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[ferday]

this just started with build 0.39

i have the output device set to ASIO (which it always has been since MC17).  the "playback device" is set to the soundcard, (NOT to the JRiver driver)

the audio is stopping randomly (it appeared to be connected to the web, but it's happening with no web interface running)

this also happens with WASAPI exclusive.

when the audio stops, MC simply freezes (i.e. the timer stops counting, but the play button doesn't turn into a pause or stop).  if i press stop then play, the audio begins from where it was when it froze

any ideas?  i can make logs and stuff of course but first i'll see if there are any ideas that i'm missing something simple

thanks

[JimH]

Are you playing local files?

I don't know what this means:

"it appeared to be connected to the web"

More details might help.

Be sure to reboot if you haven't.

Try testing in Windows Control Panel > Sounds. 

Try playing with WMP.

[ferday]

Thanks for responding Jim

Are you playing local files?
yes, everything is local

I don't know what this means:

"it appeared to be connected to the web"
at first it seemed to happen while i was surfing the web and changed the page, etc. but it's now occurring while not using a browser

More details might help.

Be sure to reboot if you haven't.
so many times already

Try testing in Windows Control Panel > Sounds.
all installed devices test fine, including the JRiver wdm

Try playing with WMP.
don't have WMP but there are no issues in winamp, i've tested with and without browser.  also it hasn't happened so far during youtube viewing

[ferday]

OK, i've tracked it down a bit

it ONLY happens when outputting through the soundcard (either WASAPI or ASIO).  It doesn't happen when outputting to any of my other devices or the WDM.

however, if i play directly to my soundcard from another player (winamp or VLC) i don't get this stopping ever.  It's regular, but random (it'll happen a couple times per album but it's never the same point in an album, and isn't restricted to a particular album)

i've tried with files from 2 internals and 2 externals for storage and it's the same

obviously i have a configuration problem in my soundcard/MC relationship, but if anyone has a tip on where to start...

soundcard is STX Essence.  It has worked perfect for a year until MC 20 (and even then only until either 39 or 40 build).  going to 41 hasn't helped.

[ferday]

have tried: playing through all devices (onboard, soundcard, 2 external DAC's)
                playing through all available drivers (direct, wasapi, asio, WDM)
                playing from local internal and external drives, and networked drives
                uninstalling all antivirus
                stopping all services outside of necessary windows and JRiver


edit: i've found a way to "force" this event to occur:  if i search a text file (i was searching the logs) for a word that isn't there, when the windows box pops up telling me it can't find the word, JRiver stops playback identically to the "random" occurrences.....i'm starting to see a pattern in the random but don't know how to read the logs

[glynor]

edit: i've found a way to "force" this event to occur:  if i search a text file (i was searching the logs) for a word that isn't there, when the windows box pops up telling me it can't find the word, JRiver stops playback identically to the "random" occurrences.....i'm starting to see a pattern in the random but don't know how to read the logs

This is actually surprisingly helpful.

What happens when you do this is your soundcard makes the standard error "ding".  That's causing the driver to lock up when it happens at the same time that MC is using the sound card.  Assuming you have WASAPI Exclusive Access enabled, the sound should just be "blocked" from happening.  Instead, what is happening is that your sound card's driver is locking up and going sideways.  In other words, it is not handling Exclusive mode properly.

That issue, as described generally, is almost certainly a problem in the sound card's driver.  It is possible it is coincidence that it "just started" with a certain build of MC.  My guess, in fact, is that a Windows Update (we've had a bunch of MAJOR ones recently) broke something in your old sound card driver.  You correlated it with installing a new version of MC, but that was only coincidental.

Easy enough to test.  Download and install an old version of MC.  If you can roll back to a previous version of MC and the issue (now that you have a way to "force" it to happen) vanishes?  Then it is probably something specific to the new version of MC (either it has a bug, or your driver has a bug that was previously masked by something in MC).  If you go back to a version of MC20 from two or three weeks ago before the issue occurred and it does not change anything?  Well then, it isn't MC that changed, it is something else on your computer.

If that is the case, then look to your hardware maker for a new driver.

It is worth mentioning that it could, also conceivably be, that your sound card is physically dying.  This is probably unlikely, but it is possible.  Hardware does not last forever.

[ferday]

Well....thanks Glynor!

i happened to have not uninstalled MC19 yet...and sure enough the problem does not occur!  i'll try out a driver, but i updated it some months ago now (before MC20) and according to the website the driver hasn't changed (yet)


edit:  found some stuff on the STX forum about it, downloaded a recommended driver....and so far can't replicate the problem!  edited title to [solved] for now....and thanks again!!!

[glynor]

I meant an old version of MC20.  You can get old versions in all the old build threads posted here.  Go back to a version of MC20 from when you're sure it was before the problem occurred.

[mwillems]

I have an Asus Essence ST and can reproduce your issue, and possibly can shed some light on it (as I've been troubleshooting it myself over the past few days).

The Asus drivers have been, and still are flaky (in general).  They seem to be especially flaky when interacting with the new WDM driver.  

If I have the system default set to the WDM driver *and* something is playing to the ST in JRiver in an exclusive mode (WASAPI exclusive or ASIO): a long system sound or web sound will often either crash JRiver (CTD) or hang it.  If I set the windows default to something other than the WDM driver *and* other than the Asus, there are no problems of any kind.

I have separate zones for WDM audio and regular audio, so when the WDM kicks in it "simulates" two different sources trying to take control of the card.  If both zones are set to ASIO, JRiver crashes to desktop about 60% of the time.  If one zone is set to ASIO and the other to WASAPI I get hangs or static.

Basically the Asus PC soundcard drivers are turbo flaky, I get no behavior like this with any other device (including an Asus external sound device) even with the same computer.  

So my advice:  try setting the windows system default to something other than the WDM driver *and* other the Asus ST (i.e. the mobo soundcard or a digital output) and see if the problem persists.  If not, then we have the same problem (Asus has flaky drivers). If so, we have a different problem.

Currently, FWIW the most "stable" settings I've found are using ASIO for the main JRiver playback zone and WASAPI non-exclusive for the WDM zone.  With those settings, I don't seem to get crashes or very many hangs, just the occasional static when the WDM tries to horn in on playback already in progress.  I had initially planned to submit a JRiver bug report, until I did some additional testing and realized it was just Asus being Asus.

EDIT: ninja'd!  Hopefully the new drivers workout in the long run (I'm on the latest and still having these issues).  I'll leave my post above, in case you still have problems in the future.

[glynor]

edit:  found some stuff on the STX forum about it, downloaded a recommended driver....and so far can't replicate the problem!  edited title to [solved] for now....and thanks again!!!

Oh!  Nevermind.  Happy day!  

[glynor]

The Asus drivers have been, and still are flaky (in general).

That's for sure.  I had long-considered an ASUS sound card.  They often get glowing reviews in the tech press.

But if you troll forums, the driver situation is quite-obviously a real horrorshow.  I've stayed far, far away because of exactly that.  I've lived through enough cruddy drivers from Creative Labs in my life to never want to go down that road again.

[ferday]

I have an Asus Essence ST and can reproduce your issue, and possibly can shed some light on it (as I've been troubleshooting it myself over the past few days).

The Asus drivers have been, and still are flaky (in general).  They seem to be especially flaky when interacting with the new WDM driver.  

If I have the system default set to the WDM driver *and* something is playing to the ST in JRiver in an exclusive mode (WASAPI exclusive or ASIO): a long system sound or web sound will often either crash JRiver (CTD) or hang it.  If I set the windows default to something other than the WDM driver *and* other than the Asus, there are no problems of any kind.

I have separate zones for WDM audio and regular audio, so when the WDM kicks in it "simulates" two different sources trying to take control of the card.  If both zones are set to ASIO, JRiver crashes to desktop about 60% of the time.  If one zone is set to ASIO and the other to WASAPI I get hangs or static.

Basically the Asus PC soundcard drivers are turbo flaky, I get no behavior like this with any other device (including an Asus external sound device) even with the same computer.  

So my advice:  try setting the windows system default to something other than the WDM driver *and* other the Asus ST (i.e. the mobo soundcard or a digital output) and see if the problem persists.  If not, then we have the same problem (Asus has flaky drivers). If so, we have a different problem.

Currently, FWIW the most "stable" settings I've found are using ASIO for the main JRiver playback zone and WASAPI non-exclusive for the WDM zone.  With those settings, I don't seem to get crashes or very many hangs, just the occasional static when the WDM tries to horn in on playback already in progress.  I had initially planned to submit a JRiver bug report, until I did some additional testing and realized it was just Asus being Asus.

EDIT: ninja'd!  Hopefully the new drivers workout in the long run (I'm on the latest and still having these issues).  I'll leave my post above, in case you still have problems in the future.

appreciate it mwillems!

i always set the windows default to a digital output, and i do have a separate zone for the new WDM.  

currently i'm using the ASUS with ASIO and it's working without issue (at least i can't replicate) and with the WASAPI on the ASUS trying to replicate it will produce a pause, but unlike before it doesn't freeze playback, just pauses it for a moment then it comes back

this is a victory, thanks guys

 

[mwillems]

That's for sure.  I had long-considered an ASUS sound card.  They often get glowing reviews in the tech press.

But if you troll forums, the driver situation is quite-obviously a real horrorshow.  I've stayed far, far away because of exactly that.  I've lived through enough cruddy drivers from Creative Labs in my life to never want to go down that road again.

I've been using the new(ish) Asus U7 (it's a USB card) for some grab and go activities, and the drivers for that thing are 10x better than any drivers I've used for the two or three internal Asus cards I've owned over the years.  The U7's a little bit weird as a piece of hardware (Linux configuration was... interesting), but the windows drivers are actually pretty good as these things go.  In terms of stability and predictability, I'd probably rate the U7 drivers as the second-best set of proprietary soundcard drivers I've ever used (driverless UAC-type DACs are typically very stable, but that's cheating   )

It's just a shame Asus can't seem to get their act together for the internal cards.

this is a victory, thanks guys

 

Great news!

[glynor]

Yep.  I already have a Focusrite Scarlett though, which is rock-solid, so I'm set there.  The purposes for which I use my USB audio devices don't require surround (mostly DJ gigs on my laptop).

I'd be interested in a PCIe sound card to get one box I have off of my craptastic Realtek onboard analog outs, but I think my money might, in the end, be better spent just getting a HDMI-capable receiver and calling it done.

[mwillems]

Yep.  I already have a Focusrite Scarlett though, which is rock-solid, so I'm set there.  The purposes for which I use my USB audio devices don't require surround (mostly DJ gigs on my laptop).

Yeah, obviously I'm running the Steinberg in my signature on my production system (which has never given me a moment's trouble).  I just grabbed the Asus because I wanted something small with a bunch of channels out to do speaker testing/measurement on the go (which requires some extra channels sometimes).  

I'd be interested in a PCIe sound card to get one box I have off of my craptastic Realtek onboard analog outs, but I think my money might, in the end, be better spent just getting a HDMI-capable receiver and calling it done.

Yeah I wish I could recommend one.  The Asus DX I had was useable, but the drivers were still iffy.  And the competition isn't much better (I had an M-Audio PCI that had literally the worst drivers I've ever used).  At this point I just use cheapy externals when I want to avoid onboard audio (like some of the lower end Fiio products which are driverless).  

[6233638]

That's for sure.  I had long-considered an ASUS sound card.  They often get glowing reviews in the tech press.

But if you troll forums, the driver situation is quite-obviously a real horrorshow.  I've stayed far, far away because of exactly that.  I've lived through enough cruddy drivers from Creative Labs in my life to never want to go down that road again.

I was shocked recently when I needed a PCIe soundcard, and after testing a few, ended up keeping the Creative card. (a Sound Blaster Z)
 
ASUS's drivers (or the Unixonar drivers) were awful in comparison. Sure, Creative's UI is stuck in the '90s but the card actually works as expected and the drivers seem well optimized. (no DPC latency problems like the ASUS drivers)
 
 
For what it's worth, the main reason I ended up with a PCIe card is because I needed something that would do a good job creating a headphone-specific 5.1 downmix. JRSS might be fine for speakers, but there are much better options out there for headphones.
 
I can't comment on the quality of its analog outputs though, I just feed the optical output into my DAC.

[ferday]

I only bought the STX because I needed multi-outputs and I found one pretty cheap, and the headphone amp function was nice

The analog outs sound great and I haven't had a whole bunch of issues with drivers (unlike my Asus Radeon cards)

Glynor, I can't recommend enough a nice hdmi AVR, combined with JRiver it's a potent all-in solution

[glynor]

Glynor, I can't recommend enough a nice hdmi AVR, combined with JRiver it's a potent all-in solution

Oh, I have two of them.  Just one box is going to a (quite nice) Yamaha with discreet 5.1 analog ins...  It works great.  The Realtek drivers I have (and never touch) work perfectly.  They're just noisy.  Of course, the box is a server with a crapton of fans and I'm not going to get good "quality" in this room no matter what.  So... 

I have my old Denon AVR-591 sitting on a shelf.  The HDMI inputs on it died, after the amp in it was already repaired once, but before it did, it was a wonderful HDMI-equipped AVR.  Maybe I'll just take that to a local shop and get a quote to have it repaired.  There are bound to be a bunch of parts for these things around now, since it is a few years old (and now are all past the warranty dates).

Dunno.  The working is the enemy of the good. 

[glynor]

I was shocked recently when I needed a PCIe soundcard, and after testing a few, ended up keeping the Creative card. (a Sound Blaster Z)
 
ASUS's drivers (or the Unixonar drivers) were awful in comparison. Sure, Creative's UI is stuck in the '90s but the card actually works as expected and the drivers seem well optimized. (no DPC latency problems like the ASUS drivers)

Yeah, I know they're better now.  I had an old Soundblaster Audigy 2 though and the drivers on that bad-boy were a real horrorshow (and not of the nadsat variety).

Left a bad taste.  No Creative Labs here since then.  Probably stupid, and I'd probably reconsider, but... Why put money into it?  I'd rather just go HDMI and be done.

[6233638]

Oh I completely understand why you would avoid them based on past experiences.
I just bought one of each card with different headphone solutions (Dolby Headphone, THX/SBX Pro Studio, CMSS-3D, DTS Surround Sensation etc.) and the Sound Blaster Z won out based on both how it sounded, and how well the card/drivers worked.
 
The issue with HDMI is that you're tying your audio outputs to your video outputs, and AVRs are physically huge.
 
Having to upgrade an AVR because you changed something about your video setup, when it's perfectly fine as far as audio is concerned, sucks. (upgrade for 24Hz support, then 3D, then 4K etc.)