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[RoderickGI]

Background:
I am running "EPG Collector" (EPGC) to collect Freeview XMLTV program data Over The Air (OTA), with MC running the process once a day as scheduled through Options > Television > Load Program Guide.

Problem:
I am refining the data I collect, but I'm having some issues when the load is run automatically by MC which do not appear when I run the load manually by stepping through the Load Program Guide settings dialogues. So I need to run the collection via the MC automatic process multiple times to test the issues.

However, if I do a load at say 8am, then change some parameters and want to run the automatic process again, I go through the settings (which forces a new manual load, annoyingly) and set the run time to some time in the future, say 10am.

The automatic process does not run on schedule at 10am.

I have mentioned this issue previously. It almost seems like MC will only automatically run a Program Guide Load once per day. It looks like it checks if a load was run on the current day, and if it finds a load has run, it doesn't run it at the scheduled time until the following day.

This means that I can only test an automatic load once per day, which is extremely frustrating. To make matters worse I can't read what I assume is a time stamp in the MC log file as I don't understand the format. If I could read the time stamp then at least I could check if some attempt was made to run the Program Guide Load at the scheduled time.

Question:
Is this the intended functionality, am I doing something wrong, or is there a problem with the program?

Yaobing, it would be fantastic if you could review what the program is doing, and fix it if it is a bug, or change the functionality so that multiple automatic scheduled runs will run on the same day, as long as the scheduled time is in the future. Then I may be able to debug the real issue I am having in a reasonable timeframe. Thanks.

[astromo]

I thought that the schedule is put on hold if there's a record job at the same time. That's why I set mine for 1 in the morning.

[Yaobing]

Also, if manual loading has been done recently (in the last few hours, maybe six hours), automatic loading is skipped.

[RoderickGI]

I thought that the schedule is put on hold if there's a record job at the same time. That's why I set mine for 1 in the morning.

This occurs even when there is no recording job running, or even scheduled anywhere near the scheduled Program Guide run. Beside, I have four tuners and running the Program Guide Load isn't very CPU intensive, so it wouldn't matter if a recording was running, or even if I was watching a video or TV.

Also, if manual loading has been done recently (in the last few hours, maybe six hours), automatic loading is skipped.

This is the behaviour I would like to see changed please.

While I want it changed because it would make tweaking and testing the Program Guide Load process much faster, it just makes sense from a functionality point of view. If a user sets a scheduled run time, the process should run at that time, and not second guess his/her intentions. I'm sure it was programed the current way for good reason, such as when load processes used to take a very long time, or to minimise the number of hits on Microsoft sites for automatic loads in America or similar, but it makes no sense for me using EPGC in Australia with OTA EPG data collection. There is no extra demand on the EPG source and very little load on the HTPC.

It would also be great if I wasn't forced to run the Load Program Guide process every time I change the run parameters or wish to change the run time. Again, this is mostly for testing as it adds 20 minutes to every test run I wish to do, and means that I have to monitor the process to be on hand to click the final two buttons to complete the update. If I could just change the parameters and/or run time, click through to save everything, then walk away and come back when it should have been completed, that would be much more efficient use of time. If a user wanted to run with new parameters immediately it wouldn't be difficult to add a button on the final dialogue window to save and run the load.

BTW, I am asking for this as I need to test with the automatic process, as it appears to function differently to when I run the load manually by clicking through the dialogues. Specifically, the automatic process does not complete but terminates at 10 minutes duration, while the manual process completes successfully. Once I can test all potential causes outside MC, that will be my next question regarding the Program Guide Load process.

Thanks for your consideration Yaobing.

[JimH]

While I want it changed because it would make tweaking and testing the Program Guide Load process much faster, it just makes sense from a functionality point of view. If a user sets a scheduled run time, the process should run at that time, and not second guess his/her intentions.

You're probably right.

[RoderickGI]

Let me give you an example of the frustrating testing process this issue is putting me, and no doubt other XMLTV users, through.

Yesterday the scheduled 8am Program Guide Load aborted after 10 minutes, which is the problem I am trying to solve. So I changed yet another Windows Power Option setting, then changed MC to run the Program Guide Load at 10am, which of course forced a manual Program Guide Load to run. I checked at about 4pm to see if the Program Guide Load had indeed run, and it had not. I decided to leave the schedule set for 10am, as any further change would result in another manual Program Guide Load.

This morning at 10:20am I checked if the HTPC was awake. As it wasn't, I assumed that either the Program Guide Load had run and aborted after 10 minutes, or it had completed in the usual 18 minutes and the HTPC has been put straight back to sleep. So I woke the HTPC to see what had happened. I use the EPGC logs to see what whether the Program Guide Load has run correctly, as I can't make sense of the MC logs and I don't want to touch MC before I check the Program Guide Load status.

Well, waking the HTPC kicked off the Program Guide Load, and EPGC started writing into its log as I was checking it! I forgot that sometimes after a manual Program Guide Load the following day's scheduled Program Guide Load can run up to 2 hours after the scheduled time. I have observed that previously. Usually after the first automatic Program Guide Load runs correctly, although late, the following days it runs on time. So it looked like it had taken me 26 hours to run one test, and the testing method had failed !!!

Fortunately MC still ran the Program Guide Load process automatically, and it still behaved as it had before. That is, the Program Guide Load aborted after 10 minutes and so EPGC failed to complete, so no XMLTV file was created, and the Program Guide was not updated.

If the MC Program Guide Load always ran first time, on time, as scheduled, instead of following some undefined internal rules as to when it may or may not run, then I could have completed this testing and perhaps solved the problem in a few hours. Or at least reported that there definitely is a problem with how MC runs the automatic Program Guide Load. Now I have to think if there is anything else about my HTPC setup that could be causing the automatic Program Guide Load to abort after 10 minutes, and spend another couple of days testing it, if I can think of something.

But I can tell you that it looks like MC is killing the automatic Program Guide Load process arbitrarily after 10 minutes, even though the external EPGC program has not completed. Is there some kind of time out programed in MC somewhere. Certainly I couldn't find any setting for a maximum time the Program Guide Load process is allowed to run. Having such a setting wouldn't even make sense, given that MC runs an external program to collect XMLTV data. What if I was running a series of program to gather data from multiple sources, and then running another program to combine the result? That sort of processing is likely to take more than 10 minutes.

Please make MC respect the Program Guide Load schedule, first time, every time, and on time, not delayed by some unknown variable factor. THANK YOU.

EDIT: Thanks Jim. Hopefully this can be sorted out. I appreciate your input.

[RoderickGI]

In an upcoming new build of MC20, the following changes will take effect:

9. Changed: If user has specified a time to automatically refresh television programming guide, MC will refresh the guide on or after the specified time, or as soon as possible thereafter, without regard to whether the user has run EPG wizard recently.

Thanks Yaobing. That is a good start. Much appreciated.

[Yaobing]

And this too:

Changed: Television EPG wizard pages are re-organized so that automatic daily reload option is presented before the actual loading of data, and one can choose to skip loading data (only to configure auto loading options).

[RoderickGI]

I'm going to have a hard time finding better and better celebration pictures!

[RoderickGI]

By the way Yaobing, is there any particular reason why the Load Program Guide function only allows running it on the hour?

After all MC has the ability to start recordings at any time, and even to wake the HTPC to do so. Why can't the Load Program Guide be run at any time?

I am using your new functionality for testing my EPG source and the automatic load process now, and it would have been nice to be able to set the automatic load to a few minutes into the future, rather than waiting for the next hour to come around. Not such a big issue, but it still slows down testing. Also, sometimes it is good to stagger start times for automatic operations, rather than have them all load up the PC on the hour.

I should have thought of that earlier. 
Cheers.

[Yaobing]

By the way Yaobing, is there any particular reason why the Load Program Guide function only allows running it on the hour?

After all MC has the ability to start recordings at any time, and even to wake the HTPC to do so. Why can't the Load Program Guide be run at any time?

I am using your new functionality for testing my EPG source and the automatic load process now, and it would have been nice to be able to set the automatic load to a few minutes into the future, rather than waiting for the next hour to come around. Not such a big issue, but it still slows down testing. Also, sometimes it is good to stagger start times for automatic operations, rather than have them all load up the PC on the hour.

I should have thought of that earlier. 
Cheers.

It just was not such a big deal to me when it was designed.  To me, you need to load the programs once a day.  It does not not have to be at any precise time.  So I just let you pick an hour.  Actually, it does not have to start running on the hour.  It starts any moment after your selected hour, on condition that no tuner is in use, and MC is running.

It would be too cumbersome for someone to have to select an hour, a minute, a second, etc. just to setup epg refreshing.  Also, you have to wait past the selected hour after you run the wizard manually since this is the way to test whether the auto loading should be running - have we run already since the selected hour.

Your testing need is a very special case.

[Yaobing]

Perhaps I can suggest the following work around for you:

When you need to do the tweaking and testing, set the auto loading time to the hour that has just past.  Then do your changes.  After the changes, run regedit, and navigate to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\JRiver\Media Center 20\Properties, and delete the following values:

"EPG - Last Refresh"
"EPG - Last Silent Refresh"
"EPG - Last User Dialog"

[RoderickGI]

Perhaps I can suggest the following work around for you:

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that.

It just was not such a big deal to me when it was designed.  To me, you need to load the programs once a day. 

Your testing need is a very special case.

Funny you should say that, because while you typed that I was commenting on another user's requirement for more frequent Guide loads, over here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92011.0

My testing definitely is a special case, although I guess other people do similar testing on occasion. But there are exceptions to the once a day EPG load paradigm.