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Author Topic: DSD issues  (Read 8608 times)

elderavelas

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DSD issues
« on: August 06, 2014, 07:40:42 pm »

The following issues remain:

1 - When DSP is set to encode to DSD (1x, 2x or 4x), if changing from a PCM track to a DSD track it encodes the native DSD input to the DSD rate set in DSP Studio and causes a strong noise if using ASIO. This is happening with bitstreaming set to DSD. Stopping and playing the DSD track again makes the bitstreaming work properly.

2 - With no DSP enabled, in a playlist with a mix of PCM and DSD, when a DSD track that is followed by a PCM track ends, the last few seconds keep repeating and the next PCM track is never played. The length of the loop seems to be related to the prebuffer size. This happens for DoP. ASIO with native DSD plays fine.

3 - When using WASAPI, the last track of the playlist never ends. The track time display changes from the time to "waiting" a few seconds before the end of the track and remains like this indefinitely. My guess is that MC is trying to fill the prebuffer but there is no next track and it gets stuck. While "waiting" is displayed, the sound card is still being used by MC and no other program can use it despite MC is producing no sound.
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Matt

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 08:41:40 am »

I'm trying to reproduce #1.  I set a Mytek 192 DAC to bitstream DSD.  I set realtime DSD encoding to 1x in native format.  I play a DSD.  It's fine.  I transition to a PCM track.  It's fine.

What am I missing?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

John57

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 09:47:23 am »

Play a PCM track that is set for converting to DSD in DSD studio and then switch track to a native DSD track which should switch to DSD bitstream and it will fail every single time on your DSD DAC, mine and a few others.  Only a full stop and start will then the native DSD file will play correctly.
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Matt

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 09:50:50 am »

Play a PCM track that is set for converting to DSD in DSD studio and then switch track to a native DSD track which should switch to DSD bitstream and it will fail every single time on your DSD DAC, mine and a few others.  Only a full stop and start will then the native DSD file will play correctly.

It's working here on a Mytek Digital 192.
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 04:22:06 pm »

Is there a way to provide you a file that shows you all the settings of my MC so you could try with the same settings?
May be it is a particular configuration that is triggering the issue.
Will the logging be of use in this case?
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Matt

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 04:25:47 pm »

Is there a way to provide you a file that shows you all the settings of my MC so you could try with the same settings?

No, but you could describe them.
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 04:35:27 pm »

Can I provide you the entire MC directory so you can run it from it?
I could upload it to Dropox or OneDrive.

Tonight I will check my MC settings and try to describe them all (or print screen them all) to you.
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 07:50:55 pm »

Here attached are screenshots of the settings that has the issue.
I tried a variety of settings combinations, but all result the same issue.

This is the System Info:

Library
    Total files: 14487
    Audio files: 13322
    Image files: 10
    Video files: 897
    Other files: 258
Processing
    Thumbnails built: 90% (13080 of 14487)
    Audio analyzed: 100% (14219 of 14219)
Background Tools Running
    No tools currently running
Power
    No entries that affect the system power state
Media Center
    Version: 19.0.161.0 Registered
    Install path: D:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 19\
    Interface plug-ins: Interface Plugins: TiVo Server (not running)
    JRMark: 4541 (version 19.0.161)
    Memory used: 52,6 MB memory
    Handles used: 704 handles
Advanced System Info
    Memory & CPU
        CPU features: MMX, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, AVX
        Free Physical Memory: 11,6 GB
        Total Memory: 16,0 GB
    Operating System
        Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit
    Bluetooth Radios
        Dell Wireless 1703 Bluetooth (driver 7.4.0.115)
    Computer
        ACPI x64-based PC (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    Disk drives
        Generic- Compact Flash USB Device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Generic- MS/MS-Pro USB Device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Generic- SD/MMC USB Device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Generic- SM/xD-Picture USB Device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        SAMSUNG HD154UI (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        SAMSUNG SSD PM830 mSATA (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        ST3000DM001-9YN166 (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    Display adapters
        AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series (driver 13.251.0.0)
    DVD/CD-ROM drives
        HL-DT-ST BD-RE  BH30N (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        HL-DT-ST DVD-ROM GDRH20N (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
    Human Interface Devices
        Dispositivo de Entrada USB (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
        Dispositivo de Entrada USB (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
        Dispositivo de Entrada USB (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
        HID Non-User Input Data Filter (KB 911895) (driver 9.5.172.0)
        HID-compliant consumer control device (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
        HID-compliant device (driver 6.1.7601.18199)
        Mouse sem fio Microsoft Hardware  (driver 9.5.172.0)
    IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller (driver 11.1.0.1006)
    Imaging devices
        Microsoft LifeCam VX-7000 (driver 3.20.240.0)
    Keyboards
        Dispositivo de teclado HID (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
    Mice and other pointing devices
        Microsoft USB Wireless Mouse (Mouse and Keyboard Center) (driver 9.5.127.0)
        Mouse compatível com HID (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    Monitors
        Monitor Genérico PnP (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    Network adapters
        Adaptador de Miniporta WiFi Virtual da Microsoft (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Dell Wireless 1703 802.11b/g/n (2.4GHz) (driver 9.2.0.470)
        Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller (driver 7.50.1123.2011)
    Portable Devices
        R:\ (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        S:\ (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        T:\ (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        U:\ (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    Processors
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    Sound, video and game controllers
        AMD High Definition Audio Device (driver 7.12.0.7717)
        Áudio do vídeo Intel(R) (driver 6.14.0.3090)
        Microsoft LifeCam VX-7000. (driver 6.3.6002.0)
        Realtek High Definition Audio (driver 6.0.1.6537)
        YULONG Audio USB Driver 1.0.57 (driver 1.0.57.0)
    Storage volume shadow copies
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Cópia de sombra de volume genérica (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
    System devices
        Arquivo como Driver de Volume (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Atheros Bluetooth Bus (driver 7.4.0.90)
        Botão de recurso fixo ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Botão ligar/desligar ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        CMOS do sistema/relógio em tempo real (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Controlador de acesso direto à memória (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Controlador de High Definition Audio (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Controlador de High Definition Audio (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Controlador de interrupção programável (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Dispositivos de IV do Consumidor (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Driver de Barramento do Host do Virtual PC (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Driver de BIOS de Gerenciamento de Sistema Microsoft (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Driver de enumerador da unidade virtual Microsoft (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Enumerador de Barramento de Composição (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Enumerador de Barramento de Raiz UMBus (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Enumerador de dispositivos de software Plug and Play (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Enumerador UMBus (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Enumerador UMBus (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Enumerador UMBus (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Gerenciador de volumes (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 1 - 1E10 (driver 9.3.0.1020)
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 4 - 1E16 (driver 9.3.0.1020)
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 5 - 1E18 (driver 9.3.0.1020)
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family SMBus Host Controller - 1E22 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
        Intel(R) 82802 Firmware Hub Device (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Intel(R) H77 Express Chipset LPC Controller - 1E4A (driver 9.3.0.1020)
        Intel(R) Management Engine Interface  (driver 8.1.0.1263)
        Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        PCI bus (driver 1.0.7.248)
        Placa de sistema (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Processador de dados numéricos (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Recursos da placa-mãe (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Recursos da placa-mãe (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Recursos da placa-mãe (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Recursos da placa-mãe (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Recursos da placa-mãe (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Remote Desktop Device Redirector Bus (driver 6.1.7600.16385)
        Terminal Server Keyboard Driver (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Terminal Server Mouse Driver (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Timer de eventos de alta precisão (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Timer do sistema (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Ventilador ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Ventilador ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Ventilador ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Ventilador ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Ventilador ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Xeon(R) processor E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller - 0150 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
        Xeon(R) processor E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor PCI Express Root Port - 0151 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
        Zona termal ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
        Zona termal ACPI (driver 6.1.7601.17514)
    Universal Serial Bus controllers
        ASMedia XHCI Controller (driver 1.6.3.0)
        Controlador host eXtensível Intel(R) USB 3.0 (driver 1.0.7.248)
        Generic USB Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
        Generic USB Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
        Hub de raiz Intel(R) USB 3.0 (driver 1.0.7.248)
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 1E2D (driver 9.3.0.1011)
        Intel(R) 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 1E26 (driver 9.3.0.1011)
        USB Composite Device (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
        USB Composite Device (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
        USB Mass Storage Device (driver 6.1.7601.17577)
        USB Root Hub (driver 1.6.3.0)
        USB Root Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
        USB Root Hub (driver 6.1.7601.22526)
    Virtualização por USB
        Driver do Conector da Virtualização por USB (driver 6.1.7601.17514)

I hope this helps.
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K_C_

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 03:10:48 am »

It's working here on a Mytek Digital 192.

Are you using ASIO or DoP?
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John57

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 01:26:45 pm »

I can confirm that downgrading to version 19.146  that I do not run into this issue at all. Of course I will loose the 4xDSD feature that the later versions have.
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firedog

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 01:58:30 pm »

I have the same issue doing DSD over DoP. Using both ASIO and Wasapi.
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firedog

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 02:05:53 am »

I uninstalled the latest stable 19 version, including removing registry settings.

Went back to 18.0.202. That works. Both FW and USB under DoP.

Hopefully MC20 will be better.
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 05:04:02 pm »

I uninstalled the latest stable 19 version, including removing registry settings.

Went back to 18.0.202. That works. Both FW and USB under DoP.

Hopefully MC20 will be better.

I suggest you to install MC 19.0.146 and stick with it for now. It is the one that works better for me and it will very likely to work fine for you, too.
Make sure you disable automatic update (Help>Update Channels>Disable Automatic Update).

You can have both MC18 and MC19 installed at the same time and compare features and performance.
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firedog

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 08:20:06 pm »

thanks, that works
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Matt

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2014, 09:37:11 am »

Could you state in a detailed manner what the problem is?  What steps exactly reproduce it?
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2014, 10:02:31 am »

Could you state in a detailed manner what the problem is?  What steps exactly reproduce it?


1 - Set your output device as ASIO
2 - Enable bitstreaming (DSD)
3 - Set DSP to encode to any DSD native
4 - Play any PCM track - it should be encoded to DSD - check this with Audio Path window
5 - Stop
6 - Play any DSD track - it should be bitstreamed without any change - check this with Audio Path window
7 - Stop
8 - Play any PCM track and check the Audio Path window again
9 - Change to any DSD track directly without stopping - you should hear a strong hiss like noise and the music very softly under the noise - check the Audio Path and you will see that the DSD input is being changed by being encoded to DSD.
10 - Stop
11 - Play the DSD track again - now it should play fine - check the Audio Path window and you will see the DSD input being bitstreamed without any change.

I only get the noise for ASIO with native DSD. Using WASAPI and DoP I do not get the noise but the DSD input is encoded to DSD as well and there is no sound coming from the DAC.
May be different DAC's will output the audio differently, but all should have some issues trying to play what MC is sending to it.

Please see the attached picture.

Thanks,

Elder

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Matt

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2014, 01:20:11 pm »

It's so weird because I do the same and there's no problem.

Play a PCM.  Transition to DSD.  Transition back to PCM.  Everything works.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2014, 06:57:19 pm »

It's so weird because I do the same and there's no problem.

Play a PCM.  Transition to DSD.  Transition back to PCM.  Everything works.

Have you tried in a different computer? What about in a fresh install with no remains of a previous version?

How can we do a fresh install with no previous installation remains and with the possibility to revert to the previous installation the way it was?
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2014, 06:58:52 pm »

I upgraded to built 162 but the three issues are still happening.
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2014, 07:14:44 pm »

I installed the build 162 as portable. I just changed the audio device to my DAC's ASIO driver, enabled the DSD bitstraming, enabled the DSP 2xDSD encoding and changed the skin to Purity.
The noise issue happens the same way it happens with the normal installation. I did not test the other two issues.
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Matt

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Re: DSD issues (elderavelas)
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2014, 08:38:35 am »

I'm wondering if the issue is that your DAC doesn't switch gears properly.  It's possible it's in no man's land when the sample rate is quickly switched (despite returning success from ASIO calls).  Stopping and starting again give the DAC time to breathe, and might be the only solution.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2014, 01:53:41 pm »

My DAC works fine with builds up to 149.
How could my DAC make the MC encode a DSD input that should be bitstreamed?
If MC is encoding everything to DSD, my DAC does not "switch gears" at all unless if switching from 2xDSD to 1xDSD. The issue happens even switching from 1xDSD encoded PCM to 1xDSD native. Likewise for 2xDSD encoded PCM to 2xDSD native. In these both cases the output will not change at all. The only change is inside MC that is coming from a DSD encoded PCM to a native DSD

This issue and others started happening when you introduced this change in build 152:

1. Changed: When playing with real-time DSD output, a sample rate change of the input won't reset the output DAC.

Or may be when you introduced this on 150:

7. NEW: Added '4xDSD in native format' to the real-time DSD encoding choices.

As I never tried 150, I cannot say. Could you provide a link to download MC 19.0.150?

This is my bet to where looking for the bug.

Firedog, who is using a Mytek 192 DAC like you, is having the same issue. I advised him to move back to build 146 and it worked.
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Matt

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2014, 04:58:44 pm »

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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

John57

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2014, 06:29:33 pm »

Version 149 works just fine and should be the new stable version
Confirmed this with using my old AMD processor and the new refresh INTEL 4790 processor on a brand new  Z97 motherboard.

Version 152 will not work either. However native 4xDSD from the start works.

Version 146 to 149 works with IFI Audio iDSD NANO and the new Micro as well. The Teac UD-501-B should work just as well.
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Hendrik

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2014, 10:42:55 pm »

Its the change in 152. We'll be backing it out again to make playback stable again, and then retry later to implement it again properly.
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firedog

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DSD issues - when playing back in DoP mode
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2014, 02:40:08 am »

The issue I have with my Mytek DAC is switching from DSD tracks to a following PCM track in a playlist. The DSD track goes into a loop at the end of the track and doesn't continue to the PCM track that is next in the playlist.

This is  if I'm using DSD over DoP in Wasapi or KS mode.

It doesn't happen in ASIO.

It doesn't happen with "native" DSD.

190162 did exhibit this behavior for me. So far the latest build that works for me and DOESN'T do this is 190146. I haven't tried all the versions in between these two.

ted_b and other users at Computer Audiophile have confirmed this issue on the newer versions of MC 19 and beta versions of MC20.

Since I already paid for MC20, I'd appreciate it if this issue was cleared up, as my preferred mode is DoP.
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Hendrik

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2014, 03:02:33 am »

MC 19.0.163 should revert the behavior to what you saw in 19.0.146, and any new MC20 builds will also behave that way again.
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JimH

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2014, 08:39:30 am »

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firedog

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2014, 12:01:47 pm »

MC 19.0.163 should revert the behavior to what you saw in 19.0.146, and any new MC20 builds will also behave that way again.

Can confirm that 19.0.163 solved the problem for me.
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elderavelas

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2014, 08:12:35 pm »

Build 163 does not have issues #1 and #2 but issue #3 is still happening.
It looks like the time counter changes to "waiting" at approximately the same amount of time that prebuffering is set before the track end.
If prebuffering is set to 6 seconds, "waiting" will appear at the track time counter approximately 6 seconds before the track ending.
Sometimes the "waiting" indication eventually disappears and the audio device is released.
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John57

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Re: DSD issues
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2014, 11:46:30 pm »

Everything now works fine with the IFI iDSD DAC's that I have. Not having any of the three issues that elderavelas reports. No pre-buffering issues either. Most of the time I use the ASIO driver because that is the only way to play native DSD files without using DoP. I have more options and a cleaner sound using ASIO than WASAPI in my case.
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