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[DavidZ]

Hi -- I use a Synology 413j NAS to hold my JRiver library folders, of which I have 2: "Main Library" and "DSD Library". Recently I embarked on a project to upsample all my PCM files to double DSD. The .dsf DSD files are transferred from my Zuma computer the to DSD Library folder on the 413j. I set JRIver to auto-import files from the DSD Library folder on the Synology server. I do the upsampling with Korg Audiogate software, which exports the .dsf files to the DSD Library folder. All proceeds normally. But then, hours later, or maybe the next day, I notice that files have been moved from the DSD Library folder to the Recycling bin on the Synology server; more precisely, somehow there is a "DSD Library" subfolder within the Recycling Bin that somehow was created. I naturally assumed the Synology OS was doing something flakey, and badgered them for the past few weeks to get an answer.

When the answer finally came an hour ago, it was cryptic and explains nothing. It does, naturally, blame JRiver for the problem. Here is the e-mail I received:

Hi David,

Our developers have confirmed and can reproduce the fact that JRiver will delete any and all data from the "JRiver library path" which on the Disk Station is /volume1/audio hold/DSD Library

Our recommendation is to not put any files in that directory. I would recommend following up with JRiver about your issue.

****************
This makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Why would JRiver delete files from this particular library and not my "Main Library" folder when I put stuff there? Is there something inherently evil/wrong with the name "DSD Library" for the folder? Why is this issue not rampant with other JRiver / Synology users --- there have to be quite a few out there. Just insanely frustrating. I have not been able to talk to anyone directly involved in this case at Synology.

If you wish more gory detail, I started a thread on Computer Audiophile a week ago: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/synology-problems-big-time-cautionary-tale-20761/

If anyone on Interact has some clue, I would be grateful... Thanks. -- David

[DavidZ]

Hi -- I wanted to bump this with some new information. Before I left town on Friday for 2 days, I transferred some .dsf files into the DSD Library and verified they transferred ok. Then I shut down both of my Windows clients on the Synology server, including the Windows 8 computer that has JRiver installed. Only the Synology server was “live” over the past couple of days. Sure enough, as of this morning all the files were still in the same place -- the DSD Library, where they belong. Before, nothing has made it past a few hours, without getting bumped to the recycling bin, since this issue has cropped up.
 
Lately I’ve noticed something else suspicious. Since I’ve had the recycle bin active, I’ve noticed that there are about 5 screen pages worth of .jmd files in the bin. These are non-music media files that JRiver creates, for tagging and other stuff, correct? 
 
Anyway, the next logical step is to turn JRiver back on and see if the .dsf files get booted into the bin. Can someone at JRiver have a look at this issue? Thanks. -- David

[DavidZ]

Hi -- I wanted to add one other clue about this anomaly. All the files that disappear are directly in the parent "DSD Library" folder. Files in a subfolder in that folder stay put as they should. Very strange. -- David

[glynor]

Is the DSD Library folder also the folder you've selected as the MC Library location for that Library?

MC takes full control over the Library (database, not the media files), and will clean out any files it finds that aren't part of the database (to ensure there aren't orphaned leftovers from crashes or whatever).

You should NOT, under ANY circumstances, have media files stored in MC's Library locations.  Those folders are just for MC's database, and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the media files themselves.

[DavidZ]

Glynor --- I will check tonight -- I'm not sure. It sure sounds like it would explain what is happening. Thanks! -- David

[glynor]

For the record, storing MC's Library (again, the database files, not the media files themselves) on a network volume is possible, but not generally recommended.  It can be handy in some circumstances to share the folder where the Libraries are stored over the network, but MC really, really, really prefers fast access to the database files, and will perform best with them on a fast, local disk (especially an SSD).

More info:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Network_and_Slow_Storage

[DavidZ]

Glynor -- I can't wait to get home and check, but it's a bit of a head-scratcher. What does the MC database library default to? Maybe when I set up the DSD library folder -- intended as the home of the media files -- I also ticked a box for the DB library as well. I know I didn't do it consciously. -- David

[glynor]

For the original Library, it defaults to the current user's AppData directory.

But when you add additional ones, there is no default, it asks.  I'm thinking when you set up the second library and it asked, you thought it was asking where the media files were stored, when it actually wanted to know where you wanted to put the second set of database files.

[glynor]

It's no big deal to move it.  Read the wiki article for the Library Manager and the page I linked above.

[DavidZ]

Glynor -- awesome, thanks for the help! -- David

[DavidZ]

Glynor --- Your diagnosis was correct. I was using the same folder for both the MC database and media files. I changed it last night so media files and the database are in separate files. Thanks so much for your help. -- David

[Mike48]

I'll take this episode as a +1 for my recommendation to change JRiver's terminology for its database; i.e., to stop calling it a "Library."

[JimH]

Confusion is always possible, no matter what the terminology is.

[glynor]

Confusion is always possible, no matter what the terminology is.

I agree, and I don't think it is worth (necessarily) changing the name of the Library.  However, I do think the messaging/error-checking when creating a new Library could maybe be slightly improved.

It says now:

"Enter a path to an existing library, or enter a path with no files in it to create a new library."

That's fine and all, but I can see how it could be confusing.  I think this should be improved so that if you add a path that contains existing files (a non-empty directory), then if an existing Library is not found (path contains files, but not a Library), it shows an error dialog.

In other words, force it to be empty, or containing an existing Library, not trust that the person read and understood the directions.  Also, the L in library should be capitalized in the above messaging.

[adamt]

That's fine and all, but I can see how it could be confusing.  I think this should be improved so that if you add a path that contains existing files (a non-empty directory), then if an existing Library is not found (path contains files, but not a Library), it shows an error dialog.

This is the current behavior.  If you choose a folder with files in it for a library, it will return a dialog that says "Cannot create a new library at the specified location.  The directory must be empty". 

[6233638]

I agree that separating things into "database" and "library" would remove a lot of confusion.
But I also realize that what appears like it would be a "simple" change would probably be a lot of work without much benefit overall.
 
Perhaps Media Center should inform the user if it's finding files which do not belong in the library location, rather than simply removing them?

[Vincent Kars]

If you go to a real  library, it is filled with books.
That is a true library, a room filled with books
To search them there is a catalog (the meta data).

For some reason or other in audio the catalog is called the library.
If people talk about their audio files they often call it a library.
A permanent source of confusion.
Catalog would be more apt for the database.