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[DGoswell]

I have some albums that have a sequence number different to the track number.
This means that playback does not match the original track listing.
I cant find any logic to how this happens on some albums and not all of them.
Any Thoughts ?
Dave

[glynor]

Easiest thing would be if you post a screenshot.

There's something in the sort order for your view making it sort to a different order.

[MrC]

This is almost always due to differences in the Disc # field.  Make sure it is the same value for a single album or album's disc.  Check the Disc # field in the Tag Action Window with the relevant tracks selected.

[DGoswell]

I've looked into the Disk # field and it is empty, should it have a number ?

[MrC]

For single disc albums, leave it empty.

Let's check your metadata...

Select the files in question, and use File > Export Playlist.  Select:

   Format: Text File (CSV delimited)
   Included Fields: All Fields
   Output Range: Selection

Save it to the Desktop, zip it, and attach it in a reply here.

Also, show a screenshot as glynor mentioned of the view.

[DGoswell]

Hopefully this file works

[MrC]

You have more than a single Album Artist, and some are blank, so MC will treat these as different albums.  Clear the Album Artist field for all the tracks, and refresh the view.

You also have different Dates, but I don't recall if that will affect the view or placement into Playing Now.

[Edit: I removed my previous reply; I figured out what was wrong on my end].

[DGoswell]

Thanks Mr C, That is the answer.
However I have been copying the Artist Name into the Album Artist field as I have found that is the only way to make the Artists name appear , on compilation albums, when viewing Artists only.

[MrC]

The views use the field Album Arist (auto), but that shows in the headers as Artists.

Have a read of:

    http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Album_Artist_and_Album_Artist_%28Auto%29

You should set your fields correctly, and customize views to suit your needs.  Leave Album Artist empty when Artist contains the same value, or when you want MC's auto value of "(Multiple Artists)" to be used in views.  If you have compilation albums, and you want a single artist name shown, set Album Artist for all tracks to a single value.

[theloniouscoltrane]

So I pulled together all the songs used for the soundtrack in Hell on Wheels, added them into the file, then carefully gave each a Track# so they would play in order that they appeared in the show. I clicked on track #1 to start it off and when that was finished, it went to track 11, then 13, then it stopped.

I found a column headed as SEQ and noted by the tiny "1" that MC was playing the tracks in that order, not in the order I visually had them in, which was ascending track numbers. I tried to get rid of the SEQ column by unticking its check-mark on the list. The column disappeared, but the music continued to use the SEQ column numbers in ascending order. I tried putting everything else in the priority list (i.e. the tiny numbers showing in the column headers), and it still played in the SEQ order. I was going to manually change every number (boring) in the SEQ column, but now the SEQ column is gone and I can no longer find it in the drop up list that you get when you right-click the column headers.

And here's another weird thing. This all describes behavior in "Playing Now" If I switch to Audio Albums view, and double click Track #i and click "Sort all files by track #" the album plays in the proper order. Then, when I switch back to "Playing Now" it plays in order, but only because the SEQ column now matches the Track # column.

So the problem is fixed, but I have no idea why, and I have no idea what the purpose of this SEQ column is. What is this thing and how do I get rid of its nefarious powers to screw up my musical enjoyment?

Thanks in advance for educating me.

[MrC]

A playlist is a sequenced order of tracks.  The Seq column indicates this order.  Sorting the view for viewing does not change this playback sequence.  Playing Now is just a playlist.  The column Seq is automatically added to a Playlist view.

Use Update Order at the top a Playlist view to change the order (updates the Seq number to match the view's order).

In any other type of view, your tracks should be added in the order as defined by the view's grouping and sort of the file list.

[DGoswell]

Thanks Mr C.
I'm afraid that you and JRiver have presented me with an impossible solution.
I've read these articles before and find them very confusing.
As a user of the JRiver Media Centre I would like the ability to be able to search for any track by artists name.
Clearly when an album by an artist is loaded then this is clear, however when a compilation album is loaded then it is not clear.
In the link you sent it states "The Album Artist field itself becomes just a way to override Album Artist (Auto). If you don't like the default of "(Multiple Artists)", then you can put whatever you want into Album Artist, and MC will use that instead."
Sorry but I dont understand this "you can put whatever you want into Album Artist, and MC will use that instead" suggests that I can do what I have been doing. However as I've stated, yes you can do what you want however the album wil not play in the sequence it was designed.
Can you give me a simple instruction that will enable me to take a compilation album and enter it in such a way that I can search by each individual artists name, without the order of the compilation album being randomly re ordered.
Sorry to break this down to simple steps but I have no choice based on information that appears designed for programmers.
Dave

[6233638]

Can you give me a simple instruction that will enable me to take a compilation album and enter it in such a way that I can search by each individual artists name, without the order of the compilation album being randomly re ordered.

The album should be sorted by track #.
A screenshot of your current view might be helpful.
 
Compilation albums should be tagged with the individual artist name in the [Artist] field.
When there are multiple artists on an album, it should display (Multiple Artists) as the Album Artist by default, if the field is empty. A common mistake is that people group by [Artist] and not [Album Artist (auto)] which does not group albums correctly.
You can also assign a specific artist to the album via the [Album Artist] field if you want. (e.g. whoever made the compilation)

[MrC]

Here's a view showing two compilation albums, one which uses Album Artist to override the various artists, another which allows the automatic Multiple Artists grouping.

Searching will search on ALL of these fields, so you don't have to worry about which field you place values in.  The field you use is dictated by how and where you want the default views to group an album (e.g. under "(Multiple Artists)", or under Album Artist's value, or under individual Artists.

In the view, not shown, is an album that has no Album Artist value, but all tracks have the same Artist.  Album Artist (auto) will be that Artist.  All the stock views use Album Artist (auto) as the basis for grouping, and a grouping is what is used for Double Click or Play behavior.  There's a lot of built-in magic, which takes a little while to get used to, but most of the time, everything works just fine.

[DGoswell]

Thanks for that, here is the screenshot for the album in question, I finally mastered the technology.
Because it is a Multiple Artist album it is not possible to look up any of the Artists when selecting Artist view.

Has the magic been turned off ?

[6233638]

Because it is a Multiple Artist album it is not possible to look up any of the Artists when selecting Artist view.

You can search for an artist in the top-right corner.
The "Artists" view groups by [Album Artist (auto)] because most people do not want to see individual tracks off a compilation album listed separately.
 
To do what you want, right-click the artists view, and select customize view.
Edit the [Album Artist (auto)] section to be [Artist] - though I think you will quickly see why Artist is not typically used.

[DGoswell]

Thanks for this but it does not work in Theater view.
Is there a way to modify Theater view to work as you say ?

[MrC]

You're going to have to become familiar with how views work in MC, and how Search works.

There are a couple of view types: Category, Panes, and File Lists.

Categories by their nature only present a single "category" at a time, and you have to drill down into deeper categories.  Theater View is a category view, so you have to drill down to find additional categories that you've configured.  You'll either have to construct a view that works best for you, or work within the stock views.  It sounds like you want Album Artist (auto) most of the time, be on a whim, might want to expand to see all Artists.  Jumping to Theater View's Search might be the best thing for you here.  Customize Theater View at Tools > Options > Theater View.

Panes are also like categories, except that you see all the categories side-by-side, for easy selection - it is like categories flattened-out.

File Lists just present a list of files.

[theloniouscoltrane]

To the helpful folks out there that have mastered MC, thank you for your responses. However, those of us with questions may not be quite so dumb as we appear.  I appreciate the fact that MC seems to be infinitely adjustable, but there should be an easier way to jump in and get started. That would be better for the owners/fans and better for the potential buyer. 

Even after reading all that's here, I don't understand the need for Album Artist and Album Artist (Auto). I find this quote particularly confusing:

"The "Artists" view groups by [Album Artist (auto)] because most people do not want to see individual tracks off a compilation album listed separately."

For instance, in every other similar program, I don't have to worry about a compilation album being separated by artist because they all share an album name and are tied together by that. Why would MC automatically separate them?
 
"To do what you want, right-click the artists view, and select customize view. Edit the [Album Artist (auto)] section to be [Artist] - though I think you will quickly see why Artist is not typically used."

Could you just tell us what the problem will be?

Again, I appreciate the complexity of MC. The main reason I am here is because the DSP Studio neatly allows a convolution filter. And I understand that the designers are working to find solutions to problems most of us don't even know exist. However, when some of them end up being so incongruous that only a gifted few seem to have been able to fully penetrate the logic ("You're going to have to become familiar with how views work in MC, and how Search works."), perhaps some of the more complex items could be simplified a tetch. Just a thought.

[MrC]

Nobody is implying anything about intelligence level; rather, its just that a complex program just requires some experience.

The problem that Album Artist (auto) attempts to solve is to provide both a single name for browsing by Artist, without polluting the Artist name space with rare or esoteric artists typically found on compilation albums.  Some of use have very large collections of compilations.

I have a view that shows all Artists.  There are 2268 of them, far too many to browse.  I can't imagine I ever want to find tracks by the artist named "(Em:zeh)" or "8up", but each of them appears on a compilation album.

The stock views would group by Album Artist (auto), so that when browsing by the views named Artist, only 680 artists appear, a much more reasonable (yet still large) set of (primary) artists.

You don't have to use Album Artist (auto) or Album Artist, and can stick entirely with Artist.  But you will have to customize the views as mentioned above.

I think your characterizations and generalizations about usage models and people do not reflect MC's user base.  As far as an easier way to jump in a get started, the stock views and model does this.  However, and this is important, you are asking for customized behavior that suits your own particular tastes and needs.  As mentioned, not all of us want to see every track artist, and in fact rarely ever browse by them.  And this holds especially true in a Categories view such as Theater View, which is being navigated by many via a simple remote (that's a lot of button presses).

[theloniouscoltrane]

I have 3,302 artists across 6,928 albums and I have no idea where to even start to find the "stock views would group by Album Artist (auto), so that when browsing by the views named Artist, only 680 artists appear." Maybe it would help to learn it. In the mean time, if I need to find something fast, I tap the left screen under "Albums" or "Artists" then go to the upper right hand search box and type in my search. Or go to files and simply pull down to where I know the music resides. Obviously, there must be much for me to learn.

[DGoswell]

Mr C,
I have to disagree, I want to be able to find tracks from an Artist in Theater mode.
I have a 15,000 track database containing some 20 - 30 compilation albums and I have never seen weird Artist names as you have quoted.
Be that as it may, thanks for directing me to the Theater view in Options.

In the advanced section I've selected Tag menu fields Auto and have selected Album & Album Artist.
This has made no difference to the Theater View/Artists for my example Album. It still appears as Multiple Artist

[MrC]

I have 3,302 artists across 6,928 albums and I have no idea where to even start to find the "stock views would group by Album Artist (auto), so that when browsing by the views named Artist, only 680 artists appear." Maybe it would help to learn it. In the mean time, if I need to find something fast, I tap the left screen under "Albums" or "Artists" then go to the upper right hand search box and type in my search. Or go to files and simply pull down to where I know the music resides. Obviously, there must be much for me to learn.

I'm not sure if there's a question in your reply, or just a statement.

The Audio > Artists view in Standard View mode does exactly that.  It groups various artists under "(Multiple Artists)", and all other (primary) artists are listed.  It works like that so long as Artists contains track artists and Album Artist, if set, contains an overriding single name for the album.

[MrC]

Mr C,
I have to disagree, I want to be able to find tracks from an Artist in Theater mode.
I have a 15,000 track database containing some 20 - 30 compilation albums and I have never seen weird Artist names as you have quoted.
Be that as it may, thanks for directing me to the Theater view in Options.

In the advanced section I've selected Tag menu fields Auto and have selected Album & Album Artist.
This has made no difference to the Theater View/Artists for my example Album. It still appears as Multiple Artist

This isn't a disagreement between us - rather, just a difference in preferences.

Go to Tools > Options > Theater View, and under Items to Show, select Artist under Audio.  Now, select Album Artist (auto) on the right under Details.  Click Edit, and select the Artist field (instead of Album Artist (auto)) and OK your way out.  Now you will be browsing by Artist.

[DGoswell]

Excellent.....Have now setup to find all Artists in Artists view in Theater mode.

Thanks for you support.

I hope this has been of use to other users as well.

[6233638]

For instance, in every other similar program, I don't have to worry about a compilation album being separated by artist because they all share an album name and are tied together by that. Why would MC automatically separate them?

I'm not sure that's correct. I think most players will only display tracks by that Artist, when grouping files by Artist rather than Album Artist.
 
Media Center does have a function to expand search results to the full album inside a smartlist, which I have used in my "random album" smartlist.
 
However, I am unsure about whether or not it is possible to use this inside standard library views. I've experimented a little, but was unsuccessful in getting it to work.
 
MrC is a lot more knowledgeable in this area than I am - perhaps he might be able to figure it out?

[MrC]

Media Center does have a function to expand search results to the full album inside a smartlist, which I have used in my "random album" smartlist.
 
However, I am unsure about whether or not it is possible to use this inside standard library views. I've experimented a little, but was unsuccessful in getting it to work.

A view uses the rules of Set rules for file display (its own, and possibly inherited from the parent) to limit the set of files.  And then the view's categories further narrow this set of files, based on the category selection.  But there is no way to have a subsequent Smartlist use as input this resulting set of files.  However, a Search List category in a Panes View can do just this.  But this doesn't work, nor would it be a good solution in Theater View or a Standard View/Categories view (which is a category drill-down type of view).

[6233638]

I thought that might be the case. A shame, as I can think of a couple of examples where that might be useful.

[MrC]

Try it in Panes view.  Add three columns: Album, Artist, and a Search List as the last column (define it with only the modifier ~a, and name it Expand Album).  Have the view Always Show Files, and make sure Filter in both directions is enabled.

Now select a compilation album that has an Album Artist, and you'll see all artists under Artist.  Select one of those.  In the file list you'll see files from the the album by only that artist.  Now selected the Search List entry Expand Album.  The entire Artist will now show.