Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mike Foran]

I am in the process of putting together a new media PC in my living room. I have been using an aging Mac Mini for media tasks for many years now. It has always been just good enough but not great. In recent years it has become more and more obsolete as I can no longer update the OS and much of the software. So it's time for it to go.

I am putting together a new system and want to use the MC as the core package that runs on it. It doesn't need to do everything, but what it does do I want it to do well. I am fairly new to MC.

Important Features:
- It needs to play audio exceptionally in speaker configurations up to 5.1. My current amp does not have a DAC so ideally the media center would be able to handle that. I would like it to play 24bit/96khz as perfectly as possible.
- It needs to play ripped video exceptionally at up to 1080p resolutions. Ideally unaltered Blu Ray rips should play without a dropped frame with good image quality. It should easily connect with internet streaming services.
- It needs to be quiet. If there is a fan in it I don't want to hear it ever.
- It should be easy to use with a remote without needing to use a keyboard or mouse for anything except maintenance. It should be easy enough to use that my grandmother could use it.
- It has to run Windows as the OS
- Ideally it should be small. I like the profile of the Mac Mini. But this is low priority.

Not Important:
- It doesn't need to do TV or any DVR features that would require cable card or anything like that.
- It doesn't need to play optical discs or rip them. No DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.
- It doesn't need massive storage. All media is stored on external or networked drives.

I would love to tap into the experience here for some good starting points for PC hardware. What hardware would you chose?

[Arindelle]

So you want a silent PC that gives you perfect video, 5.1 audio including an on board DAC in one very small box Well you are not asking for much 

SOme compromises might be in order. Either larger case, external DAC, or slightly reduced video quality. or some combination

Very small like a NUC or "apple mini size" depends on your video quality needs. I leave the video to the experts here, but running "gold" standard bluray playback using the ultra MadVR settings through JRiver requires, normally, a separate graphics card, which often equates to heat, which needs fans so it gets noisier if not plain loud. Also you need some space to put these GPUs in.

Now the new Intel HD graphics chip can give very good quality video, and its getting better every year ... ultra settings for MadVR ... not sure. But the October HQ settings should not be a problem. You should test this mode to see if this up to your expectations.

You mention a a good multi channel DAC that is internal, well can't do that with an "apple mini" sized pc.  I personally prefer external DACs for a number of reasons, but not having an extra box might be important to you.

The ease of use bit with a remote ... as long as you are happy with what a remote can do in JRiver, fine. but I would really recommend JRemote app on an ipad.  Its not the HTPC that going to make it simple enough for grandma, it your configuration of the software you use that will (euh maybe )

I have built a few HTPC for friends of mine based on Streacom and HD PLex cases. These are silent, very nice looking, passive cooling ... great for audio, and most video.  Take a look at their websites for their passive models.  They come in different sizes. and test Red October HQ settings in video like I mentioned. 

[Mike Foran]

Thanks Arindelle. This is a great start. I'm relatively new to JRiver's software and I wasn't even aware of the Red October settings, so that was educational.

I am not adverse to an external DAC as long as it isn't terribly expensive. Eventually I would like to upgrade my amp and offload that work altogether. So Perhaps this is a place I could compromise and just use an inferior on-board solution until that other piece can fall into place. But if a quality external DAC is affordable I might spring for one. Are there external DACs out there that people would recommend?

I am also not adverse to a discrete graphics card with fans, as long as those fans can be silented. I don't plan on running any PC games on this machine either, so I am really looking for a card that handle 2D and video decoding. I'm not sure that card exists; most the spec sheets I read focus on the 3D capabilities and only give passing info on video. But presumably such a card wouldn't need a bank of fans to function. But I will check into the Into HD specs and see if they fit the bill. I don't need 4K as I don't plan on going that route for many years yet, at which point I'll probably want to upgrade my entire system.

I'll look into the Streamcom and HD Plex cases. Thanks for the info, that's exactly what I was hoping to find.

[SBass]

I would like to join discussion in this subject as I have very similar expectations with regard to HTPC I want to build.

It is supposed to play virtually everything with excellent quality both movies and sounds, possibly with high madVR settings. Everything up to 1080p including 3d blu-ray iso and best possible sound like DTS HD Master. It should be combination of video and audio HTPC which will surpass capabilities of Oppo 105d. I will control it using iPad or tablet with android (Gizmo needed?).

I am reading a lot on the subject of htpc and understand it has advantages over standalone players even such as Oppo 105d which at some point wanted to buy.

I know that if you don't want any compromise on sound quality you need an external DAC so I want to include one (exasound or M2tech Young DSD).
JRiver will give me possibility of sacd iso playback and all other formats including dsd natively through a proper dac.

I would like to use hi-fi like looking case where Streacom or HD Plex is desirable in my build.

As I don't know Linux I would like to build the system around win 8 with JRiver and Jplay.
I will place HTPC in my living room next to TV and other AV components so I don't want to hear any noise from fans or spinning discs; all content will be streamed from external NAS.
HTPC will be connected to TV directly or through 5.1 AV receiver using hdmi connection. I would like to be able to output analog stereo sound from DAC to dedicated stereo amplifier and other channels using AV receiver.

So far I know I want:
- Streacom or HD Plex case (whichever fanless with optical drive flat or not; Streacom FC10 FANLESS CHASSIS looks perfect to me)
- external DAC (stereo or multichannel like exasound e28)
- SSD Plextor M5Pro 128 GB for Windows 8, JRiver and other necessary software including madVR

What I need else:
- RAM 16 GB (2x8GB), which brand, model?
- what motherboard (mITX is needed I guess for these cases with good quality usb connection for bitperfect transfer to DAC; do I need usb-B type connection)?
- what cpu (Intel is preferable I think, haswell Intel Core i7-47xxT)?
- what cpu passive cooler (is the cooler integrated with Streacom case?)
- what power supply and power adaptor (any pico or nano passive PSU?)
- what graphic card (fanless or strix, I think some powerful fanless current models from Nvidia)?
- what slim slot blu-ray reader (or recorder)?
- soundcard (I think I don't need to care as DAC will do the job)?
- any other accessories like thermal riser?
- what else?

Can you recommend hardware parts up to the task where silence and then performance is priority?
Please help me go through this project and others can benefit as well.
thx

[astromo]

I've got 2 HD-Plex cases.

Great gear. Can be a bit slow on the supply side if they're out of stock of your preferred case. Larry, the owner is a great guy. Very helpful. Their forum is also a handy resource.

The HD-Plex cases are great for audio and mid range, Standard Red October style video. HQRO will test your rig -heat wise- I'd expect, if you don't have a stand alone video card (that's how I roll). If you run a vid card (sensible if you go for HQRO) then heat management is an issue to address.

I run the lowest TDP CPU I can get. I've worked with the max spec before and I ended up cooking electronics. The mobo got progressively more erratic in terms of spurious shutdowns. Since changing, I also rearranged the shelving and general layout to maximise air movement but I'm still in a zero air con environment where the weather can get quite warm, so I tend to be cautious to avoid problems.

If audio quality is your goal, check out the linear PSU that HD-Plex has on offer. Also not a bad idea to get another heat source outside the case.

No experience with Streacom but they've also got a good track record. Have fun working out the best fit for your set up..

[Arindelle]

just a thing on heat for both streacom and hdplex -- 3 things to note if anyone is going that route

1) if you are going to push the envelope with processors and additional cards, an external psu  helps a lot ... I've never put i7s in these cases, but with i5s -- streacom makes a 150 watt external which gives a little leg room if you ever use an expansion card if the model supports it.

2) even if you can stuff a gpu card inside of some of the boxes, this is thes biggest heat source provided you get the newer intel porcessors. an i5 haswell or more recent can handle Red October HQ with no issues (base settings not full fledged MADVR) this is fine for me on a reasonably large tv -- check this if this is a prioity

3) these boxes need air flow around them -- I have done stress tests on a HDPlex and a Streacom and if you opt for external power supply (no expansion card 1 or no harddrive these run at 35° to 45° C ... so issues. On the stress test the HD Plex did slightly better I think it went to 55° and 60° respectively) these test you will never be running.

HOWEVER, if you put these things in nifty cabinetry which blocks the airflow around the exterior of the box, you will create an oven!. I like the HDplex construction better (heat pipes, thickness of the aluminum) however the FC5OD EVO streacom has a nice layout with enough room for a 4 to green hard drive (even 2) and a blu ray drive -- the HDPlex H3 was my favorite but they don't seem to be making them anymore (?) The HDPLEX H5 has a larger footprint than the Streacom, which is why I got 2 streacoms recently for friends.

Both are ideal for high end audio; (not sure if the fancy power supply HDPLex is worth it if you have a good DAC, but hey not going there )

Hi end video and multichannel is not my thing so, I'll leave recommendations to others

 

[SBass]

Thx guys for sharing your thoughts.

If I were to built just hi-end audio PC I would go the suggested route ie. using HD-Plex or Streacom,
but considering my demand on HQ settings in madVR I won't find appropriate case among above mentioned.

I come to conclusion that I will probably not be able to create fully quiet set and in high demanding video tasks
a discrete graphic card will produce some noise eventually.

Hopefully I can find a suitable case and a silent powerful graphic card. Maybe some of the new STRIX card?
The case should provide enough space for such a card.

[astromo]

If I were to built just hi-end audio PC I would go the suggested route ie. using HD-Plex or Streacom,
but considering my demand on HQ settings in madVR I won't find appropriate case among above mentioned.

I come to conclusion that I will probably not be able to create fully quiet set and in high demanding video tasks
a discrete graphic card will produce some noise eventually.

The updated H5:
http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4720&postcount=23
is planned to provide scope for a vid card but it's been on the cards since St Patrick's day. The luck of the Irish hasn't helped the timeline. Depends how much of a hurry you're in. I'd prefer to see how people go reporting performance.

[SBass]

The updated H5:
http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4720&postcount=23

Thx for the link as it gives some advice on video cards.

Nvidia 750Ti looks like a good option, as it draws 60W on average and is quite efficient and silent.
What is important it's short and would fit Streacom FC10 fanless which is limited to 178 mm.
Though I wonder how it would perform in video demanding applications like madVR.
If I used the strongest PSU 250W would it be enought with i5 haswell T processor?

2) even if you can stuff a gpu card inside of some of the boxes, this is thes biggest heat source provided you get the newer intel porcessors. an i5 haswell or more recent can handle Red October HQ with no issues (base settings not full fledged MADVR) this is fine for me on a reasonably large tv -- check this if this is a prioity

I think madVR is more dependand on a graphic card than CPU, but don't know the relations.

Unlike most HTPC tasks, madVR uses your GPU to handle its advanced scaling and image processing, and that is often a component that people do not consider when building a HTPC.

[Arindelle]

I think madVR is more dependand on a graphic card than CPU, but don't know the relations.

yes it would be. Just saying for those that don't need MadVR. Depending on the monitor/TV, distance to the screen etc. I'm not convinced that it is necessary for a lot of people.

Someone posted a nice graph about this here on the forum, but can't find it now

Although I gather that for people who want to use JRiver and put their money in dacs and amps and not pre/pros, mainstream HV receivers then the custom video settings available might be great -- this goes way beyond my expertise though

[SBass]

Is there hardware allowing hdmi-in?

I would like to be able to feed my cable TV signal into PC, use picture upgrades offered by JRiver and madVR and then send to AV receiver/TV by discrete graphic card hdmi-out and/or by dedicated PCI-E card.

Could it be one of the PCI-E cards with hdmi-in, eg. Intensity Pro https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/models or Live Gamer HD http://gamerzone.avermedia.com//game_capture/live_gamer_hd?

cheers

[felix2]

Perhaps not too late to share my experience on building a high-quality HTPC for the purpose of video & video, but not for playing games. My current HTPC is based on the Asus M4A785-M mobo, Phenom II x4 965 3.4GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, AMD HD5670 GPU running Win8.1-64. These are all mid-end hardware of a few years old and inexpensive. I also has a Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro recording card. I overclock the CPU by 10%.

With this setup, I can play video and audio of the highest definition, best color and smoothest actions. By that I mean play files streamed from a server via the gigabit LAN, video of 1080/60p at up to 35 Mbps bitrate. This is the highest specs for Blueray disc. Audio up to 24/192. All using JRiver. But this is not achieved without careful design and configuration of the entire system, learned from long experience. After many failures! Here, without order, are a few key things I learned:

1) HTPC gets hot especially playing high bitrate video and only lots of fans can control things. But lots of fans, or small fans, are noisy and very disturbing. After trying 3 cases, the problem is solved by choosing a large case which allows me to install 2 120mm fans at the front, plus a water radiator fan at the rear. I picked the Cooler Master HAF XB EVO case. The second case with a smaller cooling capacity burned out the power supply after 6 months. Only the large fans with rubber isolation deliver enough cooling and still stay quiet.

2) The decidedly mid-end GPU is enough for the most demanding video running JRiver Red October HD (madVR, highest quality scaling). No need to go further unless you play games.

3) You must configure your madVR carefully. Learn and do this and do trials on your situation. To give you an example of the extra demand of madVR, when I play a high bitrate video say 25 Mbps using Cyberlink PowerDVD 13, CPU runs at 25%. But play same using JRiver madVR, CPU runs at 75%. But JRiver certainly delivers a better picture quality on colors and fast actions. The demand on the HTPC, for a given resolution, is based on video bitrate. So you must know the highest video bitrates of your library in order to design the optimal PC for it.

4) For best quality, connect from the PC to the AV amp digitally. Use the GPU HDMI out connection for video, then either HDMI or S/PDIF optical output (mobo) for audio. Video decoding is always done by the HTPC running JRiver, then fed to the AV amp or TV as uncompressed video. For audio you have a choice of either using JRiver to decode, or feed the undecoded audio as 'bitstream' to the AV amp for decoding. If you wish to use JRiver to simulate surround sound from 2-ch video, this can be done (under DSP) but then the output will be encoded by JRiver as Dolby Digital multi-channel and can only be output via your mobo's S/PDIF port. HDMI audio cannot be used.

5) Make sure you TV is calibrated and its various color controls configured well. MadVR disables your GPU software color controls, leaving you only color controls from madVR. madVR color controls are crude so a TV not accurately calibrated will deliver compromised colors that hard to fix.

6) If you are streaming high bitrate video (20Mbps - 35Mbps) from a server you absolutely must have gigabit LAN and try to get your server PC run Windows Server instead of desktop Windows. Windows Server has higher LAN performance due to the network software design.