Topic: Forced subtitles (Read 18609 times)

Z0001 · « **on:** December 18, 2014, 02:09:21 pm »

Hi. I'm finding forced subtitles unreliable on makemkv rips. I do select the full English subtitle and the forced subtitle components, but quite frequently (certainly I notice this on blu ray rips) the forced subtitle is not played eg in a foreign language segment of an English language film the English subtitles in hat scene don't appear, although they are an intended part of the film.

Is there an option I've missed maybe, or is it that they are just unreliable on MKV rips?

Cheers
Z

BartMan01 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2014, 02:12:20 pm »

Here is a good reference:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1176923-movies-forced-subtitles.html

Not all BluRays handle this the same way. In some cases a specific subtitle track needs to be manually selected or a .srt file used.

astromo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2014, 03:15:54 pm »

For mkv files, mkvtoolnix is a good, free tool to manipulate audio, subtitles and chapters.

It might help you out. I use it on a regular basis.

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2014, 03:54:01 pm »

I found it to be more reliable to rip my BDs to m2ts format. I use (free) ClownBD by Slysoft (makers of ANYDVD HD).
As far as I know all of the forced subtitles are working for me. I only use MakeMKV for DVD rips now.

Also see this post about mkv subtitle issues with some players: http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8594

Hendrik · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2014, 05:47:16 am »

Playing plain m2ts or ripping to MKV have the same problems really. Sometimes you cannot auto-detect which subtitle stream has forced subs in it, and you need to manually pick the right stream yourself, or you get none.

I prefer to deal with this once at ripping time using MakeMKV, even if that means I need to preview a few scenes to makes sure the right subtitles are selected, which allows flawless playback later on without having to worry about it.

Z0001 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2015, 06:29:35 pm »

Revisiting this one.

So, I have already ripped with makemkv all English stream, audio and subtitles including forced.

1. So how do I get MC to recognize the forced subtitles, even if I preview and ensure its the only selected forced track - is it the case that MC will select at least one forced track and our issue is we cannot auto control what MC selects?

2. Can I convert an mkv rip to m2ts and get more reliable forced subtitles?

There has to be a better answer to this since its not obvious during playback whether there should be a forced track showing text - we don't know what we don't know, unless i preview all my rips, select the track and delete all others (assuming 1 holds true).

Cheers
Z

JustinChase · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2015, 09:16:55 pm »

The problem lies in the fact that some releases mark forced sections within the 'regular' subtitle stream (meaning only parts of the subtiles are marked as forced, and the rest are not marked). This method is reliably picked up by MC (via built-in LAV filters), and you just magically get forced subtitles without any input/work on your part.

The other method is an actual, separate subtitle stream which only shows the forced subtitles. In this case, you need to manually select this forced track to get them. In this case, while ripping the disc (using makeMKV is my preferred method), or even while remuxing the video using mkvToolNix, you can set the tag for these subtitles as "Forced" in the file itself. If you do this, it will also get reliably picked up by MC, and you'll magically get only forced subtitles by default during playback. however, this method requires user input at the time of ripping to get the forced stream marked properly.

Sadly, I'm unaware of any other method to do this for us "automatically".

Z0001 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2015, 03:30:28 am »

So in this manual method - are you saying check all the subtitle boxes in makemkv? and then during playback in MC, looking at Subtitles in the on screen menu and testing each one to see if if gives the desired outcome?

or are you saying doing something else in makemkv to set the subtitle as "Forced" - i cant see this option in makemkv.

many thanks!
Z

Z0001 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2015, 03:37:01 am »

... so in makemkv I can see that there is a "d" against one of the forced subtitle tracks, but there are two such forced English subtitle tracks - how does one play back using just one of the tracks, to test whether its the correct default? Assuming I'm interpreting this right

JustinChase · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2015, 05:54:01 am »

I think the "d" in makeMKV is for default, but I'm not certain. I did a quick search for a list of these flags to see what the "forced" flag should be, but found nothing. I suspect "f" is the correct flag, but I'm not sure.

If you have to streams selected as default, I'm guessing MC will just pick the first one, which might not be the actual forced stream you want.

Personally, I use mkvtoolnix (run mkvmergeGUI) on the finished mkv to quickly change/update the flags on my mkv files. Once opened, click file... Header editor... then pick your mkv file. it will read the file and show all the header information for all streams. go to the stream you believe to be the forced subtitles, go to the forced flag field, enable, then set to yes, save and it will update the flag in the mkv in a couple seconds.

play this file in MC to confirm it's working; done.

astromo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2015, 05:57:14 pm »

Quote from: JustinChase on June 16, 2015, 05:54:01 am

I think the "d" in makeMKV is for default, but I'm not certain. I did a quick search for a list of these flags to see what the "forced" flag should be, but found nothing. I suspect "f" is the correct flag, but I'm not sure.

If you have to streams selected as default, I'm guessing MC will just pick the first one, which might not be the actual forced stream you want.

Personally, I use mkvtoolnix (run mkvmergeGUI) on the finished mkv to quickly change/update the flags on my mkv files. Once opened, click file... Header editor... then pick your mkv file. it will read the file and show all the header information for all streams. go to the stream you believe to be the forced subtitles, go to the forced flag field, enable, then set to yes, save and it will update the flag in the mkv in a couple seconds.

play this file in MC to confirm it's working; done.

From this:
http://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/10
it appears to only be a check box that the user needs to play with.

I'm with you for putting mkvtoolnix to work (as I mentioned above). Very handy and delivers a positive result.

Z0001 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2015, 09:21:26 pm »

Is there any way to actually see the forced subtitle text in a text file, so that it can be easily checked rather than previewing the movie and quite likely missing the scene with forced subtitles?

Cheers
Z

JustinChase · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2015, 11:35:48 pm »

not that I'm aware of. I usually just play the movie, switch the subtitle tracks, and if I see someone talking, and no subtitles, I assume that's the forced track

RoderickGI · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2015, 12:24:53 am »

You could just extract all subtitles streams from the MKV to a temporary location, and take a look at them. Try using MKVExtract.

The smallest will probably be the forced subtitles. If not, the contents should give you enough hints as to which is forced. At worst you will be able to look at start and finish time codes for the subtitles, and view the original video in MC at those points to see if forced subtitles show. If not, try the next subtitle stream, then next, etc.

Stacks of information out there: https://www.google.com.au/#q=how+to+view+subtitles+in+mkv+files

Z0001 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2015, 01:49:40 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on June 16, 2015, 11:35:48 pm

not that I'm aware of. I usually just play the movie, switch the subtitle tracks, and if I see someone talking, and no subtitles, I assume that's the forced track

I've had several occasions where there is someone talking a foreign language in an English language movie and no subtitles come up so either, 1) there are no forced subtitles in that movie or 2) the forced subtitle track is not being forced, and there's no way to know unless you can extract the forced subtitle text, or the player implements the forced track, such as a separates disc player does. There seems to be a lot of discussion on various forums about it, but in all honesty I've struggled to date in understanding people's suggested workarounds!

This has really escalated for me as I am scaling back my library by deleting iso files and just keeping the mkv as I'm running out of disc space, enclosures and $$$!

Will keep trying!
Z

JustinChase · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2015, 07:02:44 am »

if there are any forced subtitles in 'any' subtitle stream, MC should automatically play them. In this case, the subtitles can be set to "Off", but MC will still play forced subtitles.

If you sill don't see them, they are probably not embedded, they would be a separate track. It's possible you didn't rip that track from the disk when you ripped the movie. Or you just need to pick another subtitle stream.

I've not found any way to 'automate' this process yet. it's very much trial and error still.

6233638 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2015, 08:44:14 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on June 17, 2015, 07:02:44 am

if there are any forced subtitles in 'any' subtitle stream, MC should automatically play them. In this case, the subtitles can be set to "Off", but MC will still play forced subtitles.

I really wish that this behavior was changed.
Media Center should report that it's playing forced subtitles, not reporting that they are "off".

JustinChase · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2015, 09:56:50 am »

Quote from: 6233638 on June 17, 2015, 08:44:14 am

I really wish that this behavior was changed.
Media Center should report that it's playing forced subtitles, not reporting that they are "off".

I agree.

"Off" should mean "no subtitles" and "null" should go away, IMO

RoderickGI · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2015, 06:16:40 pm »

In my experience with DVD players having subtitles Off still meant that forced subtitle played. That is, after all, sort of the definition of "Forced" subtitles. You weren't supposed to be able to turned them off, since you wouldn't know if they were needed or not.

Of course, that was in an era when DVDs were properly authored for each zone, and so which language should be forced and so on was easier to manage.

The point is, the terminology is consistent with past DVD players.

ldoodle · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2015, 07:45:15 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on June 16, 2015, 11:35:48 pm

not that I'm aware of. I usually just play the movie, switch the subtitle tracks, and if I see someone talking, and no subtitles, I assume that's the forced track

This highlights a fundamental flaw in ripping your content. Really, some of the things people go through... too much time on their hands.

It should be:

Put disc in drive
Rip disc to hard drive (choosing audio tracks and required subs)
Copy rip to location
Play back film

Absolutely not:

Put disc in drive
Rip disc to hard drive (choosing audio tracks and required subs)
Test playback of film (what if you don't know the film - test watch it all the way through? Come on....!)
Hack about with resulting file, setting default and forced flags for subs, or even re-ordering them
Write out new file
Copy rip to location
Play back film

It's stupid. 500 years ago maybe - 21st Century absolutely not! MakeMKV (and most likely others) can't even do forced subs on DVDs - go to do that manually.

Something as simple as subtitles should not take a NASA engineer and 5 hours to do.

Hendrik · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:15:45 am »

Disc formats are not meant to be easily rippable, which is why a full automation isn't easy.

You could try to automatize it further but it would be very slow as it would need to scan the entire movie to find more subtitle info, and even then its more a heuristic instead of a proper detection , which is probably why no one did it yet.

ldoodle · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:14:43 am »

I'm half wondering if as part of Get TV and Movie info, another option is available: Include Subtitles, with the various available options (Forced only, English, French etc.).

I'd engage the TheTVDb and TheMovieDb about setting something like this up.

That would give JRiver an unbelievably massive advantage in the Media Player market, I reckon. It would just copy them down as an SRT file the same way it does artwork.

Is this technically possible?

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:15:14 am »

I'll add that copying/ripping disks is not something the manufacturers/producers want you to do - so they're not making it easy. Actually, they are making it as hard as they can.

ldoodle · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:38:03 am »

It's funny because you're allowed 1 backup copy but not allowed to break encryption.

Go figure....

Hendrik · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:44:36 am »

Using a subtitle database would be possible, and there are a few out there but they mostly all suck.

Usually stuff isn't indexed properly and different timings for different editions sometimes screw everything over, plus forced isn't very easy to spot on there either.

Not sure about the legality of transcribing a movie and hosting the subs, maybe that's why such pages all look shady

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:00:08 pm »

My solution to this problem?

Quote from: ldoodle on June 18, 2015, 07:45:15 am

This highlights a fundamental flaw in ripping your content. Really, some of the things people go through... too much time on their hands.

I just always rip all the subtitles. They're tiny anyway. Who cares?

If the default one isn't automatically right, when I realize it while watching, I just flip through the ones included until I find one that works. Sure, I don't need the Czech translation, but it doesn't hurt anything to have it. And it saves a ton of time and thought when ripping. I check the select-all box for all subs in MakeMKV. Done.

100 MB or so of disk space well spent to save my brain time.

ldoodle · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2015, 03:47:45 am »

Quote from: Hendrik on June 18, 2015, 10:44:36 am

Using a subtitle database would be possible, and there are a few out there but they mostly all suck.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting using something already out there, but implementing something "ourselves" (the JRiver community submit the .srt files) - whether that be "our" own system/database or bolting something onto the 2 existing providers I mentioned, but locked to the JRiver platform (if possible)

ldoodle · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2015, 03:53:05 am »

Quote from: glynor on June 18, 2015, 11:00:08 pm

I just always rip all the subtitles. They're tiny anyway. Who cares?

The problem is, MakeMKV (and probably most/all others) absolutely truly suck at this with DVDs - there's no way to get just the 'forced' subs. Maybe it's the DVD format to blame, but my collection is probably 80:20 DVD:Blu, so it's quite important for me.

So I end up ripping the content with no subs at all then scouring the 'net for the .srt files; people have ripped Blu's and exported the subs from the MKV to .srt using mkvextract or whatever it is they use. I then drop the .srt file in to a 'Subs' folder with the MKV file. At least this way If I'm watching something and realise I'm missing subs, I can just drop the .srt file with the MKV and not worry about having to re-author the MKV with subs embedded. This works with VLC too for laptop playback.

It would be good if JRiver then recognised the .srt file I have and auto-uploaded it to "somewhere" others can pull it down as part of Get Movie and TV Info.

glynor · « **Reply #28 on:** June 19, 2015, 03:26:09 pm »

Quote from: ldoodle on June 19, 2015, 03:53:05 am

The problem is, MakeMKV (and probably most/all others) absolutely truly suck at this with DVDs - there's no way to get just the 'forced' subs.

That's my point. I rip them all. Not just forced. Not just anything. If it is a subtitle, and it is on the disc, I rip it.

I don't rip any DVDs, though. I have zero interest in anything standard def. That's not worth my time.

JustinChase · « **Reply #29 on:** June 19, 2015, 05:33:57 pm »

Quote from: glynor on June 18, 2015, 11:00:08 pm

My solution to this problem?

I just always rip all the subtitles. They're tiny anyway. Who cares?

If the default one isn't automatically right, when I realize it while watching, I just flip through the ones included until I find one that works. Sure, I don't need the Czech translation, but it doesn't hurt anything to have it. And it saves a ton of time and thought when ripping. I check the select-all box for all subs in MakeMKV. Done.

100 MB or so of disk space well spent to save my brain time.

I have a custom rule in makeMKV which only rips the audio and subtitle tracks I want (Spanish and English), with it automatically selecting the HD audio tracks, and unselecting all other audio tracks. I also end up with some subtitles I may not need, but, like you, I get all English subtitles, including any forced tracks.

If/when I'm bored I'll go back and edit the mkv headers (with mkvtoolnix) to change any subtitles to forced; if necessary.

**Open MakeMKV...
View...
Preferences...
General Tab...
Check 'Expert Mode'...
Select Advanced Tab...
Edit "Default Selection Rule"...

Here's mine...

-sel:all,+sel:audio&(eng|spa),-sel:(havemulti|havelossless),-sel:mvcvideo,+sel:subtitle&(eng|spa),-sel:subtitle&(forced),-sel:special,=100:all,-10:eng

6233638 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 19, 2015, 05:40:11 pm »

I do something similar, but MakeMKV doesn't always catch forced subtitles on DVDs if they're coded a certain way it seems.
Same issue with Blu-rays too.

ldoodle · « **Reply #31 on:** June 23, 2015, 05:47:52 am »

Quote from: 6233638 on June 19, 2015, 05:40:11 pm

I do something similar, but MakeMKV doesn't always catch forced subtitles on DVDs if they're coded a certain way it seems.
Same issue with Blu-rays too.

That's the thing - it's never consistent.

Plus some DVDs (I don't think Blu's ever have) used burnt in subtitles.

ldoodle · « **Reply #32 on:** June 23, 2015, 07:41:31 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on June 19, 2015, 05:33:57 pm

-sel:all,+sel:audio&(eng|spa),-sel:(havemulti|havelossless),-sel:mvcvideo,+sel:subtitle&(eng|spa),-sel:subtitle&(forced),-sel:special,=100:all,-10:eng

How does the -sel:subtitle&(forced) bit work for DVDs. All of the DVDs I've ripped so far do not have a separate listing for Forced subs, like Blu's do!

Also, can you help me create a selection rule that selects only the highest quality audio track and no subs. The default rule only selects the lossy audio track and not the HD audio track for Blu's:

-sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang|single),-sel:(havemulti|havecore),-sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang

Based on what you posted, I'm guessing swapping out 'havecore' with 'havelossles' will do the audio track, but what happens if it's a DVD where HD audio is not available - does it select the next highest track, i.e. DD/DTS 5.1 in place of 2.0 stereo?

JustinChase · « **Reply #33 on:** June 23, 2015, 07:48:44 am »

Quote from: ldoodle on June 23, 2015, 07:41:31 am

How does the -sel:subtitle&(forced) bit work for DVDs. All of the DVDs I've ripped so far do not have a separate listing for Forced subs, like Blu's do!

Also, can you help me create a selection rule that selects only the highest quality audio track and no subs. The default rule only selects the lossy audio track and not the HD audio track for Blu's:

-sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang|single),-sel:(havemulti|havecore),-sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang

Based on what you posted, I'm guessing swapping out 'havecore' with 'havelossles' will do the audio track, but what happens if it's a DVD where HD audio is not available - does it select the next highest track, i.e. DD/DTS 5.1 in place of 2.0 stereo?

I think it works okay for DVD's also, but it's been a while since I've ripped one; so can't say for sure.

It actually unselects the (forced) subtitles, since that option in MakeMKV is only used to try to extract the forced parts of a regular subtitle into a new subtitle track. I (you?) don't need this, since MC will (with the help of LAV) read the forced flag from the regular subtitle anyway, so there's no point in having a separate forced track, IMO.

The expression I posted does rip the HD Audio only. if there is no HD audio (only saw this a couple of times, where it just had raw audio), it will not select any audio. I don't have any 'fallback' for next best audio.

I always expand the movie to confirm what audio and subs it will rip before hitting the "go" button.

The expression above will probably work for you if you just remove the "spa" bits, to take out the Spanish selection. Otherwise I think it will do just what you want (other than forced on DVD; not sure about that).

ldoodle · « **Reply #34 on:** June 23, 2015, 07:56:28 am »

Quote from: JustinChase on June 23, 2015, 07:48:44 am

I (you?) don't need this, since MC will (with the help of LAV) read the forced flag from the regular subtitle anyway, so there's no point in having a separate forced track, IMO.

Can you explain more on this? My DVD of Breaking Bad (Region 2 UK) doesn't list a forced sub track in MakeMKV - only the full tracks. When I play back in MC I either get no subs at all (even for foreign dialogue) or all subs including English dialogue if I put subs on.

I've not experienced MC being able to display only the forced bits of a full subtitle track.

JustinChase · « **Reply #35 on:** June 23, 2015, 08:09:40 am »

I'm not sure, as I don't have that DVD to test, but it sounds like makemkv isn't seeing a separate forced subtitle track.

I would process it with makemkv, and select any/all subtitle tracks it finds, include them all in the rip, then test again to see which track, if any is the forced track. If you figure out which one it is, you can use mkvtoolnix to update the header to mark it as forced for future use

I don't remember any foreign speaking in breaking bad season 2, so maybe it just not supposed to be translated.

mwillems · « **Reply #36 on:** June 23, 2015, 10:28:01 am »

ldoodle, didn't you mention in your other thread that the Breaking Bad disc doesn't display forced subs in a hardware player? If I'm remembering that right, then there are no forced subs on the disc to be had, and you'll need to acquire them yourself. If a hardware player can't do it, it means the disk was authored without forced subs at all (for whatever reason).

Also many DVDs have separate subtitle tracks for forced subs, they're just not flagged in a way that makes them show up in makemkv labelled "forced." If you see multiple (more than one or two) English subtitle tracks, there's a good chance that one of those is where the forced subs are. That's why glynor's advice about taking all the subtitle tracks is a good one. Then you can easily figure out which one is the forced sub track once you've got the rip.

It's definitely not the case that "most" DVDs don't have forced subs somewhere; I'd say 70 to 80% of the DVD discs with foreign dialog I've interacted with have some kind of retrievable forced subtitle track on the disc. They're just usually in an unlabelled "extra" english subtitle track (or baked into the image).

ldoodle · « **Reply #37 on:** June 24, 2015, 06:07:29 am »

Yeah Breaking Bad was a bad example. I'll try with Lord of the Rings (the Elvish spoken bits) and come back.

In the meantime, when using external .srt files how do I get Theater View to "force" these on by default if they exist. In the 2 MKV's I've watched they've been off by default and I've had to use the OSD to enable them.

JustinChase · « **Reply #38 on:** June 24, 2015, 07:03:52 am »

I don't know how to change the headers on srt files, but if you can mark them as forced, that should do it. You might need to change the name and add forced in the name of the file. Maybe some trial and error can get you there, or perhaps someone from JRiver will chime in.

Have fun

ldoodle · « **Reply #39 on:** June 24, 2015, 03:23:03 pm »

OK, a better example: Apocalypto DVD

The first text in the subtitle is:

1
00:00:30,572 --> 00:00:38,455
"A great civilization is not conquered from without
until it has destroyed itself from within."
W. Durant

But this is actually burned into the video so it's not needed and looks stupid. There has to be a better way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I delete this, will there be any problems with rest of the srt file as the first one will start with number 2, or do I need to edit the whole file to decrement each one!!

ferday · « **Reply #40 on:** June 24, 2015, 04:07:10 pm »

Why not leave the number and the timing but erase the text

astromo · « **Reply #41 on:** June 24, 2015, 04:27:28 pm »

Quote from: ldoodle on June 24, 2015, 06:07:29 am

Yeah Breaking Bad was a bad example. I'll try with Lord of the Rings (the Elvish spoken bits) and come back.

In the meantime, when using external .srt files how do I get Theater View to "force" these on by default if they exist. In the 2 MKV's I've watched they've been off by default and I've had to use the OSD to enable them.

Refer above to multiple comments around using a remuxing tool (e.g. mkvtoolnix) to flick the subtitles on switch.

astromo · « **Reply #42 on:** June 24, 2015, 04:29:51 pm »

Quote from: ldoodle on June 24, 2015, 03:23:03 pm

OK, a better example: Apocalypto DVD

The first text in the subtitle is:

1
00:00:30,572 --> 00:00:38,455
"A great civilization is not conquered from without
until it has destroyed itself from within."
W. Durant

But this is actually burned into the video so it's not needed and looks stupid. There has to be a better way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I delete this, will there be any problems with rest of the srt file as the first one will start with number 2, or do I need to edit the whole file to decrement each one!!

No ... just delete the whole entry. From experience that I've had, video replay has no problem picking up SRT files with "gaps" in the entry numbers. You could copy an example file and play with it and you'll see what I mean. If it goes wrong, revert to the source file.

ldoodle · « **Reply #43 on:** June 24, 2015, 04:31:07 pm »

Sorry, but ripping to MKV and processing (remuxing) after the fact is not a "better" way. It's actually ridiculous.

Seriously considering binning my htpc right now....

JustinChase · « **Reply #44 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:11:43 pm »

Again, just rip ALL subtitles, then pick thru them upon playback.

mwillems · « **Reply #45 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:15:17 pm »

Quote from: ldoodle on June 24, 2015, 04:31:07 pm

Sorry, but ripping to MKV and processing (remuxing) after the fact is not a "better" way. It's actually ridiculous.

Seriously considering binning my htpc right now....

You've already seen that some of these issues are the exact same in hardware players. In this case you'll probably see the exact same thing if the disc has those subs flagged as forced (I routinely see forced subtitles for on screen quotes, it doesn't bug me, but it's not unusual). The difference in using an HTPC is that you can actually fix things like this if you take the time. Ripping to mkv and remuxing may seem ridiculous, but it's the only available solution to many of these problems (with or without an HTPC). And as noted, you may not even need to remux it.

You can bin your HTPC if you want, but you'll find that many discs will still not work the way you want with hardware players, but now you can't actually fix the issues! The reason I switched to an HTPC for video playback was how tired I'd gotten of badly authored discs that didn't work quite right with hardware players (subtitle issues, timing mismatches, etc.).

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

glynor · « **Reply #46 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:34:18 pm »

Quote from: ldoodle on June 24, 2015, 04:31:07 pm

Sorry, but ripping to MKV and processing (remuxing) after the fact is not a "better" way. It's actually ridiculous.

I don't understand why you don't want to do this, but it is fine.

MC supports sidecar subtitles quite well. The naming rules are covered fairly well in the Subtitle article on the wiki. There are a few additions that should be made to that:

* Sidecar subtitles will have a higher priority if the name of the sidecar exactly matches the name of the file.
* Subtitle files that have no language identifier at all (where the language identifier is the * in [Name]*.extension is empty) are automatically selected if there are no forced subtitles (and one isn't manually selected).

As it mentions in the wiki (and mwillems and others have explained above), authoring is all over the place, so there is no consistent way for MC to always detect forced subtitles. It just isn't possible because there are a million monkeys out there making discs in a million ways.

However, MC does remember which subtitles were selected from play to play on a per-file basis. That's why I just rip all subtitles. Because if I find that for one particular movie, some jerk who was authoring the disc not only didn't mark the subtitles I needed forced properly, but actually marked the English Forced subtitles as Ukranian, it doesn't matter. I have them all. You pick them once (via the OSD or whatever means you prefer) when you realize they're not "right", and then that file is fixed forever.

So, I'm not sure what is difficult about this?

rec head · « **Reply #47 on:** June 25, 2015, 07:57:35 am »

Yeah, If MC didn't remember which you selected this would be a mess but it does. Once I realize I'm missing the forced subtitles I just right click on the screen and start trying the different selections until I get the right ones. Then I never think about it again. It sucks to do in the middle of watching something but it doesn't take that long.

glynor · « **Reply #48 on:** June 25, 2015, 06:07:01 pm »

Right. And if you are prepping it, you can make your own "forced" subtitles with sidecars by following either of these filenaming rules:

Quote from: glynor on June 24, 2015, 05:34:18 pm

* Sidecar subtitles will have a higher priority if the name of the sidecar exactly matches the name of the file.
* Subtitle files that have no language identifier at all (where the language identifier is the * in [Name]*.extension is empty) are automatically selected if there are no forced subtitles (and one isn't manually selected).

astromo · « **Reply #49 on:** June 26, 2015, 03:32:13 am »

Quote from: glynor on June 25, 2015, 06:07:01 pm

Right. And if you are prepping it, you can make your own "forced" subtitles with sidecars by following either of these filenaming rules:

Noted. Thanks for that.

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Author Topic: Forced subtitles (Read 18609 times)