Topic: Gapless playback (Read 8903 times)

marcusturle · « **on:** June 02, 2014, 01:05:02 pm »

Am I missing something or has the gapless option disappeared from the latest version of JR Mac 19?

Wybe · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2014, 01:39:08 pm »

Tools > Options > Audio > Track Change

marcusturle · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2014, 02:02:15 pm »

There are no options within Audio under Tools > Options.

It says: ! Configure Audio using Options > Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Servers

I can't find anything under Add or Configure DLNA Servers offering gapless playback

MrC · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2014, 02:06:16 pm »

DLNA only supports gapless if the player and the server both support the required protocols. And not many players support this.

marcusturle · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2014, 02:33:22 pm »

My player is a Denon CEOL Piccolo which states that it does support gapless.

Server is MC19, pulling files from a Synology DS713+.

I'm happy to be corrected but I don't think the hardware is the problem. The issue is that I can find no option to select gapless playback within MC19. It used to be there but I can't find it now...

MrC · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2014, 02:48:46 pm »

The player listed under Playing Now can be right-clicked. There are DLNA Controller Options listed. The SetNext Support option is typically enabled, and SetNext is the protocol required to perform gapless.

When you say the Denon CEOL Piccolo supports gapless, does it specifically state it supports gapless over DLNA?

marcusturle · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2014, 10:52:15 am »

It doesn't specifically refer to DLNA, no. But there are various anecdotal references online to the CEOL supporting gapless over DLNA, including here (although you have to hunt for it in the text):

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80965.0

http://www.whathifi.com/review/denon-ceol-piccolo/user-reviews

I've checked SetNext Support and the option is indeed enabled as you suggested.

However, when I click on Player > Playback Options I get none of the options. It just defaults to the "Configure Audio using Options > Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Servers" window, and there are no playback options within Add or Configure DLNA Servers.

MrC · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2014, 12:20:32 pm »

You can check if the SetNextAVTransportURI is supported using Intel's Device Spy. See:

   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70790.msg479004#msg479004
   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79069.msg537764#msg537764
   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74851.msg520145#msg520145

Even if listed, it may not actually be supported (well).

marcusturle · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2014, 01:14:52 pm »

I asked Denon to confirm whether the CEOL Piccolo supports gapless.

They replied that it supports gapless over DLNA for WAV and FLAC only. So far so good.

I also asked whether it supports SetNextAVTransportURI. Their reply on this was less helpful, but it might help you answer my original question: "This model has been certified to work with those specifications that are outlined in the DLNA guidelines version 1.5."

MrC · « **Reply #9 on:** June 04, 2014, 01:23:26 pm »

This is where you just have to try it using FLAC or WAV, and see how it works. If it fails, JRiver's "bob" will have to pick up from here, since he's their DLNA guru.

marcusturle · « **Reply #10 on:** June 04, 2014, 01:42:17 pm »

For anything served to the Denon from MC I get the same message when I hit Playback Options: Configure Audio using Options > Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Servers...

There are no playback options under Add or Configure DLNA Servers.

Perhaps 'Bob' can shed more light?

MrC · « **Reply #11 on:** June 04, 2014, 02:00:13 pm »

The options for the server are in the DLNA Servers dialog (Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers...). You select a server, and configure the options you want that server to support.

More advanced options are under the Advanced section at the bottom of the dialog.

It sounds like you may not be able to PUSH to the Denon.

marcusturle · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2014, 02:38:04 pm »

I can push to the Denon no problem. It plays the files, the issue is that there are no playback options that I can see for things like 'Track Change', 'Stop, Seek, Skip' etc. (which would include gapless).

I get all this when I play through my laptop, but not when I push to the Denon.

The Advance section you mention doesn't refer to gapless unless I'm missing it.

MrC · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2014, 02:40:51 pm »

I'm sorry I haven't been clear.

There are NO options to enable / disable gapless, other than to enable/disable SetNext support. There are so few renderers that work with gapless (maybe you can count them with your fingers) there isn't much reason yet to provide options.

marcusturle · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2014, 03:43:28 pm »

Ok, so if I understand you correctly on the Playback Options point, there are no options when pushing to a renderer other than basic play, pause, stop etc? The playback options listed when playing through my laptop ('Track Change', 'Stop, Seek, Skip' etc.) are not available when pushing to a renderer?

Going back to my question on gapless, you're saying that gapless will work provided that (a) SetNext support is enabled (which it is by default on my MC19), and (b) my Denon supports SetNext?

That being the case, can Bob clarify whether Denon's response ("This model has been certified to work with those specifications that are outlined in the DLNA guidelines version 1.5.") means it does support SetNext or not?

Thanks.

MrC · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2014, 03:49:55 pm »

I think we're confusing Options with Controls. You've been asking about Controls; I've been commenting on Options.

When you use MC to push, you can change tracks, stop, and skip. Seek is often less reliable.

Don't get hung up on the DLNA protocol version Denon quotes. What's important is that the implementation is tested and works with the server, and therein lies the challenge.

adamt · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2014, 04:06:17 pm »

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80965.0

Quote

The end result is this: you have to manually create a DLNA server config in MC that does not transcode the media. You then have to manually associate that server with the renderer in MC (look at the renderer context menu). Now MC will send the un-transcoded file format, which in my case was FLAC. And guess what: once the devices recieve lossless data, gapless works perfectly!

This thread might offer some clues. Something to try is going to [Options > Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA servers] and changing the Mode to Original. Perhaps changing the format to something other than MP3 as well. Not 100% sure, but it sounds like what he's suggesting.

marcusturle · « **Reply #17 on:** June 05, 2014, 03:40:50 am »

Quote

Don't get hung up on the DLNA protocol version Denon quotes. What's important is that the implementation is tested and works with the server, and therein lies the challenge.

Mr C - you questioned whether my Denon supports gapless over DLNA. I asked Denon that exact question, and they replied by reference to the protocol. I'm going to assume by your (somewhat evasive) response, that the Denon does indeed support gapless over DLNA.

That being the case, I'm no closer to understanding why there are gaps when I push Flac files from MC to the Denon. The setup works (in that I can play, stop, skip), but there is no gapless playback on any files.

marcusturle · « **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2014, 04:01:58 am »

Quote

Something to try is going to [Options > Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA servers] and changing the Mode to Original. Perhaps changing the format to something other than MP3 as well. Not 100% sure, but it sounds like what he's suggesting.

adamt - thanks. I've checked and I had this set up already. Still isn't playing gapless...

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** June 05, 2014, 06:33:10 am »

Most DLNA devices don't support gapless. This could be the case here. You could ask them to test it or tell you a program that does work with it.

We could also assist if they want to talk directly to JRiver.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2014, 08:39:17 pm »

^

First a general comment: The settings in MC that relate to UPnP gapless playback are not under Tools Options.

This is because it is not an attribute of the server, but rather an attribute of the player. So to turn on gapless support for a particular UPnP player you need to right click on the player (in Playing Now) and check its "Enable SetNext support" option.

Quote

This model has been certified to work with those specifications that are outlined in the DLNA guidelines version 1.5

This is a slithy statement. The SetNextAvTransportUri function is defined in all the specifications and certification guidelines as an optional function. So not implementing it is equally compliant as implementing it. It either indicates that the Denon guy does not know what he is talking about (most likely) or that he is feeding you B-S. So my assumption (until proven otherwise) is that your Denon does not actually support gapless playback...

marcusturle · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2014, 02:24:25 pm »

Thanks AndrewFG. I will go back to Denon for confirmation.

When I right click on the player in Playing Now, there is no 'Enable Setnext support' option. Only 'Disable Setnext Support (for broken renderers)' within 'DLNA Controller Options'.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2014, 03:46:16 am »

Quote from: marcusturle on June 06, 2014, 02:24:25 pm

When I right click on the player in Playing Now, there is no 'Enable Setnext support' option. Only 'Disable Setnext Support (for broken renderers)' within 'DLNA Controller Options'.

Yeah ok. You should disable it if it turns out your Denon does not support gapless; otherwise leave it on.

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Author Topic: Gapless playback (Read 8903 times)