broken.
Fixed: Locate File->Decade didn't function properly.
Fixed: Playback would be stopped on double-clicks set to "Replace Playing Now (all)".
Fixed: Playlist order would not be maintained when converting from MJ 7.x.
Fixed: Analyze Replay Gain dialog counted files already analyzed in files analyzed count.
Fixed: Replay Gain analyzer would hang when it encountered unsupported files.
Fixed: Fixed a few possible buy button crashes.
Fixed: Could not in-place edit the comment field.
Fixed: In-place editing would not allow fields to be emptied.
Fixed: In-place editing would not always update multiple fields correctly (if first didn't change).
Fixed: Starting TV would crash Media Jukebox.
Fixed: A Playing Now 'Default' tab sizing quirk.
Fixed: Renaming files in the DB would cause crashes. (move/copy crash, file properties crash, etc.)
Fixed: Quirkiness in selecting CD drives/tracks for ripping.
Fixed: TV Tuner view would unnecessarily restart the TV control.
Fixed: Processing a "Send To" command wouldn't update the right view
Fixed: Playlists view wouldn't show files not in main library.
Fixed: 'Export Playlist' was disabled for many views.
Fixed: Rating would not export properly using "export playlist".
Fixed: Quick Play->Library was broken.
Fixed: Locate File->Decade didn't function properly.
Fixed: Playback would be stopped on double-clicks set to "Replace Playing Now (all)".
Fixed: Playlist order would not be maintained when converting from MJ 7.x.
Fixed: Analyze Replay Gain dialog counted files already analyzed in files analyzed count.
Fixed: Replay Gain analyzer would hang when it encountered unsupported files.
Fixed: Fixed a few possible buy button crashes.
Fixed: Full screen button didn't use MJ font.
Fixed: Burn dialog would not always appear after doing a "send to" and clicking on burner drive.
Fixed: Sorting by "Rating" did not work.
Fixed: If a file failed to be moved, Media Jukebox would still update the database in "Move and Update" mode.
Fixed: Saving/loading of the last send to item was broken.
Fixed: Wrong error message was displayed for a failed transaction. Also, spaces are now removed from email addresses,
Fixed: Filters would not always be properly applied.
Fixed: Jump to playing now and shuffle didn't work with some properly with some double-click schemes.
Fixed: Auto-name of view schemes was not turning on by default properly.
Fixed: Switching to mini-me wouldn't bring mini-me to the top.
Fixed: Clicking on the tray icon wouldn't bring mini-me to the top.
Fixed: Typed-list navigation would cause errors if there was no sort column.
Fixed: Fixed several custom menu placement quirks.
Fixed: CD burning crashes.
Fixed: Shuffle mode was always on.
Fixed: APE plugin was not saving track numbers to the file.
Fixed: Media Jukebox shell extensions were broken.
Fixed: Setup completion dialog no longer says "Media Jukebox 7.1".
Fixed: R-click "Rename" would allow editing of uneditable columns.
Fixed: Not all bitrate view schemes would sort correctly in the tree.
Fixed: Next/Previous playlist remote commands weren't working with playlist groups.
Fixed: Search engine would not process special and international characters properly.
Fixed: Current "Send To" item would be reset on double-clicks.
Fixed: Possible crash when removing files from a list.
Fixed: Next/Previous playlist remote command didn't work when play button behavior was set to "play playing now"
Fixed: Media Jukebox could display multiple sort arrows under some circumstances.
Fixed: Several circumstances that could cause tree actions to only happen to the selected file. (instead of all the files)
Fixed: Replay Gain analyzer wouldn't continue with other files after encountering an error.
Fixed: Burner and converter would hang if decoder failed when starting to decode a file.
Fixed: Burn progress dialog was not destroyed if user cancelled a cancel operation.
Fixed: Right click on mini-me would not active the player.
Fixed: Data CD burning would often hang right after clicking the 'Start' button.
Fixed: Header of list control would not be correctly painted after sorting.
Fixed: The update CDDB choice in tree right-click menu works now.
Fixed: The last audio track followed by a data track would fail ripping or playing on IDE drive in NT/2K/XP.
Fixed: Deleting files from Current Playlist would not always work correctly.
Fixed: Mp3 encoder plug-in would not remember custom settings.
Fixed: Over capacity checking in CD burner wasn't working correctly.
Fixed: When burning files not in the MJ database, doing a "rearrange data folders" would crash.
Fixed: After renaming an item in the tree using F2, item would lose focus.
Fixed: Locate File menu was not alphabetically sorted.
Fixed: Times Played in Top hits is back.
Fixed: Metamorphis skin would sometimes place components in wrong position.
Fixed: Adding files to Playing Now from an exported playlist would remove the same files from the main database.
Fixed: Scrolling playlist in mini-me would not work.
Fixed: Memory leak in .m3u importing.
Fixed: Pressing watch in TV Tuner with channels in the list would crash MJ.
Fixed: When a cd-rw was erased, files were not removed from MJ database.
Fixed: CD-RW erase using generic driver would crash MJ.
Fixed: Deleting not selected item in Media Library (left view) would delete selected item.
Fixed: Editing a virtual folder name for a CD in the tree didn't update the folder column in the right view.
Fixed: Deleting media files from library would not delete them from current playlist.
Fixed: Copy and Paste for images in track info;
Fixed: Because of bug in generic burning library, ability to erase a cd/rw was not enabled.
Fixed: After a failed CD/RW erase operation, status text in burn dialog was not updated.
Fixed: MJ would shuffle playlist tracks during import.
Fixed: Replay Gain now supports 32, 44.1, and 48 khz files.
Fixed: If license restore or purchase was done during run of MJ, burning speed could not be increased beyond 2X until MJ restart.
Fixed: Virtual CD burn folders were not added to tree in sorted order.
Fixed: APL files would not play.
Fixed: Some sort arrow and column auto-sizing bugs.
Fixed: Audio CD playlist could not be reordered in the burner.
Fixed: MJ could seek past the beginning or end of a song. (and crash)
Fixed: Media Jukebox would crash if it could not successfully load a mini-me skin.
Fixed: Failing to load a Winamp 2 skin would cause a memory leak.
Fixed: MJ was unable to import WMA files.
Fixed: Track order column wasn't showing for audio CD burns.
Fixed: Media Library would not allow all valid Playlist Groups to be used in creating a view component.
Fixed: TV view would cover up the TV display window with gray.
Fixed: MJ should work better with international characters.
Fixed: Move File confirmation dialog could be obscured by the wait message.
Fixed: MJ would crash on exit if Skin Manager was UP.
Fixed: MJ would leak resources when switching from on mini-me skin to another.
Fixed: Metamorphis skins would position child windows incorrectly.
Fixed: Paying songs in (winamp) mini-me retains focus on currently playing item.
Fixed: Columns would loose auto-sizing after going to Options dialog.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would sometimes crash on start up.
Fixed: Double-cliking on empty list would crash MJ.
Fixed: APL was not in file information file on the server.
Fixed: Column autosizing was not correct on WinXP
Fixed: CD burning with generic library could cause an "integer division by zero" error.
Fixed: Doing a "Start" on a remote plugin wouldn't "take" until MJ was restarted.
Fixed: User could previously delete a CD burner drive from the Devices tree.
Fixed: In Line in settings, auto volume setting wasn't working for multiple recording devices.
Fixed: MJ would not start if "Don't show Plus message" had been selected.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would allow creation of empty view scheme.
Fixed: Tab order in some dialogs was wrong.
Fixed: Export Playlist window would add two dots instead of one.
Fixed: Export Playlist window would use wrong name for some playlists.
Fixed: Content view did not use case insensitive sorting.
Fixed: File naming in sound recorder was inconsistent.
Fixed: Problems in Find CD and Find Artist.
Fixed: Pressing Burn CD button sometimes would select incorrect files.
Fixed: Registration message was cut off.
Fixed: DSP window would not always show.
Fixed: Metamorphis button region did not work correctly.
Fixed: Importing would update the tags for each file it imported.
Fixed: "Select All" was funky in Search views.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would stop playback when it couldn't find a non-removable file. (still displays a message for removable files)
Fixed: There were several situations where r-click in a Playlist view would show an unusable "Remove" command.
Fixed: Rename and Delete menu items were not always enabled / disabled properly.
Fixed: Playlist r-click commands "Update Order", "Remove Order" and "Shuffle" were shown for non-orderable lists.
Fixed: Playing Now would update twice on creation.
Fixed: Track splitting was not working correctly in the sound recorder.
Fixed: Running Visualization Studio could cause Media Jukebox to crash on close.
Fixed: Cover art would not always change in visualizations when tracks changed.
Fixed: Install Package did not work for some plug-ins.
Fixed: MJ would not install components nessesery to run Hauppauge TV.
Fixed: Pressing Minimize button in Metamorphis skin would close MJ.
Fixed: Error in the Handheld code that prevented HH's from connecting correctly.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not properly handle a plugins tag saving error / success value.
Fixed: EqOn and EqOff buttons in Metamorphis would not work.
Fixed: Play icon in playing now would not change.
Fixed: "Import Into Library" menu item on wrong side of divider.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not play Yahoo radio.
Fixed: MJ would crash if encoder can not be created.
Fixed: Switching from winamp mini-me to mega-me would break stuff.
Fixed: If CDDB was unavailable, an error message was displayed for each track on the CD. Now it's shown once.
Fixed: The cdplayer.ini file was updated incorrectly when CD-Text information was "valid" but empty.
Fixed: Sliders would not work in metamorphis skins.
Fixed: Tooltips in metamorphis would not always work correctly.
Fixed: Wait message would stay above other messages.
Fixed: The removable database did not clear properly.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would lock when playing RealAudio with RealOne installed.
Fixed: Media Jukebox could mess up the mixer balance. (introduced in 8.0.176)
Fixed: MJ would not always recognize Windows Media Video Streams.
Fixed: Watching TV would crash MJ.
Fixed: Delete and Rename would not work in Device view.
Fixed: Renaming files in portable view would not work.
Fixed: Pressing F5 button would select all items in right view.
Fixed: Dragging playlist to CD burner device and then pressing cancel would cause format selection window to loop.
Fixed: After dragging playlist to CD burner and pressing cancel after format selection window would cause Top Hits playlist disappear from the list.
Fixed: Dragging a file to CD burner queue from outside MJ would cause incorrect error message.
Fixed: CD burner properties dialog would crash if no burners were detected.
Fixed: Double-clicking on a playlist in the tree would not perform the default action.
Fixed: MJ would not remember last full screen mode.
Fixed: MJ would incorrectly determine Programms folder for international versions or Windows.
Fixed: Using Import in MJ Shell menu would crash Media Jukebox.
Fixed: If you start MJ in mini-me, it won't remember that you last had it maximized when you switch to MEGA-ME. Even if it was maximized when you last quit.
Fixed: Context menu would appear out of place when Hauppauge WinTV's video window is smaller than MJ Display Window.
Fixed: Wait message would float above the audio/data mode dialog when sending files to CD burner.
Fixed: If there are "virtual" folders but no files in them, the burn dialog will still show.
Fixed: Playlist order was not remembered for audio CD burning.
Fixed: An audio format file could not be dragged from explorer onto an audio CD burn dialog.
Fixed: It was possible to add a folder to an audio format CD.
Fixed: CD burning data usage showed 1% even with no files added.
Fixed: Cancelling a CD burn and then reselecting files didn't update the status fields correctly.
Fixed: It was possible to get a "Bad data file format" message from the generic CD burner because of a duplicate file.
Fixed: Certain Removable Drive devices failed would not refresh after uploads.
Fixed: Locate File submenu would not appear on some operating systems.
Fixed: Temp files created during ripping and mp3 encoding would not get deleted.
Fixed: Ripping CD's with album titles surrounded by quotes would fail if title was chosen for file location.
Fixed: File Naming & Location settings would not save / load properly.
Fixed: Bug in Handheld file conversion during upload.
Fixed: Several toolbar fixes in Visualization Studio.
Fixed: Switching tabs in File Properties wouldn't kill the editing of a field in "General".
Fixed: Automatic cover art retrieval would not function properly.
Fixed: Format converter could add an unnecessary "(1)" to the end of converted files.
Fixed: Output file base path would not work with UNC filenames properly.
Fixed: Switching to full-screen mode would not retain the focus properly.
Fixed: Mouse cursor could be hidden when coming out of full-screen mode.
Fixed: MJ would give warning about not beening able to update tags for file formats which don't support tagging.
Fixed: Switching from windowed to full-screen to windowed would cause the window to go to "Always On Top".
Fixed: Error in percent completion calculation in mp3 encoder.
Fixed: If no visualization scripts are present, a divide by zero error could occur.
Fixed: Play icon would not always update properly on track plays / changes.
Fixed: Data CD burn of track with blank artist/album fields would fail if artist/album folders were selected.
Fixed: CDDB Windows would not always show.
Fixed: File conversion for handhelds and progress reporting.
Fixed: OS display for Handhelds in Plugin Manager
Fixed: Filenames created during CD copy were truncated when using the external encoder plugin.
Fixed: DirectSound playback would not stop at the end of a stream.
Fixed: "Buffering" would not display immediately.
Fixed: Holding down the Ctrl until it repeated could make navigation impossible.
Fixed: Ogg vorbis plugin no longer crashes when doing CD ripping.
Fixed: MJ Playback control much faster to close / stop.
Fixed: MJ will no longer crash when trying to use DirectX output without DirectX installed.
Fixed: MJ should better handle invalid CDPlayer.ini entries.
Fixed: Dragging non-audio files into CD burner got broken.
Fixed: Memory leak in device transfer queue.
Fixed: If all files were moved from a virtual folder, the delete folder option didn't appear on the context menu.
Fixed: MPL playlist would not store extended information correctly.
Fixed: Deleting files from Playing Now could cause crashes.
Fixed: Adding files to playing now would not update Playing Now.
Fixed: Lots of silliness that could happen when two files had the same filename in Playing Now.
Fixed: Playing Now would show the play icon multiple times if a file was in the list more than once.
Fixed: Normalization function would only work intermittently.
Fixed: In the sound recorder, simultaneous record/encode to APE format didn't work reliably.
Fixed: Equalizer would not function properly.
Fixed: Install Wizard would some times try to overwrite msvcrt.dll with old one.
Fixed: EQ Preset window would not work in winamp mini-me mode.
Fixed: CD Labeler was positioning case inserts incorrectly on Stomper labels.
Fixed: CD Labeler was cutting off some text on the side flaps of CD back covers.
Fixed: Music01 Server's private mode will not work correctly.
Fixed: MJ would crash if skin was applied from mega-me mode.
Fixed: Toggle StatusBar message is gone.
Fixed: Playlist in mini-me would flicker when moved.
Fixed: Skin Manager would not display correct name for metamorphis skins.
Fixed: Uninstall would not remove all files from MJ directory.
Fixed: In the CD burner, dragging files (or cut/paste) between virtual folders sometimes did not work.
Fixed: Custom menus would not properly detect multi-monitor desktop dimensions.
Fixed: After dragging data files from explorer into CD burning list, rearranging the track order could cause a crash.
Fixed: MP3 plug-in would not install.
Fixed: Visualizations / MJPlayer would not properly stop when reaching the end of a stream when not in standard between-tracks mode.
Fixed: Decoder (used for burning, etc.) would fail if the temp file directory didn't exist.
Fixed: Metamorphis skins would not use font specified in xml file for tracklist.
Fixed: Drag-n-drop on self was not properly disabled in some views. (Find list, etc.)
Fixed: Showing the right-click menu in full screen mode would re-enable the screen-saver.
Fixed: MJ would crash if Metamorphis skin it's loading is invalid.
Fixed: Metamorphis skins would fail to load gif and jpg files.
Fixed: Pressing cancel on a "Send To->laylist->Create / Select Playlist" would produce unexpected results.
Fixed: Using remote control plugins would crash MJ.
Fixed: Several small issues with the remote control portion of plugin manager.
Fixed: Handhelds retain dropped order during uploads.
Fixed: WMA plug-in would lock if data was unavailable.
Fixed: Vis Studio Settings dialog would reset Goal Framerate value.
Fixed: M3U playlist file on burned CD's was including non-audio files.
Fixed: Double-clicking on playlist in the tree would crash MJ.
Fixed: Library Manager would lose path to default library.
Fixed: CD tracks would not display information in visualizations.
Fixed: All "&" should now look like "&" instead of "_"
Fixed: When importing via the right mouse button or because of putting them in a playlist, the files would not appear in recently imported.
Fixed: Playback state would not be correctly determined, causing couple strange bugs.
Fixed: Setting star density to 0 in star field component would crash MJ.
Fixed: Edit channel dialog did not save the number.
Fixed: CDDB control would crash on multiple file lookup.
Fixed: Column auto-sizing was silly.
Fixed: Mini-me playlist not updated to new style introduced in 8.0.195. (would show errors when displaying)
Fixed: Skin Manager would leak memory.
Fixed: Tab Control in Playback options with Mega-me skin on would not display correctly.
Fixed: Update playback order did not function properly.
Fixed: Updating plaback order would leak memory.
Fixed: Position slider could move off the scale if a plugin returned bogus position info.
Fixed: CDDB windows would not belong to MJ, thus causing weird problems.
Fixed: Clicking on EQ window and then closing it would crash MJ.
Fixed: Tooltip would not display multiple lines.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not properly cross-fading when double-clicking to play a new file.
Fixed: Playlist in mini-me would not show next files after currently playing.
Fixed: TracklistPosition slider is now linked to tracklist position.
Fixed: Fixed a logic error that could be the cause of WDM driver users still needing to download Hauppauge OCX.
Fixed: The Continuous and Shuffle settings were swapped in the Player's Settings tooltip.
Fixed: Track Names dialog did not display correctly.
Fixed: Track Name dialog has 0 instead of Cancel on the cancel button.
Fixed: Source Bitdepth selection would not be saved in Options->layback
Fixed: Loss of tag data when converting certain files for Handhelds.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would remove not supported tags from OGG files.
Fixed: WMA input plug-in would not support tag values over 256 bytes.
Fixed: "Cancel" didn't work for file properties.
Fixed: Drag-n-drop of the last item in a list would cause a crash.
Fixed: Playing Now would lose view position when dragging and dropping to update order.
Fixed: Remove tag in WMA files did not remove all the tags.
Fixed: Hauppauge WinTV would not work on Windows 98.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not be able to create Playback control.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not flush its "Playing Now" cache after each file deletion.
Fixed: Send To -> Playlist menu was broken.
Fixed: Playback Settings would not always save properly.
Fixed: MJ would crash in Update Library.
Fixed: Metamorphis skins would not update track position info during playback.
Fixed: Several playlist (m3u, etc.) importing problems.
Fixed: Updating playback order would not repaint the right view.
Fixed: Moving Metamorphis skin around would lose mouse hold.
Fixed: Selecting "Ignore tag Information" would still import MJMetadata.
Fixed: WMA plug-in would not determine duration correctly.
Fixed: CD Ripper/Burner/Sound recorder didn't work with new static MFC linking.
Fixed: Sound recorder handles situation when a modem registers itself as the first wave-in device (with no mixer device associated).
Fixed: Some errors in recognizing CD burners by Goldenhawk and generic burner libraries.
Fixed: Proxy authorization did not work with all proxies.
Fixed: Multimedia keys should work better.
Fixed: A possible crash caused by the "Starfield" visualization component.
Fixed: Shell Extensions would not work with large number of files.
Fixed: Visualization studio would not always prompt to save for changes.
Fixed: Internal cover art saving / loading did not work for APE and APL.
Fixed: Full Screen command bars would not be painted correctly with skinning on.
Fixed: Metamorphis tooltips would clip if the player was too close to the edge of the screen.
Fixed: Rename from file properties did not work properly with an empty directory rule.
Fixed: Double-clicking on media file in explorer with MJ running did not work.
Fixed: Converter didn't work if temp music directory didn't exist.
Fixed: If decoder failed in converter tool, MJ could crash.
Fixed: Playing now main page splitter would not work.
Fixed: Adding a playlist without expanding the node would not show all playlists.
Fixed: Several keyboard focus issues.
Fixed: TV View didn't hide controls properly.
Fixed: Rating would show up as 0 for "?" in Track Info pages.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would display an endless stream of errors after loading a non-existent library.
Fixed: Statistics didn't tally albums and artists properly.
Fixed: Location sorting logic was not correct.
Fixed: Browser component dialog would not always save information properly.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not handle mixed artists CD information from CDDB correctly.
Fixed: Filter state updates more aggressively. (so things like lastplayed=<60 get updated every track change)
Fixed: Playlist groups would show up as "ordered".
Fixed: Media Jukebox wouldn't ever ignore the "directory" rule when renaming from file info.
Fixed: Unrating rating would show as "0" in Media Library view schemes.
Fixed: Better handling of numeric fields (year, rating, etc.) in Media Library view schemes.
Fixed: Quick-play menu wasn't filled properly. (broken 8.0.203)
Fixed: Visualization could not be disabled.
Fixed: Install Wizard would let Installation continue without user accepting license.
Fixed: Recently Played and Top Hits would show files that hadn't been played.
Fixed: Purchasing of MJ was broken.
Fixed: Could not rename non-existant files using "File Properties".
Fixed: Entering and exiting Party Mode could cause a crash.
Fixed: Party Mode dialog would clip text.
Fixed: Install Wizard would delete Track Info pages
Fixed: CD Writer window would display incorrect write speed.
Fixed: MJ would crash after CDDB error.
Fixed: Rip/encode was broken.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would leak memory after calling Update from CDDB function.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would not reliably store genre information in CDPlayer.ini
Fixed: Request to CDDB would sometimes lock MJ for short period of time.
Fixed: Spectrum Analyzer component would not detect track / cover art changes for files with cover art inside.
Fixed: DVD playback failed on an intermittent basis.
Fixed: Metamorphis would not store position of child windows correctly.
Fixed: Repeating "Critical Error" message when starting playback from Explorer.
Fixed: Current playlist would get saved unnecessarily.
Fixed: MJ Shell extensions would start during installation.
Fixed: MJ Install Wizard would not update media files list correctly.
Fixed: MPL importing would leak memory.
Fixed: Importing extended tag info (MJ meta-data) would leak memory.
Fixed: Image visualization component would not detect track / cover art changes for files with cover art inside.
Fixed: Generic CD burn library update fixes bug when cancelling a test write operation. Also some bug fixes for SCSI/USB drives.
Fixed: Keyword TRACKINFO_INSERT_TRACKPATH did not work correctly.
Fixed: Install Wizard would not display file types supported by MJ.
Fixed: Applying Winamp skin while MJ is running in Mega-me mode would crash MJ.
Fixed: Downloading and Applying winamp skin would sometimes crash MJ.
Fixed: Metamorphis would put included visualization scripts in the old vis studio location.
Fixed: Auto expand branches did not work when item accessed using toolbar or menu.
Fixed: FastForward and Rewind would not work for video files.
Fixed: A memory leak in the visualization engine.
Fixed: "Playing Now" database would not always save changes.
Fixed: Sound recorder needed to be rebuilt because of registration control changes. Was crashing.
Fixed: "Don't import short files" wasn't always working.
Fixed: Remove would not work in Top Hits and Recently Played playlists.
Fixed: Getting file info from CDDB would not work correctly.
Fixed: Passing mouse over settings button in player view would sometimes crash MJ.
Fixed: Some of the templates for Track Info did not have correct keywords for Costom fields.
Fixed: Media Jukebox wouldn't be happy if you renamed one file to have the same name as another already in the library.
Fixed: Switch bar in display area did not show disabled buttons correctly.
Fixed: Metamorphis' REMAINING_TIME value would be set to Live when playback stopped.
Fixed: Metamorphis' time values would not be reset to 0 when playback stopped.
Fixed: When ripping CD with various artists MJ would try to get cover art for each track.
Fixed: Metamorphis' position slider would not return to start when playback stopped.
Fixed: In Export Playlist dialog Output Range and Included Fields groups worked as one.
Fixed: MJ was unable to get images and lyrics from files located on CD-R.
Fixed: Corrupt WAV files could hang the WAV plugin during analysis.
Fixed: Control bars didn't work properly in windowed mode.
Fixed: Control bars would become visible when Media Jukebox didn't have the focus.
Fixed: Manually typing paths into the import files dialog didn't work properly.
Fixed: Right-click on track info could hang Media Jukebox.
Fixed: Track info could occasionally show the IE r-click menu.
Fixed: Renaming UNC paths from file properties would corrupt the filename.
Fixed: Tree auto-expanding did not work properly at the root.
Fixed: Seeking while paused would dead-lock Media Jukebox.
Fixed: The "Conversion Finished" message could be obscured by the conversion dialog.
Fixed: Playback display time could be off by as much as the latency selected in Playback -> Options -> Performance.
Fixed: Playback display time on seeking could get off by a little.
Fixed: Pausing, then seeking to the end of a stream (with no more data coming) would deadlock MJ.
Fixed: Added better error reporting to Metamorphis.
Fixed: Several full screen mode focus issues.
Fixed: Right-click menu was not working for DVD.
Fixed: CD ripper (analog) and sound recorder provide better support for multiple sound devices on the system.
Fixed: Ripped and recorded filenames were not following the directory naming rules.
Fixed: Media Jukebox could crash when switching tracks.
Fixed: Media Jukebox would crash when doing digital playback of audio CD if aspi was selected for drive type and aspi layer didn't exist.
Fixed: TRACKINFO_INSERT_PN_POSITION would show one less than it actually is.
Fixed: Saving currently playing vis script would crash MJ.
Fixed: Vis Studio would be displayed behind vis window.
Fixed: Vis Studio would occasionally crash.
Fixed: MJ would not update database after Submitting disk to CDDB.
Fixed: Multimedia keys can get fired multiple times for one press -- now limit the repeat speed.
Fixed: Menu and escape keys did not work for TV, WMP, and Real in full screen mode.
Fixed: MJ would crash after getting image from a scanner.
Fixed: Dragging & Dropping a playlist from one group to another would destroy playlist view.
Fixed: CD ripping property "read speed" now handles IDE drives under WinNT/2K/XP.
Fixed: Splitter bar would leak GDI resources on Win 9x.
Fixed: Spectrum Analyzer Visualization would leak resources.

IQ10 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:57:44 pm »

Doof, As you well know, Fixed is at best half the job. The other half, as ZRocker, and others well know, is Verified. And then there is the third half, Broken or re-introduced.
----------
JimH wrote>"We are opening up some avenues for that with SDK's for plugins"

Well then why not let an automated bug documentor be the first 'SDK'? There is a lot of talent here.
I would hate to think that your offer, which began this thread, and expressed a desire to survey what interest there was, was disingenuous. I think it deseves better than:
"That doghouse thing must be a chain. I've got one at my place, too.
and "It's a full moon."

Maybe the situation is closest to what was posted in the thread "Beta compliants":
---------------copied from thread 'RE:Beta complaints'------------
Posted by [former member] on 02-27-2002 01:17:16 P.M.
King wrote>"[former member], I think he may have been telling you that he was not going to change it."

Thanks King. I mostly knew what he was saying, although the born again spirit in me hoped, and still hopes for something better. If the best that I could do, is to make the current attitude visible to others, then so be it.

Peace, King
[former member]
---------------end of snip from thread 'RE:Beta complaints'---------

[former member]
Peace

IQ10 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2002, 01:10:45 pm »

Why don't we all re-think our positions over night.

I have a hocky puck to watch, and won't be posting.

Anyone remember the Steinfeld comedy, where he notes that hockey is the fastest game known to mankind, and requires a lot of training, preferably beginning when you are young, just to be able and follow the puck.

Steinfeld claims that, having been introduced to hockey after he was an adult, he has great difficulty following the puck. He has the great idea to tape the game, and play it back at slow speed, so as to practice and train himself on picking up, and following the puck.

Well he tapes the game, plays it back at slow speed, only to discover there is no puck. Only a rigged game where the goal light is turned on and off once in awhile by the powers that be!!!

[former member]

Xstatic · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2002, 01:14:19 pm »

Based on what has been said by Jim I don't believe this specific initiative would be viable.

To me it actually seem that this bug control system would be almost enforced onto J.river.

If the signal was something like: "Super, if you guys would do that - that would really get things going.."
that would be another situation. I perceive the signal as: "Actually we like the beta procedure pretty much as it is.
We would like to achieve even better and quicker improvements to MJ, so we open up for SDK's for plugins"

Thats how I understand it. I too have gotten irritated at times over bugs I experienced, reported them repeatedly etc.
But we should try to see it in the bigger perspective, and as Doof so elegantly just pointed out in this last post.

We need to adjust the levels of expectation with JRiver. This is a two-way street exercise, and I must say that I believe that JRiver folks are more patient and flexible than the rest of us. Just for a second get the idea that you do not know about MJ, and you are a RealJukebox user, and you keep sending in those silly automated forms with improvement suggestions, and never ever get a reply - and you can wait many months or even a year before a decent upgrade.

Then you experience a buggy behaviour somewhere in the program, and send in a question or report to them.
Now you recieve a robot email, that communicates to you like you are 10 years old and just bought a computer.
Maybe after communicating with this robot after 4 or 5 times, a "JUNIOR" supporter actually emails you, and pastes something from the knowledge base in the mail, and so on and so on. A lot of you probably went through this numerous times.

Then you find MJ and find yourself in a organic dynamic enviromnent - where they really make things happen!
This program is lightyears ahead any other jukebox/player in regard to functionality.
And sure, we want to make even more things happen - but patience and gratitude should go along with this.

The guys have shown before up to previous launches of new versions that they _will_ kill the bugs - I have no
reason to believe that they wont kill them now. So let's make them "do that woodoo, that they do soooo weeeeell!"
(for those of you that have seen Blazing Saddles, Mel Brooks, know what I mean with this quote

I think that Matt, Nikolay, John, Jim, Shawn and others from MJ show huge amounts of patience and sometimes also gratitude, and more importantly enormous amounts of innovation, skill, openness and efficiency.

They are happy about our bug reports - so let us be persistent, patient and to the point in the reports, and all
of us have a big stock in the final bugfree v.8.

KingSparta · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2002, 01:52:53 pm »

MHorton

>>Mention has already been made of obtaining KingSparta's source code.
>>The level of my ignorance of programming is demonstrated by the fact
>>that I don't have a clue as to what we'd do with it

You Would Say God This Guy Has Sloppy Code

Severian · « **Reply #29 on:** February 27, 2002, 05:42:50 pm »

I have YET to know a programmer who DIDN'T say that about another programmer's code...or his own, if he hadn't looked at it for more than a month.

Michael Horton · « **Reply #30 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:00:50 pm »

Xstatic
Your speech brought tears to my eyes. I feel so ashamed and unworthy. I promise that I will try to do much better from now on. Short of MLK or VL, I've never been so inspired to try harder. Thank you.

Scronch · « **Reply #31 on:** February 28, 2002, 12:23:13 am »

IQ, the obvious solution is for JRiver to send you the source code and me half the profits. Maybe Jim could arrange for a nice nanny to help out around here, as well. And he could shovel my driveway and cut my grass. Sorry if this doesn't fit this thread; I just thought it fit the usual IQ fantasy posts.

Scronch

JollyJim · « **Reply #32 on:** February 28, 2002, 01:49:28 am »

This thread sounds like an answer looking for a good question......

Good luck - Jim

Phudson · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2002, 12:38:25 am »

So, do we need a new bugtracking system or what?

If not, I'll stop trying to get one working

I had thought what the issue was really bug report visibility, rather than bug tracking - JimH has said he's happy with their current system, but some of us out here would like more visibility of what happened to the report (fixed, on the list as must do/should do/could do/would be nice, declined/disagreed, not reproduced, ....).

A new bug tracking system might be a way of doing that. Alternatively, posting more details of pending stuff with each release. Or nothing at all, if JimH etc don't think there's a problem worth fixing here.

Me, I think visibility nearly always helps. It gets rid of most of the whinges, without actually requiring much more work.

P. (if anyone cares, I determined that Workbench seems buggy as supplied and stopped trying to make that work)

JollyJim · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2002, 09:53:32 am »

[former member]

I think you're missing one big point here. JimH is in this to make a profit. And what's wrong with that? If you've ever been involved with the development of a commercial project, you should know there's two basic ways of doing it. First, draw up the development plans, agree timescales and work tightly to it. Nothing wrong with that as long as you get the ideas and requirements correct in the first place. Secondly, start off with the basic plans but be prepared to include ideas as you go along. Nothing wrong with that either but you won't be able to decide up front what the package is going to contain or when it's going to be available. Advantage of no 1 - you've got timescales and costings more under control. Advantage of no 2 - you give your users a better product as they are constantly involved but there could be disadvantages in controlling where you're going with the package. But, and a big but, you've got to know where to draw the line and stop developing. Like JimH has stated a few times, his programmers want to be able to eat. And nothing wrong with that either. Sounds to me that whatever they do, you'll never be satisfied. In which case, why not uninstall MJ and write your own package. Maybe JimH will give you back your $25 as a parting gift.

IQ10 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2002, 10:07:29 am »

Hi JollyJim, I am not against JimH, his programmers, you, me, KingSparta, or McDonald's having bread to eat. Or a Lexus 430 in every driveway. I do believe that the methods and economics for doing this have changed. You have only to read what posts remain (after deletion of editing) regarding Digital Objects, and the ACLU (Artists Compulsory Licensing Union), and new metrics for measuring and paying for the use of new technologies, to realize that you present a false dichotomy in your post above. As I said in another thread, sometimes the most difficult problems are those in our head. After ten years of high fashion picture taking, it is difficult for the emperor's photographer to figure out a price to charge for each picture.

[former member]
Peace

JimH · « **Reply #36 on:** March 02, 2002, 10:59:20 am »

IQ,
> Hi JollyJim, I am not against JimH, his programmers, ......

Right. If you want to work together, you have to work together. I don't think you'll ever understand that. In your post above, for example, you suggest that people should desert MJ because we don't like your ideas.

JollyJim,
You got it right.

There is a joke that applies to the size of a develpment team:

One woman takes nine months to have a baby, but nine women can't do it in one month.

IQ10 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 02, 2002, 11:18:55 am »

The biology of baby making is not that of Digital Object Techonology.
Baby making does not benefit from community participation.
I think Digital Object Technology does.
I think you should re-focus your efforts on a Kit that teaches others to control and harness their computer's inherent carte blanc capability to interact with media files.
Maybe a Media Jukebox for Dummies.
You could start with a capability to easily allow the user to select his own boot up first screen and sound.
You would make a million by teaching the user how to take control of his own screen real estate, beginning with boot time.

JMHO

[former member]

JollyJim · « **Reply #38 on:** March 02, 2002, 12:07:40 pm »

i'm bored... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jim

JimH · « **Reply #39 on:** March 02, 2002, 11:16:31 pm »

IQ,
You insult a lot of folks with IQ's above 100 when you suggest that only people who agree with me remain interested in this forum.

We have to make tough decisions about what we do all the time. We listen to everyone, including you. We just don't do things your way.

In the case of a debugging system, I'm interested to hear what others think, but we aren't going to replay something we've done before. If you and your team have a better way, you either have to convince us we're wrong or do it on your own.

Please believe that we have considered what you're suggesting in this thread.

Sycophants for Peace,

Jim

PHudson · « **Reply #40 on:** March 03, 2002, 12:53:24 am »

OK, I misunderstood [former member]'s wishes.

I've no wish to have JimH and his team change their approach in that way. I'm just a consumer, wanting a more reliable MJ that, ideally, reflects some of the suggestions I've made because it will then reflect thet way I want it to work.

I would like to have more visibility of bug reports, and I'm willing to put some effort into helping with that. JimH - if that's at all useful, let me know.

P.

IQ10 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 03, 2002, 02:08:31 am »

JimH wrote> "We listen to everyone, including you. We just don't do things your way"

I can accept that. In fact, I like it that way. I think the core of my anger is to see that any of my words have been changed. For better or worse they are mine, and I need to keep it that way.

Please try and not be insulted . I insult myself half the time. Even self agreement can be boring.

It is Sunday; another new day!

[former member]

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